i still do not fully understand color management... help...!

[flipteg]

ok, my work flow goes like this... i do as much color correcting, cropping, exposure editing in RAW files using Lightroom... i then export the photos to JPEG with the AdobeRGB color space... i do the rest of editing like collaging and other layers work in Photoshop using that JPEG file (by the way, the that the proper way of doing things...?)

the photos are used for both web display, and printing... converting the images from Lightroom, does that mean that i should have 2 different versions...? one using sRGB (for web display) and another using AdobeRGB for prints...? up until now, i just upload all the pictures directly to the web without worrying too much about color management... but i want to make sure everything is set up ok before i start color correcting hundreds of photos and getting those photos printed... i don't want to do all that color correction only to find out later on that i should have done it in a different color space or getting files printed that were color corrected in a different color space...

[flipteg]

i just tested a picture from Lightroom... i color corrected, set exposure of a photo in Lightroom... i then saved the photo 3 times, only changing the color space... AdobeRGB, sRGB, and ProPhoto... i then opened the 3 photos in a non color managed program (Picasa2)... in Picasa, the AdobeRGB color space was the same color that i see in Lightroom... the sRGB was too warm, and the ProPhoto was too dark... now i do not know what i should correct for and what color space should i save my pictures to...

[flipteg]

here is what's confusing me,

RAW file... color balance and exposure adjusted in Lightroom...

then exported to AdobeRGB and sRGB...

when the two pictuers are viewed on a non color managed application, such as Internet Explorer, the sRGB's colors are really washed out... although the AdobeRGB also do not look exactly the same as from Lightroom, it is much closer to what i intended for the picture to look like...

the only thing i can think of is the work space on my Lightroom is set to AdobeRGB... but how do i change it to sRGB if i want to use that later on...?

[Freff]

I hope you get replies to this. I'd be interested in others views on your observations.

[In2Photos]

First things first. Is your monitor calibrated?

[Sathi]

here is what's confusing me,

RAW file... color balance and exposure adjusted in Lightroom...

then exported to AdobeRGB and sRGB...

when the two pictuers are viewed on a non color managed application, such as Internet Explorer, the sRGB's colors are really washed out... although the AdobeRGB also do not look exactly the same as from Lightroom, it is much closer to what i intended for the picture to look like...

the only thing i can think of is the work space on my Lightroom is set to AdobeRGB... but how do i change it to sRGB if i want to use that later on...?

I would think if you converted to sRGB profile that the colors should not look washed out. Maybe slightly different but if they are way off then something is wrong. Did you make sure you attached the ICC profile when you converted to sRGB? Maybe you should post a couple of pictures here.

[In2Photos]

I would think if you converted to sRGB profile that the colors should not look washed out. Maybe slightly different but if they are way off then something is wrong. Did you make sure you attached the ICC profile when you converted to sRGB? Maybe you should post a couple of pictures here.
Attaching the profile shouldn't matter in a non-color managed application. It doesn't read it anyway.

[BillMarks]

There is a difference between "assigning" a file a color space and "converting" it to a color space. I found this out my chance--altough I'm sure it's in a manual somewhere...

Assigning an sRGB color space to an RGB file will wash ot the colors. Converting an RGB file to sRGB will maintain the color saturation to the extent it is withing the capabilities of the smaller, sRGB, profile.

[*Mike*]

Okay, I'll probably be a little unpopular with this one...

Unless someone understands color management, I tend to say, just use sRGB. The benefit that you may get from using AdobeRGB is probably going to be lost anyway if you don't know what you're doing. Many labs will even require sRGB files anyway. So, forget the headaches and go with the simplest most effective route.

If you find that you can tell the difference between sRGB and Adobe RGB in your final product - then start reading. It's a good sign that it would be worth the effort. Otherwise, the benefits aren't even noticed and you create a world of headaches.

So, am I nuts? Is it worth making people's heads spin?

[In2Photos]

Okay, I'll probably be a little unpopular with this one...

Unless someone understands color management, I tend to say, just use sRGB. The benefit that you may get from using AdobeRGB is probably going to be lost anyway if you don't know what you're doing. Many labs will even require sRGB files anyway. So, forget the headaches and go with the simplest most effective route.

If you find that you can tell the difference between sRGB and Adobe RGB in your final product - then start reading. It's a good sign that it would be worth the effort. Otherwise, the benefits aren't even noticed and you create a world of headaches.

So, am I nuts? Is it worth making people's heads spin?
Nope, not nuts. In fact Tim has been saying this for a long time. However LR uses ProPhotoRGB and there is no way to change it. So if you edit in LR and view your file in a non- color managed application you are going to find your results are not pleasant (providing your edits were written to the file and not the database, so they are visible in software outside of LR). So if you use LR you still must understand some color management.

[*Mike*]

Thanks Mike! I haven't made the jump to LR yet. I'm just too content with my Bridge --> ACR --> CS2 workflow. Eventually I'll end up using it... I'm just really slow to embrace change. :oops:

I appreciate the heads up.

[In2Photos]

Thanks Mike! I haven't made the jump to LR yet. I'm just too content with my Bridge --> ACR --> CS2 workflow. Eventually I'll end up using it... I'm just really slow to embrace change. :oops:

I appreciate the heads up.
I made the jump and haven't looked back. In fact sometimes I have trouble helping out someone with a Bridge/CS2 question because it has been so long since I used them. :o

[flipteg]

my monitor is calibrated... i just bought the hardware to do it a few days ago...

the colors with the sRGB are not washed out... it's the opposite...

i do all my color correction with the RAW file in Lightroom... i then export it to jpeg... before i had the monitor calibrated, i didn't really care which one i picked cause i can't see the colors anyways...

from Lightroom, the sRGB jpeg exports have colors that are much more saturated than what i see in Lightroom... the AdobeRGB is a little unsaturated compared to what i see in Lightroom, but it is closer in colors compared to sRGB...

note that this is only when viewed in a non color managed application like when posted on the web... for web viewing, i don't really care what color space i use, i just want to get the same colors from Lightroom as with the exported jpeg... it seems like i can't get that with either sRGB or AdobeRGB... the only work around i can think of is doing color correction fine tuning in Photoshop after they have been exported to jpeg, but that is such a hassle for just web pics...

with color managed application, obviously i get the same colors from Lightroom, but now, i'm starting to wonder if i should worry more about what color space i use if i'm gonna get the pictures printed...?

OR

should i just color correct my photos in Lightroom and just completely disregard non color managed apps...?

[gcogger]

What you should NOT do is correct the images to look good in non-colour managed applications. All you'll be doing is to make them look good on your monitor - they'll probably look wrong on other people's.

The usual approach is to convert images to sRGB for web viewing, as they will then look 'OK' on most people's uncalibrated systems. There's no way to make them look correct on all systems, but an sRGB image will be about the best you can do.

For your own purposes, only look at colour issues in a colour-managed application. If you don't, then you are correcting the colour for the specific characteristics of a single (uncalibrated) monitor. From what you've said, it sounds like your monitor is far from average...

[flipteg]

i think it's starting to make sense now... all those years viewing images in a non calibrated monitor before i bought the calibration unit, i remember that when viewed in a non color managed app, the sRGB looked just right and the AdobeRGB looks really unsaturated... this means that my uncalibrated monitor was too much on the cool side (which was confirmed by the calibration software's before and after view)... now that it is properly calibrated (shifted to the warm side) sRGB's now look over saturated (especially on the red's, greens, and skin tones), and the AdobeRGB's, which used to look unsaturated, now looks just right...

[In2Photos]

i think it's starting to make sense now... all those years viewing images in a non calibrated monitor before i bought the calibration unit, i remember that when viewed in a non color managed app, the sRGB looked just right and the AdobeRGB looks really unsaturated... this means that my uncalibrated monitor was too much on the cool side (which was confirmed by the calibration software's before and after view)... now that it is properly calibrated (shifted to the warm side) sRGB's now look over saturated (especially on the red's, greens, and skin tones), and the AdobeRGB's, which used to look unsaturated, now looks just right...
However, on a calibrated monitor when viewing images in a non-color managed application the sRGB images should look correct, not the AdobeRGB images. In a color managed application you should see little to no difference in the two as long as the profiles are embedded in the images.

[kkaimiv]

I made the jump and haven't looked back. In fact sometimes I have trouble helping out someone with a Bridge/CS2 question because it has been so long since I used them. :o

I'm probably going to sound like a moron, but what is LR? All I've ever used is CS/bridge.

[In2Photos]

I'm probably going to sound like a moron, but what is LR? All I've ever used is CS/bridge.
LR is Lightroom, Adobe's newest software for photographers.

[kkaimiv]

I guess I need to look into that.....but what about cs3?

[Coastwatch203]

Lightroom advice. Ok guys, I have been using Bridge, CS2 for ages for all my image to print processing. A mate suggested I download LR - which I have done- . and it looks great, but the $64,000 question is how do LR and CS2 intergrate together? What should i be doing in LR, and what should I then import into CS2? - What is the correct "workflow"? - Do i now disregard Bridge altogether? - I have a 30D and print to an Epson 3800 which the shop guy said I should set to Adobe RGB,- Lightroom wants to export in Photo pro RGB,,, ok,,, so what should I do? I would appreciate some answers from you guys that have worked it out. Many thanks in anticipation.! - Mark.

[In2Photos]

I guess I need to look into that.....but what about cs3?
Well CS3 isn't really "new". It is more an update to CS2. But yes, very popular amongst photogs as well. The two serve very different purposes, IMO but CS3 can do many things similar to LR. LR can do some things that CS3 can not, and CS3 can do MANY things that LR can not.

[flipteg]

However, on a calibrated monitor when viewing images in a non-color managed application the sRGB images should look correct, not the AdobeRGB images. In a color managed application you should see little to no difference in the two as long as the profiles are embedded in the images.

but when you convert your own RAW files, does your sRGB match what you see in Lightroom...?

or should i even worry about all of these...? as long as i'm color correcting for color managed apps, i should be ok right...? and should i just continue using AdobeRGB...?

[In2Photos]

but when you convert your own RAW files, does your sRGB match what you see in Lightroom...?

Yes, it does. I have yet to see a major difference between any profiles when converting. After all that is what is supposed to happen. The image should look the same after conversion.


or should i even worry about all of these...? as long as i'm color correcting for color managed apps, i should be ok right...? and should i just continue using AdobeRGB...?
Use whatever color space works for you. Just stick with it. As long as you are using color managed applications that are setup correctly you should be fine.

[René Damkot]

i think it's starting to make sense now... all those years viewing images in a non calibrated monitor before i bought the calibration unit, i remember that when viewed in a non color managed app, the sRGB looked just right and the AdobeRGB looks really unsaturated...

That's what's supposed to happen...

this means that my uncalibrated monitor was too much on the cool side (which was confirmed by the calibration software's before and after view)... now that it is properly calibrated (shifted to the warm side) sRGB's now look over saturated (especially on the red's, greens, and skin tones), and the AdobeRGB's, which used to look unsaturated, now looks just right...

Nope. 'Warm' or 'cool' have nothing to do with the saturation.

What is your monitor gamma set to? It should be at 2.2.

Click the link from my sig, and go to the monitor test links. I suspect your monitor profile is off in some way.

Normally, an sRGB file will look close to 'normal' in a non color managed application.
Any image in a colorspace with a wider gamut (Adobe RGB, ProPhotoRGB more so) will look 'whashed out' to 'totally off'.

but when you convert your own RAW files, does your sRGB match what you see in Lightroom...?

It should look the same in PS, and allmost the same in a non colormanaged application, like most web browsers.

or should i even worry about all of these...? as long as i'm color correcting for color managed apps, i should be ok right...? and should i just continue using AdobeRGB...?

I suggest you get an understanding about color management....
As long as you don't have that, I agree with some previous posts: sRGB will do fine.
If you are going to use an other working space, you *must* understand CM, and have everything set up right...