B&H seems to have made an error.

[bigsexy]

This thread is for everybody, but specifically for LazyPhotographer. I just talked to DAN at B&H regarding a 1D MKII I ordered on Sunday. I made the order after reading the following thread here: http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?t=34752&highlight= Anyway, DAN says I must have made an error and they there's no way the site said "In Stock". He also says I should recieve my camera in 4-6 weeks. I know I'm very disapointed and Just wanted to let everyone know so that they don't get hit with the same bad news. Ya'll take care, Dave.

[Belmondo]

Bummer. :cry:
Are they going to charge your credit card in the meantime?

[bigsexy]

Yeah, DAN at B&H said that my credit card would be charged upon placing my order. Excuse me, I'm going to go swear and break things for a while.

[Jon Borcik]

Try giving Norman's Camera a call. They may have one sooner and will not charge your card until it comes in. I got one from them within two weeks of ordering one. Great place & service. Many others have happily dealt with them also.
:)

http://www.normancamera.com/company/info_gr.asp

[Belmondo]

Yeah, DAN at B&H said that my credit card would be charged upon placing my order. Excuse me, I'm going to go swear and break things for a while.

In fairness to B&H, they were very good about issuing a credit when I canceled my order with them. There was about a week where I had $9,000 in camera purchases on my credit card, though. That was a little ‘thrilling’.

[LazyPhotographer]

I'm a little pissed off and disappointed at B&H. I don't go looking at the website a couple times per day to mistakenly enter an order when it says "accepting orders" - I enter my order when it says "in stock".

First they emailed asking for a "phone, utility bill, or drivers license" showing the SHIP TO address. Then 2 days later they called to say they'll only SHIP to an address with a "published phone number". Of course, they dinged the CC right away on the day I ordered.

It's been quite a run-around... I told then to check my account to see how much I have spent and to where it's being shipped, and which phone number I always use. ONLY after that, did they call my sister for the FIRST time to verify that the charges to her CC were approved by her!

I wrote them yesterday questioning their process (what good is a phone bill for a ship to address? Bet that comes in handy for ordering gifts or shipping to an office). I also asked if it was a ploy to cover the fact that the product really was not in stock as they had advertised.

Finally, I asked for free over-night shipping to compensate for the confusion and for consideration for how much money we have spent there - clearly we are loyal customers who spend a great deal and should be treated as such. There's no response to my email yet, but they did call my sister this morning to say it's out of stock and on back-order. Arrrrgh!

This really sucks because I liked B&H. But no one likes to be jerked around... I wonder if they know about all the free advertising they get on this forum? :evil:

[arumdevil]

that's ridiculous!

i don't know how it works in the states but in the UK it's against the law to charge a CC before the goods are shipped.

[Pekka]

If someone talks to them please say that they are welcome here to comment about these matters - this is a free forum and open for all.

My experience of B&H was that I missed the open hours by 15 minutes and then they were closed the next two days while I was in New York (two days) :) Apparently those were some holy days in Jewish calendar.

Anyways it is currently better to order form germany (I can recommend http://www.ac-foto.de/ ) if you are in EU area. There are no customs at all and VAT is cheap in Germany.

[LazyPhotographer]

I'm just going to hang loose and see what B&H does to make the situation better. Who knows, they may pull through and surprise me with good news.

As for the CC stuff... I'm letting my sister the accountant work that out. She's quite good at that stuff.

[RustyKnight]

A couple of weeks ago I bought a 24-70 f2.8 L from B&H and even with UK import duty, I saved money. Unfortunately, I had to send it back 'cos the zoom ring was stiff and (hopefully) a replacement is on the way as I type. Not B&H's fault, but it does mean that I shan't use them at such long range again. All the savings I made have been eaten up with transatlantic phone calls and return postage.

Thanks for that web site Pekka, I'll use them next time. No import duty to the UK

[Mike H]

I've had nothing but good experiences with B&H in the past, and I think that's the case for almost everyone that I've talked to about them. I believe that's why they have become so large.

Having said that, I checked their site the other day when I saw the post saying that they were showing Mark IIs in stock, just out of curiousity (I already have one). It definitely showed Mark IIs in stock, no matter what anyone has to say over the phone.

If anyone is still looking for a Mark II, PM me and I will give you the direct number of the salesperson that I dealt with at Ritz when I got my camera. She promised the Mark II in two weeks and delivered. She also said that they have been getting them in and shipping them out pretty steadily.

Mike H

[sGu]

B&H has never let me down, just ordered a 2G Sandisk Ultra II, and came on time again with exactly what i was expecting.

[Jon Borcik]

I've ordered from B&H in the past for several items. They have been great for products they have in stock... In fact they have shipped items faster to me than anyone else from NY. I just won't purchase anything from them that they don't have in stock due to their CC charging policy.
:shock:

[bigsexy]

Like pretty much everyone else, I have come to rely on B&H. They are generally the only outlet that I go through for photographic gear. Here is a conversation I had with one of their reps via their live chat assistance program:

David Everette (09:04:16): Why is my order only partially shipped? All items were listed as in stock.
DAN (09:04:16): Welcome, David Everette , We are reviewing your question and will be with you shortly.
DAN (09:04:29): We have 2 warehouses. DAN (09:04:59): One item was probably in our NYC store and the other was in our Brooklyn warehouse.
David Everette (09:04:59): God I hope that's the reason. It's a 1D MK II.
David Everette (09:05:02): God I hope that's the reason. It's a 1D MK II.
DAN (09:05:13): What is your order number?
David Everette (09:05:21): 1002286511
DAN (09:06:52): The Mark II is back ordered.
DAN (09:07:03): The website said: Note! This item is currently not in stock. We are accepting orders and it will be shipped when in stock. Orders will be filled in the order they are received. Your card will be charged upon placing the order.
David Everette (09:07:16): The site listed it as in stock when I ordered?
David Everette (09:07:58): It was two or three days ago.
DAN (09:08:02): You ordered on a Saturday, the Sabbath.
DAN (09:08:24): When I left here, friday 2pm EDT we did not have it in stock.
DAN (09:08:47): There is no way it was in stock while we were not open.
David Everette (09:09:11): So I guess it was a mistake.
DAN (09:09:37): I think you mis-read our site.
David Everette (09:10:14): No, I didn't. I can send you a link to the Canon Digital forum where others posted seeing them in stock also.
DAN (09:10:58): And what is that link?
David Everette (09:11:17): I'm getting it now
David Everette (09:13:12): http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?t=34752&highlight=
DAN (09:13:38): Well it does not matter what they say. The item you are asking for is new and in VERY high demand. We are taking backorders on this product. You should call to place the order. We will charge your credit card the day you place the order and it will ship to you in about 4-6 weeks.
David Everette (09:14:06): Thanks for your assistance Thanks,
Dan x2952

Since this conversation I have recieved a follow up email from another B&H rep:

Since your're first message, I've done some more homework:

Our web site updates inventory every 30 minutes. If an item becomes available at (for example) 10:00, it'll show as available until 10:30, even if we sell all we have by 10:20. This happens VERY rarely, but in this case, that's what seems to have occurred.

If a customer came to the product's page at 10:25, he'd see an inaccurate in-stock indication. We're aware of this situation and are working assiduously to rectify it.

What's the moral to this story? I think DAN is an @*$ and I'm stuck waiting who knows how long for my MKII. It wouldn't be so bad if I hadn't had the initial expectation that it was in stock and would be shipped in a timely manner. I'm going to go pout some more, ya'll take care. David

[henryp]

First, I am sorry ANYONE is at all dissatisfied with any aspect of our performance. Second, I appreciate both the many kind words said about us and Pekka's invitation to reply here.

In no particular order -- it is perfectly legal to charge a customer's credit card when the order is placed before merchandise is shipped and the banks which permit retailers to accept credit cards also have agred the practice does not violate the retailer's merchant agreement. I do not know the details of UK law, but I believe arumdevil is mistaken. I do know that there are different rules for card-present (in-person) transactions than for card-absent (mail or web order) transactions.

As far as inventory -- our site updates every 15-30m minutes. It _is_ possible for someone to find a page on our site at 10:15 for a particular item and see an "in stock" notice for an item which WAS in stock at 10:01 but may not be at 10:15, or may be then, but may not be by the time the customer's committing the order at 10:25. This is RARE, but not inconceivable and we're working on modifying our system to make our inventory even more reliable and accurate than it is now.

bigsexy said that Dan from B&H "... is an @*$..." Dan's not. Dan happens to be VERY knowledgeable about equipment and techniques but not as knowledgeable as I am about how B&H operates. He reported what he thought was accurate data and at no time meant to mislead or irk bigsexy or anyone else.

LazyPhotographer had some comments about our Verification process. This is a security measure designed to protect YOU from credit card fraud and/or identity theft. Security prevents me from discussing too many details, but suffice it to say that this system has been honed over the course of the past decade in consultation with security experts and with the bansk which permit us to accept credit cards and every phase of the process _is_ important to the process and does contribute to its success.

I hope this is helpful.

[IanBMW]

I have had good experience with B&H with the exception of ordering a "in stock" $400 lens for a x-mas present to myself :twisted: and found out nearly 4 days later that it wasnt :evil: :shock: . And I DO NOT like the fact that they charge your credit card first and ask questions later if you get what i mean, but oh well their prices are pretty good and they have just about the biggest list of shipping options i have ever seen. So if they can fix their "in stock" problem than I will be happy.

[Johnnynf]

I don't necessarily agree with the "charge the credit card and ask questions later" policy either, but B & H is by no means the only dealer to do this. I have bought from a couple of other online photography dealers and all of them had this same policy. I had to wait almost three months for a lens hood to come in for the 50mm f/1.8 and they charged my card immediately after the order was placed. I know...not the same thing as a 1D Mark II, but same idea.

I assume that the purpose of charging the card right off the bat is to assure that the card has "room on it" for the purchase. Isn't there a way to determine whether the card is able to handle the transaction without actually charging it?

But then again...one could argue that it shouldn't make any difference when the credit card is charged in the process...whether it is now or two months from now when it is shipped. Will the status of the card change somehow?

I guess this is why you should be sure to buy from a reputable dealer so that if something does go wrong, you can rest assured that you will be credited for the full amount if a refund is necessary.

[slin100]

I assume that the purpose of charging the card right off the bat is to assure that the card has "room on it" for the purchase. Isn't there a way to determine whether the card is able to handle the transaction without actually charging it?

I think so. A lot of hotels pre-authorize charges at the time reservations are made.

[Pekka]

First, I am sorry ANYONE is at all dissatisfied with any aspect of our performance. Second, I appreciate both the many kind words said about us and Pekka's invitation to reply here.

Great to see you here, Henry.

As far as inventory -- our site updates every 15-30m minutes. It _is_ possible for someone to find a page on our site at 10:15 for a particular item and see an "in stock" notice for an item which WAS in stock at 10:01 but may not be at 10:15, or may be then, but may not be by the time the customer's committing the order at 10:25. This is RARE, but not inconceivable and we're working on modifying our system to make our inventory even more reliable and accurate than it is now.

There is a great online computer shop in Finland http://www.verkkokauppa.com and they have this handled really well. Each item has info page like (in Finnish only) http://www.verkkokauppa.com/popups/prodinfo.php?id=3372 and e.g. this page told when I wrote this message that they had 10 items in stock, 13 were in order, 3 in queue, importer had zero in their main stock, "Viimeksi saapuneet erät" means 5 last shipments which have come in and "Viimeksi myyty" is a list of 5 last sold and shipped. This data is produced in realtime by their whole sale network.

So this page gives you idea how fast the item moves, how long you may have to wait etc.

[igas]

Anyways it is currently better to order form germany (I can recommend http://www.ac-foto.de/ ) if you are in EU area. There are no customs at all and VAT is cheap in Germany.

Sorry Pekka, but it is NOT better to order from Germany rather than B&H.

I have a few days ago received an EF 300/4.0 L from B&H: Total time from order to receipt - 5 days. Cost of lens - $1120. Shipping $57.
Total: $1177. Add duty: $80, and Malta VAT 18%: $212.
Grand Total: $ 1469.

Had I ordered from AC Foto: Cost of lens - eur1242. Shipping, wait for it -eur152.21! Total eur1394. Equivalent to $1779.

After paying for duty and 18% vat, I still ended up the winner by more than $300.

I will never understand why the exact same package, delivered UPS express in both cases, should cost more than 3 times as much to get to me from Germany than from the US!

The service I have received so far from B&H is such that even with break-even costs, I would probably still order from them as long as they are in business.


Regards,

Ian.