Help w Tennis Court promo pics for my Community Paper & Web Site

[johnstoy]

Help w Tennis Court promo pics. My Community Paper & Web Site needs representative images of the (3) Tennis Courts...

These pics are with the Canon 24-70mm w 30D.:rolleyes:

Any suggestions for getting the best angle to capture these 3 courts?
http://i93.photobucket.com/albums/l60/stoy17/ScenicTT/IMG_20070617_9999_139.jpg

How is this for an action shot? Any way to get more than one player into a picture and in focus? I also have a 70-200mm 2.8L IS available...

http://i93.photobucket.com/albums/l60/stoy17/ScenicTT/IMG_20070617_9999_117.jpg

[wilzdezign]

a ladder would allow you to get more top down view...

for the action shot, I would see if you can capture one closer to impact of the ball, especially if you want to crop and do not want the car in the background.

[johnstoy]

a ladder would allow you to get more top down view...

for the action shot, I would see if you can capture one closer to impact of the ball, especially if you want to crop and do not want the car in the background.

Good Idea wilzdezign... I was thinking of using the ladder at the swimming pool... might as well take it over to the tennis courts... I did stand in the back of my truck for some shots but couldn't get over the fences...

This is a volunteer project...So I've got some time to work on it...

The action shot's I'll try with the 70-200mm, provided I find some reasonably skilled tennis players ... total beginners would be OK, but just for a few pics...

[dmwierz]

Good Idea wilzdezign... I was thinking of using the ladder at the swimming pool... might as well take it over to the tennis courts... I did stand in the back of my truck for some shots but couldn't get over the fences...

This is a volunteer project...So I've got some time to work on it...

The action shot's I'll try with the 70-200mm, provided I find some reasonably skilled tennis players ... total beginners would be OK, but just for a few pics...

John, have you thought of stitching a panoramic shot for the first one? I'd consider shooting without any players, or with all courts full of serious competitors (a tournament, maybe?), also. I concur with the idea of getting as high above the courts as possible.

For the action, i don't know what you mean by "Any way to get more than one player into a picture and in focus?" Are you trying to stage a shot? The only time you might bet a shot that tight and have more than one player in frame is during a doubles match, and even then players don't normally get that close.

I'd definitely lose the car - in fact, look for the cleanest background available on the courts, and I'd go for a solid backhand shot where you can get the ball, the racquet, and the face all in frame, something like these. Since you're showing off the court, you probably don't want to go too tight.

[dmwierz]

Or go a little wider - you can actually stage a shot like this by having a player run across court and throw the ball to the back corner.

[dmwierz]

Here's an example of a stitched pano I did of 9 shots, handheld (with my back-up 20D and the 17-55 f/2.8 IS), while I was bored after arriving WAY too early for an MLS game last month. You shouldn't need to stitch any more than 3 shots together.

You can do these and not have them look like anything more than a very wide angle shot - in other words, without the odd curved line. I used Stitcher for this pano, but PhotoShop CS2 (and especially CS3) has pretty decent stitching capabilities. I'd imagine you could get a real nice shot of the entire court by stitching 3 or so shots from your 24-70.

I would also choose a time later in the day. The mid-day sun under which your shots were taken is pretty brutal.

[johnstoy]

Thank You Dennis,

I'll do the stitching as the next tennis project...And talk to the parents of the kids so we can stage a tourney...

Dzienkuje Bardzo...

[dmwierz]

Thank You Dennis,

I'll do the stitching as the next tennis project...And talk to the parents of the kids so we can stage a tourney...

Dzienkuje Bardzo...

Ah, Polska, my Mother Tongue. Actually, my mother's tongue was Italian, so OK...Ah, Polska, the Father Tongue...

Actually, I'm covering the MLS Chicago Fire Vs. Team Cracovia (Krakow, Poland) game this Friday, and the local Polish contingent here in Chicago is getting all worked up!

Good luck, and let us see what you come up with.

Dennis

[johnstoy]

Ah, Polska, my Mother Tongue. Actually, my mother's tongue was Italian, so OK...Ah, Polska, the Father Tongue...

Actually, I'm covering the MLS Chicago Fire Vs. Team Cracovia (Krakow, Poland) game this Friday, and the local Polish contingent here in Chicago is getting all worked up!

Good luck, and let us see what you come up with.

Dennis

Sounds great Dennis... I actually saw Cracovia play in Krakow back in the late 1950's before I traveled to the US... I have their autographed team picture, when they visited the States back in the early 1960's...

Best of luck with your team coverage... It's a fast paced game... You know what to do... Hopefully, you'll post some pics here in the Sports Forum or give us a link to your captures...:D

[dmwierz]

John,

Thanks. The big down side to Friday's game is it starts at 8 PM, and the lighting at Toyota Park where the Fire plays isn't the best, even though the park is virtually brand new.

But, it is what it is.

Dennis

[johnstoy]

John,

Thanks. The big down side to Friday's game is it starts at 8 PM, and the lighting at Toyota Park where the Fire plays isn't the best, even though the park is virtually brand new.

But, it is what it is.

Dennis

F2.8 at ISO 3200 is what gets me by in low light theater venues... Obviously, I don't use flash...

The teams will possibly warm up before the game on the field?

I hope it works out for you...

[dmwierz]

F2.8 at ISO 3200 is what gets me by in low light theater venues... Obviously, I don't use flash...

The teams will possibly warm up before the game on the field?

I hope it works out for you...

Yep, I get the warm-ups, but they wear different jerseys for warm-ups a lot of the times which makes the images a bit hinky.

I normally won't go over ISO 1250 for pro work, and this field is ISO 1250, f/2.8 and 1/500s in some places, with pretty nasty shadows and variable lighting. 1/500s is a little slow for the speed these guys play at, but like I said, it is what it is.

Most of the MLS games played in Chicago are night games, or late evening. We have a 6PM start coming up in a couple weeks that will be "almost" a day game. :D . I think the next real day game is in late September.

[Croasdail]

Dennis, I really like your work, but what he has to work with and what you showed are sooooo apples and oranges. Your shots are great, but nothing that could be had at this venue. These community courts are terrible to shoot. I completely agree that you need to watch you backgrounds. They are the single biggest shot killer. The idea of the ladder is a great way to clean up ugly venues by forcing more dramatic angles. John, also take a clue from Dennis' shots and shoot at a better time of day where you will get better colors. If you can pick and choose, don't choose mid day harsh sun light.

[dmwierz]

Dennis, I really like your work, but what he has to work with and what you showed are sooooo apples and oranges. Your shots are great, but nothing that could be had at this venue. These community courts are terrible to shoot. I completely agree that you need to watch you backgrounds. They are the single biggest shot killer. The idea of the ladder is a great way to clean up ugly venues by forcing more dramatic angles. John, also take a clue from Dennis' shots and shoot at a better time of day where you will get better colors. If you can pick and choose, don't choose mid day harsh sun light.

Yeah, Mark, I understand your point, but these are the only tennis shots I have on my hard drive right now :oops:

What's important is to try and get as much "action" in a small amount of space, and I think even with "oranges", one can get some pretty good results. It may take a bit of planning, but if you position yourself properly, and seek out the best background available, I'm almost certain a shot similar to the one above of Justine Henin could be "faked" well enough to make it a compelling promotion for the community center. I've watched the way the real pro's set up their posed action shots, and this is exactly how it is done.

Choose a photogenic player who's wearing a tennis outfit, and have him or her intercept the ball in the back corner/baseline that's tossed by someone else, and set yourself up in a position to photograph it. Be prepared for a couple dozen takes, if needed, but even if it goes this long, this whole thing shouldn't take more than 15 minutes. And, in my experience, a backhand shot, similar to those above, is the most compact type of tennis photo.

I've done this with baseball fielders, and have even gone to the extent of marking the ground with an "X", where I wanted the ball and the player to intercept each other. With outfielders, a "football" throw works. With infielders, grounders are thrown.

For this tennis shot, pre-focus on the "X" to get a head-start, and have someone who can accurately throw the ball bounce it so that it ends up close to the "X" in mid air. Then the player can hit their backhand right in front of you and all you have to do is catch the action. If you are able to, track the player with AI Servo, focusing on their chest.

Shoot with the longest lens that will fit the entire body in frame, and shoot as tight as you can, with a wide open aperture to minimize DOF. This might make the ball come out of focus (notice that in all the shots above except the Henin shot, the ball is OOF), but that should be OK.

Just be sure to choose a location and time of day when/where the sun is lighting the subject's face: some time around 5 PM or even a little later should be good this time of year.

[Croasdail]

Yep... ditto on just about everything. And don't be afraid to shoot across court with a long lens. Particularly if it gets you to be able to using the screening to your advantage. Unfortunately from your panno shot, I don't see any. Bummer. Here is a shot from last year I did for a club where I was able to use these elements to my advantage.

http://www.buzzershot.com/images/0006.jpg

And here is an example using a steep angle from an above angle to clean up the shot. You could use a ladder for this type of shot.

http://www.buzzershot.com/images/IMG_5697.jpg

Any, Dennis has given you some good pointers... angle, background, time of day..... get these all working to your advantage and you'll be in good shape.

[johnstoy]

First, I really need to back up and actually congratulate Dennis on his fantastic captures of celebrities... I actually forgot to take the minute to thank him for some great examples of action shots...

Ive got a 20' folding "Gorilla" ladder with the wide legs, that will be suitable for the desired angle and perspective... The ladder will fit into my P/U truck and I'm just around the corner from the Tennis Courts.

Unlike the Rod Laver Club at Walden On Lake Conroe, TX, where I last took photos of the community amenities back in the early 1980's... There isn't much to work with, other than these three courts and some week-enders using them...

This is a very quiet development with 4000 lots and 2300 homes... apparently, few people use the courts...

You guys are giving me great ammo to work with...

Again, Dennis and Mark...the sample pics, you guys submitted are of excellent composition and great action...

I'll explain to the players that it will take some time to capture the best moment and that I will need to photograph for several minutes, with a good back ground, to capture the best face and poise... also the position of the racket and ball is crucial to a successful picture...

[johnstoy]

Yep, I get the warm-ups, but they wear different jerseys for warm-ups a lot of the times which makes the images a bit hinky.

I normally won't go over ISO 1250 for pro work, and this field is ISO 1250, f/2.8 and 1/500s in some places, with pretty nasty shadows and variable lighting. 1/500s is a little slow for the speed these guys play at, but like I said, it is what it is.

Most of the MLS games played in Chicago are night games, or late evening. We have a 6PM start coming up in a couple weeks that will be "almost" a day game. :D . I think the next real day game is in late September.

I came across a basic Photoshop feature in the "Image" column under "Adjustments" called shadow/highlight... In case you haven't resorted to it, there is great potential with it for modifying low light images... Thereafter, I go back to "Levels" and "Saturation" to bring the image back to a more desireable, contrasty, one with "Pop".

I also stay in the 1250 to 1600 ISO range for 99% of the low light theater venue lighting captures... 1/500th is OK for most rock and country bands...

Lastly, I wanted to share the fact that I learned to play soccer here in the US, in junior high school... I later played in big soccer stadiums at the college level, including a trip to the US Nationals. My 1st cousin Marian Stoj, was drafted by the Cosmos, Minutemen and the Wildcats back in the mid 1970's... Instead he went on to become an eye surgeon... Good luck with the games...

[dmwierz]

Mark,

That high aspect shot is a great image.

It really cleans up the background when you can get high like this. The down side is this eliminates any clue where the shot was taken (this can be a good thing if the background is full of stuff).

I also like your forehand shot, but does anybody EVER look good hitting a forehand? I mean, their off-hand is almost always flying around and their face is usually contorted, and even the most attractive athletes can look really, really odd. The shot below of Djokovic not only makes him look goofy, but it looks like he has something hidden under his shirt.

The only way I have found to not have their entire body all flayed out like in your capture is to tighten the angle like in the shot posted below. On this one, MAN, I wish there was a bigger crowd, but Davydenko got eliminated in this match, and it happened early in the tournament, so the crowds were not that large yet.

Sam, I'm wondering if an angle can be chosen with a recognizable landmark in the background that can be effectively blurred but would still be recognized, like a clubhouse, or something?

Regarding Shadows and Highlights, yep it can be a great tool if not overused. I just mentioned this tool in another thread here:

http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?t=335764

Good luck, and I'm looking forward to seeing what you come up with. This paper is lucky to have somebody like you doing their promotional work for them.

Dennis

[johnstoy]

Thanks again Dennis...

I checked your postings on shadow/highlight out, and got a better idea of what I need to to... It also encouraged me to review my tutorials again.

I like your idea of capturing the player's appropriate body positioning when addressing the ball... What is image worthy composition apparently takes time to capture...

[folville]

If I could make a suggestion to the OP, i would say that he might be able to get something decent if he were to go towards sunset (or sunrise, i guess) and stitch together a vertical panorama as the highly angle and diffused light kisses the net and net posts or anyone who may be playing (who would become a silhouette).

BTW, this thread needs more Federer!

[johnstoy]

If I could make a suggestion to the OP, i would say that he might be able to get something decent if he were to go toward sunset (or sunrise, i guess) and stitch together a vertical panorama as the highly angle and diffused light kisses the net and net posts or anyone who may be playing (who would become a silhouette).

BTW, this thread needs more Federer!

Very good pointer... Early morning is great over by the courts...Possibly Saturday Mornings, there might be real early players around...

Sunsets have potential too, and deserve a spot check at the appropriate time to get some great photos...

Federer sounds good to me too... The more the merrier...

Thanks for the additional ideas folville.

[dmwierz]

I think evening light would be best (I think I said 5 or so, above), and Roger agrees...

[johnstoy]

Thanks for the heads up Dennis...

I have a low sky line from the east (lake side) to greet the sunrise... The late afternoon will be more from the west and that will be the taller trees intercepting and filtering the sun's rays... This will require a serious look at both times of day, for optimal conditions...

Certainly, 5PM will be easiest to find tennis players at the courts... I can sometimes actually hear them from my house... Personally, I prefer the warmer late afternoon lights too.

And thanks for sharing more tennis pro photos... They are very popular with our POTN readers...

[folville]

Thanks for the heads up Dennis...

I have a low sky line from the east (lake side) to greet the sunrise... The late afternoon will be more from the west and that will be the taller trees intercepting and filtering the sun's rays... This will require a serious look at both times of day, for optimal conditions...

Certainly, 5PM will be easiest to find tennis players at the courts... I can sometimes actually hear them from my house... Personally, I prefer the warmer late afternoon lights too.

And thanks for sharing more tennis pro photos... They are very popular with our POTN readers...

Also, thanks for the pics, dmwierz!
I think that the shadows cast by the trees could add a homely, warm feeling to the image, espeically if the sky were lit up in a blaze of deep orange and red. Stitching a panorama may be kind of difficult under such exacting conditions because light changes so quickly at dawn and dusk, but I'm sure you could work some magic.

[johnstoy]

Also, thanks for the pics, dmwierz!
I think that the shadows cast by the trees could add a homely, warm feeling to the image, espeically if the sky were lit up in a blaze of deep orange and red. Stitching a panorama may be kind of difficult under such exacting conditions because light changes so quickly at dawn and dusk, but I'm sure you could work some magic.

These are very good ideas... I'll have more time again this week to pursue more tennis images... Looking forward to it again...:D

[Billo78]

I'd never really thought about the aesthetics of shooting a forehand as opposed to a backhand, but now you mention it the backhand shots do tend to look better.

Here's a few I shot at Wimbledon last year, will be out there later this week for more of the same (if it ever stops raining).

Shots are:

Robredo Forehand (which I think looks pretty cool)
Robredo backhand

ladies to follow...

[Billo78]

And now for the ladies and their respective hands...

Sprem backhand
Safina forehand

[dmwierz]

Billo,

I like your Tommy Robredo forehand and Karolina Sprem backhand, but the backhand shot of Robredo doesn't work for me since he is facing away from the camera (wait until the next game when they change sides, then his backhand/face will be coming towards you) and the shot of Dinara Safina wouldn't even be a keeper since you can't see any of her face nor much of her body, and the shot is OOF, and someone/something white is intruding into the foreground on the left side of the frame (doubles partner? person sitting next to you?). If you were trying to do an isolation shot of Safina's racquet, I would have selected a much higher shutter speed to try and freeze the ball on the racquet, but even then, I'd ask the question "what's the point of isolating the ball and racquet out of context with the rest of her?".

Just my opinion, though.

I've got the matches on TV right now, and it appears to have stopped raining at least for now. We Americans have figured out a way to have at least ONE player survive the first round: have 2 Americans play each other! Go A-Rod!

[johnstoy]

Great analogy Dennis...

From an athletic perspective:
I like the Robredo forehand, and very good body follow through on that particular ball return...

While the Sprem backhand is more of a spontaneous intense "in place" stance and return...

Both of these pics show the different methodology of the game...

While both are returns, a full (step into) follow through was applied in one... and the sharp, confined strength shot, is exhibited beautifully by Sprem...

Great captures... I'd stick with those two as the pics to feature... Thanks for sharing guys...

[Billo78]

Thanks for feedback guys, appreciated. I see your point about the Robredo backhand and him having his back to the camera, I quite like that shots as the background is less cluttered than those with the crowd in view. The Safina is supposed to be a bit abstract, something a bit different, I've got loads of "regulation" shots but this one unusual which is why I like it.

The white patch on the right was someone in the crowd in front, could photoshop it out but haven't got round to, almost adds to the unusual charm of the shot ;)

Here's a few more of Safina. When I shot these it was late in the evening, light was fading and my cheap telephoto's widest aperture at 300mm was 5.6 so they are a little underexposed, I loved shooting her though, she's so intense and does great facials every time she hits the ball. These are a few forehand shots, what do you think?

[Billo78]

And here's my favourite backhand shot of hers, she's a big girl!! Shame about the lineman in the background.

[johnstoy]

I just love it when girls take to sport like this... Safina has placed some extra emphasis on her triceps... Best muscles to work on...they certainly make her biceps look great too...
She reminds me of my college girlfriend (a US Olympic Team Swimmer), just loved to work out with me...

[dmwierz]

I just love it when girls take to sport like this... Safina has placed some extra emphasis on her triceps... Best muscles to work on...they certainly make her biceps look great too...
She reminds me of my college girlfriend (a US Olympic Team Swimmer), just loved to work out with me...

Speaking of triceps, check out these batwings:

[johnstoy]

Yowzza Dennis,

She's so cute, wow... and Maria certainly packs some wonderful strength too...

I think the resistance and opposition the fast ball creates, makes for a strength game too...

Awesome capture...

[folville]

Wow, dmwierz, that is honestly - for reasons beyond your control - one of the most horribly unflattering images I've ever seen of that woman.

:lol:


That aside, I was looking at your SS gallery, and I saw you had a photo of Nadal fist-pumping at the Sony-Ericsson Open, and I wondered about how many times you had opportunities to shooting him doing that.

[dmwierz]

Wow, dmwierz, that is honestly - for reasons beyond your control - one of the most horribly unflattering images I've ever seen of that woman.

:lol:


That aside, I was looking at your SS gallery, and I saw you had a photo of Nadal fist-pumping at the Sony-Ericsson Open, and I wondered about how many times you had opportunities to shooting him doing that.

I have more the 500 shots of Maria Sharapova, and every one of them showing her at the actual point of impact is unflattering! She looks great before max excertion (like below), or after, but not right AT the point of explosion. Many women have this issue. Of course, shooting sports, we ARE photojournalists and not fashion photographers, after all. While I'd guess Maria wouldn't necessarily think the shot above is "flattering", if this was a winner on match point, I'm sure she would think the photo was a good capture.

Guys seem to be able to pull off the point of impact better, like Nadal below. He is a great one to photograph, as he is facially expressive, very athletic, and does the fist pump many times each game/match. The one on my SS page was when he won the match.

[dmwierz]

Although, some women CAN pull it off...:cool:

Serena is an amazing athlete. Having had the chance to "mingle" with the players at a few tournaments (especially the Sony-Ericsson, where the photographer's locker room was located right next to the player's locker room, and between the player's locker room and the entrance to the court), the first thing that impressed me about Sharapova was her height, THEN her attractiveness. The first thing that grabs you about Serena is she is a formidable athlete - not unattractive, mind you. Her sister Venus, shown below her, is ever more ripped, and less muscular (and also lower ranked ;) ).

[folville]

Ah, now this I like. The Williams sisters seem to have a bit more muscle behind the ball than does Sharapova. You're right about the distinction between sports and glamor photography, but I guess I have a slightly construed opinion because I've done mostly high school sports for the last couple years, and I think most of the girls tennis players would kill me if I published a photo like that. ;)

Great contributions; I'm very excited to see some professional tennis here!

[johnstoy]

While driving 250 miles round trip, today I wondered how to answer your earlier posting folville.

...And Dennis says it, as I thought to (respond)... Glamor is dainty, cute, beautiful and makes the cover of Cosmo, Vogue, Bride, Seventeen etc...

Sport is heavy work for all pros... Often, sports pros make it into Glamor publications because they are well poised, slim/trim, often weathered, with that rich natural tan, and they plain ol' look good...

While the beautiful glamorous models are scarcely seen in Sports magazines...

Anyway, it's great to see these pros so hard at work...Thanks for posting guys...

[Billo78]

Dennis, I love that Nadal shot.

Hitting Wimbledon after work tonight to fire off a few rounds, will post a sample here over the next day or 2.

[johnstoy]

Dennis, I love that Nadal shot.

Hitting Wimbledon after work tonight to fire off a few rounds, will post a sample here over the next day or 2.

Mr. Billo78,

You are encouraged to post some of your special examples...

Anyone else with good samples is also encouraged...