Starting a magazine...

[NILOLIGIST]

I know many of you would like to be published. I have been and some of the other members have been too. Some of you have never been published and would like to. There are ways to become published. I want to get more publishings, much more and would like to help others too.

So what I suggest is: we make a list of sites, contests, magazines and anything we find that will help the people on this forum that want to become publish reach that goal.

As you all know, I always have crazy ideas so here is one of my ideas...

We could start a magazine of our own. Something like a discussion magazine and hold monthy contests and the like. We have writers here, we have plenty of photographer's here. We might not think we do but we have a wealth of resources. I know if we do consider this and it gets into the planning stages, I will approach B&H for some sponsership money. Last time I had a project, it didn't go well because I didn't know how to get the sponsership money but now I know at least how to approach people and have since forged a relationship with B&H that I know they will at least listen and consider my request.

Honestly, I think we could really start something here!! Think about it and please post your ideas. You don't have to agree but don't berate the people that do like the idea. Let's keep it nice and clean.

I recently joined / subscribed for a subscription to Nature Photographer. This magazine has a high subscription fee for the year $78 but it allows you an opportunity to submit your work for possible publication. They only publish photos of members I believe. They don't have a lot of adveristments in the back like most photography magazines. www.naturephotographermag.com check them out.

NiL,

[aeroshots2003]

Good call - I love that idea :idea:

I would contribute without hesitation. Still need someone for military aviation reports? 8)

[NILOLIGIST]

That is true. We need a lot of things but this is just to get the idea out there. We will of course all get PRESS PASSES and be a recognized organization that Canon can sponser too if they wish or when we get big enough. I really think it could work!!

I want a PRESS PASS.

NiL,

[aeroshots2003]

Ahh, the idea to set up a mag is just to get a press pass?

That would be much too easy, wouldn't it?

[NILOLIGIST]

No, but I want press passes too. The idea is to get PUBLISHED. A lot of people here ask how do I get published all the time. This is a very good way to get published. Also, get press passes.

NiL,

[Doom1701e]

I call press pass for bay area sports photography! :D

[aeroshots2003]

Ok, then I would like to get a press pass too.

Now the paper work : what are the criteria to enlist for a pass?

[NILOLIGIST]

Forget about the PRESS PASS for now. We have to get the idea for the magazine going. We need sponsers and we need a editor, writing staff. Come on if you don't take this idea seriously that is okay. But, don't turn it into a joke because I am serious here.

NiL,

[aeroshots2003]

Sorry, got caried away although I was partly serious :wink:

First thing you have to know : are enough people interested in subscribing to it? Therefore you have to know what profile your mag will be - I mean there are enough mags on (digital) photography, wouldn't you agree?

Profile :
- a mag in which only members can contribute seems a good basic idea.
- not so much about tech aspects of your equipment but rather what you DO with it.
- how things are done in your field of photography.
- nice pics that make you go out and try things yourself.

Serious enough, I hope? :)

[Mike H]

At the risk of sounding like a naysayer (which I am not), you're going to need to develop a market orientation. Right now you are focusing on what the magazine would do for the publishers, not on what it would do for its readers. If my marketing professors knew anything at all, that's not the recipe for success. Here's how they used to describe it:

Product orientation: focus on the product
Market orientation: focus on customer wants/needs

The successful businesses tend to focus the second way.

To make this more concrete, ask yourself these questions:
1. Whom is my target audience?
2. What would they be interested in reading?
3. Is this a market niche not filled right now?
4. If the niche is filled, do I have some other way of meeting the consumer's needs in a better way?

After you get through those questions you can start to think about running the numbers. To do a break even analysis, we would have to know how much capital will this require, what the printing costs would be and potential sales prices per unit, etc.. Then there would be lots of other issues such as:

1. Distribution
2. Legal form of ownership
3. Who would be the initial investors
4. The amount each investor would have to kick in

And that's just off the top of my head.

Again, I don't want to throw cold water on anything ... I have a strong personal dislike for it when people do that. But it seems like a LOT of work to do if you just really want to get published. I would think that it's easier to find a photography project that you care about, do an awsome job shooting it, and submit it to places that might publish it. You need to decide whether you want to be a published photographer or a publisher.

I hope something in all of that is helpful.

Mike

[NILOLIGIST]

Most products on the market come from a individual need. Not what the consumer would want but what you the individual would want.

I am published several times in fact. I am sure I can get a press pass too. I would like to do this or am thinking of doing this to bring those things to a broader audience of the members here.

I like your input, it is not throwing cold water or me, it may on some. People want things but how much do they push for it.

I agree it is a lot of work. This forum that is being hosted and managed by Pekka is a lot of work. I don't see what a lot of work has to do with it at all. It is a lot of work getting all of this camera gear, it is a lot of work carrying it around, it is a lot of work, working everyday to get this camera gear. Life is a lot of work if you want to live a good one.

So in short. This is something that would benefit a lot of people but I guess you are right, it is a lot of work and most would not be interested in it.

Oh well, back to making sure I stay published...

NiL,

[Mike H]

One more thing popped into my alleged mind ... make sure that the magazine topic is something very dear to your heart. It has to be a topic that you have enough passion about to either already know a lot about it, or are willing to put in the time to learn. The same goes for the act of publishing itself; to be successful, you will need to work hard at it, and you will only do that if you really love doing it.

What could the topic be? As an example, many of us on this forum are passionate about (obsess over?) our Canon equipment. If there weren't an already an EOS Magazine (I've forgotten the exact title), that might be something that people would work on with true zeal.

Mike

[NILOLIGIST]

Some people more than one has emailed me about this topic...They all had great suggestions but did not want to share them with the group.

I can only say that if you don't want to share it with the group in this thread it would be best to keep it to yourself. I really am not interested in what people have to say in private because I am ONLY interested in what people have to say in this thread. I hope this doesn't sound harsh or mean.

Express your ideas HERE please!! The main reason is, you could inspire someone with YOUR courage or idea.

Thank you,

NiL,

[NILOLIGIST]

Well, I hope no one takes offense to this...But, I have found many, many people that are in to photography and they love it. They have great gear Canon or Nikon doesn't matter which. They are out there shooting, taking great photos and they can't admit to themselves or to others that they would either love to be a professional photographer, they would love to be published or both.

I would want a magazine that inspires those people to come out and admit what they really want by giving them access to the opportunities that are out there for them. I once read somewhere about a guy type of thing...Real stories. We have them all here...

There have been people here that have taken photos that have been published without any effort on their part. Those same people could go on to become famous well know photographers but it comes from a drive and desire deep within them.

They had to put their work and selves out there for all the world to see. I know because I am one of them. I am not the world greatest photographer by any means but I do have a drive that can fuel a jet plane or a rocket.

I have seen the work of many people here that take some outstanding shots and they have what it takes but can't admit that they want more than what they have. I want to speak to those people. I have been so inspired by RFMSports, he has helped me really take steps and chances just by posting his photos.

So for those that think this is a lame idea, I can understand that. For me it is not.

NiL,

[D60DIETER]

Let´s start a list of people who would like to get it. Let´s say on a quartly basis for 10.-US$ per issue.

I´m number one.

Dieter

[cmM]

This is a very interesting idea. Not quite easy to achieve, though in my opinion. I have knowledge in marketing or anything like that, but I suppose that before anything, one (or more) have to sit down and come up with a concrete plan, rather than just an idea: calculate expenses, add everything up to a total cost, then somehow forecast revenue and see it this thing would actually bring profit. Also, advertising. I suppose 90% of the members would subscribe, but.... I doubt that would be enough. Keep in mind, that there are thousands of magazines out there, and how many are good sellers :?:

Now, as for the magazine itself, I agree with Nil that there is enough material for this magazine, but all this has to be edited and put together in an attractive way so that the reader buys the second issue as well....

The idea itself, is BIG..... and big is good :P ..... it would be great to be part of it.

[aeroshots2003]

Nope Dieter, you're number 4 right now!

Nil
Aero
Doom
Dieter

Is Mike H also in?

As Mike said it would indeed be necessary to know how many subscribers you need to come break-even. All the Marketing hocus-pocus he talked about is good advice :
- what's your product
- is there a market
are the basic questions.

Nil, how would you split up the mag? Canon News section, Product reviews, US member section, Europe member section, Far East member section, member advertisements, readers' letters/comments,...

[mjordan]

Since being published seems to be the goal, the first thing you have to define is what is being published?

Do you consider being published when your picture is printed in a magazine that is really only going to be seen by the people that have their pictures in it? If so, there are plenty of vanity press magazines and books being published each year... and they don't cost you anything unless you fall for the hype and buy one of the copies. And to be able to publish something that matches the quality of the images that people would submit is going to take a lot of money, effort and resources.

If the act of being published is so others can see your work, then that is accomplished evertime someone posts an image on a web site or on here. If the act of being published is to get paid for others to see your work, then that's a different story. And if you want to be published in a publication that has name recognition to someone on the street, then you are talking something else all together.

In my opinion, it would be better to publish a list of known magazines and periodicals that will accept submissions from people like we have on this forum. List what is required to submit an image. I've been published hundreds of times... but I've only been paid a few times. And I've found that a lot of publications have some pretty detailed critiera for submission and some don't care what the image source as long as it's not chisled in stone. Many of the people on here have images that some publications would snap up in a heartbeat... but the authors haven't a clue what is involved or don't feel they would be accepted. Create a source of this information and you will go a lot further in helping people getting published than trying to create what you are talking about. That's my opinion anyway.

Mike

[msvadi]

may be it's easier to start with an electronic magazine - distributed in pdf format via emails - internet. If it turns out interesting - making the printed version is the next step.

[IndyJeff]

Nil I would be in for the idea. Some suggestions for consideration.....once you figure out all the costs for printing and distribution per issue, set a date for the first publication. Say Jan 1, 2005. It will probably take that long to secure the capitol, distribution and getting a printer lined up. Next you will need to have an office, phone, business license, fed and state ID #'s etc. Lots of work to do before you print anything.

Now so much for the downside of doing something like this, the upside to look at.......

Have a section where the average Joe could write in and ask the Professor. Technically, I am not very strong but, there are some on here who have a great tech knowledge of photography. A panel could be put together to discuss the questions and write the consensus answer.
Next you could have a review section where a member could review different cameras, from the P&S to the most advanced SLR. Canon may be able to have someone who can do that or donate a demonstrator camera and lens.
You could have topics that could rotate from, Nature and Wildlife, Portraits, Action & Sports, Flash, Lighting, Children, Kids Sports, Event, News, Advertisment, Selling Your Work, Stock and Legality Issues. I would love to do a column about Motorsports or Copyrights. I also think a monthly column called "Inspiration" would be a great one. It would be submitted by the readers and chosen from submissions by a panel. Remember the guy here who sent his motorcycle racing shot to a national magazine and they not only used it and paid him, they got him credentials to shoot another race for them. What a great story that was and an inspiration to guys who want to be published. My apologies to that member because I can't remember his name. I am over 40...that is allowed LOL.
Of course you will have to have ads to generate revenue, subsciptions won't pay the bills. A classified section for people looking for work or a photographer for a project, someone selling something or wants to buy.
Each month you could have a new contest with a different topics. Entries could be posted online and voted on by the subscribers. The following months issue would print the top 3. Each would win a prize, cash, equipment, subscriptions etc. Prizes could be donated in trade for advertising.

Now the hardest part would be the distribution. My suggestion would be to have all members who participate to contact their local camera clubs, high school, college and private and offer them a 6 month subscription of 2-4 mags at no charge. Then apply a discount for any member of that club that wishes to subscribe for a one year period. Aslo contact websites about photography and offer a contest for X number of subscriptions in return for advertisment space on their site.



Now my most critical part.....drop the phrase PRESS PASS. That is what the say in the 1950's movies. If you call someone in a credential office and ask for a press pass, you won't get very far because right off they will know by that phrase that your not "in the business". It is a credential, plain and simple. Now just because you have a magazine you represent don't expect that you will get credentials to any pro sports, at least in the US. They try to reduce the number of people on the sidelines, not increase it every year. Unless you can demonstrate a genuine need for photos from that event and can prove a dedicated coverage on a regular basis, your not getting one. A website that I do some shooting for that covers motorsports branched out into open wheel coverage this year. The guy running it even knew the head cheese at Indy credentials. Guess what? They wouldn't issue a credential to him or a writer and another photographer he had lined up. He sent me a "sorry but we didn't get credentials for Indy" email. I told him no problem, I can still provide him with photos. He sent me an email last Sunday desperately looking for a shot of Buddy Rice, the pole winner. I sent him one of Rice and another one of the front row. SpeedNewsNow (http://speednewsnow.com/IRL/Indy500.html)
Getting credentials is not just showing up and saying "Hey I represent Such&Such Magazine" and they issue you a credential. If your reason for this idea is to get access, give it up because that ain't gonna happen. I would stake my reputation on that.
The idea of the mag, it is a stroke of genius and if it can be pulled off, it would be great. I will give as much support and help as I can and really hope it works. Eventually you would have to pay the people who do the work but, for the first year all articles and support work should be donated. I will donate my services as I am sure others will for one year but, there has to be a reasonable expectation of a pay check down the road.

Good Luck, I really hope it works.

[swani]

starting a magazine just to get hold of press pass is not a very good idea.
having your work published doesnt automatically makes you a journalist.
i am holder of a press pass for the last 7 years. its doesnt automatically allows me to photograph football matches or pop concerts.
now days, a magazine has to sponser you and has to varifies that you work for that publication and has to prove.
there are many photographers out there photographing football matches and other event without a press pass...
only via sponser and verifying letter from the editior.
press pass is only good if you get arrested by the police while photographig some demo and can get you off the hook...

so.. forget about trying to start a magazine just for a press pass... its no use.

swani
london

[Penguin_101_1]

Count me in!

I would love to help in any way possible! I could help with the website (if there is one)

[NILOLIGIST]

Okay, so let's start with those that think this might be a good idea. If you feel this is a good idea and want to be a part of it. What would you contribute?

I want to be one of the people going after sponsers. I don't have much experience but would like to apply for the job. We might be able to raise funds by starting a stock photography site and generating money from there.

I like the idea of PDF format for the magazine but think if we could get the magazine printed and on the news stands it would do great. Is this magazine going to be INTERNATIONAL?

My suggest is list if you are in and what you are prepared to do. We need a staff of everything. Then we work on the format. Let's remember, this is my brainchild or idea but if you are in it becomes yours too. So stop referring to it as NiL's idea it belongs to us all. If it were just me it wouldn't be on this open forum.

So we need a staff.

Format.

Funding.

Sponsership.

Marketing.

Funny thing is, there is someone on this forum that probably has experience in all of these areas. So, let's pull together and we can make this happen.

Now, for those that are saying you only want to do this because...You want a press pass or you want to get published...Please re-read the thread. I am published and I am sure I can get a press pass without going through all of this...So harp on something else.

NiL,

[Penguin_101_1]

I think that it should be a local or national magazine. I would be happy to help with the website, e-mail, banners for ads, ect.

[karusel]

How about this: people shoot photos, that need to be of at least say, 4 megapixels, compressed tif/hq jpeg, send it to the editor who chooses them; half the magazine is all those chosen photos; photos can be bought; magazine takes 30%other half PS tips and tricks, commercials, lens/cam reviews.

[Penguin_101_1]

Well if this happens then I am going to get a G5 or maybe if the prices go down a digital rebel. I am saving now but I have other things I need. :D

[Bluelens]

Sounds like a fun idea, and I would love to jump fully into it..but...I am already running a magazine on the side and it is eating up most of my 'free time'. Not only that but the wife would kill me if I tried to do another publication. :wink:

With that said I would be more then happy to offer help or answer questions if anyone has any.

Our magazine, is a submission based (art, photo, fiction and articles)magazine andd we release every other month. While we have been around for 2 years now, our circulation is at 1,000 and we do not charge for it. Our money to run the magazine is from ads, donations and our own pocket (that is why is will be a long time before I get any cool studio gear ;) )

We are finishing up our paperwork and working with the IRS to establish our non-profit status.

Everything we do is in-house, from editing to layout to printing and building (building to us is collating, stapling, folding, etc.) Yes, we are an independant magazine, but we cut costs this way until we can get grants and ore moeny to come in so we can outsource the printing end of production. But this has helped us survive for 2 years while those around us ahve tried and only lasted 3 months.

It is hard work and you must be ready to sacrifice time and money to ave a successful publication.

BTW, we started the magazine the same way...someone posting an interest in an online forum :)

[msvadi]

We might be able to raise funds by starting a stock photography site and generating money from there.

I think it's a great idea by itself. Why won't we start from here? So far, there is only one site like this that I'm aware of artfuel.com. And a couple of month ago it stopped to accept new submissions.

[ilya]

Hey Nils

Great idea.

Find advertisers, and you can do anything.

Keep in mind that your sub fees (circulation revenues) won't even cover your production and distribution costs.

I've seen a couple of mag launches before. That was from a perspective of a large established publisher with existing financial and managerial resources in place already. Can't say I've seen any one individual launch a successful pub before, but I've seen folks have success with online newsletter kinds of publishing. If there is no costs to deliver and print something, you've essentially cut out most of the cost.

But if you've got an idea where you can appeal to the advertiser community, you've got it made. Hint, if you make an EOS mag, you've cut off most everything that's not Canon. Keep in mind that you want nice big full page ads from the Canons and Nikons and Fuji and etc. B&H stuff in back of book looks to be small dollars.

I don't have any suggestions for positioning ideas for you, I'm sorry. The bottom line is you need two things, of which you have one - passion and advertisers.

Cheers
Ilya

[NILOLIGIST]

Hi all,

This is just that an idea. I would love to do it and I think others would like to join in. Now, time is a huge factor. I don't have much time and I don't think most people here have much to spare.

So, my question is to those that think it is a good idea and that it could work...What are you prepared to do.

If we go forward, I would like to be a part of this but not the whole thing. It seems like all of this would fall on me and I don't have time.

Anyone really interested...Let's get some ideas on the table. I would like this to be an effort of many not the work of a few.

I would suggest we start with the stock photography to raise the money.

NiL,

[karusel]

You don't have any experiences in publishing or in the making-process of a magazine, you don't know how things work, you can't physically assemble a willing working team and cannot really rely on those who might be willing to participate and above all, you don't have much time. In other words: forget it. It's not that I'm trying my best to be a negative nancy, but dude, you want to bring out a MAGAZINE. I am not an expert here, but I would imagine, that full and complete dedication to the project is basest of the base requirements.

[NILOLIGIST]

The problem with some people that posts here is THEY ONLY READ WHAT THEY WANT!!

I put the idea out there, I got a response and I can decide what or should I move forward. It seems a lot have a interest but how many have a real interest.

I don't see anything wrong with saying that it I will not be the ONLY ONE doing work on this project.

Experience helps a lot but the project is not doomed if I don't have it. It might surprise you not every magazine was started by people with experience. Sometimes you hire people to do things that you can't do. Not every publisher is a writer but he has articles in his magazine, nor is every editor a photographer yet he has images...

So forgive me but I have missed your point and not sure what it is or was meant to be.

Luckily for me, I take what people say with a grain of salt. There will always be people that will sit on the sidelines and say what can or can't be done, that is usually why they are on the sidelines. I look at what can be done. Life for me is a risk and I am willing to take it on if it is worth it. This is an idea and if you think it will go away because you say it can't work, sorry it won't. Perhaps for you it couldn't work for any number of reason. Perhaps for me it won't work but I would have to first TRY to know that.

For the record, if I wanted to take on this project alone and do it, I could and the original post would be...Go get my magazine on the news stand.

LOL...

For those that are REALLY interested in this...email me nygemini2@nyc.rr.com we can start brainstorming and taking steps to make this a reality. I am getting really bored with the doomsdayers and would like to explore what can be done instead of what can't. In my opinion, ANYTHING can be done if you want it bad enough within reason.

Yes, I am busy as I am sure we all are. I am trying to set my photography business up, keep up with my incoming business. But I will make time for this.

NiL,

[karusel]

With all the respect, you've really missed my point. I shall put it out again, and for the record, this is just my humble opinion: Not dedicating yourself completely to a project of these proportions may very well yield unsatisfactory and discouraging results. That is all. I never said it cannot be done. New magazines come out pretty often, but there are very few that really make it and IMO the basis for success is complete dedication. If you just put out the idea, there still has to be someone that will lead the way, if not you, someone else who will hold all the volunteers together, guide them, actually register the company, do the business. And don't call me a doomsdayer.

[NILOLIGIST]

I think I you are right. Please forgive me but I think you are here just making statements pointing out things that are somewhat obvious and you don't really have a point at all. You don't seem interested in being a part of it and you seem to be a doomsdayer to me. Now if I am wrong and I have again missed your point please point it out to me cause it has escaped me. You have pointed things that may well be true but for some reason you seem to think those things aren't of interest to me or others or that we aren't aware of them.

I am trying to say that some people always take the position of pointing out what is missing instead of concentrating on what is present.

I hope you will not take my response as harsh or as being mean. Your input as well as everyone is appreciated and wanted. This is a open forum. But I haven't seen what positive you are bringing to this thread. I don't see that you want to be a part of it. I really don't see what the point of your post is, so you are right I have missed your point.

If you can get this, this is an idea that I put out there. I don't think people that want to do this will be as discourage as you say, if so, then perhaps this isn't the right venue for them. Fortunately, I don't get discourage easily or at all. I will try something FIRST before saying it can't be done.

Keep posting it is actually fun.

NiL,

[karusel]

I don't know why you keep repeating I don't want to be a part of this. First of all, if I were uninterested I would not post in this thread, and if you look back I actually spat out an idea. Then I got disturbed by this 'lack of time' thing.

If I understand correctly, you are just bringing out the idea of starting a magazine, being involved, but not leading the way, just tossing a remark here, an idea there of what could be done and how. And from this point of view, there is no way in the world I or anyone could justly critisize you for it.

I will try to be constructive and not just doomsdayer like you have persistently put it out a few times. Now someone really has to grab the idea with both hands and raise a team and funds, obviously funds are much harder to raise but it is doable. Speaking of which, the way I see it the fastest and most reliable way would be to simply invest something in it. Sure, it might be risky, but at least things will move and they will move fast. It needs to be formulated exactly for whom the magazine would be and what would be in it. Right, that is obvious. So, I suggest aiming at the pro and 'pro wannabes' so actually from compact, 'G series people' to 'DSLR people'. What topics would it include should be a part of brainstorming sessions done within the team, possibly with gathering information about what poeople want via online polls. I made my suggestions regarding content in my first post in this thread. Then inquiring about printing prices, where it would be printed - not necesserily US, advertisments in the mag, advertizing the mag, distributors, etc. etc. I have a friend who actually works in one of countries biggest printshops, but I live in Slovenia, so I don't know if this actually could help.

[NILOLIGIST]

I give up!! What would you like to do?

NiL,

[karusel]

What do you mean? What I would personally like to do or what I think needs to be done?

[NILOLIGIST]

Our conversation is over...I am going to leave at my last comment. This is pointless and it is not going anywhere.

Post a reply or replies but don't expect me to respond back.

NiL,

[Penguin_101_1]

All that he is saying is that it won't work if you are not there all the time. I don't know why he is saying that. I think it is a great idea if someone who is retired and has a lot of time can do most of the work. I am going to PM this to you.

[karusel]

Very well, I shall refrain from posting further comments.

[NILOLIGIST]

Forgive me post all you want..I am the one that mistakenly posted this thread. Forget I ever started this thread.

I thought this could be a GROUP project that we could all share, instead this has turned into NiL you create a magazine for some and we will help you out. That was not my intention. I will keep my DUMB idea to myself and if I fancy I will start MY OWN magazine and STOCK SITE.

Thanks all that posted but this was suppose to be a project for ALL OF US!!

NiL,