Canon Digital Rebel Hacked Into A Pseudo-10D

[shelbix2020]

"Now, a new hack that restores a previously hidden menu along with a few additional tricks has added nearly all of those 10D features to the Rebel, with an arguably superior user interface to boot."

- http://slashdot.org/articles/04/06/02/004258.shtml?tid=137&tid=164&tid=185

crazy ... Id save that $500 and just get the Rebel. Why do companies do this? Why cant they just make 2 different products, is it so hard?

excuse me if this has been posted before...

[Cadwell]

It's not hard... but it's a LOT cheaper to produce two identical hardware devices and then limit the "lower end" product in software.

[ssim]

I think it's interesting that someone took the time to figure this out. Howver, this is akin to using bootlegged software and I certainly wouldn't support that.

I'd love to be a fly on the wall the first time someone running the hack takes their camera to a Canon service center.

[tommykjensen]

I think it's interesting that someone took the time to figure this out. Howver, this is akin to using bootlegged software and I certainly wouldn't support that.

I'd love to be a fly on the wall the first time someone running the hack takes their camera to a Canon service center.

Apparently that already has happened and on dpreview there are people saying Canon does not care they just service the 300D anyway.

[blinking8s]

i've always been scared to attempt any hacked software for my 300d. Ive found several different packages in the short time I have had my camera and they have all come very highly recommended by people who seem to know more than i do. I know that I had to save for a LONG time to get my camera, and it would suck if something went wrong and Canon told me they couldn't help at all.

If canon chose to sell the firmware upgrade for say $100 I would probably choose that over a hack any day. But my curiousity its eating at me from the thought of unlocking some secret features...

[ssim]

Apparently that already has happened and on dpreview there are people saying Canon does not care they just service the 300D anyway.

Well then I certainly hope that Canon wakes up and invalidates the warranty on the cameras that are hacked. This isn't doing anything but harm to the majority of Canon owners that live by the rules.

Yep, I feel pretty strongly about this. :!: :!:

[karusel]

Ha! Some time ago there was a thread where numerous people were saying it can't be done, well here it is. Still, I like my 10D better than any kind of plastic rebel. It's not just the functions, I like it. Like a teddy bear. Um.. gotta go...

[tommykjensen]

Apparently that already has happened and on dpreview there are people saying Canon does not care they just service the 300D anyway.

Well then I certainly hope that Canon wakes up and invalidates the warranty on the cameras that are hacked. This isn't doing anything but harm to the majority of Canon owners that live by the rules.

Yep, I feel pretty strongly about this. :!: :!:

Uh oh You better keep that opinion here and not post it on dpreview :wink: People there will be mad at You :wink:

As You can see from my signature I have the 300D and I am quite happy with it. I don't currently miss the functions that the hack unlocks and I knew what I bought when I bought the 300D. I am not willing to risk my $1500 investment on a hack that nobody really know 100%. Besides some day I rather want to buy the MK II or III and until then I am happy with my 300D.

[Digital Prophet]

If you ask me, and noone is asking me, I don't think that this is going to hurt sales of the 10D all that much.

The vast majority of Rebel users are not going to hear about this firmware hack. And of the few that do, alot of them are going to just say no for fear of invalidating thier manufacturer/extended warranties. And then there will be the even small number of people (like me) who have no fear of the warranty monster, but don't want to screw thier cameras up. And finally there will be the small percent of the small percent that actually do it and live happily ever after.

It's just like "bootlegged movies" [scary ghost voice]oooooooohh[/scary ghost voice] The movie industry wants you to believe that EVERYONE is downloading SpiderMan 2 and that the theaters are just empty shells with nothing but lonely ushers and three week old popcorn because NOONE goes to the movies. When in reality very very few people download movies (as a population percentage) and tickets sales reach new highs almost every single year.

I think Canon is doing the best thing it can by just ignoring the matter. Any campaign against the "hack" is just going to mak more and more people aware of it and want to try it. Can you say RIAA?

But like I said ... that is just if you're asking me.

- Digital Prophet -

[shelbix2020]

If your wondering, I DO NOT have a Rebel or a 10D .... but Id like to now! :twisted:

[roanjohn]

I don't see why its such a bad thing.

I mean it sure is "enter at your own risk" sorta thing but the things Canon disabled from the Rebel really "SUCKED!!!". I mean, FEC??!!! Even the G3 and S45 has the feature. And what about forced AI focus in creative modes?? How can you be creative when your camera refocus after you achieve focus?? Little gripe like these (though doesn't affect my photography in general) made me wish there was a better alternative.

And now there is!!! Thanks Wasia.

I'm sure that Canon is well aware of the hack and there is nothing they can do about it. It'll be interesting how they respond to it with the next Rebel upgrade.

R01

[ssim]

I don't see why its such a bad thing.


R01

I'll admit that I'm having a tough time letting this subject go.

There is a better alternative and it's called the 10D. You are out buying a Ford Focus and then want to turn it into a Mustang at no expense to yourself. If you want those features that you feel are necessary in the Rebel, then purchase the 10D. Hell I'd like to be able to turn my 10D into a MK II but I can't so I'm buying one.

[Tom W]

Well, it certainly makes sense that they would share a good deal of hardware, minus the obvious features such as the pentaprism and magnesium alloy body and that kind of thing. But the sensor, focus system, and probably much of the electronics are the same. This isn't unusual, and I'm still surprised that some people find it upsetting that any manufacturer would "defeature" a lower-priced product. That's the norm, not the exception.

When you buy a car, it comes prewired for just about every option that is available on that model whether you buy that option or not. Everything is designed to make it as universal as possible since this is the most cost-effective way of building them. Once you buy that car, you can use that wiring to add your own fog lights, auto-dimming mirrors, or whatever feature you want with aftermarket products. I doubt if its that much different for cameras.

Granted, modular pieces like memory chips or other things that can easily be added or subtracted may be left out on the less expensive model, but I'm pretty sure that Canon would try to keep the unique stuff down to a minimum.

So yes, perhaps a software solution for gaining some 10D features on the Digital Rebel is probably possible. And I don't worry too much about anybody making such a change to their own camera, or discussing such changes freely so long as nobody is stealing Canon's patented knowledge for commercial purposes. I mean, its their camera - they can do what they please with it.

[Tom W]

I forgot to add the important stuff - Do this at your own risk!

[roanjohn]

There is a better alternative and it's called the 10D.

I have a 10D..........without the magnesium black body ;-)

Ro1

[tommykjensen]

There is a better alternative and it's called the 10D.

I have a 10D..........without the magnesium black body ;-)

Ro1

Wauv, did the hack really give You a 9 image buffer? :wink:

[roanjohn]

There is a better alternative and it's called the 10D.

I have a 10D..........without the magnesium black body ;-)

Ro1

Wauv, did the hack really give You a 9 image buffer? :wink:

I'll wait for Wasai to answer that for you :twisted:

Truly though, everybody who downloaded this hack is having a party.

.......................so.........................

If you can't beat 'em - join 'em.........Yipee!!! (throwing confetties)

Ro1

[tommykjensen]

There is a better alternative and it's called the 10D.

I have a 10D..........without the magnesium black body ;-)

Ro1

Wauv, did the hack really give You a 9 image buffer? :wink:

I'll wait for Wasai to answer that for you :twisted:

Truly though, everybody who downloaded this hack is having a party.


Yes and good for them and You as long as everybody is happy.

Be sure to let us know if Wasia manages to cram in that 9 image buffer to the hack then You can count me in party too :lol: :lol:

[karusel]

What matters is that you're happy with your camera. I bought mine, love it, and don't look back. Have no need for that I just enjoy taking the shots.

[mson]

Why are people comparing "hacking" a 300D to downloading a movie or music? If you d/l a movie you are getting a product for free. Isn't it more like over clocking a PC? I've never seen anyone say "If you over clock, your stealing"

[shelbix2020]

mson, your almost there ... its like buying Photoshop then DLing all the Filters. Its kind of retarded, you buy a Rebel and stiff the company a few pennies to upgrade some features you may or may not need, or want for that matter. :roll:

[alsmith]

So are you saying that the hardware and software are a package deal? Isn't it more like buying a IBM PC and running Linux on it instead of the windows that came with it? You still bought the PC with windows but you are just choosing to run someone elses software?

I downloaded the file to take a look but it is a .rar format and I can't seem to unpack that file type... oh well if anyone has it unpacked please send it to me and I will do some tests and let you knwo the results. (I happen to have a 300D kickin around that i don't mind testing on)

[4walls]

This HACK is relatively safe. The guy that did it explained exactly what
he did (simply changed a couple of one bit values) to turn on the extra
menus.

The UNDO is simple, go to Canon's website and download the latest firm-
ware and install overtop the HACKED version.

NOT ALL OPTIONS WORK on the 300D even though the menu is there for
them, FEC is a good example. However, a few of the options do work
as intended.

Use at your own risk goes without saying and check the discussion at
www.DPReview.com for more info. There is a lot of discussion there about
this HACK.

[robertwgross]

It's not hard... but it's a LOT cheaper to produce two identical hardware devices and then limit the "lower end" product in software.

Canon 10D and Digital Rebel are not identical hardware. Similar, but not identical.

---Bob Gross---

[John_T]

Well, the way I see it, if I buy any device or appliance I buy with it the right to use any feature or function it is capable of, and to make any adjustments or corrections that satisfy my use of said device or appliance, though under certain circumstances at my own risk with no peril to others.

If I buy a new motherboard for my computer, I have the right to open the BIOS and enable or disable any feature or function, and to change settings or timings to my satisfaction and delight, even if it crashes my computer. If I don't know how to do this myself, I have the right to have someone do it for me, whether for free or for pay.

I don't see this 300D " hack" as a hack at all, rather as an instrument to access the camera's BIOS to enable features and settings contained in the camera which were paid for but not enabled. I see no legitimate, ethical of moral argument to the contrary.

If you want to get upset about something, get upset at Microsoft, Dell, Compaq, HP and a pile of others who do everything they can do to inhibit you from doing anything you have a legitimate right to do yourself, in order to get you to pay them for it, or keep the ring they put in your nose to pull you around by to do everything in such a way that they, rather than you, benefit to the maximum. Hmm?

[timmyquest]

Apparently that already has happened and on dpreview there are people saying Canon does not care they just service the 300D anyway.

Well then I certainly hope that Canon wakes up and invalidates the warranty on the cameras that are hacked. This isn't doing anything but harm to the majority of Canon owners that live by the rules.

Yep, I feel pretty strongly about this. :!: :!:

Uh oh You better keep that opinion here and not post it on dpreview :wink: People there will be mad at You :wink:



I'm not mad, but i sure as hell think he's wrong. If i buy a peice of hardware i should have the right to do whatever the heck i want to it. If i send my camera in because it keeps f'ing up my cf cards, or wont boot up, etc...thats differnt. But if it is a problem completly unrelated to the software then they better service it.

[alsmith]

so anyone have the new hack you can email me to try in my 300D?

[Tom W]

I'm not mad, but i sure as hell think he's wrong. If i buy a peice of hardware i should have the right to do whatever the heck i want to it. If i send my camera in because it keeps f'ing up my cf cards, or wont boot up, etc...thats differnt. But if it is a problem completly unrelated to the software then they better service it.

Realistically, the only way that the hack can void the warranty is if the problem that you want fixed under warranty can be attributed to the hack. IOW, if the hack caused the problem, then the repair won't be covered. Otherwise, it will be covered as always.

[shelbix2020]

alsmith - download winRAR

http://download.com.com/3000-2250-10007677.html

[Conk]

I think the word "Hack" gives this a false image. Does that mean that all those people who have tweaked and reprogrammed the computers in their cars for better performance have violated a copyright? I don't think that this is any different than any other electronic, computerized gadget that has an ability to have it's software updated.
As far as I'm concerned, the so called "Hack" is just and aftermarket software update that holds no guarantee to the user as it is a free update. The only way I see a problem is if the author of the software sold the product and infringed on copyright laws.
Pirated? No way!
As far as having to take the camera in for warrenty, the original firmware can be reinstalled.

[Sketcher]

Anyone recall a 4GB microdrive ala Muvo? For a time, you could buy a Muvo version which offered up a completely functional OEM 4GB Hitachi Microdrive. Creative (or Hitachi... somebody) finally decided it didn't like people buying the Muvo for half the cost of the part stock Microdrive and started hardwiring proprietory connections to that drive.

People, Canon's not stupid. If they have a problem with 300D service repairs they'll charge for the service. Only Canon firmware is supported and even then it's supported within parameters; so thinking that people who 'hack' their 300D are cheating the system is a bit short sighted.

Perhaps I give Canon engineering too much credit but I'm willing to bet their design team had already discussed the MOD community interest in an opportunity like the 300D. How could you consciously make a product using another products' base architecture and not wonder about the potential or possible limitations of the end product? If anything, I would wager that at least a few people in the Canon design team had bets placed on how long it would take for 'hacks' to be written and just how far people could take them. Canon's not losing money on 10D sales ala hacked 300D's. Canon's benefitting from a niche market of people who recognize the value of the 10D/300D architecture and what can be done with a lower cost, tweaked camera.

People who are serious about needing/wanting the 10D's features don't consider the 300D. But if you have a 300D and don't mind being adventurous (and willing to risk botching a nice camera) there's a lot that can be done to 'enhance' the feature set to quite closely match certain features of the 10D. Nothing wrong with any of it in my book. You own the product; just don't go crying to Canon if you screw it up. Personally, the only distaste I've found has been the past posts from those 300D owners who feel Canon owes them modified firmware or enabled versions. The feature/spec sheet is for the having. If you have buyers remorse because you didn't read the details, that's your own fault. If you simply couldn't afford the 10D, that still doesn't entitle you to something you didn't buy. If there's a legal piece of homegrown software which allows you to enhance the functionality of something you own and you're willing to take responsibility for non-warranty repair or worse; more power to you.

BTW, the niche crowd knows how to unpack .rar files and how to find mentioned downloads. If you're needing someone to hold your hand through those two steps; I'd venture to say that your next question is going to be something along the lines of "well, I tried it but now xxx isn't working - how do I put the original firmware back on?". If you don't have the wherewithal to dig up the information from the plentiful sites which divulge such - you shouldn't be attempting the mod in my opinion. Google 101 with a simple search for "300D hack" will dig up more links to information regarding the MOD than you have time to browse. But, everyone has to start somewhere I suppose.

Something else to consider about production manufacturing is that product performance per part can vary within a batch process. Higher performing parts are culled into one batch and lower performing parts into another batch. Both batches can be used for rated purposes and product performance can be counted on. There's nothing prohibiting a part from one batch working in another batches application; just that the part hasn't been certified for that app so performance may or may not be a reasonable expectation. It'd be a significant cost advantage if the lower performing parts could still be used in additional manufacturing and a completely different manufacturing and validation process isn't then required. It's smart manufacturing. AMD Corp, Mushkin, Intel and just about any technology manufacturer you can think of make excellent use of design performance ratings of that sort. Canon isn't cheating anyone by dumming down the feature set of the 300D; they have every right to do with their product as they choose. They could also be using batch parts which don't quite meet 10D operational specs but fall well within 300D operating specs.

AMD Corp in particular counts on the MOD community to exploit the potential of their product. In fact, nearly every chipset release contains a serial edition which is found by the MOD community (sometimes even communicated by AMD) to yield better performance and in many cases you can actually buy an AMD processor via published spec to ensure you're getting one which has MOD potential. Warranty supported by AMD? Certainly not. AMD aware that their chipset is the MOD communities chipset of preference? You betcha.

[Big_B]

THe hack is the equivalent of upgrading your operating system without owning the appropriate licence. That said, I'd have no hesitations in doiing it.... but hey, what do I know? My camera hasn't even got an autofocus :(

[pradeep1]

Maybe the word hack should have been originally posted a "enabling hidden features" thread. Then all these technophobes will stop making this into something it is not. If a 300D was on my "to get list" I'd buy it today, play with it for a week, and then apply the "hack". Why not? If you are technically savvy enough to do it and then change it back to original setting if anything goes wrong, what's the moral and ethical problem with that? It's not like the "hack" is going to make your camera generate excess heat, leak glue, or wear out the internals faster. It just enables software features that were already present. This type of "hacking" is done in virtually all products, including computers, cars, electronic equipment, game consoles, GPS devices, etc. I think many manufacturers will intentionally enable their products to be "hacked" so that the early adopters and technophiles will buy their product and then recommend it to all of their non-tech friends and family. That is what I did when AMD released their first overclockable chips. I've purchased many AMD processors and also recommended them to friends, even if I did not overclock their machines.

On a side note, Let me tell you a related story. In India, a poor country if you don't already know, trucking is a major way of moving items around the country, as here in the USA. Trucks are overloaded beyond their stated weight limits. Yes, this tears up roads and makes things messy, but it is a fact of life and no amount of enforcement has been able to change this fact that trucks are typically overloaded by 50-100% over government capacity. So we have all these trucks getting overloaded and then all of a sudden, axles start breaking and people are getting killed left and right. The roads system is getting better, truckers are moving faster, and with all the right combinations, their trucks are now failing to take the load. Tata Engineering, an Indian company, saw this and designed their trucks to better standards. So now they have a truck that can be "overloaded" 2.5X government road standards. But their trucks are still "officially" rated at the 1X government standard. So now truckers will preferentially buy these trucks because 1) they can be overloaded as before and 2) the axle won't break and kill the driver and others on the road.

Tata did nothing wrong. They embraced a large "niche" market of unscrupulous truckers and made the roads safer for regular folks. The trucks are still overloaded the same amount as before, so Tata putting up a 2.5X safety factor did not make everyone overload by 2.5 or 3.5X. The trucks carriage and assembly is still the same size, so overloading is as normal 1.5 to 2X.

But by this small piece of thinking, Tata enabled their trucks to be "hacked" and basically took over the entire Indian truck market. Imagine that. A billion people being supplied by Tata trucks. Of course later competitors did the same thing, but Tata got a lot of "love" from many parts of the community by this action, and of course, they are one of the richest companies in India.

I would not be surprised if Waisa was a Canon employee or someone put up by Canon to release the hack of their 300D. How else will they tide sales over until the next announcement with the Nikon D70 nipping on their heels?

Just some thoughts...

[shelbix2020]

I dont think anyone that "hacks" their camera is going to take it in for service anyways.... Thats like a "hacker" taking their computer in to be serviced by Dell :lol: even if they did, youd get charged for reloading the firmare no matter what... and they SHOULD get charged.

Its not really a big deal, if you really want every feature of the 10D and you want a metal body .. then buy it. But if your like me and cant even afford a digital rebel, then I WOULD "upgrade" it .. why not? whos going to stop me? I payed for it, I can do what I like .... if I wanna take it apart and put another lense in there or whatever, so be it, my problem now...

... how do you "hack" a truck anyways?

[blinking8s]

i always wonder if i will really regret not getting a 10d, but by the time i am a good enough photographer to really be over a 300d, the next generation of dSLR's from canon will be out...so I dont really worry about it, the buffer and mirror lock would be fun and useful, but it really wouldnt really help me learn...


anyways, in the meantime i can order a crapload of lenses and practice practice practice and wait for the next generation to come out...