DPP sharpness in RAW or RGB

[Scotto]

I have recently descovered how usefull and efficent DPP is as a RAW workflow tool. Just got one quick question.

There is a Sharpen slider in the RAW part as well as the RGB section. Am I right in thinking that the RGB sharpen tool sharpens individual R G B tones ?

What is the preferred method - if any

[Scotto]

anyone?

[René Damkot]

I think both do the same, it's just that the scales are different.
Not 100% sure though. I always use the 'Raw' slider.

[yb98]

I also always use the raw slider but I have never compared to the jpeg slider.

[tzalman]

It seems to me pretty unlikely that in DPP's internal workflow the sharpening is applied directly the RAW data prior to demosaicing. It would be a strange and unneccessary redundancy to have two separate sharpening operations. I think the designer's reasoning is that DPP is intended to provide rudimentary editing of RGB images (jpgs) for Canon owners who don't have another editing application in addition to being a RAW converter. However, if you open a jpg the RAW tab is inoperative, so access to sharpening is provided through the RGB tab.

[Dunlop]

My workflow to date has been import, and make any adjustments in Lightroom. If I want to resize for my photosite, or to send as emails, I export, and resize to JPEG from Lightroom, and sharpen using RGB sharpen in DPP. I was hoping that Lightroom 1.1 would solve this extra step, but the new sharpening is capture only.

If I didnt want to make any serious adjustments, I would just do everything in DPP. I still am a huge fan of this program(especially since its free), but it does lack key features if you want to do serious PP to your pics.

[dekalbSTEEL]

I've found that the RAW slider doens't really change the way the photo looks while you're previewing it in DPP, but the RGB slider adjustment IS noticeable, especially if viewing at 100%.

And if you don't want to spend the big bucks for Photoshop, there's always the Gimp (http://www.gimp.org/windows/);)

[Scotto]

And if you don't want to spend the big bucks for Photoshop, there's always the Gimp (http://www.gimp.org/windows/);)

Thanks for all the reply guys -much appreciated.

I do have photoshop CS3 but I find the RAW workflow in DPP much much better

[tdodd]

When you work using the raw toolbox you are not changing pixels, just data that dictates how the pixels are to be processed. i.e. it is completely non-destructive and entirely reversible.

I believe that if you make adjustments on the RGB panel you are doing the equivalent of jpeg editing, which means the physical pixels are changed and if you save your edits you have just performed a destructive edit and will never be able to get back to the original photo (unless you saved it elsewhere previously). Canon's own advice is to always work in the raw tool when you can. Nowadays I use Lightroom but when I was an avid DPP fan I used the RGB tool only as a last resort. Of course, if you shoot jpeg in the first place then the RGB tool is all you get.

[andrewaaa5]

I thought all the items/settings in the 'RAW' tab were meant to represent anything that was able to do 'in the camera' (On your camera go to the menu > parameters > etc.. and look..) and that all the settings in the RGB tab were for anything additional that are not present in the camera (extra 'kind' goodies from the kind people at Canon)

I set everything 'in camera' to '0' (menu >parameters > contrast/sharpness etc...) so that I can alter them later in DPP, although normally I just apply a sharpness of '4' in the RAW tab on DPP to all images that I work with.

You can see this for yourself if you apply sharpness 'in camera' to +2, and take a photo, then set that sharpness 'in camera' to '0'. Compare the RAW tab of both photos in DPP and see the difference....

Also, try looking at a 100% view of a photo with the 'sharpness' on DPP set to '0'. Then look at the same pic at 100% with the 'sharpness' set to 4. Pretty big difference hey?!:O But some people like soft images, and of course aim for softness on purpose... I do myself depending on the image I am working with...

As for the 'sharpness' slider in the RGB tab, I cannot comment as I don't use it, however, the reason I do not use it, is because I have been pretty unimpressed with the results achieved from it on previous testing...

[dekalbSTEEL]

When you work using the raw toolbox you are not changing pixels, just data that dictates how the pixels are to be processed. i.e. it is completely non-destructive and entirely reversible.

I believe that if you make adjustments on the RGB panel you are doing the equivalent of jpeg editing, which means the physical pixels are changed and if you save your edits you have just performed a destructive edit and will never be able to get back to the original photo (unless you saved it elsewhere previously). Canon's own advice is to always work in the raw tool when you can. Nowadays I use Lightroom but when I was an avid DPP fan I used the RGB tool only as a last resort. Of course, if you shoot jpeg in the first place then the RGB tool is all you get.

RGB adjustments are not destructive in DPP, you can always use the revert button (circled in red in pic #2 below)


http://img523.imageshack.us/img523/8323/07012007132041mediumzc0.png (http://imageshack.us)

http://img523.imageshack.us/img523/7251/07012007132052mediumam6.png (http://imageshack.us)

You can always revert to "as shot" in DPP raw files

That's why you can use the same RAW file and edit it as many ways as you want (i.e. B&W, cropped, posterized, sepia, whatever) Just use a different file name when you convert to jpeg for output.

[tdodd]

I was aware of the revert buttons for each adjustment and the facility to return to "as shot" settings for all adjustments but I was under the impression that editing in the RGB tab was actually harmful to the original file, whereas the RAW tab adjustments were 100% reversible, even after saving the edits. I've just run a little test on a photo using DPP 3 and no matter how vicious and ludicrous my adjustments I can get back to a version that looks identical to the original, even if I have saved my idiotic edits in between sessions.

I'm pleased to retract my assertion in post #9 above and will now be confident to edit using DPP in any fashion and using any tab that I like (except now I use Lightroom ;) ). Maybe DPP 2 was a bit different in its behaviour but as DPP 3 is just dandy I don't intend to install and try DPP 2 and fiddle about just for the sake of curiosity.

[dekalbSTEEL]

tdodd,

I always intend my posts to not only address the posters within the thread, but others who might be lurking as well. I've learned many invaluable tips from just reading other people's threads.

and after 271 posts, I think it's time you got yourself a sig;)

[Scotto]

Once again thanks for all the advice guy.

I'm going to stick with DPP from now on, its simple easy to use and gives me excellent results.

[danpass]

I just "saved" some RAW edits and the file details (in Win Explorer) shows the time I made the changes.

:confused:


I was hoping that DPP saved the 'changes' somewhere else (like LR) but it appears that the settings, 'recipe' they call it, is amended to the file.

I hit all the resets and it does indeed go back but ....


Do you think it might be like saving a JPEG over and over, where some detail is lost each time?



.

[dekalbSTEEL]

RAW is a lossless file format. You are not changing the file when you apply the recipe, you are only changing the way the image is presented on your monitor , and those changes are applied to the output file (jpeg, tiff, etc) when you choose to do so.

Jon

[danpass]

Just a 'metadata' type of change you figure?


.

[Bill Boehme]

According to the users manual (OK, I know that is cheating to read the manual), when processing a RAW file, you should use the adjustments on the RAW tab, but since they have rather limited authority you can use the adjustments on the RGB tab only after you hit the limits on RAW adjustments and still need further adjustments. If you are working on a RAW file, the modified file is just as reversible whether changes are made on the RAW tab or the RGB tab.

[Time Thief]

If I remember right from the tutorial I saw you can do both and they will be consecutive so you can really make it too much if not careful.

[tzalman]

Just a 'metadata' type of change you figure?
.

Definitely just a metadata change. However, if you want to store the editing in a separate file and reload it at a later date, you have that option in the Edit menu.