40D on its way?

[JuStDaVe]

http://www.livingroom.org.au/photolog/reviews/canon/canon_eos_40d.php

[boink]

a 30D with a 10.1mpx sensor and cleaning?

I doubt it, it would flop hard and canon would be making a huge mistake. There already wasn't a big enough advancement from the 20D to the 30D.

[BigBlueDodge]

Canon did the same thing with the XT to XTi. I'm almost confident that is what the 40D will look like. Get ready people, you will be dissappointed.

[BigBlueDodge]

And then when Canon releases their "upgraded" 40D with 10.1 MP camera, Nikon will come along and upgrade their 10MP D200 to 12MP and trump Canon.

[TomHuckWa]

10 mp? Digic 2 processor? Thanks Canon. I can keep my 20Ds and save money.

[mogearnotalent]

keepin my 20D, its more camera than I have skill and those who say there is no reason really to upgrade until your skills match are right, I think after seeing others pictures here the best camera is in your head

[circa]

I personally don't think you can improve much upon a 30D without taking it to the next level which is either a 1.3x crop body or a FF body. They have the XTi so who would want a xxD camera just like it?

[photography By Evangelos]

Is it me or is progress slowed down a bit? This is it for the upgrade? Not too thrilled. It seems there is a need for a camera that is between the 5D and the 30D. Now what you would call it is anybody’s guess. Come on Canon we are ready now! Last few release have been dismal. I see a slowing down of the crazy upgradeing that we have seen in the past.

Angelo

[oddne]

This is an "old" rumor, it was posted on that site February 21... I would NOT count on this, at least not for a release now. Also, first day of PMA is over... and now sign of a new camera (thank God, since I bought a 5d 2 days ago ;) )

[HuskiesD1]

How do we know this is right? I've seen no confirmation for it.

[JohnnyG]

Old rumor just like oddne said.

[lostdoggy]

Rumors by Noink!!!

[Juan Zas]

Don´t panic

This is the "incremental" model specs that Canon did retract after the dealers & user response when it was leaked. Canon did send the 40D back to be revamped with a new design that "probably" is coming out next fall, when the 30D stocks decrease and also after its 18th month cycle. Or may be a new camera comes up ... !!

[TBAATAR]

Rumors by Noink!!!

you mean Nike-On.

why is it so hard for americans to pronounce it as Nikon :rolleyes:

[OKCPhotogrpaher]

If you click on the link above it, it takes youto a XTi

[byso]

I have a 30D, but id the 40D has the new DigiIII sensor it will be tempting.

[JBF]

If that is all Canon is planning on doing, forget it. I will not be spending my money. However, I don't know where this 30D is going to fit anymore. Too much upgrading and it messes up the 5D or the new Mark III. Plus a 30 frame burst is pitiful when you compare it with the new Nikon D40X which will go for 100 frames before filling up the buffer.

[Juan Zas]

If that is all Canon is planning on doing, forget it. I will not be spending my money. However, I don't know where this 30D is going to fit anymore. Too much upgrading and it messes up the 5D or the new Mark III. Plus a 30 frame burst is pitiful when you compare it with the new Nikon D40X which will go for 100 frames before filling up the buffer.

I think the Canon strategy after we have seen is re-develope the 40D (no more incremental models), and let the 30D finish its life cycle in between (18 months) to reduce stocks by rebates & kits. Next fall, when the substitute it will available, it would be an out of production item.

[calicokat]

We shall see :)

[RDNZL]

I think that you can tell how reliable that link is by the ads:

They have the 30D USA listed for $379!!

[JohnnyG]

you mean Nike-On.

why is it so hard for americans to pronounce it as Nikon :rolleyes:

We pronouce it correctly, it's the british that says "nik-on"! Americans say "Ni-Kon"!:D Or no-ink or whatever the case may be!:lol::lol::lol:

[Apemaster]

It is a Japanese company. The Japanese pronounce it "knee-con", surely you have your answer there. Just like over here in England.
Sorry, I couldn't resist defending the English (from England, funnily enough) language there... :lol:

[JohnnyG]

It is a Japanese company. The Japanese pronounce it "knee-con", surely you have your answer there. Just like over here in England.
Sorry, I couldn't resist defending the English (from England, funnily enough) language there... :lol:
Sounds good to me!:lol:

[DRAGUI99]

Hello,

Just had a call with my local shop, and they told me that the 40D will be announced in July....

Happy Summer !
Sam

[SuzyView]

I've heard that before. ;)

[DRAGUI99]

I know what you mean... But i'm not the kind of guy starting rumours... ;-)

[brucea]

Yeah, but can you vouch for the guy at the camera store?

[m3incorp]

Now would that be a release in France?

[rammy]

Hello,

Just had a call with my local shop, and they told me that the 40D will be announced in July....

Happy Summer !
Sam


Pah! Rumours, rumours! Whenever it is (if ever) released, I just hope it is a decent upgrade. And the price, why pay the premium (which does help to recover development costs). Pros or gear heads with cash will get "it" when "it" comes out but most astute peeps will wait until "it" drops in price.

So wait till mid-2008 and then say something :-)

[pigtailpat]

would have to be really spectacular for folks who just got the 30D (like me), to upgrade. I would probably wait a cycle or two. It took me 7 years (from 2000 to 2007) to upgrade from a P & S to my first dslr in April. So, it'll probably be quite some time before I plunk any more money on a body. I'm going to use the time to build lenses, build comfortable knowledge and skills, then see about upgrading in a few years.
:D

[Keith R]

I know what you mean... But i'm not the kind of guy starting rumours... ;-)

And yet - you just did..!

;) ;) ;)

[00silvergt]

And yet - you just did..!

;) ;) ;)

ROFLMAO!!!LOL

Yeah, Did he say anything about the 1DsMarkIII? Or maybe the whereabouts of Elvis nowadays? LOL sorry, couldn't help it.

[blackviolet]

how many photographers were on the grassy knoll? if they used 1dsmkiii for the 'on the moon' photos, would the dynamic range have shown stars taken from the desert?

[Glenn NK]

Hello,

Just had a call with my local shop, and they told me that the 40D will be announced in July....

Happy Summer !
Sam



I'm picking my 30D up from the camera repair shop sometime tomorrow, and I'm sure they will verify this.;)

Apparently pigs really do fly.:lol: :lol: :lol:

[tdaugharty]

how many photographers were on the grassy knoll? if they used 1dsmkiii for the 'on the moon' photos, would the dynamic range have shown stars taken from the desert?

Come on now ... We "really" did land on the moon ;)

[bob-e]

I guarantee it's coming out in July becuase I ordered a 30D yesterday. It's also not gonna rain, because I haven't washed my car lately.

[tekkie]

I wont hold my breath on this happening in july

[thekid24]

I know what you mean... But i'm not the kind of guy starting rumours... ;-)
lol Just because it isnt in the Rumors forum (yet) doesnt mean it is not a rumor.;)

[darktiger]

I will just upgrade when the 5D replacement comes out. I doubt the 40D will be a huge improvement...

[Olyst]

I think I already saw that before..... wait, wait...Oh that's it, over here.. : http://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic2/531202

[DRAGUI99]

Hello all,

I understand all the sarcastic comments ! ;-)
I have also read a lot of fantastic rumours about the next 30D since 2006 !
All I can say is wait a little and let's talk in July ! ;-)

For information, there is a very serious forum in France, approuved by CANON, and they have the same information as mine... It's not a proof in itself but it's a good sign, no ?

Let's have a look at this forum : http://www.eos-numerique.com/forums/
On the Top of the page, there is an Information in yellow that say " The 30D replacement will be announced in July... Stay Tuned ! "

Sam

[AdamJL]

The 5D II will be announced in August

I am officially approved by Canon, so my word is gospel.

kthxbye ;)

[MaDProFF]

so July?
1D mk 3 was announced in ?,,,,,,, and actually got on the streets at June? 5th or so?

so 40D be xmas?????

or is this announcement they are going to build one, and not even started designing yet?

[goatee]

I would have thought that the '40D' will have to have some real upgrades, since the 30D is essentially 20D Mark 2.

[Maureen Souza]

Okay folks....be polite here & keep the sarcasm to a very low rumble.

[Box Brownie]

Hmmm!!!!

What is interesting is that my favourite store was listing the 30D body at £649 but is now £599 and that is still just within the rebate period. This has typically been one of the stores that has the models first in the UK ~ I was a very early adoptor of the 350D bought on pre order.

I watch this with interest!

:)

[goatee]

I've seen a few of those Box - but they might have in small print that it includes the rebate.

[Box Brownie]

I've seen a few of those Box - but they might have in small print that it includes the rebate.

Historically Park have not done that and there is nothing on the webpages that say they have included the rebate sum in the 'newest' price(s).

[tzalman]

I don't know what it means, but the price of the 30D at several on-line shops here in Israel has in the last couple days dropped by about $150.

[goatee]

must not be tempted to buy 30D. . . . Must resist, but only £535 for brand new. . . that's cheap!

[AdamJL]

^ I presume you are including the rebate, yes? That's one hell of a price, if not!

[JohnnyG]

I doubt that camera shops really know anything official because if they did, it would be all over and it's not yet. But, one can hope, can we not? I've been waiting since last fall when the first rumors came out about the 40D and I'm still waiting.

Rumors are exciting though!:D :D :D I love them and love seeing the different guesses on features although most guesses are too weak in my opinion. I really think the 40D will be an exciting announcement just like the MkIII was, but on a different scale.

[goatee]

^ I presume you are including the rebate, yes? That's one hell of a price, if not!
Yes, that includes the £65 rebate - but even so, it's an amazing price - how does that compare to the price of the 400D when it came out? Probably very close!

[00silvergt]

Here's a link to a site claiming the unveiling will be in 9/26/06. http://gadgets.fosfor.se/canon-eos-40d/

Isn't it a bit early? According to this, the biggest change is the resolution to 10.1 MP and the anti-dust thingy, I guess that's more than the 30D over the 20D.

[Glenn NK]

Okay folks....be polite here & keep the sarcasm to a very low rumble.

I agree, but our skepticism is well founded.

I just typed "40D" into Google, and the result was "about 175000" hits.

This is on a camera that hasn't been announced yet by Canon, and lately they have been very tight-lipped about upcoming models.

Anyone that has perused the dpreview forum realizes that any thread on the topic of a "40D" or "30D successor" is immediately received with not just skepticism, but often outright rancour.

One poster that purchases all the Canon equipment for his large company claimed because of this he had an "inside track" and stated the 40D would appear last fall. It did - in more rumours.

We've even seen bogus websites in Chinese announcing the "new one".

"The Beat Goes On".

[00silvergt]

I agree, but our skepticism is well founded.

I just typed "40D" into Google, and the result was "about 175000" hits.

This is on a camera that hasn't been announced yet by Canon, and lately they have been very tight-lipped about upcoming models.

Anyone that has perused the dpreview forum realizes that any thread on the topic of a "40D" or "30D successor" is immediately received with not just skepticism, but often outright rancour.

One poster that purchases all the Canon equipment for his large company claimed because of this he had an "inside track" and stated the 40D would appear last fall. It did - in more rumours.

We've even seen bogus websites in Chinese announcing the "new one".

"The Beat Goes On".


Glenn, I found a site which claimed that the 40D was in the Canon EU site, but now the link was dead. Maybe Canon was anticipating release and had the site ready in time, however the word leaked and they killed the link? Oh well, July is a few days away. Let's watch and see.

[Glenn NK]

Just for fun, I went to dpreview - see if the following sounds familiar (this is a direct copy/paste - nothing changed - busy guy ;) ):


DRAGUI99 wrote:
> Hello,
>
> Just had a call with my local shop, and they told me that the 40D
> will be announced in July....
>
> Happy Summer !
> Sam
>
> --
> 'You have much to learn young padwan...'
> http://www.pbase.com/dragui99


Just went back to have a further look - here's one of the replies::lol: :lol: :lol:

andrew1306 wrote:
> The guy who works at the 99c store down the street told me this
> morning while I bought my prezel from the corner stand that the
> canon rep has been calling him telling him to clear out a big area
> of shelf space because in Japan the CEO has said they want to focus
> on lens sales, so the new 40D will actually be all the old stock of
> 1D MkII's (they can't now sell after the mkIII release) with the
> vertical grip hacksawed off (they have a new battery that mounts
> the hot-shoe!). And the price will be, you guessed it 99c, but it
> will have a new EF-$ mount so only the new EF-$ lenses will work
> which are super pricey.
>
> On and the release date is apparently August 1st (11:42am) to
> coincide with Swiss national day since the japanese love those Alps.
>
> A

[ScottE]

I will just upgrade when the 5D replacement comes out. I doubt the 40D will be a huge improvement...

A replacement for the 5D is not likely to be an EF-S camera so it would be unsuitable as an upgrade for my 20D. I hope to see something useful.

[00silvergt]

A replacement for the 5D is not likely to be an EF-S camera so it would be unsuitable as an upgrade for my 20D. I hope to see something useful.


Not likely, it will NOT be an EF-S camera. LOL

Glenn, that was funny!!!

[Glenn NK]

Not likely, it will NOT be an EF-S camera. LOL

Glenn, that was funny!!!

There are a lot more over at dpreview - just select the Canon EOS 30D/20D/10D/D60/D30 forum. Some of the replies to various thread heralding news of the 30D replacement have been downright insulting and ugly.

Our thread is polite and genteel by comparison.

[timbop]

I think a lot of the rancor is probably due to the unmet expectations and wishful thinking that the 30D replacement would come out at PMA last fall. That simply wasn't realistic to expect canon to have a DSLR on the market for 6 months. It makes absolute sense to expect the 30D replacement in the july to september timeframe this year.

As for why people feel the need to trash people because they like to speculate on rumor is beyond me, but it is nice to see civility here.

[00silvergt]

The sarcasm is only natural, look what happened to Moses when he tried telling people of the eminent flood. LOL. Albeit, sarcasm is understandable, slander and dehumanizing behavior is uncalled for. With that said to spin this thread into a useful thread, why don't we talked about expectations as timbop has suggested? No rumors, just what do we expect the 40,50, 60D will be. My list:

More AF points, dust cleaning, 12MP since 10MP vs 8MP is hardly an improvement, the the same noise level. Full time LCD and weathersealing, oh yeah no more than $1100 USD. Yeah, I know dealer sets pricing, however Canon can pressure or give rebates...

[vic6string]

The sarcasm is only natural, look what happened to Moses when he tried telling people of the eminent flood. LOL. Albeit, sarcasm is understandable, slander and dehumanizing behavior is uncalled for. With that said to spin this thread into a useful thread, why don't we talked about expectations as timbop has suggested? No rumors, just what do we expect the 40,50, 60D will be. My list:

More AF points, dust cleaning, 12MP since 10MP vs 8MP is hardly an improvement, the the same noise level. Full time LCD and weathersealing, oh yeah no more than $1100 USD. Yeah, I know dealer sets pricing, however Canon can pressure or give rebates...

Actually, it isn't really pressure (in this country pressure is called collusion and we have laws against that). I worked in retail for awhile at the corporate level and learned how the companies get you to sell stuff at their set prices. You know those pretty color flyers in the paper, or catalogs, or TV commercials?... Well a company like Canon will pay a retail outlet a certain amount to help them cover those marketing costs, but they will only give you this money if you are good little soldiers and feature their products at their prices. That's why you see stuff marked as "too low to advertise" or "lowest price of the year" but with no prices. If they ever advertise below the prices Canon wants them to show, they will simply stop recieving this marketing money (which is a big deal).

[timbop]

The sarcasm is only natural, look what happened to Moses when he tried telling people of the eminent flood. LOL. Albeit, sarcasm is understandable, slander and dehumanizing behavior is uncalled for. With that said to spin this thread into a useful thread, why don't we talked about expectations as timbop has suggested? No rumors, just what do we expect the 40,50, 60D will be. My list:

More AF points, dust cleaning, 12MP since 10MP vs 8MP is hardly an improvement, the the same noise level. Full time LCD and weathersealing, oh yeah no more than $1100 USD. Yeah, I know dealer sets pricing, however Canon can pressure or give rebates...

That's the spirit!:p

Yeah, my wish list would be for weathersealing and an $1100 price tag. Unfortunately I don't see them doing either. I suppose it is possible they can make a 12mp aps-c sensor with the same noise as the current 8mp, but again I think that is more a wish than a realistic expectation. For my preference I think I would favor less noise or higher ISO in a 10mp sensor over a noisier 12mp one. In fact I'd rather have clean 3200 and available 6400 in an 8mp sensor, but I digress. I just think it will be more problemmatic if the APS-C goes to 12mp from a marketing perspective, given that the 5D is that size and 1dsm2 asn't that much more. Granted both are due for a replacement but to pack 12mp into the much smaller aps-c size can't be an easy task. It also wouldn't fit well with the 400d and ubercamera 1dm3 having only 10.

So, if they improve upon anything over the 400D I think it's got to be the AF. Or, at least I hope it is. I just can't see them leaving the same AF on the entry level and prosumer model. The same capacity sensor, yes, but the xxD has always had better AF than the rebel line.

[red hot sheep]

must not be tempted to buy 30D. . . . Must resist, but only £535 for brand new. . . that's cheap!

Just wondering where is this price?

I am thinking about buying a 30d and would need to get it today - last day of rebates!

[Box Brownie]

Non buyers regret is (almost) worse than buyers regret ;) Like you I have been so very tempted to buy the 30D but I think I recall that when the 30D came the 20D price dropped nicely so I wonder what the price will be next week?

Agh!!!!!!

[tzalman]

The sarcasm is only natural, look what happened to Moses when he tried telling people of the eminent flood. LOL.
Back to Bible class for you. Noah didn't look anything like Moses - he wasn't even Jewish.

[Glenn NK]

The sarcasm is only natural, look what happened to Moses when he tried telling people of the eminent flood. LOL. Albeit, sarcasm is understandable, slander and dehumanizing behavior is uncalled for. With that said to spin this thread into a useful thread, why don't we talked about expectations as timbop has suggested? No rumors, just what do we expect the 40,50, 60D will be. My list:

More AF points, dust cleaning, 12MP since 10MP vs 8MP is hardly an improvement, the the same noise level. Full time LCD and weathersealing, oh yeah no more than $1100 USD. Yeah, I know dealer sets pricing, however Canon can pressure or give rebates...

OK, I'm going to succumb.

There have been many "predictions" as to what the "next one" will have for features. The problem is that there isn't a whole lot of room for a 30D successor to move upward without crowding existing models.

Someone at dpreview even dreamed of a full frame, but we already have that in the 5D and 1Ds.

Weather sealing and more MP's on the 1.6 crop sensor. Weather sealing seems to be for the pro models, and is crowding 12 MP on a 1.6 crop going to reduce noise or make it worse?

Add more bells and whistles? Like auto-ISO. Well now, I'm getting excited.:rolleyes:

Sensor cleaning hasn't proven to be terribly effective on the XTi/400D has it? Anyone that thinks so should count the threads started by the owners that have a multitude of dust spots. And this elminates one new and promising dust removal system (Dust-Aid). A vibrating sensor is one more piece of "stuff" to add to the cost and to fail; is that a great move?:confused:

Of course we want it to be at the same price as the 30D - maybe we can dream?

Canon has at least one model that is older - the 5D, and no one is mentioning its replacement too seriously. What can you do with the 5D - add sealing, Digic III, and increased fps, and you have a 1Ds. Oops.

What we need is a major breakthrough in sensor technology; there doesn't seem to be much room to move with the present CMOS sensors.

SUMMARY: I'm a grumpy old fart that doesn't believe that technology will save us. (I am an engineer, and I can see that technology isn't the be-all and end-all - when you're in the middle of it as I am, the shortcomings are quite obvious). The Titanic was not supposed to be sinkable.

[jsimon724]

Umm - it was Noah and the flood:rolleyes:

[MrEWorm]

What about the D50? When does that come to market? :)

[AeroSmith]

OK, I'm going to succumb.

There have been many "predictions" as to what the "next one" will have for features. The problem is that there isn't a whole lot of room for a 30D successor to move upward without crowding existing models.

Someone at dpreview even dreamed of a full frame, but we already have that in the 5D and 1Ds.

Weather sealing and more MP's on the 1.6 crop sensor. Weather sealing seems to be for the pro models, and is crowding 12 MP on a 1.6 crop going to reduce noise or make it worse?

Add more bells and whistles? Like auto-ISO. Well now, I'm getting excited.:rolleyes:

Sensor cleaning hasn't proven to be terribly effective on the XTi/400D has it? Anyone that thinks so should count the threads started by the owners that have a multitude of dust spots. And this elminates one new and promising dust removal system (Dust-Aid). A vibrating sensor is one more piece of "stuff" to add to the cost and to fail; is that a great move?:confused:

Of course we want it to be at the same price as the 30D - maybe we can dream?

Canon has at least one model that is older - the 5D, and no one is mentioning its replacement too seriously. What can you do with the 5D - add sealing, Digic III, and increased fps, and you have a 1Ds. Oops.

What we need is a major breakthrough in sensor technology; there doesn't seem to be much room to move with the present CMOS sensors.

SUMMARY: I'm a grumpy old fart that doesn't believe that technology will save us. (I am an engineer, and I can see that technology isn't the be-all and end-all - when you're in the middle of it as I am, the shortcomings are quite obvious). The Titanic was not supposed to be sinkable.

I just don't think Canon can continue to have an entry model, the XTi, with better resolution than the mid-level model. Plain and simple.

[Tom W]

I just don't think Canon can continue to have an entry model, the XTi, with better resolution than the mid-level model. Plain and simple.


I'm not sure if 'better' is the right word - more, yes. Better? I don't know.

[00silvergt]

Umm - it was Noah and the flood:rolleyes:

LOL Mah, bad, I guess I need to touch up on my Torah/Old Testament.:D

I agree more megapixels do not always mean better. Higher resolution, maybe, but with more pixels on a smaller imager means more noise. Overall, however, the 30D/20D is still a better camera than the XTi.

[EdV]

Of course it will be out in July. I bought my XT just before the XTi came out. And I bought a 30D yesterday! :D

Actually, I seriously considered waiting as long as October/November for a 40D but then thought about it more and decided to go with the 30D. I am happy with my decision.

Anyone want to rain on my parade? :( :p

[goatee]

The 30D you bought yesterday will work just as well in November as it does now :D. Congrats - it's a great camera, and a worthy upgrade from the XT.

[AeroSmith]

I'm not sure if 'better' is the right word - more, yes. Better? I don't know.

My guess is if it has DiG!C 3 that it will be better...wouldn't you think?

[Tom W]

My guess is if it has DiG!C 3 that it will be better...wouldn't you think?

Possibly, but I'm not convinced that the XTi's image quality is improved over that of the 30D, except for the higher pixel resolution. Phil's tests indicate higher resolution, but S/N and noise tests don't lend favor to the newer XTi design.

Of course, some of that (s/n and noise) are probably more limited by the sensor & microlens than by the Digic processor. We're bumping up against physical restraints with smaller pixels & microlenses with the higher-density sensors.

[00silvergt]

To add, the higher pixel res of the 400D is negligible, at least from many of the reviews I've seen. Also megapixels are no indication of better IQ, after 6 megapixel unless you are blowing up, cropping, etc. the image, but even then from 8-10 megapixels the difference would be very trivial at best. Now from 8 Megapixels to 12 Megapixels, then you do have a large enough difference to impact resolution. Hence the 5D's quality > the 30/20D.

[JohnnyG]

Now from 8 Megapixels to 12 Megapixels, then you do have a large enough difference to impact resolution. Hence the 5D's quality > the 30/20D.
Totally agree! The 40D MUST have 12mp to make it in the market or to be competitive in the market.

Let's face it, no matter what Canon comes out with, if it's a little better than the 30D, it will sell. Canon's always do but I can see an eroding of their market share to no-ink and others if they don't step up and hit a home-run!

Hitting a home-run will mean an immediate ordering spree that will drarf the D200 sales. That's what we need, to get the momemtum going for Canon. We need a blast in the market to really shake things up!

12mp, 5 or 6fps, 2.7" or 3" monitor, larger viewfinder, DigicIII, AF improvement, dust reduction, possible live view, 1.6X, and maybe some other improvements. Noise reduction must also happen with the increased sensor.

Let's face it: Canon just refreshed the 20D, it's time to really update it with these changes. Anything much less will only be a lukewarm change and it will be just another 30D upgrade over the 20D which was okay but we need more now.

I know there will be whining about encroaching on the 5D but the 5D is in another catagory with full frame. Also, the 5D is headed for an upgrade this fall or next spring too.

[00silvergt]

Well, considering this is the EOS 20th Anniversary, I expect nothing less than stellar from the brand we all decided to back. To be honest , if I don't have so much invested in lenses, flashes, etc. with Canon, I really would be considering to hit the road to one of the other guys. Sony looks promising, so does Olympus, Pentax, and yes our favorite Nikon. Canon service has been on a steady decline in the past few years, and the 30D albeit was an upgrade from the 20D, was a disappointment. 5D is awesome, albeit cost twice that of the 30D...Other camera companies have been stepping up to the plate and it is not even a year of celebration for them. Here we are halfway through the year, yes we got the 1DMKIII, but that's still a bit out of my league, currently...Canon, how about the guys in the middle?

[Tom W]

.... and the 30D albeit was an upgrade from the 20D, was a disappointment. 5D is awesome, albeit cost twice that of the 30D...Other camera companies have been stepping up to the plate and it is not even a year of celebration for them...


I have to say one thing about that. I was very disappointed when Canon brought out the 30D - I mean, it was an improvement on the 20D but it came out as an 8.2 mpx camera in a soon-to-be 10 mpx world. 'What was Canon thinking,' I thought.

Looking back though, I really don't see any competitor's 10-12 mpx camera that has leaped out in front of the 30D in terms of image quality, particularly at high ISO where the competition still resorts to software-based, detail-softening trickery to obtain low noise images. Except for a couple of more expensive Nikons, the 30D has held its own against the competitors, at least up until recently.

Yes, it is time for Canon to leap ahead, and I suspect that will happen soon. If they can achieve what they've done with the 1D3 (except for the present AF issue) in terms of upping the resolution while keeping noise and detail steady or better, then they will have produced a winner. Throw in a few more features and hone the performance of exposure, AF, and such, and it will sell big.

[Glenn NK]

Of course it will be out in July. I bought my XT just before the XTi came out. And I bought a 30D yesterday! :D

Actually, I seriously considered waiting as long as October/November for a 40D but then thought about it more and decided to go with the 30D. I am happy with my decision.

Anyone want to rain on my parade? :( :p

I had been thinking for quite a few months about a second body, and the seemingly obvious choice (already have a 30D) would be the 5D.

But with a little more reflection it dawned on me that what I would like is the next generation 30D (40D?); reasonable price and can use my two EF-S lenses.

However since so many people think that the "next one" will have dust removal, which I think is a waste of money in its present form, I'm actually considering getting another 30D rather than "upgrading".

Squeezing 10 MP on the 400D hasn't resulted in any better IQ than the 30D has, so I ask, where is the gain going to be? Faster fps or faster AF? Not much use to a flower/landscape photographer that takes single shots using MF.

I'm not one to worry about the latest technology - my camera before the 30D was a Canon A-1 that I used for 26 years.

So a second 30D makes a bit of sense.

Rain on your parade? Not a chance.

[timbop]

Glenn, I have to agree with you if that's your shooting style. The 40D will be in the $1400 to $1500 price range, and the likely improvements are AF and MP. Since you aren't really looking for those you might as well save some cash and get a 30D at what is a really good price these days.

[Glenn NK]

Looking back though, I really don't see any competitor's 10-12 mpx camera that has leaped out in front of the 30D in terms of image quality, particularly at high ISO where the competition still resorts to software-based, detail-softening trickery to obtain low noise images. Except for a couple of more expensive Nikons, the 30D has held its own against the competitors, at least up until recently.


Well, the million dollar question for all of us is; "what does Canon do to trump the others?" We don't know what's up their corporate sleeves.

As you say, 10 MP hasn't produced magic in terms of IQ. From reading the pleas for help from XTi owners, it seems that vibrational dust removal hasn't exactly been a resounding success.

What would induce me to buy a 40D?

1) Real weatherproofing (it rains here for five months in the winter).

2) Mount the top screen at an angle so it can be seen from behind with the camera high up on a tripod. At a 45 degree angle it would still be visible from the top. Do this to all models - must have been designed by non-photographers.

3) Enable the histogram to be seen full size of the LDC - the present 1/4 size histogram is a major defect. Firmware revision?

4) Most importantly more dynamic range; I often have images that are clipped at both ends; I suspect everyone does.

If you weren't a Canonite and were a first time buyer; what would you do if you saw this:

http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/compare_post.asp?method=sidebyside&cameras=canon_eos30d%2Cpentax_k10d&show=all

If the "40D" dropped significantly in price, I suspect that the Pentax and others that share a price advantage would suffer.

[Tom W]

What would induce me to buy a 40D?

1) Real weatherproofing (it rains here for five months in the winter).

Real weatherproofing like in a 1-series or D2x, or cheap weatherproofing like a D200? Both are effective, but the degree of effectiveness varies. We could see a low-cost weather-sealing on the next rendition of the 30D.

2) Mount the top screen at an angle so it can be seen from behind with the camera high up on a tripod. At a 45 degree angle it would still be visible from the top. Do this to all models - must have been designed by non-photographers.

While I can see value in this but I'm not sure that I'd want it sticking up like that. I'd prefer, perhaps, to be able to switch the top screen data to the rear screen if needed.

3) Enable the histogram to be seen full size of the LDC - the present 1/4 size histogram is a major defect. Firmware revision?

That would be helpful.

4) Most importantly more dynamic range; I often have images that are clipped at both ends; I suspect everyone does.

I'm not sure that's going to happen, especially if the next model brings higher pixel density. The 1D3's white paper made it clear that the DR is about the same as on the 1D2, though I haven't seen any real testing on that yet. It would be nice to have an extra stop though.

If you weren't a Canonite and were a first time buyer; what would you do if you saw this:

http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/compare_post.asp?method=sidebyside&cameras=canon_eos30d%2Cpentax_k10d&show=all

If the "40D" dropped significantly in price, I suspect that the Pentax and others that share a price advantage would suffer.

I don't think I can answer that question properly. I'd be inclined to look at Canon and Nikon since they are the players with the big glass. Then again, only Canon offers full frame, which is what I wanted in digital all along. I was fortunate that Canon was the first to bring it to a somewhat affordable level.

[tekkie]

it would be nice if they made the screen like on the G5 for instance where you can flip the screen out like this but I highly doubt they will do that

http://www.dcresource.com/reviews/canon/powershot_g5-review/camera-back.jpg

[00silvergt]

Well, the million dollar question for all of us is; "what does Canon do to trump the others?" We don't know what's up their corporate sleeves.

As you say, 10 MP hasn't produced magic in terms of IQ. From reading the pleas for help from XTi owners, it seems that vibrational dust removal hasn't exactly been a resounding success.

What would induce me to buy a 40D?

1) Real weatherproofing (it rains here for five months in the winter).

2) Mount the top screen at an angle so it can be seen from behind with the camera high up on a tripod. At a 45 degree angle it would still be visible from the top. Do this to all models - must have been designed by non-photographers.

3) Enable the histogram to be seen full size of the LDC - the present 1/4 size histogram is a major defect. Firmware revision?

4) Most importantly more dynamic range; I often have images that are clipped at both ends; I suspect everyone does.

If you weren't a Canonite and were a first time buyer; what would you do if you saw this:

http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/compare_post.asp?method=sidebyside&cameras=canon_eos30d%2Cpentax_k10d&show=all

If the "40D" dropped significantly in price, I suspect that the Pentax and others that share a price advantage would suffer.

If I didn't have 1000's of $ invested in Canon, yes, I think I would have bought that Pentax, since it clobbers the 30D in features. However, that's the body, I never dealt with Pentax before, how are their lenses? I've been a Minolta user in the "old" days with my XD-7 and their glass wasn't bad, so I may actually be more drawn towards the Sony, had I not dwelved in the Canon realm.

[Glenn NK]

If I didn't have 1000's of $ invested in Canon, yes, I think I would have bought that Pentax, since it clobbers the 30D in features. However, that's the body, I never dealt with Pentax before, how are their lenses? I've been a Minolta user in the "old" days with my XD-7 and their glass wasn't bad, so I may actually be more drawn towards the Sony, had I not dwelved in the Canon realm.

I had three Pentax bodies from 1962 until 1980; their lenses were excellent as far as I know. Very smooth to operate as were the bodies. At that time the lenses were using a screw mount - very durable, but didn't lend itself well to electronic connections between body and lens for focus and aperture control.

I wouldn't consider them though, even if I was starting over; they just don't have the wide selection of lenses.

Also, the user base is so small compared to Canon, that there wouldn't be the support group and related information/help.

[AeroSmith]

Possibly, but I'm not convinced that the XTi's image quality is improved over that of the 30D, except for the higher pixel resolution. Phil's tests indicate higher resolution, but S/N and noise tests don't lend favor to the newer XTi design.

Of course, some of that (s/n and noise) are probably more limited by the sensor & microlens than by the Digic processor. We're bumping up against physical restraints with smaller pixels & microlenses with the higher-density sensors.

I guess there's no chance of the 40D being a 1.3x crop camera?

[00silvergt]

I guess there's no chance of the 40D being a 1.3x crop camera?


Dude, there's always a "chance"...it maybe 1 in 16,000,000 like the lottery, but there's always a chance.

Seriously, I understand the reasoning, but why stop at 1.3x, why not want the full frame. I'm sure Canon can give us a less expensive version of the 5D's full frame sensor. Canon definitely has the advantage with currently 2 cameras in their fleet at full frame vs. Nikon's zero. I think if the 40D, 50D or whatever they will call the 30D successor will definitely edge Canon as the top for a long time.

[timbop]

If it is not an EF-S compatible mount, then it will not be a successor to the 30D. It would be called a 7D, 3D, or something along those lines. Perhaps the 30D could be the last in the xxD series, but I highly doubt it.

[00silvergt]

If it is not an EF-S compatible mount, then it will not be a successor to the 30D. It would be called a 7D, 3D, or something along those lines. Perhaps the 30D could be the last in the xxD series, but I highly doubt it.


I'm with you, since the 30D's target market is the "experienced amatuer"...well, unless Canon dumps the EF-S line all together or reserves it just for the XXXD series instead?

[ScottE]

I guess there's no chance of the 40D being a 1.3x crop camera?

Not if they want to sell it to me. EF-S or go Nikon.

[JohnnyG]

I guess there's no chance of the 40D being a 1.3x crop camera?
There's probably no chance in hell of a 1.3X in this line of cameras but I wouldn't mind personally.

I would like to see the 40D at 12mp but I'm afraid that would require a move to 1.3X so noise wouldn't be an issue.

It would be awesome though! I sold my EF-S lenses preparing to go to 5D so it would be wonderful to see 1.3X since I decided not to move to the 5D.

[bob-e]

All I can say is wait a little and let's talk in July

Hi. How ya doin? Whatcha wanna talk about?:p

[Tom W]

Perhaps after July 23rd, though that's a very weak rumor.

[Yohan Pamudji]

Hi. How ya doin? Whatcha wanna talk about?:p

Yeah really :) July my foot! Canon seems to have a very definite product announcement pattern, and based on prior history the next round will come in late August to early September. Then again July isn't over yet, so you never know I guess.

And regarding the K10D vs. 30D comparison matrix, the one crucial feature not covered there is AF. Reports comparing the two are pretty consistent in claiming that the K10D struggles in low light compared to Canon's offerings. If not for that I might already own a K10D for my personal use, since I've got this thing for their pancake lenses.

Canon definitely needs to step to the plate with the 40D. With all the pressure coming from Nikon, Pentax, and Sony in terms of feature sets, Canon can't afford to keep holding back features just so that they can trickle them in to upcoming bodies. It really is outrageous how much Pentax managed to cram into a sub-$1k camera, and it's sad to admit that I wouldn't mind paying $1500 for a similar offering from Canon but with a Canon sensor and Canon AF of course.

[00silvergt]

Yeah really :) July my foot! Canon seems to have a very definite product announcement pattern, and based on prior history the next round will come in late August to early September. Then again July isn't over yet, so you never know I guess.

And regarding the K10D vs. 30D comparison matrix, the one crucial feature not covered there is AF. Reports comparing the two are pretty consistent in claiming that the K10D struggles in low light compared to Canon's offerings. If not for that I might already own a K10D for my personal use, since I've got this thing for their pancake lenses.

Canon definitely needs to step to the plate with the 40D. With all the pressure coming from Nikon, Pentax, and Sony in terms of feature sets, Canon can't afford to keep holding back features just so that they can trickle them in to upcoming bodies. It really is outrageous how much Pentax managed to cram into a sub-$1k camera, and it's sad to admit that I wouldn't mind paying $1500 for a similar offering from Canon but with a Canon sensor and Canon AF of course.


And don't forget that World Reknowned Canon glass...Because it surely is not their prentious customer service and support. Nikon's Nikkor is no chump when it comes to glass as well...so Canon needs to get to steppin'.

[RbnDave]

Canon is due to make some huge upgrades for the 40D. The 30D wasn't much of a step above the 20D and now Nikon possibly has a better camera at the same price point as the 30D. Also, the XTi is a competitor to the 30D. I am betting that cannon introduces a camera that blows all others at that price point out of the water... At least that's what I'm hoping cuz I am ready to upgrade from my 20D right now.

[deeeez]

I own a D70s and am currently waiting for the 40D. As a Nikon owner who wants better High ISO performance and someone who is NOT a fanboy of either brand I have something to say about this subject.

I think Canon is due for a major upgrade, because cameras such as D200 and the pentax are superior cameras in almost every aspect except noise performance. I don't honestly believe that Nikon or Pentax will lag much longer behind Canon when it comes to High ISO performance. IMHO Canon better start introducing more feature rich cameras soon or risk losing marketshare in low to mid range DSLRs.

[00silvergt]

Well what about FF? Anyway, it has nothing to do with being a fanboy of either brand, it does have a lot to do with money invested. For most of us, our money/time is already invested with Canon and unless we want to start over, buying stuff and relearning a new methodology, then we will be sticking with Canon, no geeky, fanboy crap, it is all about the money and time.

[jkoc]

did you guys talk about cost of 40D? approx how much would it be usd? if its beyond my 2000$us i'm waiting for nothing heh. (not that i cant afford it.. i just cant justify it given that this is just a hobby for me - gotta have SOME limit)

[00silvergt]

did you guys talk about cost of 40D? approx how much would it be usd? if its beyond my 2000$us i'm waiting for nothing heh. (not that i cant afford it.. i just cant justify it given that this is just a hobby for me - gotta have SOME limit)

Unless it becomes a full frame with everything we wished it to be, Canon would be morons if they sold it for >$2000!

[JohnnyG]

did you guys talk about cost of 40D? approx how much would it be usd? if its beyond my 2000$us i'm waiting for nothing heh. (not that i cant afford it.. i just cant justify it given that this is just a hobby for me - gotta have SOME limit)
Around $1400-$1500 is my guess and that's based on what the 20D and 30D came out for. That would be approximately what the replacement would announce for!

Of course, if Canon drastically changes the camera the all bets are off but I can't see that happening!!!

[jkoc]

do u guys recall the price of the body 30D, at adorama and b&h? was it always 1024$? i swear i thought it was around 1200 before... or am i on crack?

[johndeerrm]

If you weren't a Canonite and were a first time buyer; what would you do if you saw this:

http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/compare_post.asp?method=sidebyside&cameras=canon_eos30d%2Cpentax_k10d&show=all

If the "40D" dropped significantly in price, I suspect that the Pentax and others that share a price advantage would suffer.

Wow, other than the in camera IS that thing has some very nice features!

[bob-e]

do u guys recall the price of the body 30D, at adorama and b&h? was it always 1024$? i swear i thought it was around 1200 before... or am i on crack?


Crack. It's been 1024 for some time now. 1009 at abe's with free shipping though. I think that's where I'm headed

[00silvergt]

Guys, the 20D, if memory serves was selling retail at $1999. Canon doesn't set pricing, dealers do. $1999 was what Best Buy, Compusa, Circuit City and other big named stores sold them for. That was the 20D with 18-55 Kit. Then it dropped to 1699, 1599 and then 1399 just before the 30D was being released. The 30D opened at $1499 with the 18-55 kit lens at these stores. B&H, Adorama, ABe's are different breed all together. I think and I'm afraid of what will happen is that the 40D or 50D or whatever they want to call the 30D's replacement, may retail under what the 30D sold for. This is in order to keep Canon competitive. Albeit, it may not have may of the features on our wishlist. My guess, is that the 5D replacement (next year?) will retail lower to attract former 30D users to go to that route, leaving the 4(5)0D and the Rebel XT(x) as the lowend entries.

[Yohan Pamudji]

The 20D was never $1999. It debuted at $1499. Canon have debuted the 10D, 20D, and 30D at this price. Now the D60 was $2200 or so IIRC, but that was a long time ago. Canon settled into the $1499 initial MSRP for the xxD range, but hopefully with price and feature competition from other manufacturers they'll lower the price AND add more than superficial feature additions.

Correction: the 30D debuted at $1399.

[jkoc]

so is the next "date" to watch for july 23?

[00silvergt]

The 20D was never $1999. It debuted at $1499. Canon have debuted the 10D, 20D, and 30D at this price. Now the D60 was $2200 or so IIRC, but that was a long time ago. Canon settled into the $1499 initial MSRP for the xxD range, but hopefully with price and feature competition from other manufacturers they'll lower the price AND add more than superficial feature additions.

Correction: the 30D debuted at $1399.


http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage.jsp?skuId=8268144&st=30D&type=product&id=1170290375334

Dude, what are you talking about, check out the current price for the 30D at Best Buy albeit it is on sale look at the regular price. I don't have to restate my previous statements, but trust me it's true. Again, Canon doesn't set pricing and retail pricing at these non-camera outlets are usually on the high end. I remember pricing the 20D back in 11/04 and all the retail outlets had it priced with the kit lens at $1999. So you may have seen the 20D or 30D debut for less than what the "retail" Consumer Electronics stores were selling them for, but that's a different animal. The Digital Rebel debut price was $999 for most retail stores, and yes B&H had it online for $899, it is the nature of the game.

[timbop]

http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage.jsp?skuId=8268144&st=30D&type=product&id=1170290375334

Dude, what are you talking about, check out the current price for the 30D at Best Buy albeit it is on sale look at the regular price. I don't have to restate my previous statements, but trust me it's true. Again, Canon doesn't set pricing and retail pricing at these non-camera outlets are usually on the high end. I remember pricing the 20D back in 11/04 and all the retail outlets had it priced with the kit lens at $1999. So you may have seen the 20D or 30D debut for less than what the "retail" Consumer Electronics stores were selling them for, but that's a different animal. The Digital Rebel debut price was $999 for most retail stores, and yes B&H had it online for $899, it is the nature of the game.

He IS referring to the usual outlets like B&H/Adorama; and at it's release the 30D debuted at $1399 body-only ($1499 for body and kit 18-55 lens). If you are buying from best buy or any other chop shop like that, well, buyer beware. BTW, the link you posted is for the 30D with a 28-135IS.

Oh, and you may have seen the 20D with a 17-85IS, which is also one of the kits they used to sell.

[00silvergt]

He IS referring to the usual outlets like B&H/Adorama; and at it's release the 30D debuted at $1399 body-only ($1499 for body and kit 18-55 lens). If you are buying from best buy or any other chop shop like that, well, buyer beware. BTW, the link you posted is for the 30D with a 28-135IS.

Oh, and you may have seen the 20D with a 17-85IS, which is also one of the kits they used to sell.

Understood, but that was point exactly, these "chop shops" are where the majority of people go to buy cameras, albeit mostly P&S's, but still, and don't forget Ritz and Wolf, etc. Only until you been had or known someone who has been had by these guys do you start buying from B&H and company.

Key to this is, Canon DOES NOT SET PRICING. Canon tells the dealers a minimum they can sell a camera for and that's it. The dealer then calculates, operation costs, salesperson commission and overall greed and then determines the amount to sell. Usually they tend to follow each other since margins on cameras are really small unless the tourist camera shop or Broadway St. Camera store nails you for two times the amount.

[CoolToolGuy]

I bought my 20D in the first few weeks it was available, and it was $1999 USD, but that was with the EF-S 17-85 IS, not what is known as the kit lens - EF-S 18-55. It was the same price at my local specialty camera store as at B&H at that time.

While the statement about who sets the pricing is technically correct, competition drives it down, and Canon keeps it up (by specifying the minimum). Over time, Canon lowers the minimum like now when they are trying to sell down inventories of the 30D and the 28-135 IS in advance of their replacement.

Have Fun,

[Yohan Pamudji]

http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage.jsp?skuId=8268144&st=30D&type=product&id=1170290375334

Dude, what are you talking about, check out the current price for the 30D at Best Buy albeit it is on sale look at the regular price. I don't have to restate my previous statements, but trust me it's true. Again, Canon doesn't set pricing and retail pricing at these non-camera outlets are usually on the high end. I remember pricing the 20D back in 11/04 and all the retail outlets had it priced with the kit lens at $1999. So you may have seen the 20D or 30D debut for less than what the "retail" Consumer Electronics stores were selling them for, but that's a different animal. The Digital Rebel debut price was $999 for most retail stores, and yes B&H had it online for $899, it is the nature of the game.

Sorry, but the 10D and 20D were $1499 MSRP (Manufacturer Suggested Retail Price) at launch. This is fact. The 30D was $1399 MSRP, also fact. Here's the 30D press release from Canon (http://www.usa.canon.com/templatedata/pressrelease/20060221_EOS_30D.html) where they list the $1399 price. Again, that's the "suggested" price, so technically speaking you're right that they don't "set" the price. I don't have a problem with that, just trying to correct your statement that the 20D debuted at $1999, which it most certainly did not. And the Best Buy link you posted is $1499 with a 28-135 lens as part of the kit, so not exactly what we're talking about.

[00silvergt]

Let's leave it at that...the point is pricing is set by the dealer which we both agree on, so let's keep the wishlist going...

[jkoc]

ok i have a dumb question ... what is the point of "live view" on SLR? the LCD probably cant be good enough to do any manual focusing right? so is it a feature mainly to satisfy whitepaper spec charts vs other cameras or am i missing out on something? does liveview represent 100% of the actual frame? .. or..

[Yohan Pamudji]

Then I'll be the first to get it back on track :) I think I posted this before, if not in this thread then certainly in another, but I think this is a realistic 40D wishlist (well some of them are wishes, others are just what I think will happen anyway):

Certain:
- Digic III
- Dust shaker

Almost certain:
- bigger LCD

What I'd like to see (in descending order of importance):
- more crosstype AF sensors spread in a rectangular, rule-of-3rds grid (no more diamond)
- faster and more accurate AF (20D/30D are great, but can still be improved)
- cleaner high ISO (once again great, but can be improved)
- 10MP (any more than this and I think high ISO noise will increase)
- quieter mirror slap and shutter sound (like the 10D)
- weather sealing (other similar cameras have it; can't hold it back for the pro bodies anymore)


I think this list is pretty reasonable, and considering the competition's feature list (Pentax K10D, Nikon D200). This would actually only bring the xxD line up to par compared to the competition's offerings, except for Canon's leading high ISO performance, so maybe Canon will really surprise us and come out with something extraordinary. They certainly need to after the 30D, which should've been called the 20Dn or something since it was such a minor upgrade.

[00silvergt]

Yohan, I don't think that would be too much to ask, save for the LCD...we may get exactly that...albeit, probably not the tandem Digic III like the MKIII.

I agree JKOC but, other DSLR's have that function as well. I have a Sony P&S F717 which has a choice between live LCD or VF and always preferred the VF. I think the LCD is great to get an idea of how the pic turned out but I'd hate to frame and compose the pic using the LCD...

[canonrap]

so maybe Canon will really surprise us and come out with something extraordinary...

Face Detection.....:lol:

...sorry - felt the need to lighten up the discussion ;)

Actually I'd go along with Yohan's wish list, but can't see a bigger LCD on the cards, yet (maybe in the 40DII). As for the AF, what improvements did they build into the new 1DIII:?: - maybe that could be a clue.

I wonder if weathersealing is one reason why we've heard nothing about the 30D replacement yet; I figure it'll take a bit of design effort to bring it up to Canon's quality expectations, if they feel it's worth doing at all.

Mind, without w'sealing, how vulnerable are Canon's DSLRs compared to, say, my old A1:?: I'd never aim to leave it out in the rain, but I could live with a few drops getting onto the body.

How good and durable is the competition's w'sealing feature:?::?:

[00silvergt]

Weathersealing? Ah, that for wimps, besides, I'm in California, it never rains here! LOL Just kidding. :p

I'm just afraid that as with all things Canon, they seem to set prices higher for a few pieces of rubber. I think you are on to something with that face detection thing though...

Seriously, have you guys heard that Canon's face detection technology on the P&S is prejudice? Supposedly, it has a hard time recognizing darker complexions, specifically African-Americans...weird, huh?

[Glenn NK]

Then I'll be the first to get it back on track :) I think I posted this before, if not in this thread then certainly in another, but I think this is a realistic 40D wishlist (well some of them are wishes, others are just what I think will happen anyway):

Certain:
- Digic III
- Dust shaker

Almost certain:
- bigger LCD

What I'd like to see (in descending order of importance):
- more crosstype AF sensors spread in a rectangular, rule-of-3rds grid (no more diamond)
- faster and more accurate AF (20D/30D are great, but can still be improved)
- cleaner high ISO (once again great, but can be improved)
- 10MP (any more than this and I think high ISO noise will increase)
- quieter mirror slap and shutter sound (like the 10D)
- weather sealing (other similar cameras have it; can't hold it back for the pro bodies anymore)


I think this list is pretty reasonable, and considering the competition's feature list (Pentax K10D, Nikon D200). This would actually only bring the xxD line up to par compared to the competition's offerings, except for Canon's leading high ISO performance, so maybe Canon will really surprise us and come out with something extraordinary. They certainly need to after the 30D, which should've been called the 20Dn or something since it was such a minor upgrade.

Three comments:


Your list is reasonable except I think that if the "dust shaker" isn't more effective that that on the 400D/XTi, then it's a waste of money and something else to go wrong.
Coming up with something extraordinary would be nice, but the more features that are put into the "next xxD", the closer it gets to the "Mark I" series and will impact on sales of that line.
Keeping that in mind, the 30D upgrade shouldn't have been a seen as a disappointment unless someone really expected to get a fully featured camera (Mark I series) at a 30D price.

[ScottE]

I just received a Vosonic VP8390 storage device to back up photos in the field. It has an Ogranic Light Emiting Diode (OLED) display instead of the LCD display on previous devices. This is give a brighter, easier to see image than LCD. It also uses less power. How about an OLED display instead of LCD?

[khall]

I have't read all the of the 7 pages, but Canon Australia has $200.00 cash back until 31st July. Plus on the 1Ds 11 it's $1,000.00 again ends 31/7/07

[silverhalide]

Your list is reasonable except I think that if the "dust shaker" isn't more effective that that on the 400D/XTi, then it's a waste of money and something else to go wrong.

I've seen comments about the XTi dust shaker performance before, and read the results of the comparative test (by SLRGear?).

Doesn't the 1DMkIII also have a dust shaker? It's a different design. Does anyone know how the MkIII design performs compared to the XTi? (Or are all the MkIII owners to busy worrying about AF issues?)

I assume that if the XTi dust removal performance is poor, and the MkIII's is better, than the 40D will get the better one. (Unless there is some issue relating to cost, sensor size, etc. which would make it infeasable.)

E.

[vic6string]

ok i have a dumb question ... what is the point of "live view" on SLR? the LCD probably cant be good enough to do any manual focusing right? so is it a feature mainly to satisfy whitepaper spec charts vs other cameras or am i missing out on something? does liveview represent 100% of the actual frame? .. or..

Live View is actually cool in a couple of instances like macro work and shots that would otherwise be taken blindly (above the head crowd shots or any other shots where you have to hold the camera away from you to get the right angle). But the real point to live view is because the people coming over to DSLR land from P&S land are so used to using the LCD to shoot that they feel they need it.

[00silvergt]

Live View is actually cool in a couple of instances like macro work and shots that would otherwise be taken blindly (above the head crowd shots or any other shots where you have to hold the camera away from you to get the right angle). But the real point to live view is because the people coming over to DSLR land from P&S land are so used to using the LCD to shoot that they feel they need it.

I totally agree on all points.

[JohnnyG]

When I first saw Live View on the Mk3, I thought, who would want that? But now I'm thinking maybe it's a pretty good idea! Well maybe because it might be on the 40D I guess!:D

The comment about the XTi dust shaker is about that model of camera. Hopefully it will be better on the 40D, if it has it which I assume it will. 3" screen sounds real cool too:cool:

I have been excited about the 40D since last fall. I've saved my money for it, spent that and now saved it again. If it doesn't come out soon I'll probably spend that!:rolleyes:

[Thunderheart]

I have't read all the of the 7 pages, but Canon Australia has $200.00 cash back until 31st July. Plus on the 1Ds 11 it's $1,000.00 again ends 31/7/07
For the 400D and the 30D you need to purchase the camera by 30th June and the offer closes 31st July. For the 1DsMkII purchase needs to be made by 30th September and the offer closes 31st October.

Link HERE (http://www.canon.com.au/cashbackoffer/index.html#eos1dsmarkii)

[SHULTSIE!!!]

ni-kon, nik-on or knee-con... Still doesn't sound as good as Canon!

[AngryCorgi]

Canon is due to make some huge upgrades for the 40D. The 30D wasn't much of a step above the 20D and now Nikon possibly has a better camera at the same price point as the 30D. Also, the XTi is a competitor to the 30D. I am betting that cannon introduces a camera that blows all others at that price point out of the water... At least that's what I'm hoping cuz I am ready to upgrade from my 20D right now.

Ummm...the XTi is as much a competitor to the 30D as the D40x is a competitor to the D200...which is to say it's not a competitor. Canon knows how to separate camera classes, and the feature diffs keep them pretty separated.

In the 30D's favor: 0.3EV stepping of sensitivity to ISO1600, ISO3200 available, 5fps + 3fps high-speed shooting, spot metering, 1/8000sec max shutter speed, optional remote allows timelapse shooting, standard 1390mAh batteries, 100,000 actuation shutter life, extremely informative viewfinder, magnesium body, flash sync to 1/250sec, pc sync port...that's the major diffs...

In the XTi's favor: 10.1mp sensor, dust avoidance system...I think that's about it...

I recently moved to the 30D from the XT, and despite no pixel increase, I am VERY happy with the enhancements! People are not saying "hey it's a tough choice between the 30D and the XTi", I can gaurantee you that. That said, the XTi, I am sure, is a wonderful camera...no intended knock on it. Face it, P&S guys moving to the DSLR realm think megapixels are everything and are afraid of the thought of cleaning the sensor manually. Canon knows this and jumped the pixel count to compete with the D80 (and now it competes with the D40x) and threw dust removal in as a plus. So Nikon has dumbed down their D40x to use only modern lenses, because they know that the most of the people using old glass are experienced and want the features on the D200 anyway so why build the mechanical drive system into their entry-level model. The D80 is just a lost animal waiting to die...yadda yadda yadda...Canon wrote the new Nikon business model...hehehe... :D

[JohnnyG]

Yeah, we need one big home run out of the park for the 40D, not some dribbler for a little hit. Blast them Canon, Blast them!!! 3" screen, 10mp, dust thingy, Digic III, live view, and lots more! Go! Go! Go! Announce that 40D NOW!

[jkoc]

Live View is actually cool in a couple of instances like macro work and shots that would otherwise be taken blindly (above the head crowd shots or any other shots where you have to hold the camera away from you to get the right angle). But the real point to live view is because the people coming over to DSLR land from P&S land are so used to using the LCD to shoot that they feel they need it.


ahh i see. i dont do much macro at the moment so never thought of it.

[naqs]

So when in July is the 40D going to be announced?

[JohnnyG]

So when in July is the 40D going to be announced?
There was an article saying the 23rd so we'll see. I sure hope it's soon.

But, there were also people saying the last week of August too. Who really knows? The ones that know for sure aren't talking.

[Broncobear]

Personally everyone is hoping for 12 MP, but I say 10 MP with the DigiIII and wow me with amazing noise level with high ISO (3200). For the 2 MP, I rather get better qaulity image with noise level.

If Canon really really releases the 12 MP, then I think it's going to have to sacrifice on IQ. Unless it changes the crop factor to 1.3. (uhm...I'm thinking not)

From a marketing perspective I can't see them adding a bigger sensor and thus decreasing the value and demand of the 5d

[sando]

I say "Nick On"

Is it "Knee Con"?

[Skippy29]

Tomato

[nicksan]

It's not that it's pronounced "knee-kon", but more so how the "i" is pronounced.

The "i" is not pronounced as in "I like Canon".
It's more like the "i" in Nick.
Replace the "ck" in "Nick" with "kon".
And you have the pronounciation for "Nikon".

The "i" sound doesn't drag out like "Kneeeekon"...it's pretty quick and to the point "Nick-on".

Makes sense?

[tarpon6]

This is a Canon thread about the rumored 40D, we don't need no stinkin kneeeekon talk.

Than being said the OP's link is the old info, and unreliable

I don't care if the 40D is 10 or 12 MP, but I still want 1.6 crop, low noise, high ISO, larger LCD, effective dust removal, improved autofocus, bighter viewfinder, Digic III, and the individual micro focus adjustment profiles for lenses. With these features I am in all the way.

It would be nice if they added weather sealing, live view, quieter shutter, and maybe slightly smaller size... None of these are must haves..

[Broncobear]

I can't see weather seeing as being possible unless they really bump up the price.

[Headcase650]

I can't see weather seeing as being possible unless they really bump up the price.

Why not? The d200, K10d and the new Olympus E1? are weather sealed and they all cost less than the new camera if it comes in at $1399.

[Broncobear]

D200 is 1599 the last time i checked. Maybe 1499 in the US now with a rebate, also there are questions on how good the weather sealing is on it.

K10D or Olympus don't compare in terms fo a quality fo a canon...as decent as they might be in there own way...(just my own opinion from the shots that i took with both bodies).

If they put in weather sealing in the 40D I'm thinking it will be 1600-1700 dollars.

[sando]

I don't care if the 40D is 10 or 12 MP, but I still want 1.6 crop, low noise, high ISO, larger LCD, effective dust removal, improved autofocus, bighter viewfinder, Digic III, and the individual micro focus adjustment profiles for lenses. With these features I am in all the way.

It would be nice if they added weather sealing, live view, quieter shutter, and maybe slightly smaller size... None of these are must haves..

K10D or Olympus don't compare in terms fo a quality fo a canon...as decent as they might be in there own way...(just my own opinion from the shots that i took with both bodies).

Micro adjustment for lenses would be awesome IMO.

Im at a loss when i think about the weather sealing. Look at the 400D with sensor cleaning and 10mp... all the others did it and Canon couldnt be left as the only one without a 10mp sensor and no sensor cleaning.

I think that the 40D may have to have weather sealing to compete, at least on paper. I dont think it needs 12mp to compete. It might be 10, or 11. If it is 12, then a new 5D will be out this year too to stop the lines from being blurred between the 40D and 5D.

It will have Digic III - that's a given.

It might have a 2.7" screen. I wouldnt be surprised to see the same 3" screen from the MKIII on there.

Canon have to compete on paper because that's where most people do their comparisons.
Average Joe would look at an SLR with weather-sealing, sensor cleaning and 10mp and think "wow, that's cool" and then look at another without weather-sealing, without sensor cleaning and 10mp and think "well, hang on... the other one is obviously better"
Being competitive on paper means that they wont disqualify themselves from the people who only compare in that way - which, in fact, there's gotta be millions out there who do. Rather than the 'proper' way which is to compare the resulting images.

Another point, on IS... Nikon and Canon can continue to produce IS lenses and not go for sensor stabilisation yet because they both do the same. If one falls due to competitors and public pressure, and starts making in-camera sensor stabilisation then it means the other will crumble too. You cant produce something that is unique in the way IS is when (in the Joe Average's view) it is inferior (in cost - not IQ).

[unferth]

...Question.... how large of a sensor do EF-S lenses cover? Would the 40d have to be 1.6? how about 1.5 or 1.45 or something.....

There have been reports of using the 17-55 lens on 1.3 cameras so... wouldn't it also be possible to have a 10 or 11 mpixel sensor that's slightly larger to reduce the noise from the 400d?....

[Broncobear]

In terms of weather striping, after thinking it over I do believe the weather stripping will be part of the 40D.

Canon has always don their part to meet standards but they did it while ensureing good quality.

I think 40D is going to be 10 MP...and with the DIGIC III and weather stripping ...what can I say, I'm more than fine with that.
The CANON EOS-1D MK III is a 1.3 crop and does not support EF-S lenses.
I believe the lenses EF-S need a 1.5 Crop factor in order to be used. Not a 100% sure tho

[jwil]

Live View is actually cool in a couple of instances like macro work and shots that would otherwise be taken blindly (above the head crowd shots or any other shots where you have to hold the camera away from you to get the right angle). But the real point to live view is because the people coming over to DSLR land from P&S land are so used to using the LCD to shoot that they feel they need it.

Whay does everyone keep saying this? :confused::confused:

There is only manual focusing available in Live View mode, so you CAN'T shoot over your head or at some crazy angle. And it most certainly is NOT for "P&S users coming to DSLR land" since every one of their shots would be out of focus when using Live View like they used their point and shoot.

Canon has been extremely clear about how Live View is used: tethered shooting. This is extremely commonplace for anyone working in a studio, or people coming from medium format digital backs. If you read the Canon MKIII white paper, Canon goes into great detail about this and explicitly states more than once that Live View is for tethered studio shooting. It's a pro feature requested by pro users and put on a pro camera. It's not for snapshots of a persons new puppy.

[Mark Goldstein]

CIPA are now listing the 40D on their website! Full story here:

http://www.photographyblog.com/index.php/weblog/comments/canon_40d_imminent/

[yup talon]

Yessssssssssss!!!

[jkoc]

holy