which ballhead m10 or m20

[drjiveturkey]

After much research I've decided to go with a Markin Ball head b/c of weight & capacity. $40 difference in cost

My 2 choices are:

The M10 ~1lb with max load of 90lbs & 175lbs torque
The M20 ~1.25 lbs with max load of 100lbs & 190lbs torque

Cost is less of a factor, but do you think 1/4 lbs difference in weigh is a bigger advantage than the extra 10lb capacity?

My Gear
Gitzo 3530S
Rebel XT
1d mk2n
400 2.8IS
70-200 2.8

I was thinking about getting a gimbal because of the 400 2.8 but with the max loads of these heads, maybe a sidekick will do the trick. Plus the benifits of using the ballhead with my lighter equipment.

[RichNY]

Skip a few lunches, lose 1/4lb, and go with the larger ballhead.

[JohnJ80]

The M20 was designed for the Gitzo 3 series. Use that one and not the M10.

The 4 ozs is not going to matter either way. The M10 will must be too small (physically) and won't look right. I'm not sure if larger systematic platform will interfere with the M10 pointing down or not.

J

[Cathpah]

for a 400 2.8 IS, go with the bigger ballhead

I have the m10 and would reccomend it to everyone, except those with big primes. My m10 shines with a 70-200 2.8IS and a 1d2n, but that's nothing compared to your big 400.

[RichNY]

Was the weight the deciding factor to go with a Markins over the Really Right Stuff BH-40/BH-55?

[drjiveturkey]

The M20 was designed for the Gitzo 3 series. Use that one and not the M10.

The 4 ozs is not going to matter either way. The M10 will must be too small (physically) and won't look right. I'm not sure if larger systematic platform will interfere with the M10 pointing down or not.
J

The reason I was having trouble deciding was that since I'll never have rig that's 90lbs, then the extra 10lb support of the M20 seemed to be like spitting in the ocean. Never thought about the physical size of the platform. Good thinking, thanks for the heads up.

Was the weight the deciding factor to go with a Markins over the Really Right Stuff BH-40/BH-55?

I was looking between the Markins, BH-55 & Acra-swiss z1 SP.
My criteras were:
1. Quality of build & Strength-being able to hold my gear safely without creeping or worrying about floppings. A full gimbal or sidekick is down the line for the 400, but I still need the ball head for everything else.
2. Quality of operations (smoothness, ergonomics etc)
3. Budget -- not an issue as long as I knew money was going toward a better ballhead.
4. Weight--1 lbs or 2 lb ball head is not going to break me since I'm lugging heavy equipment anyways, but lighter is better as long as they can do the same thing.

After reading reviews it came down to the Markins & RRS BH55. IMO weight seemed to be the only difference. Everything else seem on par.

[JohnJ80]

I'm a RRS guy all the way. However, with the new Gitzo System 3 stuff and its amazing strength at such very light weights, I just could not put a BH55 on top of that at almost twice the weight of the M20 - almost a full pound difference! If I'm going to pay for light weight, then I would be nuts to give it all back with the overweight ballhead, IMO. I think you will see all the ballhead guys lightening up their products because of these new light tripods - and that is a good thing.

If you go to any of the top end ballheads - RRS, Markins, Kirk, Arca etc... there is very little difference in the main functionality since they all work pretty well. The difference is in the rest; weight, ergonomics etc...

In this case for these new Series 3 tripods, the Markins ballheads, which are very nice, make for one of the only choices if you are looking for light weight.

J

J

[drjiveturkey]

John good point. My tripod weighs 4lbs and it's usually recommended that it should be at2.5x heavier than the ball head. Though I never understood that concept since there was going to be so much more weight added to it (camera, lens, etc)

Looks like it's going to be the M20. Now I just need to decided if I want the Left or Right Vertical slot & whether I get the RRS lever release clamp or just the stock quick release plate.

[JohnJ80]

Oh, the last questions are easy ones.

You want the left handed controls. This allows you to keep your right hand and finger on the shutter release while you move the camera. The other way around is an ergonomic problem for sure.

You also do want the RRS QR lever clamp. Every tripod should have one. The lever clamps are, IMO, the ONLY way to go on a tripod.

Here is what all of that looks like on the 3540LS (should look similar to the top of any 3 series Systematic. I think you can also infer from this that the M10 would be a touch too small.

http://www.pbase.com/johnj80/image/79506327.jpg

J.

[drjiveturkey]

Oh, the last questions are easy ones.

You want the left handed controls. This allows you to keep your right hand and finger on the shutter release while you move the camera. The other way around is an ergonomic problem for sure.

You also do want the RRS QR lever clamp. Every tripod should have one. The lever clamps are, IMO, the ONLY way to go on a tripod.

J.

I just sent my order for the M20L with twist knob. I really like that RRS QR lever clamp, but wimberley recommends using the twist knob with the sidekick. I have a feeling I'll end up buying the RRS lever clamp down the road, cuz I really like that design.

[JohnJ80]

I think RRS has an adaptor (or Wimberley has one) that is designed to make sure the QR lever works fine. It all depends on the tolerance of the sidekick you get mated with your QR lever.

Let us know how you like your M20.

J

[Cathpah]

I just sent my order for the M20L with twist knob. I really like that RRS QR lever clamp, but wimberley recommends using the twist knob with the sidekick. I have a feeling I'll end up buying the RRS lever clamp down the road, cuz I really like that design.

yup, i switched my markins clamp out for the rrs qr clamp as well. for the times you're not using your sidekick....i'd recommend getting the qr clamp.

enjoy your sweet new ballhead setup!

[coorz]

yup, i switched my markins clamp out for the rrs qr clamp as well.

Curious to know how much force you had to apply to remove the Markins clamp. Tried it myself but it ain't coming off! Or am just a wimp :o

[drjiveturkey]

Curious to know how much force you had to apply to remove the Markins clamp. Tried it myself but it ain't coming off! Or am just a wimp :o

You're just a wimp. J/k. From what I've read, you need to apply heat to soften the bonding material that holds the screwbolt in place. I think they bond it so that you don't accidently unscrew it.

[coorz]

You're just a wimp. J/k. From what I've read, you need to apply heat to soften the bonding material that holds the screwbolt in place. I think they bond it so that you don't accidently unscrew it.

:lol:
I'll give it a go, thx!

[Tri3]

Why do you want such a beefy Markin Ball head? I just ordered the Q3 emille and IMO it is going to be plenty beefy. It is rated at 65lbs, weighs 385 grams and retails for $269. I am using it with a Gitzo GM5540 monopod. The advantage of the Q3 is it is a lot lighter than the M10 and M20 and saves you at least $60.

Based on what you currently have listed in your signature, the Q3 is all you would need. The M10 and M20 are overkill. Even with some of the Heavy setups out there, the Q3 could handle almost all of them.

[drjiveturkey]

Actually I was thinking about getting a Full Wimberly for the 400 2.8 & the Q3 everything else (the rest of my equipment is smaller than the 70-2002.8 ). I but decided on a M20 & sidekick for travel convenence. The q3 is nice, but Markins recommends it for lenses up to a 70-200 f2.8 & the M10 & M20 for larger lenses. They also recommend the M20 for 3 series tripods. The top plate of my tripod is wide, so I might have trouble using the vertical tilt function on a Q3.

At first I thought the M10 & M20 were overkill, and the extra supported weight was like spit in the ocean especially since my tripod is rated to support only 36lbs, but I think that things other than load weight was taken into consideration when Markins made their recommendations. Maybe I wasted $100, but I'm okay with eating PB&J sandwiches for lunch for the next week to make up for it!

[Tri3]

Well, since you already bought the M20, I am sure you will be quite happy with it.

Here is a rather cool article on Monopods that pushed me towards the Q3.

http://www.nikonians.org/monopods/

And another great article on Tripods

http://www.nikonians.org/tripods/

[JohnJ80]

I am, in general, disdainful of ballheads on a monopod preferring instead to use either the 3232 or nothing but the clamp on the top of the monopod.

Tri3 - you idea of using teh Q3 and the article are a good one. The only reason this works, and why it works here, is that the Markins head have the BEST friction control of any ballheads out there. I can see that using this with the friction on fairly tightly would allow easy movement of the tripod without really having to take a hand off the camera.

Any ballhead without this excellent friction control would make this a nightmare, IMO.

J

[Tri3]

John,

Yea the Q3 works like a charm. I must say that the Gitzo GM5540 is a beast of a monopod. It was costly for sure $300+, but I will never have to buy another one, that is unless a better/lighter one becomes available. :)

[Prydain]

John,

Yea the Q3 works like a charm. I must say that the Gitzo GM5540 is a beast of a monopod. It was costly for sure $300+, but I will never have to buy another one, that is unless a better/lighter one becomes available. :)

Plus, if you meet Little John on a log over a stream in Sherwood Forest you can pummel him into the water with that MP.:D

[CyberDyneSystems]

http://www.nikonians.org/monopods/


Anyone know who makes the little tilt head in the picture? Looks a lot nicer than the Manfrotto.

[Prydain]

Anyone know who makes the little tilt head in the picture? Looks a lot nicer than the Manfrotto.

The article mentions a Kirk MPA-1.

[CyberDyneSystems]

Thanks, but I don't think that's what is pictured.