Starting new rental store

[markol]

We are starting a new rental store online. www.borrowlenses.com (http://www.borrowlenses.com) We have been live and taking orders for 3 days now, and cannot say that we are happy with the results. We had about 500 hits on the site, but only a couple of actual orders. I think that the greatest challenge is marketing.

We are engineers by day, so getting a website up was less than challenging. None of us founders have any business or marketing background, however. Would anyone have any suggestions on where best to advertise????

[Karl C]

We are starting a new rental store online. www.borrowlenses.com (http://photography-on-the.net/forum/www.borrowlenses.com) We have been live and taking orders for 3 days now, and cannot say that we are happy with the results. We had about 500 hits on the site, but only a couple of actual orders. I think that the greatest challenge is marketing.

We are engineers by day, so getting a website up was less than challenging. None of us founders have any business or marketing background, however. Would anyone have any suggestions on where best to advertise????

You might want to fix the link in your post so that it points to the correct website. ;)

[Tomi Hawk]

You might want to fix the link in your post so that it points to the correct website. ;)
Errr yeah .. thats always a help .. :)

But I'll give ya a free BuMp to the top .. and say that when I get ready to ever rent a lens
You guyz will be the first to know .. :D

G'luck with everything .. once the word gets out, I'm sure you'll do fine ..
advertise,advertise,advertise!

[markol]

That was rather weird. I wonder why it did not link right. I fixed the problem just now. Thanks for pointing that little blunder out. :oops:

[ssim]

It is my experience that most of the lenses that you have as rentals are financially attainable by a large contingent of the population. The primary reason that persons rent lenses is to try before they buy or to just use a lens they can't afford. This is where I see rental places having lens like the 300 f/2.8, 400 f/2.8, 500 f/4 and 600 f/4.

What did your business plan call for with respect to the number of customers after just a few days. I would think that any firm orders after just 3 days is probably a bonus. Be true to your plan, you did have one didn't you.

Marketing, I think just keep hitting the forum boards. I don't know any photographers that don't visit their favorite.

[aIpha]

We are starting a new rental store online. www.borrowlenses.com (http://www.borrowlenses.com) We have been live and taking orders for 3 days now, and cannot say that we are happy with the results.

Sure hope your business plan didn't include the phrase "overnight success". One of the biggest downfall web-based business owners run into is the idea that once they 'open' up their web site, thousands and thousands of hits will be generated automatically and push sales numbers.

It's very easy to be fooled by sites like YouTube and MySpace but if you do some research, these sites were open and available LONG before they became iconic in status. Hell, try to think about the day you first used Google or when the word "google" became a verb for the world... it probably was years after google.com was registered and available for access.

Web sites get popular exponentially if you do everything right but this takes time. Even if you don't do everything right, you can be successful but it will take even more time.

If, whenever you started developing this site, you thought the site would be successful in three days of starting it then you need to go back to your business plan and moderate it accordingly. Three days is not enough time for you to be looking at the numbers being generated... I suggest that you set quarterly goals for your business and check the numbers every three months. Don't set the bar too high that you'll never reach each goal and similarly don't set it too low that you don't make a profit and limit growth.

Other things you should be looking at are: SEO, invest in advertising, promotions, and most importantly... every single minute, you should be concious of the fact that #1 thing that attract customers is... top-notch customer service.

Good luck, don't give up.

[kuanyu]

3 days and 500 hits is nothing, advertize (maybe on www.photography-on-the.net (http://www.photography-on-the.net)). A HUGE part of thoose 500 hits are most likely your friends/family/yourselfs. It can take some time to get your company name out there!

[HoRnYTuRbO]

i never rented glass before but your prices looks good to me, best of luck to yah

[Jon, The Elder]

The primary reason that persons rent lenses is to try before they buy or to just use a lens they can't afford. This is where I see rental places having lens like the 300 f/2.8, 400 f/2.8, 500 f/4 and 600 f/4.

I agree wholeheartedly.

Wander on up to some 'Birding' sites, specific photo forums directed toward any specialty subject. Think, think, think.

The basic idea is excellent. The day-to-day running is the side that will make-or-break you.
Re-invest every cent you can.

Do not forget that as this planet turns, shooting 'seasons' move from country to country.

Get real friendly with UPS,Fed-Ex, and DHL.
After insurance, still expect a certain amount of loss, how much you won't know for a while. Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.

I'll take your first Mid-west franchise when you are ready.

[adam LC]

I hope you don't mind me saying, but not charging a deposit is a mistake, IMO. Your prices are excellent and I'm sure that after some marketing you'll have orders coming out of your ears. But seriously, the logisitics and lens treatment from the client alone should definately warrant a deposit of some kind... in relation to the value of the lens.

Otherwise, the site is simple and very effective, I'm sure you'll do very well. Tell us how it's going in six months and a years time!

Also I forgot to say, where's the big guns? they're the ones I want to rent!

[markol]

There are a number of reasons to not charge a deposit. First, none of the other online renters charge one. I feel like that would drive business elsewhere. Invisible hand of capitalism and all that. Second, the transaction fee from the credit card that eats into the profit margin. Every merchant gets charged a transaction fee by the CC processor for both a charge, and a refund.

We are working on adding the big guns. So far we have added the 1.4x and 2x extenders and bought our first 70-200 f2.8 IS, that got rented in 10 minutes flat. We should be adding more very soon. Probably the 400 f5.6 and the 300 f2.8 IS, as well as more copies of the ones we already have.

[Jon, The Elder]

Re-read response #9.

[PhotosGuy]

Roger Cicala is a POTN member & might have some input for you.
http://www.lensrentals.com/

[Steve Parr]

We are starting a new rental store online. www.borrowlenses.com (http://www.borrowlenses.com) We have been live and taking orders for 3 days now, and cannot say that we are happy with the results. We had about 500 hits on the site, but only a couple of actual orders. I think that the greatest challenge is marketing.

We are engineers by day, so getting a website up was less than challenging. None of us founders have any business or marketing background, however. Would anyone have any suggestions on where best to advertise????

Well, with just starting out, I think it'll take a little while to "hit your groove". I wouldn't be too worried about only a few orders in three days.

Along with online stuff (such as on forums like this), I would advertise locally, as well, in both the local metropolitan newspaper and the yellow pages. I know my local shop often has a good number of their rental lenses out at any one time and, as far as I know, the fact that they rent lenses is not prominently advertised anywhere but on their website.

I believe there's a way to get your website positioned high on search engines, so that when someone does a search on "lens rental" in, say, Google, your site is one of the first ones to show up. I don't know anything about doing it, but I know it can be done.

Personally, I plan on using your service; I'm just waiting for the right opportunity. Also, having a very wide selection is important. Super-telephotos are always a big temptation for me. Of course, there's your significant initial monetary lay-out, but I think those would be pretty sought after as rentals.

Good luck with the new gig. You'll have my business in the near future...

[markol]

Thank you so much for all the info. Things have definetly picked up since my first forum post. There has been an immeasurable amount of support from this forum, and others. Some of the reviews we got in the for sale forum here are melting my heart. Thank you all for all the good wishes. The advice is invaluable. We are working on advertising to more forums, getting ourselves higher on google, etc.

We are also getting ready to go on the next buying spree. There should be a lot more inventory in a couple of weeks. Stay tuned.

[vwpilot]

I think the biggest thing has been mentioned. Get glass that people normally rent. That is glass that the normal person cannot afford. I would be that most rentals are lenses in the supertele range and things that the average person wont own, but would like to use on occasion.

You shouldnt bother with anything "consumer." Everything you have should be high end stuff that either pros need to rent for a special project or while their lens is being fixed or something like that. Or its the things as mentioned, the stuff the average person cant afford.

Good luck with it.

[Roger Cicala]

Well, I'll share my experience, and feel free to email me if you like. First, business will come to you. Getting people to rent your lenses is easy. Making a profitable business out of it is a bit more difficult.
1) Personally, we avoid Google like the plague. Our business model is geared toward serious amatuers and pros. Those people get information from forums like this. Google gets folks who often don't know what they want or have expectations that are unreasonable. Its also a place where people who intend to rip you off will look for you.
2) For us, the most important part is great customer service. That leads to repeat customers. Its much more comfortable dealing with people who you know will send your lenses back. And word of mouth will lead to other good customers. Google won't do that. But it takes time. We were in business for 3 momths before we had our first "repeat" customer. Now repeat customers are 70% of our business.
3) As mentioned above: Have lenses and gear people don't already have
4) Have a business plan. Where do you want your niche to be? There are mostly two types or rental businesses. Type A doesn't take reservations, simply 'if available you can have it'. That's more profitable and you can lower your prices. Type B takes reservations. Its less profitable (lenses have to sit on the shelf when reserved) and/or requires higher prices, but we think customers are more satisfied. If you're going to take reservations, the only way to be profitable is have a lot of copies of each lens. If you've got 3 copies, and someone reserves one for 3 weeks from now, you're going to have a lot of shelf time.
5) Have money or a line of credit in the bank. You'll find times you need to buy a lens or two or three right now. Lenses get broken and go in for repair, get lost or stolen, etc. When that happens you'll have other customers waiting for the lens and you have to get it to them (see #2)
6) Finally for you specifically, your strength is probably your location: there's not a lot of West Coast rental houses, and you're in a densely populated area. Push your local market first. You'll have quicker turnaround and are more likely to develop good relationships with your local customers leading to repeat business. Even in a small market like Memphis, local customers are a fair percentage of our business. For you they could be most of it.

Best in your new venture.

Roger Cicala

[Croasdail]

I'll second what Roger said about getting the word out locally. In your area there are tons of camera shops that don't rent. Let them know you are there. Also let the local clubs and such know you are in business. I would think a good majority of your business could be pulled from a 100 mile radius. Good luck with it!

[markol]

Hello again,

Roger, I must say that I am absolutely impressed by your friendliness, and all the advice that you have been giving us. I have read the emails that you and Max have been exchanging. I am floored. Sorry I stayed out of that conversation. I am rather busy with the day job the last couple of days, so Max took over.

When we started making the site we expected you to be a mean 800lb gorilla smashing up all competition. You could not have turned out to be further from that. Thank you for being so nice, helpful and all around good guy. :)

Starting next week, when we come back from a small vacation, we are going to focus on the local market. I hope Jeff does not get medieval on our behinds. So far we had postings on craigslist, which resulted in quite a few scam attempts. :evil: I suppose this fits right in with your google coment.

Now, back to work.

[Roger Cicala]

Mark,
I (and I know I speak for Kevin at rentcameragear, Lee at ziplens, and Paul at lensprotogo, Jeff at photolensrentals) all believe the rental business is something larger than any of us can possibly handle. We've seen a lot of folks who are very nervous about renting lenses but good reports from other renters coax them in to trying it themselves. There's millions of SLR users out there, only a couple of thousand have ever rented a lens.

We all feel the most important thing for all of us is to make sure that renting gear stays reputable. All of us are photographers and gearheads ourselves, and love getting to spend our day playing with this stuff, talking to people about it, etc. It really is too good to be true, and the only thing we fear is that 'renting lenses' gets a bad reputation.

We are all are new to this business: we help each other out at every turn, send each other customers when we're out of stock, tell each other when we find a good supplier, etc. Its not unusual that when someone starts a "where can I rent lenses thread" one of us lists not only our place, but all of the other places too.

Roger

[pyterps]

I want to say hats off to Roger and all for helping out with this cause. I'm one here in the Wash DC area that rents lenses all the time because I just can't afford to purchase the lenses I rent.

I really like the prices that I see and if you get some BIG primes, CANON of course, then I could see you getting some of my business.

Dave

[blackshadow]

If you have any local pro labs where photographers get their printing done it might be worth putting some fliers up around them. There are some around here where people advertise things like that or the need for assistant photographers etc - just an idea that might help.

I wish we had lens rentals here in Australia at your prices!

[Tomi Hawk]

I believe there's a way to get your website positioned high on search engines, so that when someone does a search on "lens rental" in, say, Google, your site is one of the first ones to show up. I don't know anything about doing it, but I know it can be done.

We are working on advertising to more forums, getting ourselves higher on google, etc.
Just how does anyone do that? I'm curious ..

[markol]

Just how does anyone do that? I'm curious ..

Google is actually very simple. The more sites link to you, the higher you get on the list. The breakdown goes further. The more reputable sites link to you, the higher you get. For example, you would see roger's site in top 10 if you search for "photo lens rental", while we don't even appear in the top 50. That's beacuse Roger has been around for a year, and has bloggers all over the internet exalting his greatness. There are also bloggers who talk about ziplens, lensprotogo, and a few others. Ourselves being very new, with very few places linking to us, we are way down on the list. I could not even find myself unless I search for "borrowlenses".

So, we are encouraging our customers who have already received their orders to write a little blurb about us on their favorite forums.

Thank you for the advice about local photo shops. We are starting to do that this week. So far the one shop I talked with gave me a dirty look and practically threw me out the door. I need to work on my sleazy salesman pitch. :(

[Roger Cicala]

I want to say hats off to Roger and all for helping out with this cause. I'm one here in the Wash DC area that rents lenses all the time because I just can't afford to purchase the lenses I rent.

I really like the prices that I see and if you get some BIG primes, CANON of course, then I could see you getting some of my business.

Dave

Dave, I've got another 500f4 IS and a 600 IS on the way :-)

Mark, that's it entirely - time takes time, as they say. But again, be careful. We've lost a number of lenses to theft, ALL of those "renters" found us through Google. We've never lost a lens to anyone who found us from a forum or was referred by a previous renter. It takes a lot of renting to replace a 100-400 or 85L that isn't coming home. That's why you don't see our name out on the Google search sidebar or places like that. We advertise at a few reputable web pages (like POTN) through Adwords, that's about it.

[Bubble]

congrat on your new business. Just an OT question: How long it will take for you to recover the intial investment? for example, Canon 24-105 sell for $1000. You rent out for ~$200/month. That mean you will need the lens rent out for 5 straight months to recover for the cost of it? Some lens will be on the shelves for a long time while other will be in and out all the time?

[Roger Cicala]

congrat on your new business. Just an OT question: How long it will take for you to recover the intial investment? for example, Canon 24-105 sell for $1000. You rent out for ~$200/month. That mean you will need the lens rent out for 5 straight months to recover for the cost of it? Some lens will be on the shelves for a long time while other will be in and out all the time?

Can't speak for Mark, but its actually more like 16 months for us: lenses are rented an average of 2 weeks per month, they have to go to Canon for cleaning and recalibration every 10-15 rentals, there are losses and damage that require replacement, etc. etc.

[markol]

I can't say how long it will be to pay off a lens at this time. From our original stock, we have 8 lenses that have not been rented at all and are just sitting on the shelf. We have 20+ that have already been rented or are waiting shipment for reservation.

I guess we will know in about a year. At this point, this business is a total money sink. It makes me rather nervous since I dumped my entire savings into it, and about to dump even more. :confused:

[ngineer]

Roger, it's so refreshing to hear a person in business say such things and truly mean them. I've had a great experience with Paul over at LensProToGo, and I'm very pleased with your personal attention for my upcoming rental next week. I used to be one of those people who was gunshy about renting online, but now I've become a major advocate. It's classy people like you that make it a pleasant experience. :)

markol, in reading the language on your website and here on the forum, it's clear that you will provide a great customer service experience and that is the key to getting customers to visit and return.
The Bay Area definitely has a lot of photographers and the rental market is underserved. For instance, the camera shop down the road is easy and cost-effective for single-day rentals, but I'm quite sure I'll be giving you a call for longer-term local shoots.
Hang in there! :)

[Bubble]

yah..that what i thought. I was about to get into this renting lens business since last year but back out since the return rate is not fast enough. I mean if i already a big lens "collection" then that would be fine to rent out but to put out a huge amount to "buy" new inventory is a bit risky. But again, the market still open for South Cal area since only Calumet rent out the lens. :)

[iso]

Add the 200 f1.8 and I will rent it from you !

Also, having a business in the west coast, you should target your local area.
I personnally tend to favor stores on the west coast due to faster shippping delays.

Good luck.

[KirkHMB]

As a peninsula bay area guy, happy to see you're adding to the competition. (For those who say the bay in underserved, I thought we had 3 or 4 locations already, gassers, prosomething, Calument, K&S.)
You need to stand out from them to get some business from the masses, even google makes those guys hard to find. Being away from the city should help some. Using a UPS store as your address could frighten some away ("Can I see it today?") who want to do in person business and see before they decide. Will you make provisions for that, or maybe just mention it so people don't drive by looking for you (did that 20+ years ago, felt like a fool)? Glad to see you have made plans for pick ups for those of us who live nearby.

Have you talked with the only non-Ritz camera store in the neighborhood?

As others have mentioned, exotic glass would be good. Glad you have the Sigma 50-500, want to try before I buy, see you when soccer season starts back up. Will you do a daily rental for locals?

Also, in your specialties, may want to consier the TS lens, imagine it would be usefull to rent not buy since its so pricey.

I like that you rent a flash as well, as I still am using my FD era flashes. Time for me to step into the modern era. Maybe add a decent tripod if you can find a way to ship it.

Another place to advertise might be smugmug, since they are locals also.

Good look, keep the profile up.

[markol]

About the extra gear: We will be making a smallish buying round next week. Expect more Canons, with some exotics in there. We will probably get another copy 70-200 f2.8 IS, as the demand for it is fairly high. We also started a consignment program with a friend who has some unused gear lying around. Expect a couple of fairly decent Nikon lenses soon.

We just started to offer 1 and 3 day rentals to the local pickups just because we save time on shipping. Not all lenses have been enabled for such a pricing quite yet simply because we have not had any time. It's coming.

We decided on the UPS store as our listed location just because I am paranoid. There are tens of thousands of $$ worth of lenses at the house, in neat little boxes, ready for the taking. I would rather not paint a giant bulls eye on the door. Thinking of "wife and kids" here. I am not so worried about this fact scaring people away. It may be an issue for starters, but eventually word will spread that we are legit in every way.

We are also making our introduction to the photography clubs around the area next week. If you want to meet us in person, come to the Central Park Recreation Center in San Mateo on Tuesday 730. We will also swing by the one at Millbrae next Thursday.

Our main attack mode on the B&M competition is brute price war and customer service. We don't have commercial rent to pay since everything is done from a spare bedroom. We don't have employees (yet) and we don't draw a salary (also yet). Our prices are 20% of K&S on weekly rates. Also, from the reviews of that little store, they are staffed by "grouchy old wannabe photographers that always act holier than thou" as one person put it. I am going to pay them a visit this weekend. We are trying to project a much friendlier, more approachable image.

[skifurthur]

It's great to see Roger helping out others, much like he has helped out me. Being completely wet behind the ears in photography, Roger and I exchanged e-mails over and over and his help guided me in the right direction on lens choices.

That is what I look for in any business I deal with...the best customer service and going the extra mile to earn my business. I have rented from Roger a number of times now and he has always over delivered on the service side...getting me a lens on extreme deadline when I needed it.

If you provide service like he does, you will be a success. Good luck with it.

[vmp1968]

I just found your rental business (Google search). I wished you were in Denver Colorado ;)

I just placed an order for a 1 week rental. I have plans on rental some big guns later in the year.

I'm really glad to find a rental place that has new/latest equipment.

Any plans on store in Denver ? There's only 1 store that I know of and they rent older equipment.

Thanks,

[John Mireles]

Hope you're paying use tax on all that stuff! I'd hate to get stuck with the bill + penalties later. The California Board of Equalization makes the IRS look like cute little kittens.

John

[LBaldwin]

Hope you're paying use tax on all that stuff! I'd hate to get stuck with the bill + penalties later. The California Board of Equalization makes the IRS look like cute little kittens.

John

AMEN!!!!

FYI I got to meet MarkoL and his Business partner at the Menlo Park Camera club I was judging, he is a nice guy and it looks like he will get to serve quite a few of the 2500+ camera club members in this area.

His eyes did seem a little shifty though. Especially when he started talkin to the Neighcons posers <vbg>

I used to run a rental department 10 years ago and it is hard work and it's remarkable what some folks will do to gear that is not their own. I wish Borrow Lenses all the success (shameless plug for free rentals ;O

Les

[markol]

Les,

Thanks for the shout out. It was actualyl Milbrae photo club where we met.

We have not had much trouble with the lenses yet. One person returned a copy full of sand that needed cleaning, but otherwise, 80 orders later, we are still getting everything in perfect working order. Not even any barrel scratches so far. I tend to trust people until proven otherwise.

vmp,

Got your order. We will ship it out Monday morning. I used to live in Boulder for 6 years untill a year ago. I think Mike's Camera on Folsom and Perl will rent lenses from what I remember. I still go back there all the time. My parents are in southeast Denver. Will be there in late August actually. Some day, when we have lots of copies of each lens, we are going to open a Denver location too. It is actually a serious plan. Having a central geographic location would save a bundle on shipping. It costs way too much to send lenses to the east coast, and I hate to pass on the cost to the renters.

[John Mireles]

It costs way too much to send lenses to the east coast, and I hate to pass on the cost to the renters.Huh? Don't worry about the cost. Just tell people what it is and let them decide. I have clients where cost really isn't an issue. I've had Fed Ex bills come in at over $500 for rental gear (one way). If I need it - I need it, costs be damned.

I'm also really curious about your use tax situation. Judging from your lack of business sophistication, it sounds like you haven't paid any. Because of the vast amounts of money you're spending on gear, you could quickly get into unpaid tax and penalties in the tens of thousands of dollars.

In case you're not aware, use tax is required for any items that you purchase from out of state. You're not charged sales tax since you bought the stuff from an out of state dealer. But the state of CA expects you to pay your regular 8% (give or take a few points) sales tax rate to the state all the same. They don't call it sales tax, instead it's use tax. A lot of states have this tax by the way and the auditors know that photographers like to buy from B&H so they will look for it when they do their audits.

Something to think about.

John

[P51Mstg]

You'll probably find that USE TAX doesn't apply if you structure it properly.

If the lenses were purchased SOLELY for rental forever until they were thrown in the garbage, then you would definately have to pay USE TAX.

However if you are renting the lenses for a certain period of time and then selling them, then you are in a different situation where they become inventory. SO I buy the lens and then rent it 20 times or 1 year and then sell it. I collect sales tax for the state on instate sales, and prior to that time they were inventory. I think in that situation it could well be that you would not have to pay use tax. The time period could be whatever reasonable time you want it to be, 1 year or 3 years or whatever.......


Mark H

[vmp1968]

Markol,

I grew up in Boulder...small world ;)

I talked to Mike's, but they didn't have the newer IS lenses at the time?

Give me a ring when you're in town...I'll buy you a beer/coffee, etc.

Later,

[CincyShooter]

Roger is Simply THE MAN to listen to, and his business is top notch 100% perfect. Nothing but good things to say about him, be just like him and you will have a great future. Like all, I was nervous about the whole renting, so of course I get the insurance...that is another thing you need to offer if you do go through with this.

[glassandgear]

Roger really is a stand up guy. Being one of the other new rental sites to pop up recently (www.glassandgear.com) I was a bit uneasy at first speaking with the "competition" but it seems like the rental market is really filled with some stand up individuals and companies who have no problem helping each other out. If we had an item that was rented out I wouldn't hesitate to send business to one of the other guys.

CincyShooter - Insurance is tough, no insurance company wants to take that risk at an anywhere near reasonable price. Its certainly something that we hope to offer soon but I know in our case we'll need to be quite a bit bigger before we can.

[markol]

Holly zombie thread. I guess I will respond too and contribute to months old stuff.

Like lensandgear said, insurance is pretty much impossible to find. At least re-insurers are. I have no idea how Roger does it. The prices we were quoted for insurance all have like $1500 deductibles, which makes it unreasonable, given the cost of almost all of our equipment being less than that, and cost of most repair even less so. We are still looking though, and have some semi-promising leads. Perhaps in a few weeks we will roll something out. I know that we have been saying that for the past couple of months. Such is life though. :(

Many thanks to all the renters that have come from this board!

Mark.

[PhotosGuy]

People who use certain credit cards automatically get insurance on the purchase. I wonder if it would work for renting, too? Maybe then you could recover a loss from the customer?

[glassandgear]

Thats a good point about credit cards. I'd imagine that quite a few people don't even realize the benefits that many of them offer. I'll have to look into whether or not credit card companies would cover that sort of thing for our customers. I know that eventually we'll be offering damage insurance, its just a matter of growing large enough that the insurance isn't too much of a hit for us and to much of an expense for our customers.