Brightness mismatch between photoshop and windows viewer

[JoseC]

I am having a problem with photoshop 5.0 LE with the brigtness of the pictures.
If I adjust the brightness in photoshop, then in windows viewer or browser
the image is 15 points darker.
Interesting thing is that I do not have this problem with adobe photo deluxe home edition 3.1 I do not have this problem.
Any idea on how to fix that ?
Thanks
Jose

[maderito]

Photoshop is a color managed application. It adjust colors on your screen based on the color information in the image and the characteristics of your monitor. To work properly, your monitor must be calibrated (white point, black point, gamma, etc. set to proper levels) and this information must be saved in a "monitor profile" which is used by Photoshop.

For basic work, calibrate/profile your monitor with Adobe Gamma which comes with Photoshop (look in the Control Panel). Here's a tutotorial: http://www.computer-darkroom.com/ps8-colour/ps8_2.htm . There are more advanced, more accurate, and more expensive ways to achieve a better result. For example, see http://www.colorvision.com/ .

Finally, make sure you color settings in Photoshop are correct. The link at Computer Darkroom has some good advice.

[JoseC]

Photoshop is a color managed application. It adjust colors on your screen based on the color information in the image and the characteristics of your monitor. To work properly, your monitor must be calibrated (white point, black point, gamma, etc. set to proper levels) and this information must be saved in a "monitor profile" which is used by Photoshop.

For basic work, calibrate/profile your monitor with Adobe Gamma which comes with Photoshop (look in the Control Panel). Here's a tutotorial: http://www.computer-darkroom.com/ps8-colour/ps8_2.htm . There are more advanced, more accurate, and more expensive ways to achieve a better result. For example, see http://www.colorvision.com/ .

Finally, make sure you color settings in Photoshop are correct. The link at Computer Darkroom has some good advice.
Thanks for the advise, but whatever the kind of calibration I perform, there is
always a brigtness difference in photoshop 5.0 LE that displays brighter images than other graphic applications.
In other words, at the same time, same image in photoshop 5.0 LE and in windows viewer and it is brighter in PS5.0 LE
Jose

[Scottes]

I ran into this last night. I did a screen capture of a PS CS screen and pasted it into Paint Shop Pro and saved it to disk. I then opened the file in PS CS, which complained because the file had no color management. I chose "no color management" and opened it.

The colors were all wrong, very bright greens, yet a bit darker. I closed the file, opened it again and this time assigned sRGB to it. The colors were fine.

So my guess is that Windows is displaying the image "as is" and not assigning or assuming any color management.

[maderito]

Thanks for the advise, but whatever the kind of calibration I perform, there is always a brigtness difference in photoshop 5.0 LE that displays brighter images than other graphic applications.
In other words, at the same time, same image in photoshop 5.0 LE and in windows viewer and it is brighter in PS5.0 LE
Jose
Then Photoshop is compensating for differences in the color profile of your image and that of your monitor.

What kind of monitor do you have (LCD or CRT)? What is your working Photoshop color space (Adobe RGB or sRGB or something else)? What color profile is attached to your image (Adobe RGB, sRGB, or none)?

Sorry -- need these answers to track down your problem.

[CyberDyneSystems]

One quick fix you can try is to set PS to "Don't color manage" and see if this set's things so that it looks the same.

It should,,.. BUT this is NOT a solution.. it is more avoiding a solution.. as currently PS is the only thing showing the image colors with any sort of idea how they should be displayed...

[JoseC]

Thanks for the advise, but whatever the kind of calibration I perform, there is always a brigtness difference in photoshop 5.0 LE that displays brighter images than other graphic applications.
In other words, at the same time, same image in photoshop 5.0 LE and in windows viewer and it is brighter in PS5.0 LE
Jose
Then Photoshop is compensating for differences in the color profile of your image and that of your monitor.

What kind of monitor do you have (LCD or CRT)? What is your working Photoshop color space (Adobe RGB or sRGB or something else)? What color profile is attached to your image (Adobe RGB, sRGB, or none)?

Sorry -- need these answers to track down your problem.
Thanks a lot for your help :)
My monitor is a CRT IIYAMA Vision Master 404
My photoshop color space is RGB ( no more options in PS5.0 LE)
Right cliking on the image to get the properties I see RGB
I adjusted the gamma of my monitor in control pannels but this does not
change the problem ( brigtness offset between PS and windows)
That's all so far I can tell.
Jose

[JoseC]

One quick fix you can try is to set PS to "Don't color manage" and see if this set's things so that it looks the same.

It should,,.. BUT this is NOT a solution.. it is more avoiding a solution.. as currently PS is the only thing showing the image colors with any sort of idea how they should be displayed...
Thanks CDS.
Unfortunately, my PS version does not allow "Don't color manage" :(
Jose

[maderito]

Do you have a 10D or the DRebel. If the 10D, are you shooting "standard" (which is sRGB) or Adobe RGB?

[JoseC]

Do you have a 10D or the DRebel. If the 10D, are you shooting "standard" (which is sRGB) or Adobe RGB?

I have a Powershot G3
Jose

[maderito]

OK -- we've come full circle! I don't have the G3 or Photoshop LE5.0, but I think I know what's going on.

You're G3 captures images in sRGB color space and I believe Photoshop LE processes images in the same color space. So far, so good.

Most CRT monitors *when well calibrated* should have a color space that approximates sRGB. Thus images should look about the same inside Photoshop (color managed) and outside - not exactly the same - just similar.

You must have an accurate monitor profile stored on your computer that Photoshop can read. That's what Adobe Gamma Utility does. It helps you calibrate your monitor (not real accurate, but OK for general purposes) and then writes a monitor profile file that is eventually used by Photoshop.

If you're calibrating and profiling with Adobe Gamma correctly, images should look similar (but not exactly the same) within Photoshop and outside. In Photoshop, you are looking at true sRGB color (assuming good monitor calibration). Outside of Photoshop, you are looking at the monitor color space.

Thus - this comes down to monitor calibration. Assuming your monitor is not old and near brain dead, you should be having better success.

Please be sure you are using the Adobe Gamma Utility properly. Anything you change and save will affect what you see in Photoshop.

BTW - I'm assuming you have a PC. Things are a bit different on a Mac.

You could post an image and let us see what you images look like on our computer monitors (in and outside of PS). You might be surprised. :) :)

[maderito]

Check this thread (http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&threadm=3bb3fc55.-1%40webx.la2eafNXanI&rnum=2&prev=/groups%3Fq%3Dwindows%2Bxp%2Bpicture%2Bviewer%2Bcol or%2Bmanagement%26hl%3Den%26lr%3D%26ie%3DUTF-8%26selm%3D3bb3fc55.-1%2540webx.la2eafNXanI%26rnum%3D2) for some further tips that might solve your problem.

I looked at your website. Wonderful pics in beautiful places! Do these images look different inside of Photoshop?

[JoseC]

Thanks all for your help.
The problem is not solved yet :(
I think the problem is related to the fact that I do not have Adobe Gamma
available in my control pannel ( I searched everywhere without success).
I guess if I was able to use Adobe gamma to calibrate my CRT, PS5.0LE should use this information and make pictures inside and outside PS5.0LE the
same brightness.
I do have an utility in control pannels that does a gamma calibration , but when I do that, the brightness offset between inside and outside PS5.0LE
remains the same.
Thanks again.
Regards
Jose
PS: I did not had this problem at the very beginning I started using PS5.0LE
and I am wondering if installing the tryout of PSElements messed up the thing ( PS Elements has been uninstalled )

[maderito]

The Adobe Gamma Utility performs a number of functions, most not obvious:

- Provides a rough means for calibrating your monitor.
- Writes an ICC monitor profile (a file) to your computer which describes, in part, the results of the calibration.
- On Windows startup, ensures that the generated ICC profile is actually used by the operating system. This involves the "Adobe gamma loader" which interacts with system video card and its color look up table (LUT). This program resides in your Windows startup folder.
- Enables Photoshop to recognize and use the monitor ICC profile.

A word of caution: I don't know how Photoshop LE 5.0 works and whether it relies on the above.

But from what you have said, I do know your monitor is not calibrated properly. I looked at this image (http://perso.club-internet.fr/jscpll/aout2003/slides/g3%20ibiscusrose.html) on your website. It is dark on my monitor, both inside and outside of Photoshop. It corrects nicely with levels adjustment. Perhaps the original image looked too light in Photoshop on your monitor and you darkened it. That's what I'm seeing. On the other hand, you may have preferred the darker, more contrasty image?

I think it's worth you time to call Adobe support. The solution is probably straight forward. Good luck -- you truly have a beautiful set of images that are worthy of your efforts.

[dn7elson]

The Adobe Gamma Utility performs a number of functions

First thing that I needed to do after getting the Colorvision Spyder is to remove Adobe Gamma from the Startup folder/directory. Since it is now gone, and Photoshop is more than happy with the Spyder generated icm for the monitor, Gamma's importance is somewhat diminished :D .

If you don't have any other means of color management, it is a good basic tool. Otherwise, it is an unneeded, basic tool.

[JoseC]

The Adobe Gamma Utility performs a number of functions, most not obvious:

- Provides a rough means for calibrating your monitor.
- Writes an ICC monitor profile (a file) to your computer which describes, in part, the results of the calibration.
- On Windows startup, ensures that the generated ICC profile is actually used by the operating system. This involves the "Adobe gamma loader" which interacts with system video card and its color look up table (LUT). This program resides in your Windows startup folder.
- Enables Photoshop to recognize and use the monitor ICC profile.

A word of caution: I don't know how Photoshop LE 5.0 works and whether it relies on the above.

But from what you have said, I do know your monitor is not calibrated properly. I looked at this image (http://perso.club-internet.fr/jscpll/aout2003/slides/g3%20ibiscusrose.html) on your website. It is dark on my monitor, both inside and outside of Photoshop. It corrects nicely with levels adjustment. Perhaps the original image looked too light in Photoshop on your monitor and you darkened it. That's what I'm seeing. On the other hand, you may have preferred the darker, more contrasty image?

I think it's worth you time to call Adobe support. The solution is probably straight forward. Good luck -- you truly have a beautiful set of images that are worthy of your efforts.
Thanks Maderito for your help and nice comments on my pictures.
I checked this image and it is a little bit dark on my monitor and much brighter inside photoshop.
You're right, the only way to go from now is to contact adobe technical support.
I also think that having the limited edition does not help very much to fix this problem.
I did'nt find adobe gamma in my installation CD ....
Best Regards
Jose
PS: I checked your pictures and found them full of live.
This is the kind of pictures I can not get with my G3 that has a very slow shutter release and also very grainy at high iso setting ( for me high is 400)
Congratulations.

[JoseC]

Here is a screen capture illustrating what is my problem.
Notice that to match brightness I need to decrease it in PS5.0LE by
17 points , meaning that I can not rely on what I see inside PS :(
If you have noticed my image are a little bit dark, here is the reason.
I tried everything I can try, installing, uninstalling, installing french
version, us version and allways the same problem.
Seems to be associated with the 5.0 LE version because
PS elements tryout, PS 5.0 tryout , photodeluxe home edition
are working OK with respect to this problem.
I am going to send this screen capture to Adobe technical support.
Thanks for your support.
Jose

http://perso.club-internet.fr/jscpll/ps50lebrigtnesspb.jpg

[JoseC]

Tried with Adobe support , but they dont support 5.0LE , only CS :(
They dont even sell versions 5,6 or 7 , only CS and Elements :(
I am very disappointed with Adobe.
Regards
Jose

[geecee]

Something everyone appears to have missed up till now. Photoshop 5.0 LE is NOT color managed and does NOT come with Adobe Gamma.

[maderito]

Something everyone appears to have missed up till now. Photoshop 5.0 LE is NOT color managed and does NOT come with Adobe Gamma.
Excellent point! Maybe Adobe support could have passed that little tidbit along. :shock:

JoseC, the original poster, did install other Adobe editing products. Although they were apparently uninstalled, fingerprints from the original installation could still be around. Whatever the case, the monitor still needs calibration as already discussed.

[dtrayers]

If you don't have Adobe Gamma Utility and don't have any hardware calibration tool, try WiziWYG.

http://www.praxisoft.com/pages/products.wiziwyg.html


You can download the software for free and use it to calibrate your monitor.

[JoseC]

If you don't have Adobe Gamma Utility and don't have any hardware calibration tool, try WiziWYG.

http://www.praxisoft.com/pages/products.wiziwyg.html


You can download the software for free and use it to calibrate your monitor.
Thanks for trying to help, but I managed to get Adobe gamma, but this does not change the offset of brightness between ps5.0le and windows.
I have installed the tryout of ps5.0 that came with the same cd ( blunded with my G3) and everything is working OK with ps5.0
Tried also to run ps5.0le from the ps5.0 tryout folder, but this does not fix the
problem.
The question I have is that this bigthness offset is not there in purpose on ps5.0le to oblige us to buy a full version ( Elements or CS)
I was very happy with ps5.0le since I discovered this brightness problem.
Regards
Jose