General Concert Photography Tips?

[pbone]

I'm lining up to see the Shins in 8 days, and I want to get some general tips on shooting.

1) Good lens? I'm looking to get a 50mm f/1.4 in the next day or two, and i have the 24-70mm f/2.8.
2) Is it appropriate to use the flash? I'm also going to pick up a hot shoe extender thing from my local camera shop (3rd party.) I don't really want to ruin the ambient light or anything, but I want to get the shot!
3) What else do I need to know? I already know about having to use a high ISO, what else?
Gear, shooting tips, placement, etc.

Here are some of my friend's shots. I want them to turn out half as good as his!
http://www.flickr.com/photos/trisoliniandsau/sets/72157594352766923/

[_aravena]

Hope. don't use a flash ever since I saw what happens when you do. Kills the whole effect. I use a 70-200 but if you can get close enough I'd just stick with the 24-70. F2.8 is fast enough with stage lighting and the right ISO. I stick to 400 but sometimes go to 800. Heck, depending on light and if you have space, I was far back and shot at F9 for sharpness so I could crop, it worked. Best to have a monopod though if you try that.

http://a647.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images01/122/l_e924ec64754181a6043f244a1784094e.jpg

http://a949.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images01/90/l_28183e13aa5b8f3cd11c2a39f4ea355c.jpg

[bacchanal]

Start by reading Dwight's FAQ
http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?t=226809

The 50 1.4 is a very good starter lens for concerts and is relatively versatile for a prime. You can use all the way up to ISO 3200 if you need it. Getting the shutter speed and correct exposure is what is important, noise is something you have to live with sometimes. Use the RGB histogram to make sure you aren't blowing out certain color channels. Metering is always an adventure, and most people probably shoot in Av mode with some +/- EC or in Manual depending on what the lights are doing. Flash is generally not a good idea, but it depends on the type of band/venue you're shooting. Since you're using a prime, ideally you want to be able to move around a bit. Though, you can always take a wider shot than you need and then crop later. If you can't move around look for a spot that has shooting lanes between mic stands, keyboards, etc...and on that note, be aware of distracting elements in your photos like mic stands, other people, clutter in the background. And of course, in general try not to cut off guitar heads unless you're shooting tight on purpose.

[tipsy]

what they said.. ^

:p

x

[Steve Parr]

The 24-70mm f/2.8L is one of my main concert lenses (along with the 70-200mm f/2.8L). If you can get close enough to the stage, it'll do you right.

Leave the flash at home, kick the ISO up to 1600 and have a big ol' time.

Oh, and read Dwight's FAQ section...

[pbone]

I read the FAQ, but it seemed to be more focused towards posting etiquette and less towards actual concert photography...

[Pekka]

I read the FAQ, but it seemed to be more focused towards posting etiquette and less towards actual concert photography...

Ok, I'll tell you what you should concentrate on. It's not lenses (use fast ones), it's not flash or not (not), It's not what ISO (use highest if needed) --- it's all about what and who you shoot and why. What are you trying to do there? What are you trying to express?

Good concert photos are done through living the music, respecting the band, being there, getting the moment, capturing energy. Have some mental goals, think about the images you want to get, think about the style you aim to - and then if the situation is very different in actual shoot be ready for that too, mentally.

There are many style preferences like reportage (analytic, sharp, faithful colors), portrait/stock (half and face portraits of artists, full band shots), stage action (fisheye wide, audience and band, band members together), emotional/art (go close, zoom in, closeups, show movement) and something in between. If you are on assignment you shoot for client's needs. How you shoot depends also on target media. If you shoot for yourself, it's your choice. Whatever you do, don't think about these things it in the pit, choose you strategy beforehand.

You can not change lenses in the pit unless you are practically alone: there is dust, people fighting for room and no place to put the lenses down. That is why you will need to have a vision, and choose the gear which gets you there.

Learn you camera so well that you do not have to think about it at all when shooting.

Do not think what others have done, think what you want to see on your screen, on prints and on covers.

[::John::]

wow

excellent post

[johnstoy]

Excellent summation of this Art by Pekka... The basis and foundation for our methodology, takes some serious considerations of the many factors involved...

My very next post, hopefully will represent the more artistic interpretation of a seasoned, performing entertainer... Check out Southside Johnny & the Asbury Jukes... I should have the thread posted in the next couple of days...

I went to the show with my 24-70mm and the 70-200mm 2.8L IS and the 30D, with the objective of capturing the creative side of Southside Johnny... I think, I suceeded... Check it out when you get a chance... (PS: I'm just waiting for the band's feedback first.)

[_aravena]

well, for me I tend to shoot the band more than the singer. I played drums and guitar so I'm more interested in how they play and try to get them in their moment. They tend show themselves getting lost in their own music more.

[JeromeL]

i've shot concert photography for about a year now. and like pekka said, it's really your vision and what YOU"RE trying to express. sometimes i use a flash, sometimes i don't. I find it handy to keep it in my bag, but that's just me being a strobist. I recommend scoping the place out before the music begins, know where you can be and what shots you can get from there.

[simonSE15]

excellent post Pekka

[pbone]

for this one, the venue is set up pretty standardly. There's a gen. ad. standing area, then a metal guard, some empty space, and then an elevated stage. The show begins at 8, and I'm already setting up to get there at 3.

[FotOz]

Hey pbone. All good advice. I shot a concert here in Oz a couple of nights ago. Used my 350D set at ISO1600. 70-300 USM lens. No Flash. No tripod. Shot all RAW files. If you wanna see the results, check my post from yesterday re Dragon.

[skifurthur]

I have found that since I have joined this forum that reading as many topics as possible and getting involved, giving critique when asked and listening to critique when given, has helped me more than most primers. I have been exposed to many styles and techniques that I wasn't aware of. Often I get artistic ideas and techniques, even if I don't like the pictures I see.

As in anything in life, you get what you put into it. Good luck with your journey.

[René Damkot]

Pekka summoned it up nicely.

[pbone]

I did enjoy pekka's post, but I'm also looking for tips on the technical side.

[greenlight]

I take a lot of pics inside at concerts using my canon A620. The rotating lcd is great for holding the camera overhead. Getting close to the stage is critical, as well as being on the left side of the stage so you have a good view of the guitars (unless he's playing left handed).

NEVER use your flash inside to take pics of bands. It's rude and annoying and shows where you are, the inexperienced photographer. If there isn't enough stage lighting to take a good pic, that's tough, like if everything is red the whole time. Otherwise, there should be plenty of stage lighting to get a good shot. Wait until the lights are good and bright to get your shots.

I like to take my pics using iso 50. The images are less noisy than the higher iso pics. Maybe other cameras are more forgiving in this respect. Shutter speed of 1/20 is about as slow as you can go before the artists start to become blurry. When the lights get brighter you can increase the speed a little.

I always set my camera to take multiple shots while holding the shutter button. That way I can discard all of the blurry shots and keep the nice ones. I delete A LOT of photos, but get some good ones, too.

Don't delete your pics that are too dark. If there's any data in the pic, you can bring it out using photoshop or picasa. Sometimes the darkes pics look the best when you blow them out. Underexposed pics are easier to fix than overexposed pics.

If you had to sneak your camera in you should turn off your LCD, too. That makes it tough to review pics, but at least you'll get some.

Don't forget to take pics of the marquee and signs of the bands while you're there, for memories.

Here's the winner of the signed MASTODON guitar. This pic was taken without flash and the brightness boosted:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v516/green-light/mastodon031.jpg

Here's a pic of ALICE IN CHAINS:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v516/green-light/AliceinChains096.jpg

Here's Jerry Cantrell: You can see that the slow exposure gave an interesting effect:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v516/green-light/AliceinChainsjerry1.jpg

[bacchanal]

I did enjoy pekka's post, but I'm also looking for tips on the technical side.

Lighting situations differ so much there are no general guidelines for camera settings etc. You need to know how to meter for high contrast situations including strong back lighting or a very bright subject against a very dark background...and just about anything else imaginable. Experience and preference will dictate how you do this.

Pekka is right that mental preparation is key, and knowing your camera is a big part of that. I only wish I was at the point where I could just focus on the shot, but still, if I go in with a game plan I typically do okay. Knowing the music is big, but if you aren't completely familiar with what is going on keep in mind that music is repetitive to a point. Look for patterns in movement and pay attention to the music itself to try to anticipate the moment.

For what it's worth here are my typical settings (on a 30D):

File: RAW
Histogram: RGB
WB: Kelvin @ 2800 (or tungsten)
ISO: 800-3200
Shutter Speed: ideally at least 1.6 X focal length (for crop camera), I will go down to 1/40th or even lower with the 50 1.4 in extreme situations.
Custom Function 4-1 (Shutter half press = AE lock, * button = AF)
Custom Function 8-1 (ISO Expansion on)
Custom Function 13-1 (AF point selection on Multi-controller)
Aperture: generally between 1.4 and 2.8, but sometimes higher for shots where I need more DOF or there is a lot of light.
Mode: Manual w/ spot metering if light is constant (Use RGB histogram to dial in proper exposure) or Av with +/-EC and Center Weighted Avg metering for dynamic lighting (-EC for dark background, +EC for bright background). Use RGB histogram to check for blown channels.
Focus: AI Servo
Focus Point: Manually selected. I stick with the center point in difficult focusing situations (it is a more accurate cross-type focus point when used at f/2.8 and wider apertures).

[pbone]

Thanks. That's what I'm looking for. As for EV, did you mean that -EV CAUSES a dark background (and vice versa) or is USED with a dark background?

[simonSE15]

for this one, the venue is set up pretty standardly. There's a gen. ad. standing area, then a metal guard, some empty space, and then an elevated stage. The show begins at 8, and I'm already setting up to get there at 3.

by "empty space" do you mean the pit? will you have access to this? and why are you planning to get there 5 hours before the show starts?

if you use +ev the faces will probably be blown out and theyre the most important thing -edit, if spot metering on face.

[bacchanal]

Thanks. That's what I'm looking for. As for EV, did you mean that -EV CAUSES a dark background (and vice versa) or is USED with a dark background?

Use -EC for a dark background. The camera will try to overexpose because the background is dark. You need to compensate for this by lowering reducing the exposure.

+EV is used when you have a bright background (your subject is darker than the background), such as a bright projection screen or something.

[DwightMcCann]

I don't think you read the Performing Arts FAQ based on your comments. It is a sticky near the top of the list of threads here in the performing arts forum. However, what Pekka said is really the essence ... the quality of the equipment is much less important than the quality of your eye. But you will always be at the mercy of the available lighting and energy/character of the performers, so try to be mellow, "Don't Worry, Be Happy!"

[FotOz]

For what it's worth here are my typical settings (on a 30D):

File: RAW
Histogram: RGB
WB: Kelvin @ 2800 (or tungsten)
ISO: 800-3200
Shutter Speed: ideally at least 1.6 X focal length (for crop camera), I will go down to 1/40th or even lower with the 50 1.4 in extreme situations.
etc etc etc).

Hey bacchanal - I agree with YOUR idea of how to shoot a show (and after looking at your web-site I know where you're coming from), but I'm going back to the beginning of this post where the author is looking for the bare-bones basics of getting under way. I think he must crawl before he learns to walk. The most pertinent thing you have said is to shoot RAW and use an high ISO. If he starts there and blazes away I feel sure he'll get some great shots, and be able to then customise and perfect his style.

No criticism intended with your comments, just adding another 2c worth from me. Cheers.

[NZDoug]

Dont outrock the rockers and leave their wimin alone.....;)

[narlus]

File: RAW
WB: Kelvin @ 2800 (or tungsten)


if you shoot raw, then you don't need to worry about setting white balance, correct? same thing w/ sRGB vs Adobe RGB color space?

[René Damkot]

Almost.
In camera settings will affect the histogram and preview. Contrast, WB, saturation, whatever, will all cause the preview to look more or less what the Raw will look like after your 'default' processing. (whatever that is).
IMO it's best to get the preview / histogram to display as much info as you need: WB as close as possible (Tungsten when indoors, AWB or daylight for an outdoors festival).
Contrast -1 or so. (Since you can adjust exposure a bit when developing a CR2)

[Dellboy]

Here's my take on the deal

Take a flash if you have one but don't use it unless you have too - you don't know how the lighting will pan out and for some pix of the punters you'll probably need it.

Use what ever iso you need for that shot some areas will be darker than others and if you've got more than one lens you're aperture will change. Be prepared to change ISO quite often.

Shoot RAW if you've enough memory flashing light can be an exposure nightmare.

As Pekka said plan you shots

Try dragging the shutter with flash and slow shutter speed - great for people dancing/raving but don't try it with the band unless you know they are totally cool with it.

Enjoy the tunes and preformance.

[johnstoy]

I read the FAQ, but it seemed to be more focused towards posting etiquette and less toward actual concert photography...

This time, I would suggest reading all of the threads posted in this forum, and asking specific questions regarding your interests...

We've addressed your type of question often in the past, and it's basically the same answers all of the time... This is something you shouldn't expect to pick up on overnight...

With time and new threads started by you, with samples of your work, and posting of questions by you, will bring you the best results...;)

[narlus]

Almost.
In camera settings will affect the histogram and preview. Contrast, WB, saturation, whatever, will all cause the preview to look more or less what the Raw will look like after your 'default' processing. (whatever that is).
IMO it's best to get the preview / histogram to display as much info as you need: WB as close as possible (Tungsten when indoors, AWB or daylight for an outdoors festival).
Contrast -1 or so. (Since you can adjust exposure a bit when developing a CR2)

good to know, thanks!

[freebird]

Shooting flash .........phewwwwwwww. I personally would rather pack my gear up and just drink brewskies......:D You just dont get the concert effect and it you soon draw lots of attention. Just my opinion.

[shannyD]

how does anyone feel about the Canon 85 mm f/1.8 USM EF Lens? ive read some things about it, how its fast, and how people say that its awesome in a low light setting? and i ask because this is a related topic of something that im interested in trying sometime soon i hope. but ask because there are a few people on myspace who have taken some great photos with one, in super small venues, and their photos came out very nice.
thank you.
shannon

[johnstoy]

Here are some real good results from two shows... used only the 85mm f1.8 prime on a 30D...

http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?t=332379

http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?t=304314

[shannyD]

Here are some real good results from two shows... used only the 85mm f1.8 prime on a 30D...

http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?t=332379

http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?t=304314


so would it be worth it for me to purchase this lens? or the other one that everyone else is talking about?
shannon

[johnstoy]

so would it be worth it for me to purchase this lens? or the other one that everyone else is talking about?
shannon

Get this f1.8 version, cause it is said that the 85mm f1.2 is better for actual portraits and weddings...

The 85mm f1.8 is fast focusing and is the next best thing to "L" glass... It is known as the best "bang for your buck" in the Canon lens line... Also consider the Canon 50mm f1.4 Lens... it too has the same reputation as the 85mm 1.8...

Here is a link to another entire show shot with the 50mm f1.4...
KANSAS @ Penn's Peak, Jim Thorpe, PA March 9, 07 rocks a full house - w 50mm f1.4

Link: http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?t=288808

[FotOz]

Shooting flash .........phewwwwwwww. I personally would rather pack my gear up and just drink brewskies......:D You just dont get the concert effect and it you soon draw lots of attention. Just my opinion.
You're right you know.
And to show the difference, I've posted the 2 variables.
These are not great shots (they're not even good shots) but I put them up purely to show the difference in ambience and mood etc when shooting a concert.

[FotOz]

. . . and how good is that last shot? 70-300 lens @ 300mm. ISO1600, hand-held, RAW and using only the pop-up flash.

[mukhabarat]

. . . and how good is that last shot? 70-300 lens @ 300mm. ISO1600, hand-held, RAW and using only the pop-up flash.I can't tell if this is sarcasm or not.

Are you really trying to say "flash is always bad and kills the mood" based on the fact that the pop-up flash combined with a 300mm shot at 1600 iso looks crappy?

[Dellboy]

I can't tell if this is sarcasm or not.

Are you really trying to say "flash is always bad and kills the mood" based on the fact that the pop-up flash combined with a 300mm shot at 1600 iso looks crappy?


It's a fair point :lol:

[johnstoy]

FotOz, the two pics you posted are out of focus/shaken or something is wrong... What lens did you use and what settings?

The EXIF isn't available so I can't give you any additional feedback regarding your two pics...

[Steve Parr]

Shooting flash .........phewwwwwwww. I personally would rather pack my gear up and just drink brewskies......:D You just dont get the concert effect and it you soon draw lots of attention. Just my opinion.

Oh, but your opinion is accurate.

A week and a half ago, my wife and I went to see Blues Traveler. We had 11th row seats, right in the center.

Some clown in the 9th row had what looked like a Nikon D200 and some long lens. He also had a flash. I don't know how he got the gear in, but he did.

He took a few shots without the flash. I could see his LCD from my seat, and the shots were all dark. He fired up his flash (by the way, 9th row is still a real good distance from the stage) and took a few more shots with it.

His shots were still pretty dark, but the flash garnered the attention of three very large security types, who swooped in, got his camera, and escorted him out.

That was probably a good thing because, once he started using that flash, I think the guy in front of me in the 10th row was getting ready to kill him...

[Steve Parr]

Here are some real good results from two shows... used only the 85mm f1.8 prime on a 30D...

http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?t=332379

http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?t=304314

Man, I gotta' start using that lens more often. I rarely take it to shows...

[narlus]

Man, I gotta' start using that lens more often. I rarely take it to shows...


i shot Cat Power a couple of weeks ago, and the club she played usually has real good lighting. i am glad i brought the 85 f/1.8 with me, since i was not getting enough light for the 70-200 f/2.8 lens.

[DwightMcCann]

Man, I gotta' start using that lens more often. I rarely take it to shows...

Hey, Steve, I got some good shots of Ray Parker playing his acoustic Taylor that I'd be willing to license to your Player Relations guy! :lol::lol::lol:

[FotOz]

FotOz, the two pics you posted are out of focus/shaken or something is wrong... What lens did you use and what settings?

The EXIF isn't available so I can't give you any additional feedback regarding your two pics...
If you read my post you'll see that I said they were not great shots, not even good shots - posted purely to show the differences in the ambience and mood between flash and available concert lighting. There will be no EXIF because these are captured using SendPhotos Gold so I can reduce the large files enough to post them here without reducing them to postage stamp size. I say again - 300mm lens (read - "300 x 1.6 - 480mm actual"), hand-held etc. These are the ones that DID NOT turn out. As for settings - most of the shots came in around 1/40 @ f5.6 from memory. You're gonna get camera shake for sure, despite the fact most of them were taken from around 15 - 20 metres away. If I wanted to run around the venue with a tripod I'd have been tripping up myself or others. Don't read too much into the post. Just read it.;)

[Steve Parr]

Hey, Steve, I got some good shots of Ray Parker playing his acoustic Taylor that I'd be willing to license to your Player Relations guy! :lol::lol::lol:

Hey, I'm sure he'd be willing to pay you with a nice "Thanks, Dwight" and a "Hey Steve, buy the old guy some lunch"!

Our Artist Relations guy is my new best friend. I've talked to him about getting credentials for both Styx and America; two of my favorite groups when I was growing up, and the outlook appears promising...