Softball action

[tracyjtz]

Critique would be greatly appreciated. I have just been recently asked by a few of the coaches to start shooting the games for some action shots as the most used photographer does not shoot action. I would like to produce the best quality photos for them. Am I on the right track?
I was using 400 ISO - 1000 shutter speed.

[rowdyred94]

Looks good. I know how tough it is to crop tightly for this type of shot, so you might need to do it in PP. There's a bit too much area around her. You might also look for a better backdrop or open the lens a bit. The pole is a bit distracting.

[tracyjtz]

I agree. I was shooting low at that point in the game and got far too much sky - which, I do not like. I think I zoomed in as much as I could. I need to buy an extender....

[JohnEBongo]

Nice shot.....When shooting pitchers, try shooting from the throwing side. I.E. shoot a rightie from the 3rd base side and a leftie from the first base side

[kenyc]

Good start.

KAC

[TiKTaC]

Looks pretty good. We played in a USSSA tournament in Mckinney this past weekend. But sice I was coaching there wasn't enough time to snap a bunch of pictures.

[Redfish]

Think about getting into position to get the players face. THe focus and exposure are great, but you need to get the face/team name on jersey and action into the photo. A great spot to shoot this pitcher woul be from the 3rd base dugout or slightly behind the catcher on the throwing arm side so you can get the pitchers face/expression

good start

Steve

[kenyc]

I've shot a lot of pitchers through the fence from behind home plate. They usually turn out good, or from the pitching side as suggested above. It's always best to get the "action" shots. Just hitting the ball or catching the ball images don't give you a sense of the game. the 2nd baseman tagging a runner sliding into second is much more impactful.

KAC

[tracyjtz]

Thanks for all of the great suggestions. I've actually tried shooting from the 3rd base dugout and the shots didnt seem as good - not a very good angle....but, then I was standing closer to third.....figures. I would like to get behind the catcher though. I think I'll try to do that next time. Tournaments are coming up so I'll give both a go.

[JohnEBongo]

I would like to get behind the catcher though. I think I'll try to do that next time.

This position is where I get some of my best pitcher shots from, and the time to do it is between innings while the pitcher is warming up. Just watch your backgrounds for other players getting into the frame.

[Peter G]

This position is where I get some of my best pitcher shots from, and the time to do it is between innings while the pitcher is warming up. Just watch your backgrounds for other players getting into the frame.

Agree with John. Most of the ASA and USSSA tourneys have contracted photographers with access to the field. If you kinda look like you know what you're doing and belong, you can sneak your way onto the field between inning warmups and get some nice pitcher shots. Just don't get in the way too much and watch yourself for any wild pitches ;)

Here's one I caught at a recent game (Grrrr, the 2B girl in background is my daughter ;) )
http://www.pbase.com/pglobe/image/80321933/large.jpg
Mark III, 70-200 2.8 IS, 1/4000, 3.5

[dmwierz]

You've gotten some great advice here, but I gotta wade in and respond to one comment:

"If you kinda look like you know what you're doing and belong, you can sneak your way onto the field between inning warmups and get some nice pitcher shots. Just don't get in the way too much and watch yourself for any wild pitches?

This is NOT a good idea for a lot of reasons. First of all, if this is a USSSA or ASA tournament and there is an event-approved photographer, that company has liability insurance to allow them to even be on the field, may have paid for the privilege of shooting the event, and may be paying their photographers to be there. Since frequently I "are" one of these guys, I really, really, really don't like it when somebody else just wanders onto the field snapping pictures during an event where I have worked very hard to obtain the contract to shoot. It can take months (maybe even stretching back to the previous year) to get approval to be at these events, and for a lot of these guys, this is their livelihood, not a hobby or a weekend thing.

In addition to this, forget about YOU getting hurt - the liability insurance that event photographers are almost always required to carry is for the possibility of us hurting someone on the field, as in somebody running into you or your equipment. This DOES happen, even between innings.

Any umpire worth their blue (or sometimes red ;) ) uniform will not let you on the playing field anyway.

If the coaches are asking you to shoot their teams, my suggestion is to contact the league administrator and a) find out if there is another "official photographer" for this or any other event, and if not, b) determine what approval you need to be on the field - or better yet, c) stay off the field and shoot from the dugout, over the fence or from the bleachers.

OK, off my soapbox for now...

As for the shooting advice, remember what you've probably read before: "Shoot tight, crop tighter". All the stuff surrounding a pitcher is extraneous and doesn't add much to the shot, especially with kids, as parents just want to see a sharp, well-exposed face, above all else. Also, watch your backgrounds.

You can get some really good shots from the dugout, and not have to go on the field. The first shot below was taken from the dugout "door" nearest the plate. I had field access, but retreated into the dugout because I was shooting a 400 lens and needed a little extra "room".

The second shot was taken from behind and off to the side of the catcher, during warmups, to give another example besides the excellent one Peter gave. Again, though, I was in the capacity of approved event photog at this tournament, and was covered administratively and legally.

You can actually get decent shots through the backstop fence, and avoid all the hassle of dealing with the above issues. Open the lens up all the way, take the lens hood/cap off, get the lens as close to the fence as you can (being careful not to scratch the front element, obviously), and shoot away. In post processing, do an "Auto Contrast" to adjust for the impact of the fence (if any), and you ought to be good to go.

Here is the EXIF data for each image:

Top image:
ISO: 320
Aperture: f/2.8
Shutter: 1/3200
Exposure Bias +1/3

Bottom image:
ISO: 200
Aperture: f/2.8
Shutter: 1/4000
Exposure Bias +1/3

[tracyjtz]

thank you, thank you, thank you for the advice. I've not ventured out onto the field (only shot 2 games so far) - but, have instead shot from either the dugout (both) - over the fence - or right in front of the dugout (both). Because of the entire "not knowing the specific rules" issue I didnt venture where I wanted to. But, now knowing that I can get some good shots through the fence - I'm gonna try it! I REALLY want to get some shots of the pitcher head on....one pitcher in particular, because she is fierce!

I must say, never in my life did I think that I would be shooting softball....and on top of that, actually enjoy it. Now I want to shoot other sports as well.

The shots posted are amazing. Question - generally, what ISO and general shutter speed do you guys shoot baseball/softball? I was using 400 ISO because I didnt want a lot of grain and was mostly shooting 1000 shutter speed and then adjusting the aperature. I didnt get the sharpness that I was really going for and that amazing stop-action that I often see.

[SportsOnFilm]

Dennis has given some great advice - one thing I will add is "watch your backgrounds". The one thing I notice immediately about Dennis' images are the clean backgrounds - no players, umpires, etc. in the frame. Sometimes this can be very difficult to achieve, and you may have to move around until you find a location that will give you the clean backgrounds. Don't be afraid to shoot from a higher vantage point, ie from the top of the bleachers. This can accomplish helping you clean up your backgrounds as well as letting you shoot over a fence.

[kenyc]

thank you, thank you, thank you for the advice. I've not ventured out onto the field (only shot 2 games so far) - but, have instead shot from either the dugout (both) - over the fence - or right in front of the dugout (both). Because of the entire "not knowing the specific rules" issue I didnt venture where I wanted to. But, now knowing that I can get some good shots through the fence - I'm gonna try it! I REALLY want to get some shots of the pitcher head on....one pitcher in particular, because she is fierce!

I must say, never in my life did I think that I would be shooting softball....and on top of that, actually enjoy it. Now I want to shoot other sports as well.

The shots posted are amazing. Question - generally, what ISO and general shutter speed do you guys shoot baseball/softball? I was using 400 ISO because I didnt want a lot of grain and was mostly shooting 1000 shutter speed and then adjusting the aperature. I didnt get the sharpness that I was really going for and that amazing stop-action that I often see.

:) Tracy this is great. I know exactly what you are feeling, I was there about 3 years ago. My daughter is not playing this past year, and I miss being on the field and shooting the games. I have recently shot some of her Ultimate Frisbee though and that was fun as well.

The thing you'll find, despite the "rant" above, is that if you talk to the umpires before the game you can typically shoot from the field if you follow their rules/requirements....and yes even during tournaments. Most of the tournaments I've shot have no such thing as a "official" photographer. Now where you get to the regional levels I'm sure they get a bit more finicky. :)

The pitcher shots you desire can be some of the best, pitchers are each unique and have their one quirks which can be interesting to capture and interesting for them to see, if they have never seen it. I have been told that my sequential shots of various pitchers have helped them to see what they are doing and use it to get better. And if you can get some of those action shots they can be pretty impressive as well.

Good luck and I'll look forward to seeing more of your work.

KAC

[dmwierz]

Tracy,

I've added the exposure data to the shots I posted.

I was using 400 ISO because I didnt want a lot of grain

You're shooting a Canon, not a Nikon ;) - seriously, "grain", which is called noise in the digital world, doesn't even begin to rear its ugly head until ISO gets up to 1600 and above. During the daytime, there is no reason for you to ever go above ISO 800, but I recommend shooting Aperture Priority (Av), and selecting an ISO that will give you consistent shutter speeds > 1/2500.

Stopping the action is cool, but there are times when motion blur is great too, such as panning or when you're trying to show the inference of movement.

The thing you'll find, despite the "rant" above, is that if you talk to the umpires before the game you can typically shoot from the field if you follow their rules/requirements....and yes even during tournaments. Most of the tournaments I've shot have no such thing as a "official" photographer. Now where you get to the regional levels I'm sure they get a bit more finicky.

If you think that was a RANT Kenny, you've lived a sheltered life, but more importantly, you've missed a good chunk of my point.

OK, so the umpires allow you on the field (first of all, as a former umpire myself, any ump allowing somebody on the field of play during a game who has no official capacity and no real reason to be there would not be an umpire for very long - the league admin would see to it, if not the Supervisor of Umpires) , but whose butt is in a sling if something goes wrong? Not the ump's - yours and the league administrator/BOD ED's, that's who.

If everybody followed your advice across the country we'd have MWAC's and DWAC's (Moms and Dads With A Camera) wandering all over little league and pony league ball fields.

Sorry, folks, parents and fans belong in the stands and behind the fence, not on the field. Just because somebody forks over the a couple thousand bucks to buy a Digital Rebel XT and a 70-200 f/2.8 lens doesn't make them a sports photographer, doesn't make them immune to liability, doesn't teach them where they can and cannot go on the field, nor does it give every DWAC/MWAC the right to roam the field at will or to sweet talk their way over the fence. If they let you on the field, then they have to let Jim on the field, and if they let Jim on the field, then what about Sally and once Sally has access, then how can you keep Cindy from coming down? etc., etc.

And if you think the above scenario is extreme, think about how inexpensive DSLR's have become, and how many people today own DSLR's vs. 5 years ago and how many of these fancy themselves as sports photographers? What's it gonna be like 5 years from now?

It is more than possible to get very good photos and not be on the field. That's how many of us started out, anyway. Be smart.

OK, Nomex suit on, "rant" over...

[Peter G]

Shoot, it was my comment in an earlier post that caused the hijack of Tracy's post. Tracy, I apologize for it taking this route. I've been a coach and league administrator for many years and should've known better than to take advantage of a high dollared camera and positioned myself on the field. Trust me, I've been that same person who has also whisked those same violators from our games.

Dennis, thanks for reminding me that a camera does not give me liberty to impose on a game and take pics from the field. Again, my philosophy has always been to leave the game to the boys and girls that participate w/o distraction. Again, thanks for the reminder Dennis.

[kenyc]

.......


If everybody followed your advice across the country we'd have MWAC's and DWAC's (Moms and Dads With A Camera) wandering all over little league and pony league ball fields.

........

......

David I hesitated even posting, because I could see this coming. You called it a "Rant" yourself that's the only reason I used the word. :) (SORRY, After rereading I see you call it "on your soapbox" my bad)

Believe what you want, say what you want, but I think you are taking a "defending my territory" attitude as many pro photographers do when addressing those photographers who are serious but have no intent on making money from their work. I agree parents should generally not be on the field taking snapshots but that is NOT what I'm talking about here and i hope you know that.

I stand by what I said, if you are professional in what you are doing and approach it correctly any photographer has as much right to be on the field as you do regardless of pro or not. It may be different in your part of the country, but as I said I did this for three years here in Colorado and never has a problem with umpires, coaches, parents or league officials. And I know many others who post in this forum have had the same experience as I.

KAC

[dmwierz]

Kenny -

"but I think you are taking a "defending my territory" attitude as many pro photographers do when addressing those photographers who are serious but have no intent on making money from their work. "

Holy cow! What if I walked into your place of work, found your boss, convinced him/her I was qualified to do your job, told him/her I was willing to do all your work, and said I have "no intent on making money" in return for my efforts - you think he/she would they hire me for free? Or more accurately, what if I just showed up and started doing your job, acting like I belonged there, and then gave whatever results I obtained to your boss, and didn't charge him/her for them?

If you are serious, and if you are good, you should be getting paid for what you are doing, otherwise in my book, you are probably neither. What I know for sure is the market will pay and will pay fairly well for good youth sports photography.

My point is, for some of us, this is our job, Kenny, not our hobby. It's how we feed our families. It's not something we can do when we want to, one or two nights every couple of weeks, and the rest of the time return to our real life.

if you are professional in what you are doing and approach it correctly any photographer has as much right to be on the field as you do regardless of pro or not.

I must have missed this lesson in 8th grade Civics class when we were going over the Bill of Rights. You don't have the "right" to be on the field any more than I do, Kenny, or any more than anyone else does. When I shoot on the field, I have received permission from the appropriate authorities to be there, but it is still not my right. When I don't have permission (as it was when I was first starting out), I shoot over the fence, through the backstop, stand on a ladder on the other side of the fence, etc., which is what I strongly suggest everybody else does until they are ready to go pro (which, by the way, according to Webster's online dictionary, is defined thusly: "A professional works to receive payment for an activity ").

Sorry to be so blunt, but you opened this can of worms. Now I'll crawl back in my cave to seek the evening's nourishment.

[tracyjtz]

I, for one, don't care where I'm at....as long as I can get some great shots.

[dmwierz]

I, for one, don't care where I'm at....as long as I can get some great shots.

Tracy,

Sorry for taking the bait like that. I should know better by now. I hope you've retained enough of the value of this thread to help you out. If you'd like, feel free to PM me with any other questions you might have.

Dennis

[kenyc]

I, for one, don't care where I'm at....as long as I can get some great shots.


Exactly.

KAC

[kenyc]

Kenny -


Holy cow! What if I walked into your place of work, found your boss, convinced him/her I was qualified to do your job, told him/her I was willing to do all your work, and said I have "no intent on making money" in return for my efforts - you think he/she would they hire me for free? Or more accurately, what if I just showed up and started doing your job, acting like I belonged there, and then gave whatever results I obtained to your boss, and didn't charge him/her for them?

If you are serious, and if you are good, you should be getting paid for what you are doing, otherwise in my book, you are probably neither. What I know for sure is the market will pay and will pay fairly well for good youth sports photography.

My point is, for some of us, this is our job, Kenny, not our hobby. It's how we feed our families. It's not something we can do when we want to, one or two nights every couple of weeks, and the rest of the time return to our real life.



I must have missed this lesson in 8th grade Civics class when we were going over the Bill of Rights. You don't have the "right" to be on the field any more than I do, Kenny, or any more than anyone else does. When I shoot on the field, I have received permission from the appropriate authorities to be there, but it is still not my right. When I don't have permission (as it was when I was first starting out), I shoot over the fence, through the backstop, stand on a ladder on the other side of the fence, etc., which is what I strongly suggest everybody else does until they are ready to go pro (which, by the way, according to Webster's online dictionary, is defined thusly: "A professional works to receive payment for an activity ").

Sorry to be so blunt, but you opened this can of worms. Now I'll crawl back in my cave to seek the evening's nourishment.

Well I did not open "this can of worms" it started with your misguided attempts at telling people what they can and can't do. Let me just say simply. I would welcome you to do my job if you think you can. Many do and some even do it for free (Open Source Software). As far as getting paid, that is my choice regardless of skill level. As far as rights, when I get the okay from the umpires who are in charge of the field I have the same rights as you to be there. End of story.

Enjoy your dinner.
KAC
P.S. sorry to hijack the thread, but as I said I can't let this sort of misleading and misguided information go unanswered. There are those of use who love photography for what it is with no intent to make money from it. I took photos of every softball game in both Competitive and H.S. for the past three years, for my daughters team and for associated teams. I posted images on my website from all the games for the teams to see and enjoy. They loved it and I loved it, it was good for all concerned. And I may just do some more because I enjoy it so much and no I won't charge for it.

[kenyc]

Tracy,

Sorry for taking the bait like that. I should know better by now. I hope you've retained enough of the value of this thread to help you out. If you'd like, feel free to PM me with any other questions you might have.

Dennis

And Tracy keep up the great work, you are off to a great start, I look forward to more of your work regardless of where you shoot from or whether you charge for it. :) That is what I enjoy, seeing the shots and seeing them improve and helping if I can.

Enjoy,
KAC

[tracyjtz]

thanks again you guys. I've learned quite a bit just from this thread already. I'll use some of it the next time I get the opportunity. Now I've got to go read all the other sports threads....:)