Recommendations for Travel Tripod

[Tareq]

I have this issue long time ago, if money is not issue then i can buy but in fact it is an issue, but let's say if the money is not an issue, which one you all recommend me for?

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/333971-REG/Slik_611614_Pro_614_CF_Carbon.html

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/475899-REG/Gitzo_GT1550T_GT_1550T_Traveler_6X_Carbon.html

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/378780-REG/Velbon_ELCARMA540A_EL_Carmagne_540A_Tripod.html

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/278545-REG/Slik_611840_Sprint_Pro_Tripod.html


All are Carbon Fiber tripod except the last one which is cheaper too, so i want that tripod where i can put it in my suitcase which is about 70cm long and will be little full with cloths or some stuff, so i am waiting your advice.

[Tareq]

I found those too, so now harder to choose good enough one

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/439929-REG/Slik_615714_Pro_714_CF_II.html

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/376194-REG/Slik_611613_Pro_613_CF_Carbon.html

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/473491-REG/Benro_C228_C_228_Carbon_Fiber_Tripod.html

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/475922-REG/Gitzo_GT1540G_GT_1540G_Mountaineer_6X_Carbon.html

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/475921-REG/Gitzo_GT1540_GT_1540_Mountaineer_6X_Carbon.html

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/410262-REG/Gitzo_G1158G_G1158G_Mountaineer_Sport_6X.html

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/410254-REG/Gitzo_G1058_G1058_Mountaineer_Weekend_6X.html

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/410253-REG/Gitzo_G1057_G1057_Mountaineer_Weekend_6X.html

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/378782-REG/Velbon_ELCARMA640A_EL_Carmagne_640A_Tripod.html

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/378768-REG/Velbon_ELCARMA530A_EL_Carmagne_530A_Tripod.html


As you all see, i didn't have posted about head but i will try to find a good head later, now i have 322RC2 head, and that 804RC2 is very great but it is attached to my 190XPRO [unremovable], and i see many here prefer 4882 head, so any recommendations about tripod so far?

[Cathpah]

tareq-
check out my sig, and in my opinion...it's the best travel tripod set up available.

Not sure if gitzo updated it since the g-lock series, but it's the smallest tripod that can actually still hold weight steadily and reliably.

absolutely no question...the one I have (and I never say that kind of thing...always "imho")

[Tareq]

tareq-
check out my sig, and in my opinion...it's the best travel tripod set up available.

Not sure if gitzo updated it since the g-lock series, but it's the smallest tripod that can actually still hold weight steadily and reliably.

absolutely no question...the one I have (and I never say that kind of thing...always "imho")

Thank you very much.
anyway, i posted about this one
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/410262-REG/Gitzo_G1158G_G1158G_Mountaineer_Sport_6X.html

I think this one you mean, there is another one which is out of stock and not sure if it is what you have or better than above
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/408476-REG/Gitzo_G1158_G1158_Mountaineer_Sport_6X.html

so which one you have? and where is the link where i can get same as your tripod?

[Cathpah]

Thank you very much.
anyway, i posted about this one
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/410262-REG/Gitzo_G1158G_G1158G_Mountaineer_Sport_6X.html

I think this one you mean, there is another one which is out of stock and not sure if it is what you have or better than above
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/408476-REG/Gitzo_G1158_G1158_Mountaineer_Sport_6X.html

so which one you have? and where is the link where i can get same as your tripod?

those are links for the 1158 and 1158G

I'm talking about the 1158T
...it's main advantage as a travel tripod is the fact that you can extend the center post to a height above which the legs can then fold up and in (tough to describe...you should google it) but basically it makes the tripod fold up as small as possible while still actually be a functional/high quality/effective tripod.

Just did a quick google and found this. out of stock here, but it's diagram explains what it can do: http://www.normancamera.com/product-exec/product_id/13470/nm/GITZO_G1158T_TRAVELER_TRIPOD

here's a good thread on luminous landscape where someone else gives his feelings: http://luminous-landscape.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=11267&pid=69087&mode=threaded&show=&st=&

his post is the second one.

and a quick review from a forum member here (teme): http://myphotogear.blogspot.com/2006/06/ultimate-travel-tripod_114952014344731395.html


you may have to do some searching to find one...I know really right stuff used to stock them as well, and like I say, gitzo may have updated it and there's a new model number.

best of luck

[Tareq]

those are links for the 1158 and 1158G

I'm talking about the 1158T
...it's main advantage as a travel tripod is the fact that you can extend the center post to a height above which the legs can then fold up and in (tough to describe...you should google it) but basically it makes the tripod fold up as small as possible while still actually be a functional/high quality/effective tripod.

Just did a quick google and found this. out of stock here, but it's diagram explains what it can do: http://www.normancamera.com/product-exec/product_id/13470/nm/GITZO_G1158T_TRAVELER_TRIPOD

here's a good thread on luminous landscape where someone else gives his feelings: http://luminous-landscape.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=11267&pid=69087&mode=threaded&show=&st=&

his post is the second one.

and a quick review from a forum member here (teme): http://myphotogear.blogspot.com/2006/06/ultimate-travel-tripod_114952014344731395.html


you may have to do some searching to find one...I know really right stuff used to stock them as well, and like I say, gitzo may have updated it and there's a new model number.

best of luck

Thank you very much.

Now this tripod is out of stock, what another tripod to get?

I can't want till this tripod to be in stock, i will order within this week or next week only, i will book next week and i will travel in the beginning of August.

Anyway, thank you very much for your reply at least.

[r.morales]

Small but important - are you going to carry up a mountain , use on beach for seagulls [ sand and salt added extra ] Going to take pictures at a nursery or time lapse sunsets , Someone's anniversary ?
What and where are very important when choosing a tripod . if you are carrying it the kind and comfort of bag are a big factor . Ask about spare feet and legs - you can order them doesn't cut it .
No bag or feet , go somewhere that carries them .

[Tareq]

Small but important - are you going to carry up a mountain , use on beach for seagulls [ sand and salt added extra ] Going to take pictures at a nursery or time lapse sunsets , Someone's anniversary ?
What and where are very important when choosing a tripod . if you are carrying it the kind and comfort of bag are a big factor . Ask about spare feet and legs - you can order them doesn't cut it .
No bag or feet , go somewhere that carries them .

you can say all or most of that, going outdoor like mountains and beaches and so.
I don't think i will get a bag for it but i will check.

[Cathpah]

Thank you very much.

Now this tripod is out of stock, what another tripod to get?

I can't want till this tripod to be in stock, i will order within this week or next week only, i will book next week and i will travel in the beginning of August.

Anyway, thank you very much for your reply at least.


it's out of stock there, and maybe even discountinued....but what i'm saying is that it would be worth the effort to do some digging/research and try to track one down.

[Tareq]

it's out of stock there, and maybe even discountinued....but what i'm saying is that it would be worth the effort to do some digging/research and try to track one down.

I did many searches and i posted those links from BH of what i found so far.
but i don't have experience with any of those links so maybe some here used some of those tripods i posted links so far.

[20DNewbie]

Well here's a tripod I came across the other day somewhere, can't for the life of me remember where though.

Link. (http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/14703-REG/Cullmann_CU2722_Magic_2_Tripod.html)

[jr_senator]

I can only suggest some issues to consider in making your choice. First, the more leg sections the more compact, but, also the more unstable. I don't care for any tripod that exceeds 3 sections. Both of my tripods have only two sections, a Benbo Trekker and a Bogen 3246 which would be out of the running for sure with your needs. And, second, I don't like a tripod that dosen't extend high enough without using a center column most of the time. Use of the center column also makes the tripod more unstable.

[Cathpah]

I can only suggest some issues to consider in making your choice. First, the more leg sections the more compact, but, also the more unstable. I don't care for any tripod that exceeds 3 sections. Both of my tripods have only two sections, a Benbo Trekker and a Bogen 3246 which would be out of the running for sure with your needs. And, second, I don't like a tripod that dosen't extend high enough without using a center column most of the time. Use of the center column also makes the tripod more unstable.

he's looking for a travel tripod.

i think getting a 3 section set of legs might be a bit ridiculous...although i certainly agree that 3 sections is better than 4 (or even 5). Just pointing out that it's a travel tripod and therefore ought to be darn small.

[Tareq]

and where i can find that PERFECT travel tripod where i get sturdy stability and 2 or 1 leg section and small enough to carry on bag or suitcase which is almost full of stuff.

[JohnJ80]

it's out of stock there, and maybe even discountinued....but what i'm saying is that it would be worth the effort to do some digging/research and try to track one down.

I think the replacement is the 1550T.

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/475899-REG/Gitzo_GT1550T_GT_1550T_Traveler_6X_Carbon.html

J.

[Cathpah]

I think the replacement is the 1550T.

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/475899-REG/Gitzo_GT1550T_GT_1550T_Traveler_6X_Carbon.html

J.

well at least someone did some digging! (ahem....tareq)

actually, that's not quite it. that one has 5 section legs whereas mine only has 4. The previous 5 section model was smaller and lighter than the one i went with, but also was a floppy piece of junk. supposedly this new g-lock technology is really helpful, so maybe this is now a functional tripod when holding more than a P&S


Tareq, did you decide which bodies you're bringing yet?

[Tareq]

well at least someone did some digging! (ahem....tareq)

actually, that's not quite it. that one has 5 section legs whereas mine only has 4. The previous 5 section model was smaller and lighter than the one i went with, but also was a floppy piece of junk. supposedly this new g-lock technology is really helpful, so maybe this is now a functional tripod when holding more than a P&S


Tareq, did you decide which bodies you're bringing yet?

ok i found the tripod i want finally [not that one posted above by JohnJ80].

Which bodies? All of them ..... kidding
5D is decided already, and i will think between 1DmkIIN or 30D;) what do you think, should i take both so no confusing?:p:lol:

[Cathpah]

ok i found the tripod i want finally [not that one posted above by JohnJ80].

Which bodies? All of them ..... kidding
5D is decided already, and i will think between 1DmkIIN or 30D;) what do you think, should i take both so no confusing?:p:lol:

considering you started this thread to figure out your tripod, do you want to share which tripod you decided upon?
or is that just a secret?

also, you already have one "which camera body to take travelling" thread....isn't one of those threads enough?

[Tareq]

considering you started this thread to figure out your tripod, do you want to share which tripod you decided upon?
or is that just a secret?

also, you already have one "which camera body to take travelling" thread....isn't one of those threads enough?

It is secret;)
no, not enough threads, just i want to have some threads before i travel, and so long nothing to share when you and others got MKIII and keep talking about it as it is the best magic camera in the world, even some sold some gear just to aford for MKIII, and i don't have MKIII so what to talk about here in this forum.:lol:

[Cathpah]

It is secret;)
no, not enough threads, just i want to have some threads before i travel, and so long nothing to share when you and others got MKIII and keep talking about it as it is the best magic camera in the world, even some sold some gear just to aford for MKIII, and i don't have MKIII so what to talk about here in this forum.:lol:


what to talk about? how about the tripod you got.

I gotta say, I think its a bit ridiculous to ask people for their help in deciding on a tripod, and then not sharing what you picked...all because you resent others for owning a 1d3. is your 1dsII not enough?

[JohnJ80]

what to talk about? how about the tripod you got.

I gotta say, I think its a bit ridiculous to ask people for their help in deciding on a tripod, and then not sharing what you picked...all because you resent others for owning a 1d3. is your 1dsII not enough?

Concur. I'd also put it as rude. The idea here is all about sharing what you know.

J.

[Tareq]

The tripod i look for is Gitzo GT1540T
it is out of stock, but not in all stores.
So the secret is no longer as secret
still i don't know if i should get GT1550T, it is in stock with B&H but first it is little more expensive [doesn't matter as 1540 is expensive as well and cheaper about $100], second, you said it is 4 stages so not good enough [unstable compared to 3 or 2 stages maybe?], so now i have to decide between those 2 quickly, maybe i want GT1540T but if that 1550 is great and that 4 stages is not a big issue then i'll order it right now.

About sharing topics, now even i post about something here, i will get few replies, but if i post that i got MKIII then it goes more than 200 replies maybe.

[JohnJ80]

You will not find a 3 stage tripod compatible with traveling typically - being longer than 22".

I'd go for the 1540T over the 1550T because of the lack of the extra leg segment, I think it would be more stable.

I have a 1258 which is about 1/2 lb heavier than the 1540 and even at that size, it is very compatible with travel and I'm willing to carry that all day long if necessary.

J

[Tareq]

You will not find a 3 stage tripod compatible with traveling typically - being longer than 22".

I'd go for the 1540T over the 1550T because of the lack of the extra leg segment, I think it would be more stable.

I have a 1258 which is about 1/2 lb heavier than the 1540 and even at that size, it is very compatible with travel and I'm willing to carry that all day long if necessary.

J

Ah ok, thank you very much

[SunTsu]

I'm also looking at the 1540T and was wondering what head would fit on top of it. The top of tripod mount looks to be very small in diameter, so I would think it needs a really small head. Does anyone know if the RRS BH-40 head will fit on top of the 1540T?

Tareq, would you be able to measure the diameter of the top of the 1540T? Thanks.

[Tareq]

I'm also looking at the 1540T and was wondering what head would fit on top of it. The top of tripod mount looks to be very small in diameter, so I would think it needs a really small head. Does anyone know if the RRS BH-40 head will fit on top of the 1540T?

Tareq, would you be able to measure the diameter of the top of the 1540T? Thanks.

Too bad i didn't get it yet and i have to order it.

[turboturtle]

I'm also looking at the 1540T and was wondering what head would fit on top of it. The top of tripod mount looks to be very small in diameter, so I would think it needs a really small head. Does anyone know if the RRS BH-40 head will fit on top of the 1540T?

Tareq, would you be able to measure the diameter of the top of the 1540T? Thanks.

Diameter is 1 1/2". The RRS BH-40 ballhead was a top heavy when I tried to put it on my 1540T. The BH-25 fits much better. I responded to your 27" tripod post. Here's my response:

Got the 1540T from B&H for $559.95. RRS didn't have it at the time. The 1540T with the BH-25 ballhead is my favorite tripod. Very light, easy to carry and setup and sturdy. I have about the same equipment you do (5D, 20D, 24-105mm, 70-200/4 L, 100mm macro, 580EX. Here's a picture of my 2530 with RRS BH-40 and 1540T with RRS BH-25 ballheads. The QR plate makes it really fast and easy to setup. I have not had a problem with any of my lenses and the BH-25 ballhead. Here's some links using the 1540T with RRS BH-25 ballhead.
1st visit to Waimea Falls:
http://www.hawaiitechnology.com/WaimeaFalls.html

Element Owners Club visit to Waimea Falls
http://www.hawaiitechnology.com/HEOC_WaimeaFalls.html


Attached Images http://75.126.234.18/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=192629&stc=1&d=1185517850

[SunTsu]

Thanks Turboturtle! Those pictures are really useful. It definitley looks like the BH-40 would look funny on the 1540T as the base of the head would be larger in diameter than the base of the 1540T. That would probably look top heavy in addition to being top heavy. :) What plate clamp do you have mounted on top of the BH-25? It looks like a full-size clamp to me and I thought you couldn't order the BH-25 with a larger clamp.

Mind you, after my recent bad experience with RRS, I might just go with Kirk. :( I'm afraid I might be tied to the RRS clamps though because I don't think the other plates will fit in my RRS clamp.

[SunTsu]

Wow. I just took a look at the shots you posted. The colors are really vibrant. Looks like you had some competition though. :) That one guy has his tripod right in the water!

[Tareq]

I want to ask if that GT1540T can work with the head 322RC2 from manfrotto? or any head from manfrotto? i don't have time now to order a head as my travel is very soon and for sure i will not get my order of head before the date of travel.

[turboturtle]

Thanks Turboturtle! Those pictures are really useful. It definitley looks like the BH-40 would look funny on the 1540T as the base of the head would be larger in diameter than the base of the 1540T. That would probably look top heavy in addition to being top heavy. :) What plate clamp do you have mounted on top of the BH-25? It looks like a full-size clamp to me and I thought you couldn't order the BH-25 with a larger clamp.
It's the RRS lever clamp for the BH-25. I also use the RRS plates.
Wow. I just took a look at the shots you posted. The colors are really vibrant. Looks like you had some competition though. :smile: That one guy has his tripod right in the water!
Yea. Our Honda Element Owners club has turned into a more serious photography club than my photography club. Now we have meets to take pictures rather than talk about our car mods.
I want to ask if that GT1540T can work with the head 322RC2 from manfrotto?
I've posted a picture of the 322RC2 on the 1540T. The base is larger than the RRS BH-40. I've also posted a picture of the BH-40 on the 1540T.
Hope this helps you guys out.

[Tareq]

It's the RRS lever clamp for the BH-25. I also use the RRS plates.

Yea. Our Honda Element Owners club has turned into a more serious photography club than my photography club. Now we have meets to take pictures rather than talk about our car mods.

I've posted a picture of the 322RC2 on the 1540T. The base is larger than the RRS BH-40. I've also posted a picture of the BH-40 on the 1540T.
Hope this helps you guys out.

Thank you very much.
so i didn't understand yet, do you mean that it is not compatible? not good enough to use with? base lager means it will affect on the work? not steady?
just i ask all these because as i said that i have only this head 322RC2 to use with the tripod and my 804RC2 is attached completely [non removable] to my manfrotto 190XPro, and i can't buy another head in this short time [about 1 week].

[turboturtle]

Thank you very much.
so i didn't understand yet, do you mean that it is not compatible? not good enough to use with? base lager means it will affect on the work? not steady?
just i ask all these because as i said that i have only this head 322RC2 to use with the tripod and my 804RC2 is attached completely [non removable] to my manfrotto 190XPro, and i can't buy another head in this short time [about 1 week].
The head just screws onto the 1540T but (in my opinion), it's a little large for carrying around. I really like the 322RC2 because it's faster to setup than a ball head but it's larger than a ballhead and it doesn't pan. I would be bothered by the pistol grip sticking out when carrying the tripod but it's really up to you since it is usable on the 1540T although it looks a little weird because the base of the 322 is so much bigger than the 1540T.

[Tareq]

The head just screws onto the 1540T but (in my opinion), it's a little large for carrying around. I really like the 322RC2 because it's faster to setup than a ball head but it's larger than a ballhead and it doesn't pan. I would be bothered by the pistol grip sticking out when carrying the tripod but it's really up to you since it is usable on the 1540T although it looks a little weird because the base of the 322 is so much bigger than the 1540T.

Ah ok, doesn't matter to me at all, i like this head, and just i don't have another head to go with so i can use it for a while, then later i will buy another suitable head for hanging out.

[Brrrt_tsssh]

this thread bemuses me through and through!!!

I thought u just buy a tripod, easy there its done. but now im more confused than ever AND i have already read the buying guide three times!!!

do I need to get legs, and a ball system and a qr system? I just want a tripod for travelling with, doesnt matter if its a wee bti ehavier, cant be massively expensive maybe up to 100 quid all in, and I would prefer ballhead, with the ability to pan so I can do pano's,

can anyone just recommend me something, doesnt have to be mega great quality or hold huge zooms , I only have a kit lens and possiblya 10-20mm which I will buy once i reach bangkok.


Please..make it simple!!!!

[jjasc]

If you even look at a Gitzo, you're going to have to sell kids, mortgage your house, etc. Don't mention cheap and Gitzo in the same sentence.

To get a real tripod setup, you will need tripod legs AND a ballhead. If you are traveling, you need some light but stable legs (the price won't be cheap though) and a LIGHT ballhead. There is no way you want to be carrying an 8 lb behemoth set of legs and a 2-3 lbs ballhead. You need some legs that fold up small that still extend to a decent height. They also have to be Light, so Carbon Fiber is a MUST.

Don't even consider aluminum legs.

"Gitzo Traveler": Absolute Best Legs you can get for travel/hiking: Be prepared to pay about $600 USD for them though. The fold up very very small, are very light, have all the fancy bells and whistles. And they cost a fortune.

"Fesiol 3441 Traveler": Legs that give you 90% of what the Gitzo Traveler offers for 50% of the cost. This is the tripod I got a couple weeks ago, and I am super impressed. The legs weigh (with center column) only 2lbs. If you spend an extra 25 USD, you can get the short column option and cut the weight down to 1.7lbs. The legs fold up to 16.9 inches WITH the feisol small ballhead--though I recommend a different ballhead. So the legs will fold up to 16.9 inches + the 2 or so inches for a ballhead. Still pretty darn small! The tripod, without the column extended, extends 55 inches. The Feisol only costs 300 USD +33 USD for shipping (www.feisol.com). Shipping only takes 4 days! This is the tripod I recommend. It's lighter than the Gitzo traveler, almost as stable, offers most of the features (weight hook, legs fold over the ballhead, etc), and is half the price. I will be writing up a review later today of the Feisol with lots of pictures.

Slik 614 or Slik 613: A decent set of CF legs for a really good price. The key here is that these legs are light and pretty cheap. Slik 614 only weighs about 900 grams and the Slik 613 about 700 grams. They fold up to about 17.9 inches. The 614 has 4 sections, allowing you a few more inches of height while the 613 has 3 sections and is a bit lighter. I owned the Slik 614 for a few weeks. Was a very good hiking/traveling tripod. I sold it, however, and purchased a Feisol 3441, which is a MUCH better tripod, offering many more features (far more stability, more height, and a weight hook for around the same weight, etc).

If you are traveling, you need a LIGHT ballhead. The Acratech Ultimate Ballhead is your best bet. It's solid as a rock, only weighs 1 lb, can support 25lbs, and is pretty much indestructible (the unique design allows you to wipe dirt off the ballhead--you can't do that with other ballheads). This is the BEST ballhead for traveling and hiking, bar none. RRH also make a light ballhead, but I feel the acratech one is much better for hiking. You get more freedom of movement than any other ballhead on the market (GREAT for macro shots).

You do need a QR system. The Acratech Ballhead comes with a Arca-Swiss QR clamp. The only thing you need to buy is a QR plate, which screws into the bottom of your camera (so you can attach and detach your camera to the QR plate). I think most of the "good' balleads come with a QR clamp (RRH, Arca-Swiss, Kirk, Acratech). If you opt for a cheapy ballhead though, it might not come with a QR clamp, and one of the QR clamps will cost you around 70-100 bucks, depending on which one.

As for QR plates, I can't recommend the RRH L-plate enough. The L-plate is a special QR plate that allows you to either mount the camera in vertical or horizontal positions. This makes a HUGE deal in the field. Read up about the benifits. The cost is well the cost. A custom fitted RRH plate is about 150 bucks. Expensice but completely worth the costs, imho. You don't know how much a L-plate makes life easier until you get one!


Summary:

Tripods
----------
If you have an unlimited budget: Gitzo traveler.

If you want the best quality, feature, price compromise: Feisol 3441 <--recommended

If you want the cheapest, lightest travel/hiking option that's decent: Slik 614



Ballhead
----------
Acratech Ultimate ballhead. The best hiking/travel ballhead, bar none. Kirk and RRH make some great ballheads that are slightly more stable with LONGER lenses (300mm and up), but for your lenses these ballheads are overkill.

I have the Feisol 3441 (with short center column option) + Ultimate Ballhead. It weighs only 2.7 lbs and folds down to 16.9 inches. It's so small I can slip it through the monopod hoop in my slingshot 200, which is how I use it.

Feisol 3441 + Ultimate Ballhead will costs you 333 for the tripod and 300 for the ballhead. 600 bucks may be steep, but it's an investment that will last your lifetime, and the tripod is fantastic for travel and hiking.

QR system
-------------
If you've gotten a good ballhead, you should have the clamp included. You only need to get a QR plate (50 bucks or so) or a L-plate (140 bucks or so).

[JohnJ80]

I'd disagree very much with what jjasc has written. It is much more a continuum than it is a case of something being 90% as good as the best for half the price. Would be nice, but is not so.

The purchase of a tripod is important one that few photographers pay enough attention to or understand properly. As a result it is not uncommon for those buying these to probably evaluate the "quality" more in terms of appearance (ie. graphics and paint) than in terms of actual functionality. It is very much a case of you get what you pay for because engineering and R&D costs money.

I've spent some time testing tripods (see here: http://www.prophotohome.com/forum/blogs/viewblog.php?userid=34252&entry=55)

The problem with tripods is that you are trying to mitigate vibrations in the neighborhood of 50um (50 millionths of a meter) that you cannot see or feel but that wreck your images. There are significant difference in the construction of the carbon fiber and in the quality and rigidity of the castings and leg locks. You pay more, you get more of each.

Read these links to understand the importance of doing this, how to handle vibrations in your gear, and how to save the most when you approach this problem.

Process of buying good support and pitfalls to avoid:
http://bythom.com/support.htm

Importance to your images:
http://www.luminous-landscape.com/essays/tripods_&_heads.shtml

What vibration does, where it comes from, and how to manage it in shooting with a tripod:
http://www.markins.com/charlie/report.html

Here are some other thoughts of mine on tripods:

http://www.prophotohome.com/forum/blogs/viewblog.php?userid=34252&entry=57

J

[jjasc]

Take a look at his lens selection, John. It's not like he's putting on some massive telephotos. For his shorter focal length, the Feisol's are a great choice.

And there is always the cost. Clearly, we all know that Gizo is "the best", but not everyone is in the position to pay out 600+ bucks for legs alone. If I only have 300 bucks to spend, well, I'd certainly settle for "nearly the best" over nothing at all, or some cheapy tripod.

It seems to me that people here are always lightening quick to condemn anyone who doesn't join the gitzo club. But people can certainly buy (Feisol) tripods that nearly match the Gitzo at half the cost. Sure Gitzo offers more stability and some fancy features, BUT I think 90% of the people won't notice the difference between the two tripods.

[squiress]

Sure Gitzo offers more stability and some fancy features, BUT I think 90% of the people won't notice the difference between the two tripods.

I question both of these statements. In testing I've done and posted here with a Gitzo and four Chinese knockoffs (to one degree or another) I demonstrated that stability was directly related to leg diameter, not manufacturer. A $160 Weifeng CF tripod with three leg segments (roughly 3 series Gitzo leg diameter equivalent) scored second best in my testing of five tripods with an $800 Gitzo 5540 besting it, but not by alot. The testing that John references above that he did confirms (as far as I can tell from the images he posts) that leg diameter is the key in my opinion. From a materials standpoint these are all pretty similar relative to non-CF models. Certainly for the less expensive CF models there are shortcuts in manufacture, and as far as the CF itself there different ways of building it, but all will be good right out of the box (let's not go back to the fishing rod analogy which obviously shows a marketing bent by Gitzo and not a fair characterization of CF technology applied to tripod legs).

Feature-wise I think that Gitzo may have a few more options in its Systematic series than Feisol, but when it comes to add-ons you pay through the nose for Gitzo case, feet and whatever else you want to add. My 5540 has no center hook (thread on Naturescapes as to how to add one using hardware store parts). My Benros and Weifengs came with case and wrenches and even spikes for leg tips to swap out (n6 Benros).

Because of some of those shortcuts (injection model heads (Benro) instead of gravity molded (Gitzo)) I would've put durability right up there as reason to spend more money. Since the only thing I've seen quoted lately as to issues with durability of Chinese knockoff tripods relates to MY Benro 128 leg lock, which wasn't an issue with stripped threads but one of part tolerance, and which continues to work just fine; and since I have read of numerous (more than five) Gitzo owners having legs come out of sockets and even one user that kept superglue with him to put his Gitzo back together when things separated, I'm not sure that I can even say that durability is a marked difference at this point.

If Brrrt_tsssh has been out here for awhile, he might have seen that those steups most recommended fall into three specific cost centers - 1) Gitzo CF tripods and RSS, AS, Kirk and Markins for ballheads for pros and serious amateurs, 2) Manfrotto Pro190B and Manfrotto 488 for amateurs and serious amateurs without long lens use (more than 300mm), and 3) those that have less to spend or who are willing to try and get more value for their money and go with lessor known or knockoffs (Dynatran, Feisol, Benro, Weifeng). Slik would probably fit in the latter group.

Given the needs expressed by Brrrt_Tsssh and limitations on spending I would probably agree with jjasc and consider something in the Slik line.

I currently have eleven tripods (five aluminum, six CF; two Gitzo, two Manfrotto, two Davis and Sanford (Tiffen?), three Benro and two Weifeng). Due to their weights I make use of CF almost entirely, although I consider all of them to be higher quality tripods. I put myself into the serious amateur catagory and shoot film in MF up to 8x10 LF. Digitally I have 20D and 5D and lenses out to 400 f/5.6.

We have a lot of choices today so it's not simple. In the end you need to weigh the OPINIONS of folks that post in places like this and make up your own mind. :D It's all part of the fun.

Stew

[jjasc]

I don't have a Benro, but I've heard more than a few bad things about those tripods form various posters.

Feisol, on the other hand, seems to be loudly applauded by everyone who owns one as a "cheaper" gizo. Some of these people have even owned Gitzo's.

You might notice a difference between a Gitzo and and a Feisol when using a 1D body + a 100-400m + extenders, but for anything under 200mm, no.

I agree that > diameter = more stability. My Feisol 3441 has 28mm legs. The Slik 614 only has 21mm legs (at the maxium diameter) and the lowest section of the legs are more like 8mm legs.

[squiress]

The Feisols I have seen on Ebay are all Systematic types and come with flat plates. The leveling type base is optional. Benro has added anti leg rotation and a copy of the Gitzo G-lock to their n6 line which does give them more features than Feisol. At the same time they don't sell a flat top plate tripod so there are tradeoffs. None of the Chinese knockoffs that get closest to Gitzo CF are cheap anymore. The Feisol you recommend is $300+ The C428/7 Benros are close to $500 on Ebay. And the Induros (Benro in US) sell for over $500 for 2 and 3 series. And marketing for the latter is huge at the moment. I have counted up to four Induro ads in a single copy of Outdoor Photography.

Stew

[JohnJ80]

Take a look at his lens selection, John. It's not like he's putting on some massive telephotos. For his shorter focal length, the Feisol's are a great choice.

And there is always the cost. Clearly, we all know that Gizo is "the best", but not everyone is in the position to pay out 600+ bucks for legs alone. If I only have 300 bucks to spend, well, I'd certainly settle for "nearly the best" over nothing at all, or some cheapy tripod.

It seems to me that people here are always lightening quick to condemn anyone who doesn't join the gitzo club. But people can certainly buy (Feisol) tripods that nearly match the Gitzo at half the cost. Sure Gitzo offers more stability and some fancy features, BUT I think 90% of the people won't notice the difference between the two tripods.

This is what I disagree with:

"Legs that give you 90% of what the Gitzo Traveler offers for 50% of the cost"

Not borne out by the testing I have done. Of the 5 tripods I have so far tested, there is a direct correlation to cost and performance and it appears to be nonlinear where the cheapies are much, much worse than the multiplier in the cost. I'd love to test a Feisol, but I'm not willing to buy one to find out (loan me yours?).

Long focal lengths are certainly subject to the problem of vibration, but so is a short focal length focused a short distance away. If you move the sensor 50um you cross roughly 5 pixel sites (and therefore some number of lines of resolution) and that will cause some level of blurring. Magnification is a factor but moving a camera is also one and it is the important one.

I'd also disagree with Stew's comment that my testing confirms the leg diameter is the issue. The two tripods I tested vary by the CF that is used (albeit by the same mfg) and that the leg locks are substantially different. He may be right, but there is a lot of other stuff in there that contributes too.

As for hooks etc... That very much depends on the tripod, I think. For mine that I tested, I could not for the life of me get either tripod to show any measurable movement if I dropped any weight on the floor next to the feet or even if I jumped up and down as hard as I could (I'm not a flyweight by any stretch) on wood flooring. Not a single wiggle. From that I conclude that unless one is on a bridge, near a large roadway with heavy vehicle traffic, near a train track (like where you can feel the vibration in the ground), or on a ship with a diesel engine running, this sort of vibration is not likely to cause a problem - or at least with the 1258 and 3540LS that I own.

That said, if a tripod doesn't do a good job of insulating the head from the vibration then it might be a problem. So, on some of the tripods that supply hooks, it just might be an important issue. I just know that on mine it is not. This may have also been realized by Gitzo on the 3540LS because it doesn't come with a hook and the smaller ones do. Something to ponder at least.

Tripods are heavily influenced by the torsional forces and that is what I believe is the most important design parameter. This goes to the rigidity of the castings, the legs etc... This is a problem in any sort of air movement and in counteracting any other vibration to the asymmetric load that a camera and lens are.

Finally, load rating is literally meaningless in looking at tripod performance from mfg to mfg and almost totally meaningless when comparing to tripods by the same mfg. This is another whole subject for discussion, but suffice it to say that if you rely on this you are basically wasting your time. How the load is mounted, the focal length and magnification are much more important but certainly not definitive.

I'd probably also agree with a recommendation Stew made in the third of his categories. The thing that the needs to be determined is how serious the user will be and how far they intend to progress with photography. If it to be very serious then one should stretch up the chain a bit. Less serious, down the chain, I suppose.

Stew and I agree on the need to test, the need for supplier common standards etc... We don't necessarily agree on the conclusions or the causes of high performance. That needs more testing for sure.

Finally, there is the underlying question of who knows more about the topic - the guy who did the original R&D or the guy that tried to copy it but doesn't have access to the original R&D. This goes to capability and competence and the associated risk to the user.

Bottom line - one has to be very careful when looking at tripods. Subtle differences which are often not visual, make large differences in Image Quality.

J.

[squiress]

John, what are the other three tripods that you tested, and are you going to post properly scaled laser images in augmentation of your testing post?

Oh, and as for Gitzo Dave's comments, whether he knows more or not, he still is in a position where marketing tends to WAY overpower technical disccussion. He is credible only as long as he discusses his stuff. When he starts to critique someone else's product he can only be assumed to be doing everything possible to make his look better (whether he actually is or not).

Thanks!

Stew

[JohnJ80]

John, what are the other three tripods that you tested, and are you going to post properly scaled laser images in augmentation of your testing post?

Oh, and as for Gitzo Dave's comments, whether he knows more or not, he still is in a position where marketing tends to WAY overpower technical disccussion. He is credible only as long as he discusses his stuff. When he starts to critique someone else's product he can only be assumed to be doing everything possible to make his look better (whether he actually is or not).

Thanks!

Stew

A sunpak 8000 and an older cheapie velbon - both aluminum. One is about $60 the other about $100 in today's dollars. The results are so bad (as in incredibly awful) that I'm not sure I believe them - literally. I haven't had the time to look at it and re-do the test. Qualitatively, I believe them because I did one attempt to use the slik in a breeze and the images were actually worse than when I shot the same handheld. All the hassle and none of the benefit.

As to Gitzo product managers statements -

I'm an engineer and I've been in sales, test engineering, design engineering and now senior management. I'm sure he is looking at it with a bias (aren't we all?) but that said, the better companies that have done the testing also have less of a bias than those that have the poorer products, in my experience. That's part of how they got to be the best - looking objectively at strengths and weaknesses. The companies that are not as good don't want to talk about it. Put this way, I'm more inclined to accept his statements on this than discount them but it is useful to consider the source.

J.

[squiress]

I have a old aluminum cheapie that I don't even count that I would expect to fit into the category of simply foolish to buy at any price. The real question that needs to be evaluated by more than me are the knockoff that are many hundreds of dollars but still considerably less than Gitzos, and I'd like to see a 190B evaluated. I think it's the same as my 3221 (3021 only black legs) but doesn't have that adjustable arm center column. I should test that.

I do think I have tested the Benro copy of the G-lock with the Weifeng 3 segment and a flip lock there (both 32mm upper tube). The Benro was slightly less stable by my measurements so I think a four segment G-lock gets close to a three segment traditional leg lock but not the same. BTW, I am confident that I can use Gitzo leg parts in my Benro n6 tripods and plan to down the road when normal wear and tear cause me to need replacements, so I don't think there's all that much difference mechanically there.

Appreciate you comments and our disagreement areas.

Stew

[JohnJ80]

You can use the Gitzo replacement parts on a Benro tripod and it isn't a knockoff?! We differ on the benefits and appropriateness of this.

The aluminum cheapies are just junk as are, I'm sure, the "CF" cheapies. The ante for a decent tripod is more than most starting out are willing to pay. I'd submit that anything that is <$100 and probably <$150 is pretty much in that category (in round terms/rule of thumb) if you are looking for anything that is <5-6lbs. You can get cheaper and better if you are willing to carry some serious weight. After that the benefits start to accrue rapidly however, the spread from cheapie to good stuff is large (I'd estimate at 2 maybe more orders of magnitude) so there is quite a gain of benefit to be had.

Probably from the point that you are out of the cheapie range, it starts to go somewhat linear to the good stuff. In other words if you buy a cheapie, you might as well buy the more inexpensive cheapie since there isn't much difference from the expensive junk to the cheap junk in terms of performance but you do get a better paint job. All pain, no gain.

J

[squiress]

You can use the Gitzo replacement parts on a Benro tripod and it isn't a knockoff?! We differ on the benefits and appropriateness of this.

I believe I am in complete agreement that these are ALL knockoffs to some degree. Benro is about as complete a knockoff as I think one could build (although the differences are there in CF build and molding techniques). The Feisols are excellent copies of the Gitzo Systematic tripods, although they do not incorporate G-lock or ALR and apparently don't want to. In addition, where I feel the parts will fit just fine, the Gitzo sleeves are a little longer than the Benro and I'm not sure the holes that hold the stubs that allow ALR are the same size so there may be a little adaptation to make it all work well. If the Benro parts do need to be replaced, I expect to do well with Gitzo originals. From everything I see in comparisons there is NO difference in Induro products and Benro as far as tripods. They are selling freely here under no apparent contention from Gitzo. I maintain that most products selling on store shelves today are the originals of successful products or copies of them to one degree or another so I simply don't have issues there.

The aluminum cheapies are just junk as are, I'm sure, the "CF" cheapies. The ante for a decent tripod is more than most starting out are willing to pay. I'd submit that anything that is <$100 and probably <$150 is pretty much in that category (in round terms/rule of thumb) if you are looking for anything that is <5-6lbs. You can get cheaper and better if you are willing to carry some serious weight. After that the benefits start to accrue rapidly however, the spread from cheapie to good stuff is large (I'd estimate at 2 maybe more orders of magnitude) so there is quite a gain of benefit to be had.


I remain impressed by the Weifeng brand. Here I get CF legs, decent flip locks, magnesium alloy head (why Gitzo sticks with aluminum instead of saving some weight with magnesium is another question that Gitzo Dave would not answer). The 4 segment 2 series (28mm upper tube) I just got off Ebay was $106 shipped. It's a nice tripod and I have no concerns that it lacks stability. There is more movement that I feel is due to the 4 segments rather than 3, but it's darn nice for the money. The three segment Weifeng 3 series (32mm upper tube) did very well in my testing and it was shipped at ~$160. Both are under 5 pounds.

Probably from the point that you are out of the cheapie range, it starts to go somewhat linear to the good stuff. In other words if you buy a cheapie, you might as well buy the more inexpensive cheapie since there isn't much difference from the expensive junk to the cheap junk in terms of performance but you do get a better paint job. All pain, no gain.
J

I have to agree for the most part. If you spend more than $500 for camera and lens you ought to consider at least 20% for tripod and head, possibly even 25% as a good rule of thumb. With a 5D purchase (body only) you need to consider a minimum $550 support solution. Any long glass and you ought to definitely be at 25% and maybe even more. With the C328n6 and Wimberley head I am at about $900 ($1050 for an Induro product) for support for a roughly $3800 camera lens system (5D + 400 f/5.6) or 24%. Upgrade the tripod to a Gitzo and you approach 30%. Something a professional shouldn't really think twice about.

Stew

[JohnJ80]

I have basic issues of intellectual property integrity with copying. (1) If you don't do the original work, it doesn't belong to you. Buying such knockoffs is not a whole lot different than knowingly buying stolen goods. (2) if you didn't do the original work, you don't really understand the technology - goes to basic capabilities.

J.

[squiress]

I have basic issues of intellectual property integrity with copying. (1) If you don't do the original work, it doesn't belong to you. Buying such knockoffs is not a whole lot different than knowingly buying stolen goods. (2) if you didn't do the original work, you don't really understand the technology - goes to basic capabilities.

J.

And I think that those issue should best be dealt with through the courts. We as consumers don't have the information to make those calls no matter what it looks like. I certainly don't see Gitzo saying anyone has stolen anything, and in fact they go out of their way to show how different the products are. I really don't care to go further on the IP issues. Feel free but I leave it here.

Stew

[JohnJ80]

Gitzo doesn't because there is no way to enforce it in China. (Have you been watching the news the last 6 months?) It's pointless to try and that doesn't make it right.

Let's just forget it. We've had this battle at least a dozen times. You won't change my mind, and I'm clearly not going to change yours. At least lets not bore everyone else with it.

J

[Tareq]

Great very informative long discussions over there :D
My Gitzo GT1540T is coming soon to me [arrived and out of delivery, but today is off day].
I will buy Gitzo 5-series later for longer heavier lenses and finished, so i have one tripod for travel [GT1540T], and one for hiking around with light gear [Manfrotto 190XPROB] and later one for those longer primes or heavy lenses or gear [Gitzo 5-series maybe 5540], what more tripods i need then?

[Tareq]

I want to discuss Ball heads or say heads in general, not only tripods are the issues.

[squiress]

Great very informative long discussions over there :D
My Gitzo GT1540T is coming soon to me [arrived and out of delivery, but today is off day].
I will buy Gitzo 5-series later for longer heavier lenses and finished, so i have one tripod for travel [GT1540T], and one for hiking around with light gear [Manfrotto 190XPROB] and later one for those longer primes or heavy lenses or gear [Gitzo 5-series maybe 5540], what more tripods i need then?

While the 5540 is a rock, you might consider dropping back one step to the 35XX series for long lens use. Even Gitzo considers the 5540 a Medium Format and Large Format tripod. I got mine primarily to use with an 8x10 film camera. I am not saying that it is at all overkill for your described use, only that the 35XX series would most likely meet your every need for most long lens use and turn out quite a bit easier to transport (5540 is pretty short (24"), but bulky with its almost 2" diameter legs).

Travel ballhead for the 1540 is easy. Simply buy a Markins Emile Q3. An amazing ballhead that is compact, wonderfully smooth, strong as an ox and light as a feather (almost).:D

Stew

[Tareq]

While the 5540 is a rock, you might consider dropping back one step to the 35XX series for long lens use. Even Gitzo considers the 5540 a Medium Format and Large Format tripod. I got mine primarily to use with an 8x10 film camera. I am not saying that it is at all overkill for your described use, only that the 35XX series would most likely meet your every need for most long lens use and turn out quite a bit easier to transport (5540 is pretty short (24"), but bulky with its almost 2" diameter legs).

Travel ballhead for the 1540 is easy. Simply buy a Markins Emile Q3. An amazing ballhead that is compact, wonderfully smooth, strong as an ox and light as a feather (almost).:D

Stew

OK, you gave me an idea, i will buy Gitzo 3-series first, i think 5-series is for MF or LF as you said and i am not sure if i am gonna that way in the future.
I will check that ballhead but it is late now as i will travel within 1 week and impossible to get that head in 1 week [if i order now and waiting].
Thank you very much.