Help design a Photo Program for the San Diego Wild Animal Park

[Killer Angel]

Hey my name is Patrick and I work in the Education Department at the San Diego Wild Animal Park. I want to start a photo program and want your guys input on this. I am open to ANY ideas. This is a great way to express your ideas and ways YOU would like to see the animals.


To start off the discussion, here a few questions.



What time would you rather take photos, sunrise or sunset?
I know that is dependent on the landscape and time of year a lot, but is there any one you would rather do?



What animals would you like to get closer up to photograph?
Lions, Tigers, Gorillas, Cheetah, Rhino, Elephant, Meercats or anything else you can think of.



Would you rather do a 4 hour program, whole day, or week long program? And if it is more than 1 day, would you rather go home and come back the next day or sleep over at the park?



Would you want a "training" session to talk about good wildlife photography styles and/or ethics?

I know a lot of us know how to take photos and know our equipment fairly well, but lots of people don't know about approaching animals and giving them space, so this may be important.



Would you like a talk on the animals as well or just try to stick more strictly to photography?



If you were to book a tour, how many people would be too many? Over 20? 10-20 or keep it to under 10 people?



And last but not least, how much would you spend for lets say 4 hours... $30? $50?



I hope we can make this grow and get a good turnout! I would love to see a photo class or program get started at the park! If you guys have any questions either post them here or shoot me a pm, I would be glad to answer any questions or if you want a special tour of the park I may be able to arrange something!



Patrick

[JWright]

Hey my name is Patrick and I work in the Education Department at the San Diego Wild Animal Park. I want to start a photo program and want your guys input on this. I am open to ANY ideas. This is a great way to express your ideas and ways YOU would like to see the animals.

Admirable idea, but there are a number of reasons you might be wasting your time. The Wild Animal Park already offers a couple of photography programs that are pretty popular.

To start off the discussion, here a few questions.

What time would you rather take photos, sunrise or sunset?
I know that is dependent on the landscape and time of year a lot, but is there any one you would rather do?

Either would be nice, but given the orientation of the park, sunrise would probably be better. The twice-yearly Photography Sleepover (http://www.sandiegozoo.org/calendar/wap_photo_sleepover.html) covers both nicely.

What animals would you like to get closer up to photograph?
Lions, Tigers, Gorillas, Cheetah, Rhino, Elephant, Meerkats or anything else you can think of.

It's hard to get any closer to the Lions than is currently possible at the Lion Camp exhibit. I've seen them come right up to the glass to investigate the visitors. The current Photo Caravan (http://www.sandiegozoo.org/calendar/wap_photo_caravan.html)covers the field exhibits and allows visitors to get close to Giraffes, Rhinos and other animals for photography (and hand feeding).

Would you rather do a 4 hour program, whole day, or week long program? And if it is more than 1 day, would you rather go home and come back the next day or sleep over at the park?

The current Photo Caravans are either 2 or 3¾ hours in length and the Photography Sleepover runs from 3:30 PM to 9:00 AM the following day.

Would you want a "training" session to talk about good wildlife photography styles and/or ethics?

I know a lot of us know how to take photos and know our equipment fairly well, but lots of people don't know about approaching animals and giving them space, so this may be important.

Would you like a talk on the animals as well or just try to stick more strictly to photography?

The Photo Caravan guides provide a wealth of information on the animals seen in the field exhibits. They are very knowledgeable and can usually answer most questions. The Photography Sleepover includes a photographer from the Zoological Society as an instructor and mentor for the program.

If you were to book a tour, how many people would be too many? Over 20? 10-20 or keep it to under 10 people?

It would depend on the method of transportation for the tour. The Photo Caravan trucks get a bit crowded and make it difficult to shoot sometimes. Not having done a Photography Sleepover for several years, I can't say about the number of people they are booking for those.

And last but not least, how much would you spend for lets say 4 hours... $30? $50?

Given the current prices of the two Photo Caravan tours and the Photography Sleepover, I think you're dreaming if you think the Wild Animal Park would institute a $30-$40 four hour Photography program. If they did, it would be wildly popular, but with the current state of the Zoological Society budget, I don't see it happening any time soon.

I hope we can make this grow and get a good turnout! I would love to see a photo class or program get started at the park! If you guys have any questions either post them here or shoot me a pm, I would be glad to answer any questions or if you want a special tour of the park I may be able to arrange something!

Patrick

The Photo caravans have been an on-going activity at the Wild Animal Park for years and are very popular with park visitors, even those who are not serious photographers. The Photography Sleepover returned this year after not having been offered for several years. The first one (in May) was a sell-out.

What I would like to see in the way of photography programs at the Wild Animal Park (and the zoo) is an on-going photography series that might be day-long events that would include a brief lecture on an aspect of photography (with each program covering a different subject), an animal presentation (similar to the Animal Encounters), a period of shooting and then a critique session. I'd also like to see the Photography Sleepover offered more than twice yearly.

Another activity that offers good photo opportunities although not specifically a photography program is Cheetah Run Safari (http://www.sandiegozoo.org/calendar/wap_cheetah_run_safari.html). It is possible to get very close pictures of a Cheetah at full stride at this program.

[th3r0m]

To start off the discussion, here a few questions.

What time would you rather take photos, sunrise or sunset?
I know that is dependent on the landscape and time of year a lot, but is there any one you would rather do?

I pretty much prefer sunset, but I am night owl so mornings are difficult for me. However, the best time of day I think would be when the animals are most active and you are more likely to get a shot of them (even though the lighting will probably not be the "best" in photographic terms)


What animals would you like to get closer up to photograph?
Lions, Tigers, Gorillas, Cheetah, Rhino, Elephant, Meercats or anything else you can think of.

Any and all of them, as close as you can safely get me.

Would you rather do a 4 hour program, whole day, or week long program? And if it is more than 1 day, would you rather go home and come back the next day or sleep over at the park?

I would rather do a whole day or week long program, although a "once-a-week for a month or two" type progam would be pretty cool as well, Depending on how long the program runs and how much "teaching" you do, I think it would be neat to see the improvements in the photos from beginning to end.

For a two day jaunt, I think overnight would be very cool, especially with a night tour type thing.

Would you want a "training" session to talk about good wildlife photography styles and/or ethics?

I know a lot of us know how to take photos and know our equipment fairly well, but lots of people don't know about approaching animals and giving them space, so this may be important.

Definitely, especially because many of the person's who take the class/tour will have very little in the way of previous experience doing this type of photography.

As far as equipment talks, I think many people are going to have basic point and shoots, maybe an slr on green box mode. A short talk on composition (rule of thirds) and possibly selecting the right "mode" depending on the situation would probably do for most people.

Would you like a talk on the animals as well or just try to stick more strictly to photography?

I think that talking about the animals as well as photography would be great, especially if you can offer personal info about the animals (names, habits, funny stories) that people just walking around the zoo would not know. I know that I always like getting to know the people I photograph, so why not the animals as well.

If you were to book a tour, how many people would be too many? Over 20? 10-20 or keep it to under 10 people?

I think that it really depends on the space available at each exhibit and the general age of the people in the group, but I would shoot for between 10-20, as it is a more easily controlled group size and it less likely to get out of hand than a bigger group. Smaller groups are always better, but I don't know that they would be as economically feasible as larger ones, unless you maybe charged more and provided a bit more.

And last but not least, how much would you spend for lets say 4 hours... $30? $50?

It depends on what exactly is being offered (tour + classroom briefing, access to areas the public does not otherwise have access to, etc) I think that $30 is almost too low, I would say $50 would be more than reasonable. For a class that went over several days/weeks I think that 150 to 200 depending on content would be easily doable.

I hope we can make this grow and get a good turnout! I would love to see a photo class or program get started at the park! If you guys have any questions either post them here or shoot me a pm, I would be glad to answer any questions or if you want a special tour of the park I may be able to arrange something!

I hope that you are able to get things going and it takes off for you. Good luck and I hope to hear more about your success :)

[JWright]

Something I should have asked in my earlier post... Is this something you are undertaking on your own or has the Wild Animal Park tasked you to come up with ideas?

[Tee Why]

What time would you rather take photos, sunrise or sunset?
Generally animals are more active early than later in the day.

What animals would you like to get closer up to photograph?
Generally, the big cats, big apes, and other big mammals like the elephants are popular. Getting great shots of animals takes patience, I'd stick to more time with less animals rather than spending a few minutes on all the animals. This way you can do a rotation. One week Lion and Cheetah, next week, Rhino and Elephant, etc.

Would you rather do a 4 hour program, whole day, or week long program? And if it is more than 1 day, would you rather go home and come back the next day or sleep over at the park?
Me personally, I'd stick to a 1/2 day program so you stil lhave time for enjoying the rest of the view on your own. But this would be highly dependant on the program.

Would you want a "training" session to talk about good wildlife photography styles and/or ethics?
This may be best served while shooting rather than spending valuable time prior to the photogrpahy tour.

I know a lot of us know how to take photos and know our equipment fairly well, but lots of people don't know about approaching animals and giving them space, so this may be important.
The most serious photogs probably won't take tours in zoos as they will probably travel to shoot in wild life. I suspect this type of program will draw the folks that are getting into photography/animal shooting and will see a value in learning about photography on the subject of their liking (animals). So instead of just driving people to get close to animals early in the day as it's done at WAP, having an instructor to give advice like a photo workshop would make the experience better.

Would you like a talk on the animals as well or just try to stick more strictly to photography?
Ideally a bit of both, such as what behavior is photogenic and what the behavior means.

If you were to book a tour, how many people would be too many? Over 20? 10-20 or keep it to under 10 people?
I'd say just about 10 or less. Over 10, then stuff gets in the way.


And last but not least, how much would you spend for lets say 4 hours... $30? $50?
It really depends on what's included. If it includes a workshop atmosphere where you are learning photography, I'd say about $80-100 or so. If you are just being driven around to get closer to animals, less. It's really dependant on the perceived value of the experience.


I hope we can make this grow and get a good turnout! I would love to see a photo class or program get started at the park!
Already PM'd you.

Take a look at my shots from my first outing to the WAP.
http://tomyi.smugmug.com/gallery/2650346/1/140744366#140744366

[gooble]

Something I should have asked in my earlier post... Is this something you are undertaking on your own or has the Wild Animal Park tasked you to come up with ideas?

Since OP said this: "I work in the Education Department at the San Diego Wild Animal Par" I would assume they are in charge of these classes or has been given an assignment.

[JWright]

\Since OP said this: "I work in the Education Department at the San Diego Wild Animal Par" I would assume they are in charge of these classes or has been given an assignment.

I never assume anything. Because the OP said "I (emphasis mine) want to start a photo program...", I want him to clarify his position on this. I don't need you or anyone else answering for him...

[SeanH]

Hey my name is Patrick and I work in the Education Department at the San Diego Wild Animal Park. I want to start a photo program and want your guys input on this. I am open to ANY ideas. This is a great way to express your ideas and ways YOU would like to see the animals.


To start off the discussion, here a few questions.



What time would you rather take photos, sunrise or sunset?
I know that is dependent on the landscape and time of year a lot, but is there any one you would rather do?



What animals would you like to get closer up to photograph?
Lions, Tigers, Gorillas, Cheetah, Rhino, Elephant, Meercats or anything else you can think of.



Would you rather do a 4 hour program, whole day, or week long program? And if it is more than 1 day, would you rather go home and come back the next day or sleep over at the park?



Would you want a "training" session to talk about good wildlife photography styles and/or ethics?

I know a lot of us know how to take photos and know our equipment fairly well, but lots of people don't know about approaching animals and giving them space, so this may be important.



Would you like a talk on the animals as well or just try to stick more strictly to photography?



If you were to book a tour, how many people would be too many? Over 20? 10-20 or keep it to under 10 people?



And last but not least, how much would you spend for lets say 4 hours... $30? $50?



I hope we can make this grow and get a good turnout! I would love to see a photo class or program get started at the park! If you guys have any questions either post them here or shoot me a pm, I would be glad to answer any questions or if you want a special tour of the park I may be able to arrange something!



Patrick

Sunset

All Animals

3 hours, I'd say 6pm -9pm (in the summer)

No training, maybe a quick "what not to do" on the way out.

Save the "about the animals" for the 4th graders. Personally I'd show up to get great shots, nothing more.

Under 10 people........or how ever many could line up (all with 400mm's) on "the shot side" of whatever vehicle is being used. I'd hate to have to push someone into a hungry lion for bumping me when I'm trying to shoot.....:wink:

Keep it at $50 or above this might weed out the non serious ones, and keep it a quality experience. For 30 bucks your gonna get a family with 9 kids and there camera phones......LOL


Also check your PM's, I live 10 Min from the park and would like to check out what you have in mind.

[Killer Angel]

Thanks you guys for all of your input. I assure you I will keep all of you guy’s inputs in mind when I am trying to get this program running. A few people asked if I have been assigned with the task of creating this program by the park or initiating this on my own. The answer is my own. I think we have some good photo opportunities at the park, but there is a range for a great deal more. We are always looking for more programs and I have already brought this idea up with a few head honcho's which sound interested depending on how the turnout goes for a test pilot when everything is set (if I can get the go-ahead). What I have read so far here and in other forums is this:

For the most part people are interested in either a 1.5 day program or one for about 4 hours. My guess is a 4 hour tour would runs somewhere in the range of $50. For a 1.5 day trip (3pm or so + dinner and breakfast with sleepover till 9am or so the next day) would be between $100-$150. The 4 hour photo tour could be a once a week or more deal if we have enough interested people, and the sleepover maybe once a month.

Most people would like to see the big cats (Lions, Tigers, Cheetahs) and a fair amount of people interested in Rhino's, Elephants, primates and Giraffes.

It's split on whether or not to teach anything photography wise, but there is pretty much a solid consent on talking about photography ethics so far as approaching animals and traveling through their habitats. I believe that during the afternoon when people arrive that would be the first thing we could talk about.

As for how many people, I think 10 would be the upper limit on the 4 hour tours, and for sleepovers we could do more but be split up into smaller groups when photographing.

I have had some people comment that we have photo caravans. While this is true, they ONLY go into the middle of the large enclosures. We would be able to go behind the scenes into the animal bedrooms, and MANY other animals that they do not see, such as our mountain habitat. This is a great place for amazing animals and is a perfect place for a sunset photo shoot.

One of the big questions I have gotten so far is whether or not the photographers can retain copyrights of the photos taken. I cannot give you an answer right now. That is far above my head in Public Relations so I will have to get back to you on that.

Again thanks for all your input and I’ll keep everyone updated on how things go. If you have any more questions/comments please feel free to ask!

Patrick

[JWright]

Don't get me wrong. I think what you are trying to do is great, but I think you've a long uphill climb, and I think you're being way too optimistic on what you think a four hour photo program might end up costing.

The Wild Animal Park only brought back the Photography sleepover this year after an absence of over seven years. It may take some time before they institute a new program. Considering the 3½ hour Photo Caravan costs $130 for adults, not including park admission of $28.50, and the 1½ hour Cheetah Run Safari is $69, I really can't see them offering a four-hour photo tour for less than $100, not including admission.

Regarding the policy prohibiting commercial use of pictures take at the zoo and park... I've talked to people from the Public Relations department at the Zoo, and I got the impression the policy was pretty much "written in stone" and was not subject to change. The existing policy allows the photographer to do pretty much what they want with the images, as long as the use is not commercial, i.e. selling them.