2nd Wedding Down - Some thoughts and some gear advice needed

[Dorman]

Yesterday was my 2nd solo wedding shoot and all went pretty smooth. It was a beautiful day which led to alot of tough lighting conditions - harsh shadows outside, strong highlights through windows, and a very small and very dark church, and much to my cheer and fairly well lit reception. I used alot of flash as fill outside in the sun and used flash quite extensively at the reception. For the getting ready shots I used quite a bit of ambient light, and the cereamony was completely ambient light - so I shot at high ISO and as close to wide-open as I could. I will post up some results for comment & critique once I process.

So the lighting was challenging, as was the groom, he really wasn't into having his picture taken, especially not formals. He wouldn't even hang around long enough to do the ring shots! The layout of the church was also challenging, I could basically only shoot from the direct back, or upstairs from the balcony. It was jammed so tight I couldn't go up the sides of the pews. What do you folks do in light of poor access to the ceramony and difficult grooms? I shot with my 100mm macro at F/2.8 as 50mm was too short and my telephoto is too slow, it did a decent job but there has to be a better tool.

Tools of the trade: In my new crumpler 6mdh (which worked out AWESOME by the way) I had my 350D w/grip, Tamron 17-50 F/2.8 (used 95% of the time), 70-200 F/4 (used outdoors, too slow in), 100mm macro, and 35mm F/2.0 (didn't even come out of the bag) and my 430EX. I had borrowed a friends 300D which didn't get used due to poor high ISO performance.

Now, it was an awesome experience and I'm stoked that I have some more booked in the coming months. There's 3 areas I can see that I need to improve upon my kit: I need a 2nd body of my own for both backup and convenience, probably a 2nd flash for the 2nd body, and a lens that is longer than my 50mm and fast enough to use w/ ambient light (135mm F/2.0, 85mm F/1.8, 100mm F/2.0??). I don't want to go the 70-200 F/2.8 IS route as I already have a 70-200, looking for a fast alternative here.

So, would you do:
A)30D body only and work with lenses/flashes I already have
B)XTi body and 2nd flash, use current lenses
C)XTi body and fast longer lens, use only my 430EX

I know about the perks of the 30D compared to the 350D, does the XTi focus faster/more accurate than the XT? Does it have better high ISO performance? A little help here pros, I've been through the searches. :)

[Banbert]

and a lens that is longer than my 50mm and fast enough to use w/ ambient light (135mm F/2.0, 85mm F/1.8, 100mm F/2.0??). I don't want to go the 70-200 F/2.8 IS route as I already have a 70-200, looking for a fast alternative here.


Dont get any of the lens you have said use the money you save there and sell your 70-200 F4 (youve already found its too slow really for weddings) and you should be about able to afford a 70-200 F2.8 IS which is worth every penny.

I am still a newbie but 8 weddings in I would be happy to shoot a whole wedding with 2 bodies with the 17-55 F2.8 IS on one and the 70-200 F2.8 IS on the other.

[italianfemmy]

The 70-200 2.8 IS L is magnificent and while I have never used the one you currently have, there's no way I would get rid of it. I also vote that you should sell the 70-200 F4 and buy the 70-200 2.8 IS. You won't be dissapointed and the 70-200 F4 is going to continue not getting used and therefore it's a waste of space and money. Just my opinion though.

[liza]

Dont get any of the lens you have said use the money you save there and sell your 70-200 F4 (youve already found its too slow really for weddings) and you should be about able to afford a 70-200 F2.8 IS which is worth every penny.

I am still a newbie but 8 weddings in I would be happy to shoot a whole wedding with 2 bodies with the 17-55 F2.8 IS on one and the 70-200 F2.8 IS on the other.

Sound advice. I'm doing just that in the fall when I sell off two or three of my lenses to help finance the 70-200 2.8IS. You really need the IS for weddings.

[JaertX]

I'd go with the second body and flash.

You're not really backed up if a body or your flash craps out...so if you're going to do this, you need to be properly backed up. Start upgrading lenses after your backed up.

[Dorman]

Thanks for the input so far guys. The reason why I'm not entirely interested in moving from the F/4 to the F/2.8 IS 70-200 is I'm not a big telephoto shooter, I just view things in that perspective that often, that and my F/4 is an awesome lens for everything else and the 2.8 IS is bloody expensive! ;) In my head I think I'd get more use out of a fast prime but then again what do I know, I'm relatively a n00b compared to most wedding shooters here.

I guess where I'm at with things now is I do feel the need to have my own 2nd body so that I don't miss shots and as an insurance policy. Getting a 2nd camera I have two options, I can get the 30D for now and tough it out with the rest of what I have, or I can get the XTi and a 580EX OR lens. I will be selling my beloved 17-40 to help fund the new gear as well.

[RobKirkwood]

Always a problem when you want to upgrade everything - and all too easy in the process to get rid of things that might actually be useful a little further down the line. I too would suggest you get the second body and flash (ideally a 580ex so you can play with multiple flash). I'd put the 17-50 on one body, and the 100 macro on the other - you can use your feet to make up for lack of zoom - and if your 17-50 packs up you've got the 35mm f2 to fall back on.

Rob

[Banbert]

Just want to add that I deffo agree you need a second body and flash, thats a given tbh and anyone shooting with less than that is risking very bad situations!

Regarding the lenses though if your spending that sort of money on a lens I really do think you will get better value out of a fast zoom with IS. Primes are fine when you can move about freely and zoom with your feet but even with my small amount of wedding shooting experience I have come across situations where I am only allowed to stand in one position during the ceremony and in that case a zoom is essential to get some different shots or get as tight as you want to go from where your allowed to stand. Just my opinion of course though everyone shoots differently and I guess I just find primes a bit restrictive.

[Dorman]

RobKirkwood - after sleeping on it that's what I've been thinking about doing for the meantime. Use my 100mm macro on the 2nd body indoors, 70-200 F/4 on it outdoors.

Banbert - I agree with you 100% on the 2nd body/flash, and I see where you're coming from about the zoom vs. prime. I'm not going to have the funds for a 70-200 F/2.8 IS for an extremely long time - I've been looking at fast zoom alternatives and there's not alot out there.

I'm only going to be able to afford to invest in one peice of equipment before my next wedding, and then possibly one after. So here's what I could do:

1. buy 30D body only - better build, faster focusing, better ISO performance. Use my 17-50 on this and my 100 macro on my XT, use one flash.

2. buy an XTi body + 580 EX Flash, use same lens setup as above.

3. borrow a body again and get something like (a properly focusing) Sigma 50-150 F/2.8 EX and possibly a flash

4. borrow a body again and get a Sigma 70-200 F/2.8

The problem is like anybody entering into this business I do want to upgrade everything, and need to upgrade some things but I can't do it all at once. Limited capital. I can't decide what would be the wiser choice in the long run.

[liza]

The problem is like anybody entering into this business I do want to upgrade everything, and need to upgrade some things but I can't do it all at once. Limited capital. I can't decide what would be the wiser choice in the long run.

I understand the limited capital thing. I started building my kit in 2003 and have slowly been doing that ever since. It's very difficult to purchase everything at once. I've been using portrait monies and my yearbook stipend to purchase gear all along, a piece at a time. I've been doing that for so long that now I need to upgrade both DSLR bodies. It's never ending, I'm afraid.

[Dorman]

Never ending is right Liza, everytime I turn around it's something else. Just trying to decide now what is the right decision for the immediate future as well as long term. I've had too many situations where I've bought and my needs have changed, trying to be prepared better now.

[Philco]

Some things you just can't afford to be caught without, a spare flash and a spare body being the deal breakers. You already know that would ruin you pretty quickly.

I'd like to shoot with fast primes all the time, but no one's going to give me a medal for the extra effort and expense, so I stick w/ mostly zooms. If I had to settle on one telephoto prime, it would be the 135L. It's a fantastic lens for the money - but there again, the IS on the 70-200 makes it a more practical choice for me.

From what I've read, the xti sensor is every bit as good as the 30D, so if you're already used to the extra bit of work it is to change some settings, I'd think an xti + a 580 would be a smart choice for your money. It's not an 'ideal' kit, but you can make it work for you. The sooner you can cover the basics and move toward better glass, the better.

[jt168]

I would suggest borrow the body again and invest in a faster telephoto. If you do go down the road of a faster telephoto, go for F2.8 IS - I am afraid if you get the Sigma F2.8 without IS, someday you'll be at the crossroad again whether you should upgrade to IS.

70-200 F2.8 IS is a great lens, nothing like being able to handhold a telephoto indoors at 1/20 to 1/40 and have a good chance to get the shots in focus without much motion blur.

I typically shoot with 2 bodies - 17-55 F2.8 IS and 70-200 F2.8 IS, and that covers about 80% to 90% of the shots. Then occasionally I would swap out for 10-22 or a prime macro (for ring shots)

Good luck!

[Dorman]

Jay, since I have access to the 2nd body I have been thinking about just upgrading the glass for now, using it for a couple more jobs, and then once the season is over getting a 2nd body (30D or replacement) and a 580EX.

[Borderfox]

Get yourself a 30d, high ISO performance is excellent. Better AF and higher FPS which can be handy getting the right shot.

Heres a shot from a job I did last week taken with a 20D ISO 3200 overexposed by one third of a stop 1/125th @ f3.2 @200mm with a Sigma 70-200 f2.8. The 20D was the difference between getting the shot and not.
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y213/Borderfox/IMG_0197.jpg

[pagnamenta]

You definitely need a second body, and it seems you have that covered. You need another flash either for the body or as a slave. The 580 sounds perfect for the job. Depending on your budget, I would go with the 135L and maybe sell the 70-200 f4 and get a 200 f2.8.

I would avoiding getting the Sigma 70-200 f2.8 only because every pro. I know has upgraded to the IS version shortly after. The 70-200 weighs a lot if you're not used to it and you'll want the IS at the long end. Just my .02.

[sixsixfour]

2nd body would be my advice. There is nothing that would piss off the B&G more than finding out that the guy covering their wedding has a broken camera.

at almost every event (no full weddings yet) I shoot for, I used the 350D and the Elan 7e (film) as a backup. As soon as it was financially possible, I snatched the 30D and never looked back. next on my list is the 580EX II in the next few weeks and another body (possibly the 5D or the 30D/equivalent) by early next year.

[Borderfox]

I would reccomend the 70-200 f2.8 IS also I have the Sigma and it has served me well but I will be getting the IS next. 2nd body first for youself though.

[Dorman]

By unanimous voting I'll be getting a 2nd body (although I knew that from the moment the ceremony started on saturday!). As for a faster telephoto... well, to be blunt I just don't have the coin for the 70-200 F/2.8 IS L, I know it's THE telephoto of choice and it's great but it's just not in this photographers budget - too many basics to cover at this time. So here's my two cents on this one...

I love my 70-200 F/4 L, it's sharp, great color, small, and lightweight. Outside of weddings it suits my shooting style very well and to be truthful I used it for outdoor wedding stuff and even some indoors at the reception with flash. I don't want to sell it off for the above mentioned reasons and because also it was a gift - I won't get a mushy on ya's. ;)

So, since it is usable in certain wedding situations I was thinking about supplementing it with a fast prime for when I can't get close enough to the ceremony or the lights go down. I was firstly thinking of the 135L or the 85 F/1.8

My 2nd train of thought is to pick up something like the Sigma 50-150 F/2.8 EX HSM (if I can get a copy that focuses well!) and have the 17-50 on one cam and the 50-150 on the other body.

[Dorman]

Alright, it's getting down to the wire - I will be adding a 2nd body VERY soon and a 580EX will follow closely behind that. (XTi at the minimum, 30D if my commission cheque is really good!) As for a longer lens, I'm seriously considering trying the Sigma 50-150 F/2.8 EX HSM for it's size, performance, features, and price (based on getting a good copy - find a place with a good exchange policy).

So, should I give this Sigma 50-150 a whirl or just supplement my 70-200 with a fast prime like the 85mm F/1.8 or 100mm F/2.0?