Environmental Portraits, stop bouncing light?

[incendy]

I am getting more into environmental portraits but am having trouble controlling the light. I am using a two light setup, one softbox and fill with a white umbrella in most cases. I am happy with the light for the subects but not happy about the background being lit by the bouncing light. Just curious how you all handle this? Thanks in advance for suggestions/feedback!

[freebird]

maybe faster shutter speed...would that help?

[incendy]

maybe faster shutter speed...would that help?

not that I have noticed.. With strobes and the 5d, 200 is the fastest you can really get!

[sleibrand]

I read a recent thread that covered this quite well - think it was TMR that started it?

Light falls off with the square of the distance.

To make up an example - if you shoot with the lights 5' from the subject and the lights are 10' from the background, you'll see a 2 stop difference between subject lighting and background lighting (twice as far = 1/4th the light). If you move the lighting so that it's 2 feet from the subject and 8' from the background, you'll now see a 4 stop difference in the lighting (background receives 1/(4*4) =1/16th as much light).

Not sure if I explained that clearly, if not let me know and I'll try again.

[incendy]

I read a recent thread that covered this quite well - think it was TMR that started it?

Light falls off with the square of the distance.

To make up an example - if you shoot with the lights 5' from the subject and the lights are 10' from the background, you'll see a 2 stop difference between subject lighting and background lighting (twice as far = 1/4th the light). If you move the lighting so that it's 2 feet from the subject and 8' from the background, you'll now see a 4 stop difference in the lighting (background receives 1/(4*4) =1/16th as much light).

Not sure if I explained that clearly, if not let me know and I'll try again.

That makes sense! I can see it in the shots too!! Thank you!

I guess this leads to the question of tight spots and from what I have read this requires curtains or anything black to stop the light from reflecting. I would think the reflector would have to be pretty big to stop light from a softbox though, any suggestions regarding this?

[TMR Design]

HI incendy,

Please tell me the dimensions of the room and the subject to background distance.
You mention wanting to control the light that is bouncing around. Are you referring to the light that is returning to the subject area from the background light?
If I can see or read a description of your setup it would help. You might just need some flags or black panels for negative fill but it could also be your lighting.

[incendy]

HI incendy,

Please tell me the dimensions of the room and the subject to background distance.
You mention wanting to control the light that is bouncing around. Are you referring to the light that is returning to the subject area from the background light?
If I can see or read a description of your setup it would help. You might just need some flags or black panels for negative fill but it could also be your lighting.

Hi TMR! I am having the problem in pretty much any small room with white walls and by small room I mean 17x12 or so. Most of the time I try to expose two stops over the background but in small rooms the light from the subject is bouncing and lighting the background too. I only have two lights but even if I use just one in a small room it seems to cause this issue. The distance from the subject to the background is quite small in some cases even 5ft or so! The lighting setup is traditional 45 degree main with fill over camera on fill side. thank you for the help!

[TMR Design]

incendy,

When doing portraiture in a small room you can take advantage of very close lighting. Not only will this increase the apparent size of the light source, making it softer, but it will also help you isolate between subject area and your background. With only 5 feet between subject and background you really want to get in close with your main light and you'd be much better off using a reflector panel ot even simple white foam core as your fill. The technique you're using now for fill is correct and works well but you have to be very careful to make sure that the fill light is not reaching the background area, and more than likely you are getting some fill light on your background.

I would move your main light nice and close to your subject and use a reflector for fill and I can pretty much guarantee that you're going to see a marked improvement in the isolation between subject area and background.

[bieber]

incendy, if you want to narrow the beam spread from a softbox, you'll want to put a grid on it. Here's directions on making one, if you don't feel like paying for it: http://strobist.blogspot.com/2006/09/150-no-way-diy-softbox-grid-for-under.html

[TMR Design]

There's no reason to buy or make anything incendy. I'm sorry to have to disagree with the previous post but as much as a grid might help it is not necessary. Regardless of having the spill problem or not you want to move your main light source nice and close to increase the apparent size of the light source and create the softest wraparound light you can.

Right now the light is bossing you around. You need to turn the tables and get control of the light to make it do what you want.

[incendy]

There's no reason to buy or make anything incendy. I'm sorry to have to disagree with the previous post but as much as a grid might help it is not necessary. Regardless of having the spill problem or not you want to move your main light source nice and close to increase the apparent size of the light source and create the softest wraparound light you can.

Right now the light is bossing you around. You need to turn the tables and get control of the light to make it do what you want.


I appreciate all of everyone's help! I will see if I can get the light any closer, but normally I have it as close as I can get without it being in the shot. Maybe a mixture of the grid with closer light will work! I will play tomorrow and try everything out!

[TMR Design]

When you say close, how close is the light to the subject?

Do some testing to determine which light is the cuplrit. Quite often it is the fill light if it's fired into an umbrella as you're doing. The reflector will help big time when you need to control light reaching the background.

[incendy]

When you say close, how close is the light to the subject?

Do some testing to determine which light is the cuplrit. Quite often it is the fill light if it's fired into an umbrella as you're doing. The reflector will help big time when you need to control light reaching the background.

I will try that first! if that works I will be so happy, cause I am not sure I have the skills to make the grid:)

[airfrogusmc]

70% of the work I do is environmental portraits. When I use a light I use only one light and a reflector. A softbox in close to the subject. That will keep light from filling the room. Camera on a tripod and drag the shutter. Say your ambient light is 5.6 at 1/4 sec. Start buy setting light/softbox at f 8 and aperture at f 8. That way the ambient wont over power your main. If you want the background darker set your shutter speed to 1/8 of a sec.
Heres a shot I did using this very technique.
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/airfrogusmc/DrThompsonShurgin.jpg

If I remember right the ambient light was two stops down from my light/softbox.

Heres another...
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/airfrogusmc/DrShownkenbw.jpg

On this one I metered for the monitors and the room. The room was only one stop down from the softbox. I rarely use umbrellas because they spread to much light in the room. I use one light and a reflector because it gives me more control. I hope this helps. With a little practice you can get very good at it and as you see it works.

[incendy]

Those photos are awesome AirFrog!! Exactly what I am looking to do.. One question, but how do you get the subjects in focus with a shutterspeed of 1/4 second? I realize that the light will freeze them, but if they move any won't there be a kind of ghost effect?

[airfrogusmc]

You explain to your subjects what you're doing (that you are taking a long exposure) and shoot allot of frames. I've never not gotten a good usable image.

[Murphy66]

I also do a lot of environmental shooting for publication.

What I was taught was 1) get the lighting set up correctly for your subject using your lights (softbox, diffusion panel, whatever) and then 2) Drag your shutter speed until you get the exposure you want in the background.

Think of it this way, your subjects will be correctly lit for the duration of the flash, not the duration of the shutter. By slowing the shutter speed, you allow more light into the camera and that is your background exposure.

This is a shot taken with an AB800 and a diffusion panel set up as closely to the subject as possible (it was problematic due to the shape of the room). I exposed for her and then dragged the shutter until the background lightened up. In my first exposure, the background was completely black. I did multiple shots until the background warmed up to where I wanted it.

And btw, I was in and out in less than 30 minutes. Most subjects don't have time to 'pose'. I did my lighting tests before she arrived using a magazine cover propped up on a footstool. Once I got that dialed in I started dragging my shutter to get the background. She was only in front of the camera for five minutes.

And yes, I know the focus on the subject is soft. I relied on auto focus instead of manual focus. I know better. I should always manual focus in low light!

[incendy]

thank you AirFrog and Murphy! I experimented a bit yesterday and I am starting to get the hang of it! Your help has been so valuable to me!! Thanks again everyone that replied!

[airfrogusmc]

You got a half hour? With pysicians your lucky to get 10 minutes. If you meter the room and put the ambient one stop down from your lights that will give you a great place to start.

[TMR Design]

Hi airfrogusmc,

Can you please explain what you mean by "meter the room". What is the process? Where and from what are you taking your readings?

[airfrogusmc]

I usually take an incident reading. I have an OLD Minolta 4 flash and ambient meter. I meter the brightest part of the room and then set my light for 1 stop higher than that and expose for my light so that will let the ambient room light go one stop less. So for example my main light is F 8 the I would want to put the room at F 5.6 to start. That will probably mean adjusting shutter speeds top get it there. You could also take a spot meter reading of something about 18% gray in the room for your ambient reading but your still going to need to meter your main light.

[TMR Design]

Ahh ok thanks. SO if that is the case then why not just use a gray card ? Wouldn't that be the most accurate way, by placing the gray card in the same light and metering that for the ambient?

[airfrogusmc]

That would be ideal. I'm so used to doing it I can usually tell whats about 18% gray in the room or better yet what I want to be 18% gray or I will sometimes use my spot meter and find the hot spot and open up to stops from that. I was just giving another option if you didn't have an incident meter. I was trying not to confuse some. You can always use the palm of your hand and open 1 stop if you're Caucasian.