How do I persuade Canon Service to help me?

[RichardSimon]

I am trying to stay calm....

A month or so after I purchased my 10D I realized that there was a small reddish discoloration (~20 pixels across) on some of my pictures. Eventually, I realized it was on EVERY image. Looking at the CMOS sensor cover, I could see the defect... something which has been there since day one. I SHOULD have inspected/test much more carefully when the camera was new, but hindsight is 20/20.

Getting this fixed has always been on my to do list - but when is it convenient to be without one's 10D for 2-3 weeks? I finally found a 4 week window and sent it in, now about 11 months since the initial purchase. The Canon Service center in New Jersey now has my camera. This is where the fun begins.

Canon writes back to me, declaring that the defect is "liquid damage", and not covered under warranty. They want $290 to repair the camera. I have had several conversations with service reps, but they are insisting on their policy of "liquid damage" means no warranty repair. However, this defect has been there since day 1; I can see it in the CRW files from the first day! It is most certainly a manufacturing defect of some sort. The camera has never been immersed or sprayed with liquid by me.

I have been given the number for a supervisor at Canon Service (Louis Callazo), and I will be calling him on Monday to try and persuade him that this truly should be repaired under warranty. I am more than a bit frustrated by all this - I have already had to go out and get a DRebel body to tide me over, since various events (e.g., Prom and graduation!) demanded that I have a working camera by now. So, I'm over the panic induced by the calendar, but I really would hate to shell out another $290 to repair something that truly was a defect.

Does anyone have any suggestions or further ideas on how to deal with Canon Service in New Jersey? The techs do not speak to customers. I guess I hope to work my way up the chain of authority until I get someone who has the authority to make a decision. At the lowest level, the customer reps see "liquid damage" and they enforce a policy. I need someone who can make a decision that customer satisfaction is important, and that the facts suggest that this is a warranty issue.

I am very dissapointed... this is the first bad experience I have had with Canon Service. I have sent equipment back to them three other times (1 warranty, two not) and had good service. This time around,
- I still don't have my camera after >3 weeks
- I had to buy a DRebel back up for $940
- The repair has taken too long to even get started
- I am potentially out $290 for a warranty repair!

I would much rather have purchased a 100-400 L ... :(

[robertwgross]

This isn't necessarily anybody's fault, but you seriously weakened your case by sitting on it and using it for eleven months without complaint.

If you had rattled Canon's cage within one week of having inititally received it, you would have had a much better case. Live and learn, I always say.

---Bob Gross---

[CoolToolGuy]

Perhaps sending/taking copies of the early images that show the defect will help you convince them that the problem has been there since day 1. Even though you held the camera for 11 months, the warranty is one year, and if you can show that the problem was there (dates and image numbers in the EXIF data), they may be convinced that you didn't spill coffee on it one recent morning or try using some industrial cleaning solvent to clean the sensor. :wink:

Hope this helps.

[mjordan]

Bob is right. I see so many people on different forums say they have a problem with their camera after they get it (and not all of them are Canon cameras either), but then they say they are too busy using it to send it in for repair.

It's very possible it could be what they say it is and it could have happened at anytime when it was out of the box before you got it. In a case like this, about all you can do is keep working up the chain. If you have any images that not only show the damage but also can verify the date you took them (file dates can be doctored) you might have a better chance. You could always go the legal route, but then that's probably going to cost you the price of the 100-400, 24-70, 70-200 and the MK II.

Good luck.

Mike

[Motorsports Photo]

I havent had very good luck with Canon service either.

Just tell them OK, fix it, give your credit card number and when you get the camera back dispute it.

Its the ony clout you have.

-Pete

[IndyJeff]

If the problem was there from day one, it should have been an issue with Canon on day two. Like Bob said, you weakened your case by not taking action ASAP. I'm sorry Richard, I would have to side with Canon on this one. There are certain guidelines which are indications of damage on products. Believe it or not there are people who would drop their camera in the toilet and then send it in and say "nuttin happened to it. It was just like that one day."

Where did you buy the camera? Could it be that it was returned and then repackaged for sale as new?

[Roy NN7DX]

I don't remember where I copied this from but I only have it as a notepad .txt document that I made in March '04...

I think this is a combination of a few posts:
I went through a nasty ordeal where a Canon authorized service center totally trashed my 200mm f1.8 lens. I finally got a hold of this person:

Cathleen Combs
Customer Service Support Manager
Canon U.S.A., Inc.

She was very helpful and I ended up with a new lens. I was very happy with the outcome but at first I went through a similar scenario to you. Also, Canon has a corporate policy that they call 'kyosei' and it seems that once I mentioned it, everything fell into place.

http://www.canon.com/about/philosophy/index.html
.................................................. ..........
KYOSEI - nothing like taking a high standard set by the "bug wigs" and shoving it back at them. Sometimes you need to do this to get everyone on track again. I am sure, like all corporations, someone is always trying to keep within their own budget and most managers are evaluated by this. The problem is when the budget becomes more important than customer satisfaction. I have seen this and had to work withing the "ideal" and the "bean counter" mentality. The "ideal" will always win out if the company wants to grow and be profitable. Look at the amount of bad press this situation has caused and because some Canon manager wanted to "pinch a penny".
.................................................. ........
3 entries for ''kyosei'
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
[kyosei] (n,vs) castration/enervation
[kyosei] (n) giant star/great man/big shot/(P)
[kyosei] (n) bluff............................................. ..................

Good luck...

[robekert]

I think that part of the problem that has weakened your stance is that Canon has decided that the problem is "liquid damage". They are taking the position that you have done something to damage the camera......on day one of ownership or day one hundred. Even if you provide proof of the problem with the shots from the begining, it would not seem to matter to Canon. They have termed this situation "damage" not "defect". I don't think that Canon is looking bad in this situatiion. They have made thier determination. It would probably cost you more than $290 to prove them wrong. "Principal" can be expensive and time consuming. Good luck.
Rob

[Orogeny]

$290 is a lot less than a DRebel.

Tim

[scottbergerphoto]

Here is what I would do:
1. Speak to a Customer Service Supervisor. Politely and clearly explain what you feel Canon should do to solve the problem.
2.Be prepared to provide some from of proof as to when the problem began, though this is not crucial as the camera is still under warranty.
3. If the Customer Service supervisor doesn't help you, ask to speak to her boss. If that person doesn't help you, ask for the name and address of the corporate head of Customer Service in the US. Send that person a letter Certified, Return Receipt explaining the problem and the steps you have taken to try to resolve it.
4. Always be polite, but firm in what you want them to do.

I know it sound like alot of work, but for me it usually works. Even if they think you shouldn't get it done under warranty, they may, just to make you go away.
Good Luck,
Scott

[RichardSimon]

Thanks to everyone for the helpful suggestions... I have some good news to report:

Here is the situation so far: 2 or 3 phone calls on Monday couldn't get me through to the supervisor I had been referred to :x . This morning (Tuesday) I called the customer service rep back who had referred me to her colleague. She was polite and apologetic that he was out of town, and told me that she would have the "Customer Support Supervisor" call me later in the day. I don't know why she didn't do that earlier. Sure enough, I received a phone call this afternoon. I got a more detailed explanation of what the tech had seen, and what the issue really was. She agreed right away that the main issue I was worried about was covered under warranty, and that they would repair it. The "liquid damage" was apparently some fluid of some sort that the tech noticed under the top cover of the camera which might or might not affect anything. Instead of charging me for an expensive repair that may not be needed, they will simply clean it up (should be fine), repair the other issues, and send the camera back. If I have further problems, she told me I could call her directly and she would "take care" of me as much as possible. My camera should be back to me fairly soon :lol: If I have further problems in the next few weeks, I believe what I was told, namely that Canon will either repair it at their expense, or split the cost.

The bottom line is that Canon service did come through, although it took some persistence. It was too bad that 5 days were lost sending me a letter instead of email, and another week until I could get in touch with the right person, and that person had time to really see what the problem was. The timing would never have been great, and the issue forced me to go to a backup plan. If I had to do things over again, and timing was an issue, it might have saved time if I had called them a week or so after they received the camera to see what the status was. By the time I got the request for $290, it was already too late to have the camera fixed and back in my hands in time for the pictures I was taking on Friday.

I haven't decided if I will keep the Rebel as a backup, or sell it as "nearly new, with receipt" on eBay.