Black and White photography with the 10D w/o post-processing

[Hatem Eldoronki]

Is there a b&w viewfinder or filter that I could buy to achieve this? I don't want to post-process the photos to desaturate the colors, and I believe that seeing the picture in b&w while composing is a much more accurate approach..

[DaveG]

Is there a b&w viewfinder or filter that I could buy to achieve this? I don't want to post-process the photos to desaturate the colors, and I believe that seeing the picture in b&w while composing is a much more accurate approach..

I seem to remember reading about the old Hollywood directors having a loupe type thing that they could look through to get a B&W look at a scene. Maybe they are still out there somewhere. But this would only be for previewing. I know of nothing that would knock out the colour before you pushed the shutter. But I can only imagine how many stops it'd knock off your ISO!

But that view woudn't include any variation for "black and white filter" like red, orange or yellow. Ansel Adams had to previsualize an image and would imagine what that colour scene would look like, not only in black and white, but also if he applied a red (yellow, orange, blue ...) filter.

Perhaps it looks like you are doing something more pure by "shooting" in black and white but it's a little too granola-like for me. If you get a colour capture you have the opportunity to apply "filters" during post processing, and in infinitely small steps. Play with the channel mixer to see what you can do. Why tie a hand around your back, even if you could?

[iwatkins]

Many point and shoot digicams have a B&W mode. However, their output is never as good as shooting colour then converting (IMHO).

No, filter that I know of that can knock all the colour out of an image.

You can still get a loupe type viewer that allows you to view a scene by tone. Company in the UK stocks them but cannot place the leaflet at this very moment.

Anyway, take all you images in colour and just batch process them to B&W afterwards. :)

Cheers

Ian

[Digital Prophet]

When I first bought my 300D (all of three months ago) I spent alot of time trying to find a black and white filter too. And I came up empty handed. So I feel your pain.

But here is a bit of info you may find usefull. In the April, 2004 issue of Digital Photo there is an article that is part of the "Digital Photo Ultimate Photoshop Course" that focuses on creating black and white images from color. Now I know that you said you did not want to post process. But if it looks like you are going to end up doing that, then maybe you can at least get some usefull info from this article. I know I did.

But FYI, the price of the magazine is $11.50 in the states because it is a european import. But it really is a good magazine, I rarely miss an issue.

- Digital Prophet -

[DaveG]

When I first bought my 300D (all of three months ago) I spent alot of time trying to find a black and white filter too. And I came up empty handed. So I feel your pain.

But here is a bit of info you may find usefull. In the April, 2004 issue of Digital Photo there is an article that is part of the "Digital Photo Ultimate Photoshop Course" that focuses on creating black and white images from color. Now I know that you said you did not want to post process. But if it looks like you are going to end up doing that, then maybe you can at least get some usefull info from this article. I know I did.

But FYI, the price of the magazine is $11.50 in the states because it is a european import. But it really is a good magazine, I rarely miss an issue.

- Digital Prophet -


I had a friend who used to spend days trying to figure out a way of getting fine grain out of Tri-X film. He'd soak it, try esoteric developers, mess with the agitation and so forth; none of which produced the grain he could have gotten from Plus-X and Kodak's instructions. It was straight out a waste of time and effort. It's kind of like saying that I want to write this email but I don't want to push ENTER and can someone figure it out for me please?

Well just get over it, and metaphorically at least, push ENTER; use one of the thousands of methods in Photoshop to achieve digital B&W, or go back to B&W film.

[Digital Prophet]

I guess I missed something. But the guy was asking about a possible filter. So I related my own experience and then gave him a lead on some info he might not have.

So what that has to do with your friend I am not sure. Maybe he is like myself and does not hat a 35mm camera. Maybe he prefers the feel of and convenience of a digital. Whatever the reason, I don't see how "Well just get over it, and metaphorically at least, push ENTER; use one of the thousands of methods in Photoshop to achieve digital B&W, or go back to B&W film." contributes anything to the conversation.

If you aren't part of the solution ... well you know the rest.

- Digital Prophet -

[msvadi]

Is there a b&w viewfinder or filter that I could buy to achieve this? I don't want to post-process the photos to desaturate the colors, and I believe that seeing the picture in b&w while composing is a much more accurate approach..

May I ask why you don't want to post-process?

Desaturation alone won't give a good black and white, I agree with that. But there are plenty of methods to make outstanding black-and-whites in PS.

Of course, seeing in B&W while composing would be nice.

[Hatem Eldoronki]

Of course, seeing in B&W while composing would be nice.

That's exactly the reason. I already post-process a lot of photos, but the composition parts is what matters to me most..

[boBquincy]

In one of his books Ansel Adams mentions a viewing filter that makes a scene look somewhat like B&W.
The book is probably "The Camera" since I don't see it in the other 2 in the series and I can't find "The Camera" right now. This book also has other tips for 'seeing' an image in B&W, and this series is highly recommended even for digital imaging.


boB

[PhotosGuy]

I seem to remember reading about the old Hollywood directors having a loupe type thing that they could look through to get a B&W look at a scene.

I seem to remember that they used a medium green. Don't buy a filter. Try a hobby shop & get plain green glass or plastic to look through.

Note that colored filters will make the same color lighter & opposite colors darker, but you can get a similar effect by shooting color & just turning off 2 of the RGB Channels in P$hop. Do an on-line search & you'll find a lot of links.

Adobe: Converting Color Image to Black and White
http://media.studio.adobe.com/tips/media/en/phs8colorbw/pdfs/phs8colorbw.pdf

http://www.thelightsright.com/DigitalDarkroom/Tutorials.htm#DuotonesTutorial

[DaveG]

Of course, seeing in B&W while composing would be nice.

That's exactly the reason. I already post-process a lot of photos, but the composition parts is what matters to me most..

In your original post you said: "... I don't want to post-process the photos to desaturate the colors, ..." and thats why I commented on how it's more trouble than it's worth to figure out a workaround, and that you just have to do it in Photoshop.

The concluding part of your sentence was "... and I believe that seeing the picture in b&w while composing is a much more accurate approach." which might be true. But you could only see one type of B&W image. When you start with a full colour capture you leave the door open to all kinds of interpretations of that scene and there would be no filter(s) made - although there's a pretty good one in your head - that would let you see all the variables. So after it's all over I don't see where a B&W viewing filter would be any more useful than your eyes seeing colour, and your brain thinking B&W.

[Hatem Eldoronki]

DaveG,
I am not familiar with a lot of photogear, and I was simply asking if there was a filter...
I know how to use PS, and I don't just desaturate.

[boBquincy]

Do a search for "b&w viewing filter". They appear to be available.

[Digital Prophet]

Now you see. That just rocks.

Thanks for that heads up.

- Digital Prophet -

[chtgrubbs]

Calumet Photo sells the Zone VI B&W Viewing Filter. It is a brownish colored filter which doesn't remove all color but helps visualize tonal relationships.

[gkas]

The viewing filter you're looking for is a Wratten 90. You can buy the filter and put it in a slide mount. It's a gelatin filter, and pretty fragile.

[dsze]

It seems like once people learn other methods for converting to B&W, they automatically hate the simple desaturation. More often than not, I convert at the RAW file stage and do so by adjusting the RGB levels until I get the look that I want. Often times, it is not a true B&W, but has more of a red/orange/brown feel to it. It depends on the photo though. I recently played with one that I wanted to have a slight blue/cool feel to it.

That being said, there are still those few times that I think the simple desat. in PS offers the best look.

How many people apply a gradient map to achieve their conversion? I'm still playing with finding new ways.... I'm also enjoying the Photo Filter option in the CS.