Total newby

[KartGirlsMom]

I'm somewhat familiar with EOS cameras, as I have two film cameras, a Rebel and an Elan 7. I have a 17-35 wide angle lens, a 35-70(about that anyway) f4.5-6 zoom and a 70-200 f2.8 zoom plus various filters, tripods, and flashes. I have PhotoShop 7 and am fairly familiar with it.

And on the advice of this board, I am looking at a D10. I know nothing about digital. What besides the camera body do I need? I will mostly be shooting motorsports, gymnastics and volleyball. I am on a fairly limited budget, but I don't see the point in spending any money if I'm not going to get something that will do a good job for my applications. What are good publications for someone who really absolutly nothing about digital photography? Is it better to buy, as I have in the past from a local camera shop, or will I get a better deal with an online supplier? What about Ebay? Thanks so much.

[JAB1]

I would not recommend spending your money on a 10D....too much camera for right now....I would recommend the Rebel instead...still alot of camera...most of the same controls as the 10D...just not all the unnecessary bells and whistles for a newby....
There are alot of good publications for new digital photographers out there...do an internet search or go to Amazon.com and search...
You can get better prices on the Web but not as good of service as you can from your local camera store...
I advise you to shop around.....
Hope this helps....

[Scottes]

I agree with JAB1 based on your description of what you're going to be shooting. I don't think you'll miss the features of the 10D that aren't supported by the DRebel. (Hmmm, does the DRebel support 2nd-curtain flash anyone? That might be nice for you if you use it now.)

You will also need CompactFlash Cards, preferably2 512MBs IMHO, and a spare battery would also be nice.

For suppliers, www.bhphotovideo.com is generally regarded as the best around here. Not the best prices maybe, but certainly better than a local camera store and they're reliable.

Two publications: Digital Photo Pro and Photoshop User. I don't have much regard for any of the others.

[IndyJeff]

KartGirlsMom, a RebelD would be a step backwards for you, based upon what you are shooting now. The buffer on the Rebel is half that of the 10D and action shots need more than a buffer of 4. Here is a good side by side review of both models..... Rebel vs 10D (http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/canoneos300d/)

One guy at the track recently told me the Rebel is worthless for motorsorts with it's buffer. Fortunately he was borrowing it and didn't buy one.


Another alternative would be a D60 which is going to be used but will also be less expensive than a 10D.
At any rate, the D60 or the 10D will deliver for you, less FPS than what you are used to but, not difficult to operate at all.

[defordphoto]

Absolutely a 10D. You would not be happy with the Drebel at all. Keep a lookout because many people are selling their 10D's and upgrading to the 1D Mark II. You should be able to find some good deals out there.

[blackviolet]

...(Hmmm, does the DRebel support 2nd-curtain flash anyone? That might be nice for you if you use it now.)...

fwiw: no, the 300d/drebel does not itself support 2nd curtain - even with the russian firmware. however, you can set this within most decent external flash units themselves if it's a requirement.

my $.02: if you are shooting a lot of sports, the buffer may be a bit small for you. i have both the 10d and the 300d (as a backup or for the wife). on the 300d using a fast card (like an ultra ii, etc.), you can burst 4 shots @ ~2 1/2 fps and then continue to shoot every 1 1/2 to 2 seconds, once you get the timing right. on the 10d, i've found that you can burst 9 shots at around 3+ fps and then continue to shoot every 2 seconds or so (using raw - it's a bit quicker if you are shooting jpg). i once missed my youngest son scoring a try (rugby's equivalent of a touchdown) on the 300d as i was bursting through his run. fortunately he scores a lot, so i don't feel that bad...

either way you go, you will definitely be happy!!

[Belmondo]

Mom:
The answer to your entire question could be the basis for an entire book, but I can speak to a couple of points.

1. It sounds like you have good coverage in focal range---17mm to 200. Don't forget that the 10D has a sensor smaller than a standard 35mm frame, so you will have a 1.6X magnification 'effect' and and equivalent focal range of 21mm to 320mm. Not bad.

2. The biggest thing you will have to learn is how to handle and process files---work flow. If you've already been scanning film and processing it in PhotoShop, you're already well ahead of a lot of us who came into this thing completely 'cold'.

3. The 10D is very adequate for what you plan to shoot (sports--indoors mainly). Your f/2.8 lens will be very useful for that purpose, and because it is possible to push ISO speeds up quite a bit on the 10D, you should probably be able to shoot with available light. You will probably have to correct for white balance depending on what lights are being used in each particular venue. Flash usually won't be of much help at the normal distances you can expect to be shooting. (and it's often discouraged anyway).

4. If you shoot JPEG (compressed) files, you'll be able to get roughly 80 high resolution shots on a 256-meg Compact Flash (CF) card . You can judge your own needs for how much storage you're likely to need. A lot of us shoot RAW files (uncompressed) and use up storage roughly twice as fast, so we carry multiple 1-gigabyte CF cards and larger when we're shooting pictures. Some of us carry several of them---it's all based on individual needs and styles, and you will have to figure out what yours is likely to be. The good news is: prices on CF cards are dropping.

5. Local retailer vs. mail order --- This is an emotional issue with a lot of people. It depends mainly on your relationship with the local merchant and how deeply he/she is committed to high-end digital photography. There are all kinds of camera stores, and they are definitely not created equal. So once again, the answer to this question really lies within yourself. You have to weigh the value of the local shop to you as a resource for products and knowledge against the reality that you are going to do much better (as a rule) buying online or mail order. I don't particularly trust eBay. It's just too easy to get 'skinned', and I've only used it for hard to find items, and only very cautiously. I don't think I'd buy anything new that way---I only want to deal with companies that have clearly established return policies.

6. Publications. I can't help you much there. I buy everything I can find and read it. My two favorites are Popular Photography & Imaging, and Shutterbug (mainly for the ads). I also buy the Photoshop magazine---so much of digital photography is based on post processing.

You're way ahead of the curve compared to most newbies. You hve SLR experience and you own some lenses. We'll be interested in seeing what you do in the future.

Good luck

Tom

[msvadi]

I think that in terms of purchasing more equipment you don't need much after you buy the 10D. Just little stuff like compactflash cards (I recommend to get at least 2-3 512MB cards. Check amazon.com, there are always mail-in rebate offers. I just bough a sandisk 512 CF for less than $70 after mail in rebate), extra batteries (you can get generic batteries for about $10. check the ebay, I bought mine from eforcecity (or something like that, they have several ebay IDs) about 6 month ago, it works as good as Canon's), and, may be, the battery grip.

Next, learning Photoshop is essential. Photoshop is not a replacement for shooting skills and good equipment, but with the right post-processing you can really make your pictures stand out. It does not make much sense to buy basic photoshop books. You can find tons of info on the web. Start for example here:
http://luminous-landscape.com/tutorials/instant_photoshop.shtml
There some excellent more advanced books, like "Photoshop restoration and retouching" by Katrin Eismann. But even with this book I think that about 2/3 of the techniques described in it can be found on the web.

Finally, getting feedback from knowledgeable people is very important. That's why you have to come back here and post your pictures in "Share" and "Critique" forums. Also, start a gallery and request critique at photo.net. And I'm serious. I started from absolutely nothing less than a year ago. The critique from other forum members really helped me to improve.

Finally, again regarding 10D vs the DRebel. You have some lenses already. If you can afford the 10D, go with it and don't look back.

[CyberDyneSystems]

Welcome to the Forum KarGirlsMom :)

Based on your lens collection.. the 10D is the obvious choice! You will not be disatisfied!

[Kinger]

Listen I love my DRebel but I have taken some sports photography with it and I will be blunt. It sucks when you try to take shots and you get "BUSY" Don't get the DRebel get the 10D you will be happier with it.

[IndyJeff]

Listen I love my DRebel but I have taken some sports photography with it and I will be blunt. It sucks when you try to take shots and you get "BUSY" Don't get the DRebel get the 10D you will be happier with it.



'nuff said...................

[KartGirlsMom]

Thanks for your advice, you all.

So say on a race weekend I shoot 25 rolls of film. What kind of memory card will I need? Goodness, I feel so uninformed--I can delete all the bad pictures in the field right (and knowing me that's 3/4 of the ones I shoot)?--so that frees up space? I have my motorhome with the lap top with me. But that will mean I need to come in off the course to download.

[ScottJE22]

Thanks for your advice, you all.

So say on a race weekend I shoot 25 rolls of film. What kind of memory card will I need? Goodness, I feel so uninformed--I can delete all the bad pictures in the field right (and knowing me that's 3/4 of the ones I shoot)?--so that frees up space? I have my motorhome with the lap top with me. But that will mean I need to come in off the course to download.

I'm new around these parts, but not new to digital photography... I'm in the dSLR market myself right now, but I can comment on a couple of your questions...

You will only have to "dump" from your cards when they fill up. I don't have a digital SLR (yet), but let me comment on one thing: In theory, you can certainly "dump" images while you're in the field, but in practice this is not as easy as it sounds. On my G1, that means switching into "playback" mode, finding the picture, selecting "Delete," confirming the deletion, and changing back to "camera" mode.

And one other consideration -- what looks lousy on the viewfinder may turn out to be the "shot of the day" that could be easily tweaked in Photoshop...

Considering your 25 roll comment... I'm assuming you mean 25 36-exposure rolls. That's a lot of pictures! 900 to be exact! You will definitely want a couple of 512 cards to get started (even then you'll STILL be dumping your images quite frequently!). If going back to the RV to offload to the laptop is not convenient, there are other options that are "in-the-field" type solutions for dumping your images. I've never run out of space on my cards so I've never looked into these, but I'm sure someone else will chime in.

Good luck with your purchase!

[dn7elson]

So say on a race weekend I shoot 25 rolls of film. What kind of memory card will I need?

With my DRebel, shooting RAW and 400 ISO, the race track images were generally between 6.5 - 7.5 MB in size.

So, if you shot 25 rolls of 36 that would be 25x36x7.0=6.3GB
25 rolls of 24 would be 25x24x7.0=4.2GB

You will also need batteries and/or recharges to allow for this volumn of images. The DRebel gets 400-600 images per charge on its battery, depending upon lots of factors. Less if the image is viewed frequently on the LCD screen or if the flash is used.

So, I would suggest that you have a spare charged battery and 2 - 1 GB (or 4- 512MB) CF cards and download the images to your laptop at lunch or after the days activities. Charge both batteries overnight and you should be good for most situations.

Another option, if you plan to do this much, would be to get one of the portable transfer/storage devices such as the FlashTrax. It is essentially a portable hard drive that allows you do download one CF card while you are shooting with the other. The beauty of this is that you can take it anywhere with you in your bag and transfer the images even in a remote location. You will need to recharge its battery at night as well, and it is quite costly ($400+- depending upon model and HD size-comes in 20GB, 40GB and 80GB versions).

[GenEOS]

For someone familiar with EOS cameras, the 10D is the only choice...Especially with your lens collection.
Buffer on Drebel stinks. If you are shooting sports.....you will need it.

[dn7elson]

Buffer on Drebel stinks. If you are shooting sports.....you will need it.

I would suggest that it doesn't "stink" but rather is a known limiting feature of the camera. I get the "busy" indicator periodically but do not find it frequent or significantly limiting. But then again, I don't take the "uzi" approach of captures.

For professional or competitive use, I would not disagree with the 10D vs. DRebel assessment in the least. For club or other more recreational/hobby use, it is a viable alternative.

[sp00g3]

For someone familiar with EOS cameras, the 10D is the only choice...Especially with your lens collection.
Buffer on Drebel stinks. If you are shooting sports.....you will need it.

Lets clarify this...

The buffer on a 300D compared to a 10D stinks, however, I would say it does a better job than any P & S out there. Also, Its nice to take 1000 fps or whatever, but A good artist and photographer can usually get a first good shot. In high speed sports such as autoracing, then a faster camera is needed, Volleyball, well, I'm not so sure.

[CyberDyneSystems]

Thanks for your advice, you all.

So say on a race weekend I shoot 25 rolls of film. What kind of memory card will I need? Goodness, I feel so uninformed--I can delete all the bad pictures in the field right (and knowing me that's 3/4 of the ones I shoot)?--so that frees up space? I have my motorhome with the lap top with me. But that will mean I need to come in off the course to download.

Get a pair of cards then... (I allways recomend a pair) this way while one is trasferring picks to a laptop or maybe a portable strage device in the future.. you can allways keep shooting.

I would recomend a Pair of 1gig cards.. don't worry about the high speed cars with the 10D.. they barely help... but if 2 gigs of cards seems too pricey than get a pair of 512MB cards.

[timmyquest]

Get the 10D. I wasnt sure if i could justify the extra $500 because i didnt know what half the features on the 10D were. In less then 2 months i wished i had bought it. Not to say i'm not happy with the 300D...none the less, i'd be glad to trade anyone.

[IndyJeff]

Figure you will need at least 2 256mg cards. You will get about a 100 images at Large Fine on each card that way. If you have the laptop handy you can write to a CD when one card is full and be shooting the other in the meantime.

The subject of 1 GIG cards came up at the Media Center Saturday a couple of guys said they didn't have 1 gigs because you have to shoot so much to justify the cost. Downloading them takes longer and if you have a problem with the card you could easily lose a whole days worth of work. Now if you had 4 256 mg cards and would lose one, it would be a small part of the day.

Personally, I can't ever see me getting a 1gig just because it is too easy to change a card and when I start shooting the skateboard competitions if I have a 1 gig and lose info, it can be VERY costly for me. Besides, I can shoot a card and then hand it off to an assistant to be loaded onto a CD and the laptop can also be used as a viewing station for the competitors to see some examples of what we can do as far as photos go. I would much rather have 3 or 4 cards to shoot and switch to rather than one. I don't care what you are shooting, there is always a break in the action long enough to change a card.