10D or D70. Let me have it straight

[TomC]

Hey guys. I really need some input. I've read the reviews, etc. and blah blah. I posted something similar to this on the Nik*& forum. Tell me straight, why should I buy the 10D over the D70? I realize this will be subjective since this is the Canon forum, but thats what I want. I'm very split on which one to buy. PLease help me decide.

TIA,
TomC

[nosquare2003]

I believe that you have read enough reviews for the strength and weakness for both camera. But you have to consider the whole camera system rather than the camera body alone. You may upgrade the camera body but there's no need to "upgrade" good lenses. Mind you, Canon is much better than Nikon in higher grade Digital camera body.

Nikon produces great lenses (and so does Canon). IMHO, the cost of Canon lens is lower. For example, a Canon consumer zoom 28-135mm does not cost you much but you have Image Stabiliser + USM.

However, I'd say Nikon has an edge in super wide angle. They have 12-24mm lens (not for film camera) but Canon doesn't have it. Canon users has to use 3rd parties lens for such a wide angle lens.

[CoolToolGuy]

Chances are good that whichever you choose, you will stick with that brand because of your subsequent lens purchases. So think a little bit about the lenses. I'll admit I am a Canon bigot, but I don't think that is a bad thing. Nikon glass is very bewildering to me - manual, AE, AF, DX, if you try to buy it used, how do you know what will work on your camera. Canon's selection of lenses is excellent, and ALL EF lenses (Canon brand) will work on the 10D (with the lone exception of the EF-S Drebel kit lens).

Hope this helps.

[Marky UK]

Hello Tom,

How will you fit Canon lenses to a N*kon D70 :)

If you have no lenses, and are buying your first DSLR, then not an easy choice.

Dont go over to the dark side, stay with us and buy a Canon, you know you want to :)


Mark.

[TomC]

Hello Tom,

How will you fit Canon lenses to a N*kon D70 :)

If you have no lenses, and are buying your first DSLR, then not an easy choice.

Dont go over to the dark side, stay with us and buy a Canon, you know you want to :)


Mark.

I'm sorry :D . I should have been more clear in my original post.. This is my first. I have no lenses so I dont have have a previous commitment to either.

On another note, I have held and shot both at a Ritz camera store. I definately like the build of the 10D vs. the D70. No comparison, in fact.

Anything else???

[TomC]

Chances are good that whichever you choose, you will stick with that brand because of your subsequent lens purchases. So think a little bit about the lenses. I'll admit I am a Canon bigot, but I don't think that is a bad thing. Nikon glass is very bewildering to me - manual, AE, AF, DX, if you try to buy it used, how do you know what will work on your camera. Canon's selection of lenses is excellent, and ALL EF lenses (Canon brand) will work on the 10D (with the lone exception of the EF-S Drebel kit lens).

Hope this helps.

Thanks for your input. That is a very valid point. And one of which I was looking at just yesterday. Canon does seem to be a little more straight forward in their 'tagging' of their lenses.

[karusel]

10D. Canon simply has better lens, plus what CoolToolGuy said.

[dwc]

I went with the D70 for Speed and feel over the Drebel, but I loved the 10D. The price for the body alone with no lens and 1.5 year old camera to a new one is why I went with the new Nikon. 8)

You have to look at the fact that Canon was ahead of Nikon at 6.3MP and decent speed when the 10D came out. Plus they will be the next to release something great around $2k or less. :D

I got a fast 6.1MP with a 18-70mm f/3.5-4.5 and a 80-200mm f/2.8 for $2100 with out tax. I'm very happy my built in flash blows away and DSLR for under $3k. Speed wise faster than to 10D's I've tried.

Scott W.

[roanjohn]

You won't go wrong with either.

Currently, the D70 will give you the best bang for you buck in terms of feature set and performance.

In the long run though..........Canon "quality" glass will put a smile in your wallet when compared to thier Nikon counterparts.

Oh.......and Canon has ISO 100 :-)

...........and its compatible with BIG ED!!!

It's all up to you!!! Let us know your final decision on this aite??

Ro1

[TomC]

What do you mean when you say speed wise?? AF?? write times?? Please elaborate

[CyberDyneSystems]

Write times and buffer... As far as autofocus they are really pretty much equal in this regard.

I'm sure Nikon makes good glass.. but I keep running into Nikon owners that are
A: Going Canon when they go all digital
B: Buying more Sigma lenses becasue they outperform the Nikon leneses they had (ie Sigma 120-300 f/2.8)

[nucki]

Hey guys. I really need some input. I've read the reviews, etc. and blah blah. I posted something similar to this on the Nik*& forum. Tell me straight, why should I buy the 10D over the D70? I realize this will be subjective since this is the Canon forum, but thats what I want. I'm very split on which one to buy. PLease help me decide.

TIA,
TomC

Hi Tom!

I was in the same situation as you a while ago. I had no lenses, nothing else in terms of DSLR. Well I ever owned canon (EOS300, G2) But after the decision to go further to a DSLR Canon was my only chioce! Nikon has'nt got anything in these days, but after holding the 10D in my hands, I knew this is the camera I want! nothing else.
Now to friends of mine own a D70. But after holding it in my hands, I was happy to have my 10D.
I mean, the D70 isnt a bad camera! no, its a good thing. Many things are further developed as at the 10D. Higher speed, using of faster CF cards, spot metering, and some other things.
On the other hand, there are a lot of thigs I dislike. NO mirror lockup, you had to press 2 buttons at the same time for exposure compensation (same as 300D but I think D70 is more comparable to 10D), display has an extrem blue cast, IMHO its laying not that good in your hands, and some other things.

about lenses. I think if you really buy good lenses, Nikon or Canon, than the price do not differ very much. I think canon is a little bit more expensive as nikon.

So wich one is better for the money? hmm....? good questin. I would recommend, go to your dealer take a nikon, touch it, play around, than take the canon, touch it, play around. Then make a decission. wich one you like more? just for the feeling.

I think both cameras have a potential wich is really enough for most photographers. Its still the human beeing behind the camera who takes a good photo!

if you want to see over 200 testshots from both 10D and D70 visit our website:

http://www.pixelbeisser.at

best regards
Peter

[nucki]

I found something else a little while ago. I dont know if somebody of you know fritz poelking. he is an famous german photographer.
I few years ago, he changed from nikon to canon (film versions)
take a look at his website... its still interesting, he writes about lenses, missing mirror lockup,....

site is in english and german. for the article about EOS 1 click on the workshop button on the left side, then "the canon EOS 1 in nature photography"

http://www.poelking.com/index_e.htm

Although its film based, its an intersting article

best regards
Peter

[samdring]

Practical Photography here in UK (May 2004) tested 6 top DSLRs and 10D came out as testers choice (D70,300D,SD10,istD,S2Pro)

'Despite the rush of young pretenders..is still the benchmark DSLR. The combination of image quality, autofocus speed, low noise and most of all features, make it the most complete SLR here. Negatives included start-up times showing their age and the supplied RAW conversion software.

Buy it - leave it on all the time and shoot JPEG :lol:

[Malaxos1]

OK here's my take. What I like about the Nikon is the CCD sensor. What I hate about it is the CCD sensor as well. Let me explain, CCDs in my opinion produce sharper images that require lees PS work to make them sharper, however (this is the reason I went Canon) is that CCDs produce more noise at higher ISOs. Also, Nikon is not planning on coming out with a battery grip for the D70. Images look good to me from the Nikon, but how will it perform at an indoor wedding where flash is not permitted? I wouldn't trust using ISO 400 or greater with the Nikon, however I have used ISO 800 from the canon and will do it again. You should consider all pros and cons and weigh them against your needs, also include some things that don't apply to you at this time, that may apply in the future. You won't want to be hired for a job that your camera won't be able to give you thr results your clients demand. BTW, I just did two weddings back to back and one last month using my D Rebel. I was very happy with the results as was the clients...Dean

[Vic_izoita]

I was at a Mall few days ago and i stopped at the Ritt's Camera store just to see what they have (i never buy anything from them because they never have anything good and if they do its overpriced). I saw the new d70 on the shelf and i asked the sales lady if i could check it out. The camera just did not feel as good as my 10D, its definatly lighter and just didn't feel like a serious camera. 10D is a solid build camera and the d70 felt like its all plastic.
Buy a 10D!

[KennyG]

My only comment is I am meeting a lot of pros that are moving over to Canon from N***n because of quality issues and poor after-sales service.

Whatever the choice, once you have bought into the 'system' you pretty much have to stick with it for life.

[SoCal69]

On another note, I have held and shot both at a Ritz camera store. I definately like the build of the 10D vs. the D70. No comparison, in fact.


I think this is the key to your decision. Both Canon and Nikon make good cameras and lenses, with similar bells and whistles. Each has its pros and cons. The important thing is that you find something that fits your specific needs and with which you are comfortable in terms of the build and feel of the camera. For me, that was Canon (I have the 10D), despite the fact that I was a devout Nikon film SLR user for the last 20+ years.

[ron chappel]

Choose one for the lenses if nothing else convinces you

Canon lenses offer a better choice and are generally cheaper

OR

Buy nikon for the nicer finish/build quality
(yes i know L lenses are great but unless you particularly like cream colour there's nothing like nikkor tele's in grey/black!I would consider changing over if i had the money/all else being equal)

[Arnie]

D70 is a D100 with a new body design similar to the D2H. The similarity ends there because within the D70's shell is Nikon's old technology DSLR imaging system, specific example is D70's CCD against D2H's LBCast. If you buy a D70, you are buying Nikon's old technology. Try comparing the technology use in the D100, D1x, D1h, D70 and the D2H and you will know what i mean.

If you really want to stick with Nikon, make sure that the camera you will buy shares the same technology as the D2H. Nikon has invested so much in this technology and im sure its a long term plan. Following the Nikon DSLR series, i guess there will be a D2X and a D200 in the future.

If you really can't wait. You have Canon as the best alternative.

[evilenglishman]

interesting that no one has pointed out the fact that the D70 is not Nikon's equivilent of a 10D, it is meant to be on par with the 300D - which it blows completely out of the water!

[Scottes]

interesting that no one has pointed out the fact that the D70 is not Nikon's equivilent of a 10D, it is meant to be on par with the 300D - which it blows completely out of the water!

That's freaking pathetic. If it's meant to be on par with a 300D maybe they should put the price on par with a 300D. With a $400 price difference it should be better.

Just look, the 10D is $300 more expensive, and it blows the D70 out of the water. The D70 has to be $500 more expensive to blow it's "competition" out of the water.

No comparison here.

[timmyquest]

interesting that no one has pointed out the fact that the D70 is not Nikon's equivilent of a 10D, it is meant to be on par with the 300D - which it blows completely out of the water!

That's freaking pathetic. If it's meant to be on par with a 300D maybe they should put the price on par with a 300D. With a $400 price difference it should be better.

Just look, the 10D is $300 more expensive, and it blows the D70 out of the water. The D70 has to be $500 more expensive to blow it's "competition" out of the water.

No comparison here.


*and the towns people raise their arms and voices in praise to what was said*

[evilenglishman]

interesting that no one has pointed out the fact that the D70 is not Nikon's equivilent of a 10D, it is meant to be on par with the 300D - which it blows completely out of the water!

That's freaking pathetic. If it's meant to be on par with a 300D maybe they should put the price on par with a 300D. With a $400 price difference it should be better.

Just look, the 10D is $300 more expensive, and it blows the D70 out of the water. The D70 has to be $500 more expensive to blow it's "competition" out of the water.

No comparison here.

In the UK there isn't much of a price difference

300D = £669.95
10D= £1199.95
D70 = £799
sorry Scottes but you are wrong - at those prices it is equivilent to a 300D, not a 10D

[ahmadof]

is that the interface of the 10D is much better than any of the Nikons. The D70 is better than the others, but the scroll wheel on the canon combined with the programable set buttin in the middle is like using a mouse on the menus. Everything falls to your hand on the canon. there is a lot more hunting on the nikon. I'm sure you become proficient with the d70, but the canon is better. I personally feel that this is because canon is into everything electronic (photocopiers, camcorders, scanners, printers, etc. etc). They are more into ergonimics of the equip. All the nikons seem to be adaptations from their film counterparts (less so the D70). This leaves buttons where they should be if they were mechnically activated, but not if you could put them wherever you wanted to... as is the case with electronics. The other point is that canon seems to upgrade much more frequently than nikon ( I could be wrong long term, but that has been the case recently). This might be a concern in the future when you have a considerable collection of lenses and the body becomes the upgrade. Regardless, both camreras take incredible pictures and if you are just starting out , as I am, neither will hold you back for some time.

[evilenglishman]

The D70, announced on 28th January 2004 is Nikon's answer to the new sub-$1,000 digital SLR market, its clear competition being the Canon EOS 300D (Digital Rebel) announced last August. The D70 is revealed by Nikon exactly two years since the D100, the D70 appears to share quite a lot with its sibling including a six megapixel CCD sensor and Multi-CAM900 auto focus system. The D70 also appears to have quite a bit going for it which are the primary complaints for EOS 300D owners, flash exposure compensation being one of them.

[Scottes]

B&H

D70 + Lens, $1300
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=productlist&A=details&Q=&sku=315813&is=REG

300D + Lens, $900
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=productlist&A=details&Q=&sku=297501&is=REG

I don't know where you're getting your prices.

A pound of dog poo and a marketing quote quote gets you... <drum roll> a pound of dog poo.

[evilenglishman]

http://www.cameraking.co.uk/displayProduct1.asp?ProductIDs=2577&ManufacturerID =1&PriceRangeID=&Ty_Typeproduct=6&TypeId=47

http://www.cameraking.co.uk/displayProduct1.asp?ProductIDs=2445&ManufacturerID =1&PriceRangeID=&Ty_Typeproduct=6&TypeId=47

http://www.cameraking.co.uk/displayProduct1.asp?ProductIDs=3032&ManufacturerID =2&PriceRangeID=&Ty_Typeproduct=6&TypeId=47

[polloloco81]

Here's an objective no BS assessment: One of my professional photographer friend uses a 10D, a good friend of mine uses the D70, and I got the D Rebel.

300D < D70 < 10D
$900 < $1200 < $1500

So to sum it up, you get what you pay for. D70 has more features and a bit faster than the 300D, but the 10D trumps the D70, but you pay more for the 10D. So the question you ask yourself is, how much are you willing to spend? :)

I really wanted to get the D70, but personally, the extra features did was not worthwhile enough for me to spend the extra dough, so I got the Rebel and used the extra cash to buy some accessories and lenses

[Jesper]

Two features that are absolutely essential to me and that are missing on the D70, are mirror lock-up and remote control. I don't understand why Nikon crippled a very nice camera by leaving those things off... :roll:

[evilenglishman]

Two features that are absolutely essential to me and that are missing on the D70, are mirror lock-up and remote control. I don't understand why Nikon crippled a very nice camera by leaving those things off... :roll:

Accroding to the D70 manual:
ML-L3 Wireless remote control is considered an optional extra.

[CyberDyneSystems]

If I remember correctly after all the rest of the blather that followed.. the original question was about the 10D Vs. the D70.. and then the subsequent "marriage" to the given systems soon entered .. as well it should.

Of the two,. the 10D is better. That's my opinion :)

The feel has a lot to do with it,. and to give a nod to M.R. of Luminous Landscape.. :wink: the ergonomics and controls are better laid out,. the menu system on the 10D beats the pants off of even Canons top pro models for usability.. it's more intuitive than the $8,000.00 1Ds system...

Thus if we beleive that the image quality of the D70 is the equal of the 10D or vice versa.. we are left with some other criterea to decide.

(mind you this was an old ressurected post.. I would not be at all surprised if the original poster has long forgotten this thread and surely he has a camera in hand where ever he is :wink: )

So the "Other Criteria"

1. Immmediately "the system" was brought up. We all feel Canon wins. 8) both for lenses and for Canon's domination of the DSLR market.
2. Build Quality: The 10D is a work of art and engineering.. and has a better feel.
3. Usability.. 10D again.. better designed interface etc.
4. Lastly.. the 10D is aprt of a much more eveolved lineage. It is the third in a direct line of affordable yet pro oriented cameras. The D70 is the first of it's kind.

10D takes 4 out of 4

[CyberDyneSystems]

Nice to see you come out of your self imposed exile just to stir things up a bit Evil.. :roll: Board hasn't been the same without you. :)

[evilenglishman]

I myself am facing the dilema of upgrading my D60 to a 10D, I can send in my camera +£800 and get a 10D or for £150 more I can keep my D60 and buy a D70 - for £300 more I could keep my D60 and buy a D100.

I am completely dissatisfied with Canons prehistoric buffer, last week I shot over 900 images in one day on a shoot and I spent god knows how long waiting for the buffer to empty - this would not be fixed by buying a 10D either, Nikon's are much faster cameras in that respect.

It's a no brainer for me, I'll buy the D70 and see how it works out. If its equal to or better than the D60 I'll sell all my Canon stuff on ebay and wave bye bye to canon for good. I've had 3 Canon cameras and havent been impressed with any of them. The D60 is good, I like it but its just too clunky.

Is a post that is 15 days old an "old ressurected" post?

[Scottes]

Good luck.

[CyberDyneSystems]

...just wondering, am I wrong about the D70s 2.5 FPS??

vs. the 10D 3 fps? How is that better?

[eric1]

...just wondering, am I wrong about the D70s 2.5 FPS??

vs. the 10D 3 fps? How is that better?

it does 3fps for 12 shots,but only at med JPG. if you shoot higher res.,like i do the 10D is faster.

eric1

[CyberDyneSystems]

... ahh.. the 3FPS is for a file size no one would ever shoot...

That's usefull info :mrgreen:

[dwc]

3 fps. for 9 full frames at max. quality jpg.but it will keep shooting if you use a fast compact flash card.(Sandisk ULTRA II). It just writes faster!!
I noticed everyone talking about price. The Drebel has a $100 lens on it. It's not a great lens. The guy at Helix Camera told me that they weren't ordering anymore kits just bodies, too many complaints with the lens being fuzzy! The D70 kit includes a $400 lens that you can see the difference. Mirror lock-up might be in firmware upgrade. The 10D is a great camera, but for the price throw in a GOOD lens! The body alone on the D70 is $999. I bought the remote for $18. It's wireless and a lot smaller than the manual showed. I love my D70! :D

Scott W.

[evilenglishman]

read this regarding frame rate etc: http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/nikond70/page10.asp

and also this:
In all of our digital SLR reviews we now provide a sound recording of a continuous burst of shots. You can download the recording (click here - 1,284 KB MP3) of the Nikon D70 shooting continuously for 20 seconds followed by the Canon EOS 300D shooting continuously for 20 seconds. Both cameras were set to manual focus, a shutter speed faster than 1/250 sec and aimed at a static subject. Image quality was set to six megapixels JPEG Fine on both cameras. The CF card used was a SanDisk Ultra II 1 GB (Type I).

The primary difference between the way these two cameras buffer is that the D70 buffers the compressed JPEG file, the EOS 300D buffers the RAW data from the sensor. This means that using a lower JPEG quality or smaller image size on the D70 would provide even more images in a single burst at 3 fps. Both cameras allow you to keep your finger on the shutter release and will take as soon as enough buffer space is available for the next shot.

... the D70 manages 44 frames in 20 seconds, the EOS 300D just 23. More importantly the D70 shoots the first 17 of those frames at the full 3 frames per second, the EOS 300D managing only 4 frames at its slower 2.5 frames per second. Kudos Nikon.

http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/nikond70/Samples/nikond70vscanoneos300d.mp3

[Tom W]

I'm going to try to stay out of argument mode.

I'll only say this - wait until photokina before you make that decision. Then, if your frames-per-second needs still put you into a D70, then go for it.

[MarkH]

read this regarding frame rate etc: http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/nikond70/page10.asp

... the D70 manages 44 frames in 20 seconds, the EOS 300D just 23. More importantly the D70 shoots the first 17 of those frames at the full 3 frames per second, the EOS 300D managing only 4 frames at its slower 2.5 frames per second. Kudos Nikon.

http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/nikond70/Samples/nikond70vscanoneos300d.mp3

One thing that is not mentioned there is how the D70 compares to the 10D when shooting RAW. Many on this group avidly claim that RAW should be used at all times if possible. Check the shooting speed chart on the the first link in the quote, the D70 shooting speed in RAW drops to 1fps within the first 2 or 3 frames.

My conclusion:
If shooting RAW then the Canon 10D has the better buffer system and totally whips the D70's butt.

I don't know how this gets so little mention anywhere! How could people not notice this?

[evilenglishman]

maybe you missed something.

RAW 2.9 fps for first 4 images 1.0 fps continuous
Large/Fine JPEG 2.9 fps for first 12 images, 2.4 fps for next 8 images 2.2 fps continuous

there isnt a "busy" block like canon has - you can continue shooting 1 frame a second until the card is full.


In my D2H review I talked about 'Smart buffering' (my own name for it), the ability for the camera to use its buffer in the same way a multitasking computer operating system would use RAM, to buffer the RAW data and temporarily store the converted output data (JPEG or NEF) before being written to the Compact Flash card. This technique has the advantage of freeing up Buffer space as quickly as possible and not being bottlenecked by the Compact Flash card or interface.

Approximate image processing sequence:

1. Record data as it comes off the image sensor, unprocessed data (approx. 8.7 MB per shot)
2. Store this unprocessed data in the buffer
3. Take unprocessed data from the buffer, convert to image file format (JPEG, NEF, etc.)
4. Store this processed image file in the buffer ready for writing
5. Write output JPEG / NEF image files from buffer to CF card

The important thing to understand here is that steps 3 and 5 are happening in parallel, the image processing engine (step 3) is constantly freeing up buffer space for new shots to be stored. This means that you do not necessarily have to wait for the entire burst of frames to be written to the CF card before there is enough space to take another full burst.

Something the D70 does significantly differently than previous Nikon digital SLR's is that it allows you to keep taking images continuously after the initial burst of shots, it does not limit you to a certain number of frames and require you to re-press the shutter release.

[MarkH]

maybe you missed something.

RAW 2.9 fps for first 4 images 1.0 fps continuous
Large/Fine JPEG 2.9 fps for first 12 images, 2.4 fps for next 8 images 2.2 fps continuous

there isnt a "busy" block like canon has - you can continue shooting 1 frame a second until the card is full.


Still, the Canon 10D can take 9 shots in 3 seconds and the Nikon can't, so it comes down to whether you need a quick burst within 3 seconds and then have time to wait for the 10D to clear its buffer before you need another 3 second burst or whether the Nikon is better with the ability to shoot continuously until the card is full at a rate of 1 fps.

I can see advantages either way but if 1 fps is fine then the 10D can easily manage taking 1 RAW shot every second for at least 10 seconds.

Over all I like the Nikon buffering system, if it could buffer at least 9 RAW files then it would beat the 10D in all respects for continuous shooting. The Nikon also writes to the card much faster than the 10D, though that's a little disappointing for us 10D owners, I must say that with the reasonably big buffer that can hold 9 RAW images (even with large fine JPG embedded) I don't often find myself waiting for the camera.