Our First Portraiture Client :: Need Real, Strong C&C to Improve

[S.Horton]

This is our first portraiture shoot.

I think we drew a tough one -- Mixed skintone, subjects with white t-shirts, clueless on lighting so PP was required.

One thing we do NOT know is how much to boost saturation, if at all. (I suspect they're oversaturated, but not certain; set up +1, all colors)

Strong, direct C&C would be greatly appreciated.

The client will not see the photos for a day or so.

Errors we know we made shown w/EXIF.

#1, Direct from RAW to JPG:
http://midnightblue.smugmug.com/photos/167390285-S.jpg


#1, Post-Processed:
http://midnightblue.smugmug.com/photos/167383122-L.jpg
EXIF: http://midnightblue.smugmug.com/photos/newexif.mg?ImageID=167383122
(DOF Error)

NOTE ON #1: On the web, posted here, this is coming off a few notches warmer than we have it set up.


#2, Direct from RAW to JPG:
http://midnightblue.smugmug.com/photos/167390360-S.jpg


#2, Post Processed:
http://midnightblue.smugmug.com/photos/167383171-L.jpg
EXIF: http://midnightblue.smugmug.com/photos/newexif.mg?ImageID=167383171
(ISO 400 = Error)

Now, compared to sports, T&I and hobby shots for fun, this was very different, and seems much more time-consuming in both setup and PP. Tip of the hat to the pros in this biz. ;)

[Kagemaru]

I think you did a fine job, especially with number one. The lighting is nice and even.

My only critique of #1 would be the stuff on the coffee table.

#2 is nice too. The only think I would do different is crop it a lot tighter. I don't personally feel that it's necessary to get the whole gazebo in the shot.

Nice work!

[roman_t]

i second kagemaru comments. i like expressions in first image. seems like its very good time.

[S.Horton]

#1
Yes, that coffee table! Rookie mistake -- Didn't notice it until it got into CS3, then it had to get knocked down; it really jumped. Do I dare crop the feet off to dump it?

#2, hmmmmmmmmmmm........... great point, didn't think of that.
http://midnightblue.smugmug.com/photos/167395769-L.jpg

[Time Thief]

For that many people and that many kids and add its your first session. You did fine. The one thing I might try is to see if you have any others just like the ones you showed us here just different poses. More like you took several in a row to get the best expressions. If you have some and they are about the same focal length it would be fairly easy to clone some of the kids faces from one to the other to get the absolute best expression. Call them both up on the screen at the same time and clone from one to the other. I also agree you don't need the entire gazeebo and should crop some more and try to get rid of the pickup truck.

[Time Thief]

Personally I would go just a little less and only go enough to get rid of the truck and then leave the same amount of space on the other side of the gazeebo. That is just me though.

[Titus213]

You caught some great smiles in both of them. They look good, even light, no harsh shadows anywhere, no one blocking light from another. With that many people that's a major accomplishment all by itself.

#2 may be workable in a 4x6 portrait crop. You may have to add some grass on the bottom.

[Wildewinds]

Three things... I actually think the crop for #1 is too tight. You gotta leave a little room along the edges to allow for framing and whatnot. The kid on the left is darn close to the edge.

I agree with Time Thief about the crop for #2. And, like Titus mentions, a standard ratio makes it easy for them to get framing.

[khall]

The second gazebo picture is much better after all its the people that you are taking.

[mamabravo]

nice work

i agree take out the coffee table

also #2 i would clone out the truck in the background

[AginKajun]

The ladder in #1 for me has to go. Even before the coffee table;)

Keep shooting, I like the 2nd one better. More of individual people's heads at different levels and not lined up in a row like #1.

Have to say not bad for first try. Keep posting and listening to c&C will go a long way to improving.

[TSEE]

I think they look good, aside from the blown whites in the second. I agree with the crop on #2 as well...I'd crop it vertically.
I'm sure they will be pleased none the less.

[hejl]

On your first pic,

black clothes and white clothes are both really hard to capture. in the future, i'd advise your subjects against wearing either.

it looks like you might be a tad overexposed. since you have raw, try pulling it down a bit, and re-leveling.

[S.Horton]

#2, from which we will take crops in standard sizing. Bumped exposure down a tad, removed the truck as best we could.
http://midnightblue.smugmug.com/photos/167699987-L.jpg



Cloning faces: Did not attempt, but I know exactly what you mean. They're going to print these >8x10, so we're hesitant to mess around with a face. (Cowards, we are!)

@all thx, we're NOOBs no doubt on this one. Learned so much. So much more to learn.

[S.Horton]

...just shot because we were there. Revved up for some fun.
http://midnightblue.smugmug.com/photos/167693054-L.jpg

[Curtis N]

Any group shot with 15 people and 30 open eyes is successful in my book.

Very few homes have any place to do a shot this big with a clean background. If you get rid of the coffee table, then the ladder, then something else will stick out. The picture frame on the back wall bothers me more than the other stuff. This sort of thing will drive you nuts. Thankfully you also have the gazebo shot that I think is much nicer.

I think a horizontal 8x10 crop of the gazebo shot will look very good.

[S.Horton]

^^ Saw your link on flash photography; a great read and helpful no doubt. We did think about heavy PP on the indoor shot, but went right down that slope you described, then stopped. We may dump that frame, though, because it looks like it is sticking from his head. Plus, hey, that is the paying client.

They have open eyes based upon a tip from POTN (somewhere) about having the crowd close eyes, count to 3, open, shoot, shoot, shoot.......

The indoor shot was a total surprise to us. So was the family dressing as they did; this was supposed to be a candid-style, casual shoot, but they had a very specific request about the indoor library shot. The only influence we had was choice of the gazebo location. Next time: someone goes and moves the car!!

By way of background, this is the client's B&B where a family member (leftmost male, top, both photos) is in the Army. So, it was vitally important to get the shots.

Turning to the Business topic (maximizing money):
Option 1: Web-only purchase, they crop
Option 2: Web-only purchase, we crop in advance and limit options
Option 3: We crop, print, present, sell in person
Option 4: Any of the above, CD available for $X
Option 5: Other?

Pricing: We literally intend to follow Sears' (yeah, the store) structure on pricing. We have no other local go-by for portraiture.

Thoughts?

[Curtis N]

Option 6: Crop, print proofs, and sell in person to the one who hired you. Post them online for the other two families.

Pricing: Does Sears do location work? This stuff is much more time-consuming than the assembly line studio approach. Maybe match Sears print pricing only if you also charge a significant location/sitting fee (at least $100). Next time try to work this out beforehand.

[S.Horton]

^^ Ah, there's a barter here. We have an equivalent sitting fee of $250 in trade of services, plus prints.

Very casual; told them prints would start at $30 5x7 and go up based upon size, paper. They asked if we'd do their on-location PR/web shots for the B&B, plus an engagement for sports action and T&I this summer, so cross-sell mission accomplished. ;)

Do you think we should offer alternative versions in b/w, sepia, midnight sepia, or not?

Are fees charged for online availability, or not?

[Curtis N]

Do you think we should offer alternative versions in b/w, sepia, midnight sepia, or not?I think it would be nice to have examples of these in your portfolio and mention them as an option.Are fees charged for online availability, or not?I don't think that's very common, and they might feel like you were gouging them if you're referring to a Smugmug page that they know is free for you.

[JR1]

In your otdoor photo the folks have raccoon eyes. You need to get some light in there to open up the eyes and shadows. Personally, I find the backgrounds distracting in both, though the outdoor setting is much better than the one indoors. And while I understand what the families were trying to accomplish with the different color shirts, I think you can position yourself as a professional by recommending what people wear for their portraits. Quite frankly, anyone with a point-and-shoot digicam can produce a properly exposed and color-balanced photo. The difference between a professional photographer and the rest of 'em is what the pro brings to the table.

[Curtis N]

Quite frankly, anyone with a point-and-shoot digicam can produce a properly exposed and color-balanced photo.I've seen enough crappy pictures to know that most people cannot. But if your point is that making a good group shot has little to do with equipment and much to do with knowledge, then I agree.

[getabetterpic]

I think someone mentioned it earlier, but I wasn't wild about how the couples were posed in the first shot. I always try and create some type of flow so there aren't straight lines. Pull in some chairs and stools, stagger, whatever. More like the second one, where you don't have anybody really on the same level.

[S.Horton]

#1, 2nd pass PP, picture gone, still coming off notch warmer than we have it here.
http://midnightblue.smugmug.com/photos/167948394-L.jpg
Yeah, taking the picture down would have been, well, faster. :rolleyes: ;)

About lighting -- Can you offer any tips on how to get light into the eyes?

Reflectors/color etc.?