300d and 420ex Flash. Problem????????

[Saber]

Here I go again with yet another question. I hope one day I will get the hang of this whole photography thing.

I have been experimenting with my 300d and 420ex flash and have to say i am rather dissapointed. My g3 seemed to take much better shots with the flash

Firstly for example in tv mode when i set the shutter to say 1/100secs (shooting indoors) and have my flash attached the Aperture value (4.5) flashes, as if to say the shot will be underexposed. I have to roll the shutter back to like 1" before the aperture value will stop flashing. Doesn't the camera know that I have a flash attached and that at 1/100sec the shot will turn out just fine.

Secondly, when taking indoor shoots and bouncing the flash my pictures all tend to be a little underexposed. I have tried using p, av, tv. I would have thought that in p mode the camera would be able to work out the correct ammount of flash. When the 420 fires it isn't even firing at full strength. So therefor I know that the shot could be right.
I have alos tried using the exposure lock (*) but to no avial.


Here are some examples. no post done except resizing

This shot was taken with no bounce. 1/60sec, f4.5, iso100 WB-Flash, 56mm

http://www.puretouch.com.au/pictures/flashtest001.jpg

This shot was bounced of the ceiling same settings as above

http://www.puretouch.com.au/pictures/flashtest002.jpg


Is this just something I have to deal with and fix up in Post or am I doing something wrong.

[timmyquest]

Typically whenever I’m doing flash photography (with one exception) I am in M. This allows me to use whatever shutter speed I want, which is usually 1/60 to 1/80 (we're talking indoor candid/portrait type stuff here), and then adjust my f/stop to whatever I desire...could be f/2.8 could be f/10. The nice thing about ETTL is that I don’t have to worry about it...the flash exposes it perfectly.

When you’re in TV/AV/P/Full auto etc. The camera may know that there is a flash there, but it does not meter for light taking that flashes abilities into consideration, nor does the flash take into consideration what the camera has to say.

Lets say it's a dark room and your at f/3.5 in AV mode, to get the proper exposure the shutter may need to be open for 1/2 a second, this is without the flash...but like I said, in these modes the camera doesn’t care whats up there. Now comes the flash, which takes note of the fact that your at f/3.5 and 1/2 a second shutter speed, it says "hmmm looks good to me" so it gives off a tiny flash, if any at all. (you'll still see a pre-flash).

So...as you can see, with a nice flash you can just set the camera up however you'd like and let her rip...thats whats so nice about it. Usually when your taking pictures your capturing the available light. With a flash, you are creating that light .

Lastly, the only exception I referred to above is when I’m outdoors and am using fill flash, my 550EX does this very nicely when in AV and I guess TV (which I never use).


nice about it. Usually when your taking pictures your capturing the available light. With a flash, you are creating that light ;-).

Lastly, the only exception i refered to above is when i'm outdoors and am using fill flash, my 550EX does this very nicely when in AV and i guess TV (which i never use).

[Saber]

Typically whenever I’m doing flash photography (with one exception) I am in M. This allows me to use whatever shutter speed I want, which is usually 1/60 to 1/80 (we're talking indoor candid/portrait type stuff here), and then adjust my f/stop to whatever I desire...could be f/2.8 could be f/10. The nice thing about ETTL is that I don’t have to worry about it...the flash exposes it perfectly.


Ya but in M mode the Exposure compensator kicks in and it starts to flash and moves to one end of the scale.
Bascily it is saying that you are underexposed/overexposed.

It seems like you just can't win.

[timmyquest]

[quote=timmyquest]Typically whenever I’m doing flash photography (with one exception) I am in M. This allows me to use whatever shutter speed I want, which is usually 1/60 to 1/80 (we're talking indoor candid/portrait type stuff here), and then adjust my f/stop to whatever I desire...could be f/2.8 could be f/10. The nice thing about ETTL is that I don’t have to worry about it...the flash exposes it perfectly.
quote]

Ya but in M mode the Exposure compensator kicks in and it starts to flash and moves to one end of the scale.
Bascily it is saying that you are underexposed/overexposed.

It seems like you just can't win.

You gotta ignore what the camera is telling you when in M and you have a flash on top because it has no idea what light will be there when you actually open the shutter. The flash will make sure the scene is taken care of.

[scottbergerphoto]

Here I go again with yet another question. I hope one day I will get the hang of this whole photography thing.

I have been experimenting with my 300d and 420ex flash and have to say i am rather dissapointed. My g3 seemed to take much better shots with the flash

Firstly for example in tv mode when i set the shutter to say 1/100secs (shooting indoors) and have my flash attached the Aperture value (4.5) flashes, as if to say the shot will be underexposed. I have to roll the shutter back to like 1" before the aperture value will stop flashing. Doesn't the camera know that I have a flash attached and that at 1/100sec the shot will turn out just fine.

Secondly, when taking indoor shoots and bouncing the flash my pictures all tend to be a little underexposed. I have tried using p, av, tv. I would have thought that in p mode the camera would be able to work out the correct ammount of flash. When the 420 fires it isn't even firing at full strength. So therefor I know that the shot could be right.
I have alos tried using the exposure lock (*) but to no avial.


Is this just something I have to deal with and fix up in Post or am I doing something wrong.

The camera meter measures the ambient light only. It has no input of flash data. It tells you how your exposure (shutter, f stop) of the ambient lighting compares to a standard exposure. When using flash you can choose to properly expose the background (ambient light) or ignore it. You can pick any shutter speed between ?secs and the max sync speed of the camera 1/200? The shutter speed has no effect on the flash unless you exceed the max sync speed. The f stop limits the maximum distance that the flash can travel. At ISO 100 the maximum distance of useable flash is Guide Number/f stop. As long as you remain within that distance the flash manages the exposure. You can adjust it up or down with FEC.
It helps to view flash pictures as the combination of two separate pictures, the one from the ambient light created by ISO, aperture and shutter speed, and the one from the flash.
Just one note. In P mode, most cameras limit the lowest shutter speed to 1/60 sec.
Regards,
Scott

[theoldmoose]

Wade through this, and all will be explained:

http://photonotes.org/articles/eos-flash/

[timmyquest]

Wade through this, and all will be explained:

http://photonotes.org/articles/eos-flash/

He could do that, or he could just go put his camera in M and his flash on ETTL and see what happens :-)

[PacAce]

How far away from the display were you anyway. If the flash is working fine, the low intensity of the flash indicates to me that you must have been quite a distance away from the display. If so, try getting in closer, say to within 10 feet of the display and see what happens.

As far as flash is concerned, it really doesn't matter what mode you shoot in if you don't care about needing to control the ambient lighting and want to use the flash as your primary light source.

[timmyquest]

it really doesn't matter what mode you shoot in

Yeah it does, because if he is in say AV and the camera decides he needs 2 seconds of exposure to get the proper image, first of all...his flash will do very little because the 2 second exposure would be enough, and secondly, most importantly, I don’t know many people who can get a sharp picture with a 2 second exposure.

I supose it's possible i'm missing something, but based on what i've learned since i got my flash...the only way to get consitant results is by shooting in M. Unless i'm in a well lit scene and am using hte flash for fill.

[PacAce]

it really doesn't matter what mode you shoot in

Yeah it does, because if he is in say AV and the camera decides he needs 2 seconds of exposure to get the proper image, first of all...his flash will do very little because the 2 second exposure would be enough, and secondly, most importantly, I don’t know many people who can get a sharp picture with a 2 second exposure.

I supose it's possible i'm missing something, but based on what i've learned since i got my flash...the only way to get consitant results is by shooting in M. Unless i'm in a well lit scene and am using hte flash for fill.

Yes, of course you're right, Timmy. I forgot that the 300D/DRebel does not have a custom function that keeps the camera from selecting shutter speeds that are too low for handholding in Av mode like the 10D does. So let me rephrase my earlier statement, "with the exception of the Av mode, it really doesn't matter what mode you shoot in...".

[scottbergerphoto]

it really doesn't matter what mode you shoot in

Yeah it does, because if he is in say AV and the camera decides he needs 2 seconds of exposure to get the proper image, first of all...his flash will do very little because the 2 second exposure would be enough, and secondly, most importantly, I don’t know many people who can get a sharp picture with a 2 second exposure.

I supose it's possible i'm missing something, but based on what i've learned since i got my flash...the only way to get consitant results is by shooting in M. Unless i'm in a well lit scene and am using hte flash for fill.
You can get very interesting results combining relatively long exposures with flash. The flash will nail the object in the foreground, giving a sharp subject and a dreamy background. You need to use a tripod. The important thing is that the exposure for the background is correct. You wouldn't use 2 secs if the meter calls for 1 sec. It helps to consider flash photographs as two pictures superimposed on each other, the ambient light and the flash. I suggest two books:
Mastering Flash Photography by Susan McCartney
Lighting on Location by Bob Krist
Scott

[Saber]

Thanks

Just to note I was only about 5 feet away from the model.

I have tried experimenting, M mode isn't bad. I just always had issuse with the exposure compensator doing it's own thing.

What it really boils down to is I am just going to have to change the way I take photos, the 300d is very different to my g3

[drisley]

Yes, saber, flash behaves much differently on SLR cameras as opposed to point and shoot cameras.

I too noticed this when I went from my G3 to the 300D, and started a thread here almost exactly like this one.

It takes some getting used to, but the system is better than what is used on point and shoot cameras.

I wouldnt want to go back to the system the G3 used now that I've learned proper SLR flash technique.
I find that my flash shots with my 420ex now look much better with the 300D than with my G3.

[beckyb]

i too have been bothered by my results. i own a 550ex & 420ex with my digital rebel. my photos either look over or under exposed. i am not a big flash user. i use studio strobes & natural light. i read the light with a light meter. How are you deciding on what Manual settigns to use with your flash? in camera metering?? help please, i have a wedding friday!

Is there some kind of compensation for digital because of the lense 1.6 difference??? that was a thought.

[gary_580]

Is there some kind of compensation for digital because of the lense 1.6 difference??? that was a thought.


Thats the exact thought ive been having. Anyone have the answer?

[robertwgross]

Is there some kind of compensation for digital because of the lense 1.6 difference??? that was a thought.

Thats the exact thought ive been having. Anyone have the answer?

What about the x1.6 cropping factor? It doesn't matter.

If there is enough light to get on the subject, then there is enough light to get on the crop of the subject.

Consider how E-TTL works. You push the shutter button and set off the entire chain of events for a flash image capture. The flash unit does a pre-flash of low intensity, and then a sensor measures the amount of light reflected off the subject, or actually the crop of the subject, and that reflected light has entered the lens and gotten to the sensor in the camera. It does not give a rat's ass what cropping factor is in play. A quick computation will yield the correct exposure values which are then used by the body and lens for a split second later when the main flash fires.

Now, as you move to long lenses, you quickly find that the lens can reach farther than the flash unit can. OK. That's the breaks of the game.

---Bob Gross---