Are these pictures Fake?

[BillsBayou]

Thanks for the clarification.

The absence of contact info for Jenna/Stephen and the members only discussion group still smells bad.

[BillsBayou]

This UFO Casebook page (http://www.ufocasebook.com/bigbasin.html) is only third hand information (Stephen, Jenna, UFO Casebook). Not much of an improvement though.

LOL

[wrxflame]

It has been suggested that I send an email directly to Linda at Earthfiles to see if she can provide the three images including their EXIF data.

I guess we don't need the originals, just a resize would be fine as long as it has the EXIF data...yes?

You are not alone with that problem, I have a 10yo who wants a cell phone as well!

[StewartR]

Hmm. Why speculate as to whether the non-existence of the originals is the result of cock-up or conspiracy? Let's find out.
From: StewartR
To: Webmaster@UFOCasebook.com
Date: 03-Aug-2007 16:11
Subject: More Photographs of Strange Craft Taken at Big Basin

Dear UFO Casebook,

I am intrigued by the photos of a strange "craft" taken at Big Basin, which are displayed on this page:
http://www.ufocasebook.com/bigbasin.html

However, the "full size originals" which are accessible by clicking on the smaller images do not appear to be the originals. They are the right size (2496 x 1664 pixels) to be Medium Resolution JPEGs taken by a Canon Digital Rebel XT, as claimed by the photographer. But the files are not large enough to be originals (they should be 1-2MB, rather than 0-3-0.6MB) and they have had the EXIF data - shutter speed, focal length, aperture, etc. - removed.

Do you have the real originals as provided by Stephen/Jenna? If so, I would suggest you upload them instead. The availability of EXIF data would do wonders for their credibility.

If these are all you have, do you have the means to get in touch with Stephen/Jenna? It appears that Stephen is a photography student and Jenna is a freelance photographer, so they should both understand the relevance of EXIF data, and it seems highly unlikely that the real originals do not exist. Again, uploading the real originals would significantly enhance their credibility.

Thanks for your assistance.
StewartR

[breal101]

Thanks Stewart, hopefully you will get an answer. As I posted before a jpeg, even if photoshopped to death will retain the EXIF for the original image. I have no way of knowing if it is possible to take a picture into photoshop do your worst and then convert it back to RAW. I don't think it is but a RAW image would be most convincing in my opinion. On the subject of faking a UFO pic: I'm a little surprised that no one has suggested what I think is a more effective way of making a fake. Take a photograph with sky in it, using your model take a separate exposure with the same sky as the background, keep subject size the same as you want it to appear in the finished fake photo. Mono filament is fairly easy to conceal, I won't give away the entire process but suffice to say the next step is to merge to the two images together using layer masking. Since the two pictures contain the same sky it is fairly easy to match the two. This method gets around the edge transition issue commonly found in fake pictures using a cut and paste or any other outlining method. I have left out a few details one that pertains to how you would make the model appear to be farther from the camera than it is. I'll leave it to others to figure that out. I'm not suggesting this is how the shots were done, it is a method we use to avoid outlining or knocking out the subject when doing a photo composition. I must admit that I have never faked a UFO picture this way, I have used this to produce ad photos for print use, it works great for that. I'm not changing sides, I am just trying to be fair and objective about the subject.

If anyone is interested google Bruce Macabbee, he has examined photos at length to determine authenticity. Methods far beyond my capabilities,a two year study in one case. His reports are a tedious read, something like a lens review but at least in some cases he has concluded that the photo at least is genuine.

[Guineh]

Hmmm.. The clear blue sky is way too convenient, IMO. Very easy to slip in whatever you want.

On UFO sightings in general. We have many, many shutter-happy folks here, but I have yet to see anyone in California (visiting or living in) on here take a picture of the alleged drone craft. It would seem that someone would have taken a shot of the device, and posted it. I think it's interesting that no one on here has posted any pictures they have taken of a UFO. I've personally never seen anything more unusual than a home-built kit glider in the skies, so I don't know if such odd things exist.

The text on the underside of the one looks a lot like Japanese characters, to me, specifically it looks similar to Katakana (http://japanesetranslator.co.uk/your-name-in-japanese). The pictures of the device, and the 2 curved parts look like they were done using a computer rendering program. This kind of reminds me of the diagrams and documentation submitted by one John Titor (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Titor) (also a nice hoax, that website is here (http://www.johntitor.com/). Good for a nice evening of reading, if you enjoy sci-fi). The tie-in with the Coast-to-Coast show is just delicious irony and only goes to damage credibility even more.

[breal101]

The clear blue sky is by far the easiest background for a fake, no doubt. As to the issue of members posting photos of UFOs, ask yourself in light of the current discussion would you subject yourself to ridicule and claims that you faked the picture. I think the Katakana idea was expressed on the LMH site, interesting and I would like to know more. I too think the claims of Isaac are suspect at best, and probably BS. The reference to C2C is fair to some extent but in reality stories there and at other so called fringe sites have actually turned up in the mainstream media weeks and even months after they were first posted on some of these sites. The problem those sites have is that they allow nearly anyone, kooks included, to post there. We can't assume that because some are kooks that all are kooks. I would agree that probability is higher but stories in the mainstream often come to light as fabrications as well. Pat Tillman is one example. The Jessica Lynch story another. The source for each was the military. Seems we need to take it all with a grain of salt.

[BillsBayou]

The clear blue sky is by far the easiest background for a fake, no doubt. As to the issue of members posting photos of UFOs, ask yourself in light of the current discussion would you subject yourself to ridicule and claims that you faked the picture. I think the Katakana idea was expressed on the LMH site, interesting and I would like to know more. I too think the claims of Isaac are suspect at best, and probably BS. The reference to C2C is fair to some extent but in reality stories there and at other so called fringe sites have actually turned up in the mainstream media weeks and even months after they were first posted on some of these sites. The problem those sites have is that they allow nearly anyone, kooks included, to post there. We can't assume that because some are kooks that all are kooks. I would agree that probability is higher but stories in the mainstream often come to light as fabrications as well. Pat Tillman is one example. The Jessica Lynch story another. The source for each was the military. Seems we need to take it all with a grain of salt.

If I had the opportunity to capture something flying around out there and I had NO FRIGGIN IDEA what it was, this would be the FIRST place I'd post it. I'd never say "Look! Aliens!" But I'd sure want to know what it was.

I'd like to add I'd never post it in a UFO forum.

[nicksan]

The characters on the "craft" looks nothing like Japanese characters. Perhaps a few of them remotely resembles certain characters.

I would assume that these characters, much like the ones you see in movies, are easy to imagine. Why the "makers" would label the craft like that I am not entirely sure.

However, I believe that there are "others" out "there". The Universe, whatever that is, is too vast not to have other species. It's utterly ridiculous to think otherwise.

Look at what we did on Earth over the course of the last hundred years. Picture a world that had 1000-2000 years on us, which would still be tiny if you compare it to the supposed age of the universe. Imagine the possibilities? The technology?

There are so many questions that cannot be answered. What is the universe? Does it end? It doesn't? What does that mean...that it doesn't end? Cannot compute...CRASH!@#$

LOL...yep, there's something out there.

p.s. Hey, maybe these "guys" heard rumors about the 40D and got all excited and visited us for nothing...:lol:

[StewartR]

From: ufocasebook@aol.com
To: StewartR
Date: Fri, 3 Aug 2007 14:31:51 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Re: More Photographs of Strange Craft Taken at Big Basin

You should be able to save the images by right clicking and selected "save target as." The photographs displayed on the page are the originals as sent to us at the Casebook. We only posted them. The contact information is private, according to their wishes.

thank you,

UFO Casebook Staff MemberHow inconvenient, or convenient (as the case may be).

[StewartR]

It has been suggested that I send an email directly to Linda at Earthfiles to see if she can provide the three images including their EXIF data.

I guess we don't need the originals, just a resize would be fine as long as it has the EXIF data...yes?OK, your turn to try. Full size images please, 2296x1664 pixels, should be about 1-2MB each, with full EXIF. Or else we won't be able to help wondering what they're trying to hide.

[breal101]

The characters on the "craft" looks nothing like Japanese characters. Perhaps a few of them remotely resembles certain characters.

I would assume that these characters, much like the ones you see in movies, are easy to imagine. Why the "makers" would label the craft like that I am not entirely sure.

However, I believe that there are "others" out "there". The Universe, whatever that is, is too vast not to have other species. It's utterly ridiculous to think otherwise.

Look at what we did on Earth over the course of the last hundred years. Picture a world that had 1000-2000 years on us, which would still be tiny if you compare it to the supposed age of the universe. Imagine the possibilities? The technology?

There are so many questions that cannot be answered. What is the universe? Does it end? It doesn't? What does that mean...that it doesn't end? Cannot compute...CRASH!@#$

LOL...yep, there's something out there.

p.s. Hey, maybe these "guys" heard rumors about the 40D and got all excited and visited us for nothing...:lol:

I totally agree, I have to defer to your knowledge of the Japanese language. Could it be they are looking for a 5D MKII as well, or is it the other way around, some of us might think our cameras are alien technology. I guess if we get a picture of a craft hovering over the Canon research center it could be a clue.:lol:

[wrxflame]

We might be getting closer....

Someone dug up this email sent to casebook after my request for clues as to where we can get EXIF data. Seems someone at casebook could be able to contact Jenna and ask for photo's with EXIF data intact.

====
Hi!
(I found a number of email addresses and was not sure which you checked most, so I just played it safe and sent to all of them. I hope this is okay.

My name is Jenna and I participate in a listserv for photographers in Saratoga, CA. Today a member named Stephen posted some pictures he took yesterday (the 5th) for a class assignment in the area around Big Basin. The pictures very clearly depict some kind of large object in the sky, and he was able to get two clear shots and one out-of-focus shot before it apparently disappeared. I recognized certain details on this object immediately because a friend had sent me your About.com article on different UFOs that have appeared recently with a similar appearance.

Now, I should mention that this is a private listserv for a very close-knit group. I have met almost everyone that participates in person and I have met Stephen in particular many times, so I take his word seriously.

We have been discussing it for the last couple of hours and I suggested we start by sending pictures to your web site since you clearly have some familiarity with this situation so far. Unfortunately I'm not a moderator of this listserv and can't give you access, but I can send you copies of the discussion as it develops if you would like to stay abreast. Let me know.

Stephen has given me permission to contact you with his photos and information and you may email him directly if you wish. We don't have any special need for anonymity on this matter and if you would like to post this email along with the photos you may do so. I would be interested in hearing from the other photographers of this kind of craft in particular and seeing what this is all about! The following is his first listserv email which was sent earlier this afternoon:
====

[PhotoJourno]

I am not going into the UFO issue, speculations on what they are, are they real, etc.

I did however look at the photos. From the main page of the first link, four of the five sightings (photos) show the flying device cut off by some other object, an electric pole, and a house's roof, etc. (As if it were easier to fake)

Then, if you analize the sightings recorded and reported, you will quickly notice that this type of sighting is extremely rare, as it does not represent the large majority of the other sightings reported and recorded around the world for the last 50 years.

And for the last bit of thought I will give to this whole issue -I am not an unbeliever, I have seen unidentified flying objects, but I have also seen UDVs, unidentified driving vehicles, passing me at high rates of speed on the freeway, and I cannot identify make or model of the same- let's go to the linguistics.

All markings on the attached documents clearly dictate a similitud between our alphabet and numbers, which would probably never be used by a civilization with the capabilities of this one we see here. (Even the 1977 IBM computers -GPCs- for the Space Shuttle, and back to Apollo and the 60s, used Hex language, and a combination of letters and numbers in order to make that rudimentary technology even possible). This is kind of hard to explain, but letters and numbers are separate on the device. Such level of technology could never leave their own surroundings.

Though I think thte device looks really good, my personal favorite is the steeple at the front. I have no clue what that is for. Definitely not an antenna, not a bayonet, who knows :) )...

Just my .02

[harryb49]

Don't you find it interesting that the name of one of the contributors to this thread is "b real"?

I'm kind of skeptical when it comes to UFOs but I'll be glad to change my mind when they come to visit the President.

[PhotoJourno]

I have no political statement to make, but when I read your post, Independence Day scenes did come to my mind, immediately.

[wrxflame]

I am in communication with Ufo CaseBook. They have agreed to investigate if they still have Stephen's email so they can resend a request for EXIF data on his three photo's taken with the Canon Rebet XT (350D).

It was suggested that his email may have been deleted as they get 100's of people sending stuff in via email all the time and not all of it is kept.

[StewartR]

It was suggested that his email may have been deleted as they get 100's of people sending stuff in via email all the time and not all of it is kept.:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

OK, let's reflect on that. They believe the object shown in these photographs is, or at least may be, of extraterrestrial origin. But they can't be bothered to preserve the evidence chain.

[wrxflame]

Turns out they did have his email and they did try and contact him on several occasions but he's not answered any of them. Seems this Stephen character has gone to ground.

Oh well maybe it's all just a big hoax after all.....

I expect this thread to quiet down for a bit unless someone other than me has anything they found. I will be keeping an eye on the casebook forums and will post here if anything of interest comes to light.

Thanks all for your input, it's been a bit of fun.

[mikerault]

If they are not willing to offer up the evidence for detailed examinination we have to conclude they are fake (well done ones, but still fakes). Maybe we should start a new forum section on photo frauds? Where we can debunk these kinds of things for folks...

Mike

[wrxflame]

Ok some of you lot are going to find this hard to believe or just plain funny. I have two computers at home, an old and new one. The new one was being repaired and I was using the old one when I first started collecting stuff on these drones. I noticed I had a zip file called Rajman1977.zip so I had a look at the pictures and there was EXIF data! It's for a Minolta Dimage X and is very limited but the picture order and time taken seem to fit together.

I have seen these images many times but not Exif data and as I write this I do recall grabbing them very early on in the proceedings.

So I present them out for criteque....

http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b259/wrxflame/PICT0013.jpg

http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b259/wrxflame/PICT0014.jpg

http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b259/wrxflame/PICT0015.jpg

http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b259/wrxflame/PICT0016.jpg

http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b259/wrxflame/PICT0017.jpg

http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b259/wrxflame/PICT0018.jpg

[Guineh]

Let me guess. The EXIF block has only partial info, does not include shot data like shutter speed, focal length, and aperture....

[wrxflame]

Let me guess. The EXIF block has only partial info, does not include shot data like shutter speed, focal length, and aperture....

Your right on the money....but I posted anyway as there is at least some EXIF info where every other image I have seen had nothing.

[StewartR]

Hmmm. No useful data though. Why am I not surprised?I have two computers at home, an old and new one. The new one was being repaired and I was using the old one when I first started collecting stuff on these drones.
How long ago was that, then? The EXIF data on all of these says May 16th, 2007. That's not so old...

[Guineh]

Your right on the money....but I posted anyway as there is at least some EXIF info where every other image I have seen had nothing.

Interesting... yet even more pictures of the object. An article dug up from someone on the snopes message board (Snopes himself, I think...):

http://www.americanchronicle.com/articles/viewArticle.asp?articleID=31120

Not sure what to make of it.

Snopes thread on CARET. (http://message.snopes.com/showthread.php?t=11367)
Snopes thread on pictures. (http://message.snopes.com/showthread.php?t=11383)

[wrxflame]

Hmmm. No useful data though. Why am I not surprised?How long ago was that, then? The EXIF data on all of these says May 16th, 2007. That's not so old...

They both work perfectly, I'm on the old one right now as my wife surfs the net on the new faster better one....which wasn't working till I replaced the HDD a month or so back.

[PhotoJourno]

Check pic0016, two things there are very fishy. First, the bottom cable, as it goes underneath the "ship", it looses contrast, and seems very interesting. The other area is those two cables very close to eachother, if you compare photos with the others of the electric pole, you can see that those two cables are hanging, not in a tense straight line at all, but in an arch. If you look closely where they are attached to the post on 0016, you will see how close together they are. But as you follow the cable down to the end of the photo, they maintain the EXACT distance from each other. This is a physical impossibility. I no longer care about the aliens anymore, I just want electric cables that can stay that close together when in a lobbed position. :)

I think they were taken with the Camera, but modified. A really good try.

[wrxflame]

Check pic0016, two things there are very fishy. First, the bottom cable, as it goes underneath the "ship", it looses contrast, and seems very interesting. The other area is those two cables very close to eachother, if you compare photos with the others of the electric pole, you can see that those two cables are hanging, not in a tense straight line at all, but in an arch. If you look closely where they are attached to the post on 0016, you will see how close together they are. But as you follow the cable down to the end of the photo, they maintain the EXACT distance from each other. This is a physical impossibility. I no longer care about the aliens anymore, I just want electric cables that can stay that close together when in a lobbed position. :)

I think they were taken with the Camera, but modified. A really good try.

I think this was discussed at great length and it was agreed that a white/cream cable had a black cable twisted around it giving the impression of the black cable not lining up. The other wire I noted is part of the thing and is visible in other shots from different witnesses. I did circle the points but it has not carried through sorry.

http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b259/wrxflame/PICT0016wires.jpg

I'm ready for this to be exposed but nobody so far had definitive proof of a hoax.

Oh and one other question, can anyone advise me on how easy it would be to edit and resave EXIF data to an image. Is it possible and what program can you do it in?

[BillsBayou]

I'm ready for this to be exposed but nobody so far had definitive proof of a hoax.

That's funny. We're hoping for someone to prove that it's real.

Prove that the Easter Bunny is real and I'll believe once again. I, however, cannot prove that he does NOT exist.

That's the problem with proving a negative. We cannot prove that they do not exist.

[20droger]

You're wasting your time and effort, Bill. The believers always come back with "prove it isn't real." They refuse to accept the fact that scientific evidence must be proven to be real by the presenter. The assumption is always that something is false unless incontrovertable evidence is provided. All evidence presented here, so far, is very controvertable.

And no amount of "Why would someone go to all the trouble of faking it?" constitutes any form of proof at all. Better ask, "Why do people fake Jesus tomb? Books of the Bible? Hitler's diary? Or anything else that is faked."

[BillsBayou]

Hitler's Diary is a FAKE?

"April 29th, 1945: Dear Diary, today has been a wonderful day. I finally got to go all the way with Eva. It's as if a damn has burst. I cried like a little boy. Heinrich Himmler came by with some edelweiss. It really brightens up the mood of the bunker. He kissed me. I'm so torn. Which way should I go? I saw something in the sky today. It looked like a dragonfly. It had a large opening in the middle and the top looked like an egg whip. I'm going to take Eva outside tomorrow to see it. I think I'll tell Heinrich that it's over between us."

[20droger]

Oy! Hitler's sex life! Trust me, you definitely do NOT want to go there!

[PhotoJourno]

I am not touching that post with a 300ft pole.

(Though I laughed my arse off while reading it)

The one with the journal entry.

[wrxflame]

That's funny. We're hoping for someone to prove that it's real.

Prove that the Easter Bunny is real and I'll believe once again. I, however, cannot prove that he does NOT exist.

That's the problem with proving a negative. We cannot prove that they do not exist.


You're wasting your time and effort, Bill. The believers always come back with "prove it isn't real." They refuse to accept the fact that scientific evidence must be proven to be real by the presenter. The assumption is always that something is false unless incontrovertable evidence is provided. All evidence presented here, so far, is very controvertable.

And no amount of "Why would someone go to all the trouble of faking it?" constitutes any form of proof at all. Better ask, "Why do people fake Jesus tomb? Books of the Bible? Hitler's diary? Or anything else that is faked."

I'm not a blind believer in any of this but I am certainly interested, like you both, and find it a compelling story. Proof....like it's been said, if ET does exist, they will have to land somewhere and call CNN for an interview. The crazy thing is even this could be turned into some CGI stunt unless they banged the place up a bit.

Anyone had a chance to consider my question about faking/editing EXIF data and what program could do it please?

[Guineh]

EXIFTools, I believe allows you to modify the data contained in the image file. If all data were intact, such as maker notes, etc, that would be much more difficult to falsify. (Though, EXIF data could be transferred from one image to the next...which again makes it trivial to falsify exif data) What would make me feel a bit more warm and fuzzy is a pic from a 20D with the forensic package.

[wrxflame]

EXIFTools, I believe allows you to modify the data contained in the image file. If all data were intact, such as maker notes, etc, that would be much more difficult to falsify. (Though, EXIF data could be transferred from one image to the next...which again makes it trivial to falsify exif data) What would make me feel a bit more warm and fuzzy is a pic from a 20D with the forensic package.

Thanks for the clarification that it's not that hard to edit EXIF data. Makes you wonder what the planning list was for these guys when they put this together :D

1. High Power PC/MAC
2. Model kits from the show "Space 1999" & Star Trek
3. Several digital camera's and camera phones
4.
.
.
995. EXIF data editor
996.

Ok...I'll stop now.

[StewartR]

It's not technically hard to edit EXIF data.

But I would suggest that it is moderately difficult to create a complete set of EXIF data which stands up to scrutiny alongside the shots:

Is the shutter speed consistent with the motion blur and camera shake in the photo?
Is the aperture consistent with the DOF in the photo?
Is the focal length consistent with the perspective in the photo?
Is the exposure mode used consistent with the correctness of the exposure in the photo, given the subject nature?
Is the date and time consistent with the weather and the angle of the sun in the photo?
...and so on.

Tricky - but, of course, not impossible.

[StewartR]

Is this video fake?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rBEYc5OUUtw

Well, of course it is, because the person who created it admits it is computer-generated.

It seems to me that this is much more demanding than faking a few photographs. And yet people do it. (Not just this one. There are loads of them on YouTube.)

[Guineh]

Given that video, I'd have to say the images are even more suspect. Not boding well for proving these as real.

[BillsBayou]

HOLY COW! IT IS A FAKE. THE WHOLE THING! THERE'S YOUR PROOF IT'S NOT REAL.

[Guineh]

I'd believe it were real if someone brought one, set it down in the ground, pressed a button on a control fob and the craft took off. :) quietly buzzing, clicking, whirring as described. And I'd just be beside myself if the operator pressed another button on the fob and the vehicle shimmered out of sight. Somehow, I don't think I'll ever have the opportunity to witness such technical greatness. I'll have to stick with marveling at more mundane technical marvels like high resolution LCD screens, Digital TV, and Digital imaging sensors. :D

(edit) There is speculation that this drone is part of a viral marketing campaign for a sequel to a popular game.

[BillsBayou]

(edit) There is speculation that this drone is part of a viral marketing campaign for a sequel to a popular game.


I love this answer to the question "Why would anyone go through the trouble to fake such a thing?"

[Guineh]

If there's money to be made ... :)

(Admittedly, I'm fascinated by and attracted to stuff like this. I know it's a long shot, but it always gives me that "What if it were real" sense of wonder. Too easy to debunk, though. Snopes has had cases of photos that many thought were fake, but turned out to be genuine, though they're few and far between.)

[BillsBayou]

Snopes also has real photos which are misrepresented by viral email messages.

"What if it were real?" is a good way to make yourself look foolish. I have two gears in my head: "Spread the truth" and "Spread lies and make people look like idiots."

The real question people should ask is "What if it is NOT real?"

Many emails are sent around with warnings about gang initiations, parking lot safety, health issues, and so on. Many of these messages are untrue with falsified background stories. They cause undue stress on believers. They cause panic. They have adverse affects on product sales. "What if it is not real and I send it out anyway?" The answer is: You're part of the problem and you're being thought of as an idiot by those of us who take the time to verify the content of email messages before blindly forwarding them on.

"What if it were real?" It'd be on the news, not in your in-box with "Fwd: Fwd: Fwd:..." in the subject line, you moron.

Note: The use of the words "Moron" and "Idiot" is not directed at anyone in this thread or at POTN. I'm ranting at the morons and idiot emailers I call my friends and family. ;)

[Guineh]

Snopes also has real photos which are misrepresented by viral email messages.

yep, but those are usually tagged as such, "Real photo, inaccurate description"

A nice way of saying photo with bovine excrement attached.

And yeah, I get rather sick of the junk that clogs my inbox on a daily basis. I don't know that any news organization would take a story like this based on videos and pictures, even if the thing were real. They'd risk their credibility, nor would I think they would camp out where the prior sighting was, they'd rather not waste their time on a potential hoax.

Having said that, I believe the "craft" in question is either:


A very well built, and equally cleverly suspended plastic model, incapable of flight on its own
A CG creation, wonderfully worked into real scenery.It has the possibility of being part of a viral marketing campaign, and we just played right into it by discussing and sharing pictures of this thing.

Unlikely, but has to remain open: It's a real craft, designed by humans, created by humans, has no parts or design of extraterrestrial origin.

Very unlikely: The results of work with extraterrestrial technology, under the codename CARET. This probably isn't a possibility to even be considered without concrete evidence that this is what it is. A lunatic's ravings on a web page annotated with "scanned copies" of "top secret" documents isn't evidence.

Anyway, all of this is speculation, and I enjoy speculating. Did I forward these pictures to everybody in my mailing list? Of course not!

[PhotoJourno]

So everyone, say what you think is actually written all across the outside of the ship:

(Here are my ideas)

- Baby on Board
- Passport? We don't need no stinking Passport..
- My other Ship is a Millenium Falcon

:)

[20droger]

Honk if you love FSM.

[PhotoJourno]

:lol:

-Trust No one

[Guineh]

- I'd rather be flying my Bird of Prey

[PhotoJourno]

- Watch the Pokey spikes

- "You saw nooothing..."

[Guineh]

- We come to rape, pillage and plunder

[PhotoJourno]

How about this one:

"IF YOU CAN READ THIS, YOUR CIVILIZATION IS DOOMED"

[Guineh]

- My other craft is a death star

[20droger]

- Ray guns don't vaporize Zorgs. Zorgs vaporize Zorgs.

- You can have my blaster when you pry it from my cold, dead tentacles.

- Member: IBA

- Support the ERA - All three sexes are equal.

- Third Quadrant Bangers Rule! [gang markings]

- Altairian Police Dept. [looking for that bad guy who hid out hereabouts]

- Xenobian Search and Rescue [looking for survivors of the Roswell crash]

[I]There is no "writing" on the craft. It's all graffiti.

[PhotoJourno]

- Ray guns don't vaporize Zorgs. Zorgs vaporize Zorgs.

- You can have my blaster when you pry it from my cold, dead tentacles.

- Member: IBA

- Support the ERA - All three sexes are equal.

- Third Quadrant Bangers Rule! [gang markings]

- Altairian Police Dept. [looking for that bad guy who hid out hereabouts]

- Xenobian Search and Rescue [looking for survivors of the Roswell crash]

[I]There is no "writing" on the craft. It's all graffiti.

Made me choke up on my Mountain Dew.
Had a good chuckle. Thanks.

[20droger]

Careful! People who die choking on Mountain Dew are doomed! No way you can get into heaven with that much caffeine.

[BillsBayou]

Idiot, idiot, idiot.

Something falls out of the sky and right away, her first reaction is "Aliens!" The only thing that would make me happier for the idiots in the world is if she had said, after being told the truth, "Yeah, but what if it was really aliens!"


BOYDS, Md. (AP) - Hilary Loewenstein initially thought a strange metal object near the path where she was walking her two dogs looked like a piece of a spaceship. "I was like, 'Oh my God! I saw aliens! Aliens are here!' And I thought, 'How exciting!'" Loewenstein said.
In fact, the 25-pound chunk was not a remnant of a UFO. It was from a commuter jet headed to Washington's Dulles International Airport.
The object landed in a grassy area between houses and soccer fields that often are full of children. No one was hurt, and the plane landed safely.
"We were all very lucky," said Loewenstein, who made the discovery Saturday. "It's so amazing that this piece of airplane didn't fall onto the zillions of houses right behind it."
United Express Flight 7350, which was traveling from Hartford, Conn., apparently shed the small door that retracts when the wheels emerge before landing, airline officials said.
"The landing gear door is not necessary to land the plane," United Airlines spokeswoman Robin Urbanski said. "Customers on the flight were always safe."
The Federal Aviation Administration was to pick up the piece of debris from police Monday and try to figure out why it fell off, FAA spokeswoman Laura Brown said.
"Various things fall off airplanes from time to time, but it's fairly unusual to have one of these landing-gear doors fall off," Brown said. "Airplanes are designed not to shed parts."
Although the debris wasn't from a UFO, Loewenstein said she wasn't too disappointed. "We were very excited to find something like that in the town of Boyds, where nothing ever happens," she said.

[20droger]

At least the natives in "The Gods Must Be Crazy!" had the excuse of isolation and ignorance.

What is this woman's excuse?

[BillsBayou]

Alien writings:

"If you can read this, no one will believe you."

"WWMD What would Martians do?"

"Earthlings. The other white meat."

"Lose Tentacles Now. Ask Me How."

"The meek shall inherit the Earth. We're here to collect."

"Traffic lights timed for Warp 3 are also timed for Warp 6."

"Ignoring the law of gravity since Alpha Centauri."

"My parents went to Altair 7 and all I got was this lousy bumper sticker."

"So many Earthlings, so few recipes."

"God actually IS my co-pilot."

[BillsBayou]

"Take only pictures. Leave only smoking ruins."

[20droger]

- Go metric or die!

[Guineh]

At least the natives in "The Gods Must Be Crazy!" had the excuse of isolation and ignorance.

What is this woman's excuse?

Don't know. If it were me, I would have poked it with a wooden stick, then called the National Enquirer. :lol:

...

Okay, certainly a piece of a plane would look like a piece of a plane. If it was some twisted burned-out chunk of metal, I think I would have assumed it was a satellite.

[PhotoJourno]

One of the parts I love about a tragic movie by the name of "Joe Dirt" is when he actually goes and finds a meteor. Later on, it turns out the meteor was a load of BS, well actually HS -since bull don't fly- dumped by a high altitude airliner, and he had been carrying it for about a third of the movie. Anything that people can't understand is a UFO.

Great interpretations for the markings of the spaceship. :)

[Guineh]

- Visit the scenic vistas of Orisus VI

[20droger]

Don't know. If it were me, I would have poked it with a wooden stick.... :lol:
Isn't that what the old man did in "The Blob"? And what happened to him?

[BillsBayou]

Isn't that what the old man did in "The Blob"? And what happened to him?

Oooooo..... good point.

[20droger]

- I sand-skied Olympus Mons!

[Guineh]

What? He had a nice pet, it grew too big, and he unleashed it on the city he lived in? Shame, shame. This is why you don't go down to the pet stores and buy tiny bits of protoplasm. Sure! they're cute, but the minute they want to digest your horse, you'll turn it loose.

[20droger]

Here Blobby, Blobby. Here Blobby. Where are you, Blobby?

Blobby! Don't absorb little Timmy!

Oooo! Bad Blobby! No biscuit!

[BillsBayou]

I'm sure these pics will make the rounds over the years as proof dispite the CGI fess-up.

[wrxflame]

Just can't help myself.

Thought I'd compare some of those marking of the image I posted with basic EXIF data (PICT0016) with Pg122 from the PACL lingustics documents found at the fortunecity site of the chap who said he worked on this stuff.

http://isaaccaret.fortunecity.com/

It's very interesting to note the similarity of symbols and it makes you wonder that if this is a hoax, they have gone to some massive amounts of trouble....or maybe the US Government is mucking around with arial drones but not of any conventional type. Oh, by the way, I just pointed out a couple there are several "hits" on the pg122 if you look close.

http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b259/wrxflame/LinguisticsRajpic16vPACLpg122.jpg

Yeah I know, get a life and forget about this stuff :D

[wrxflame]

I'm sure these pics will make the rounds over the years as proof dispite the CGI fess-up.

Has someone come forward and claimed responsibility?

Where can I read about this.

Oh by the way if you want to see a great example of CGI flying ET ships, have a look at this.

http://www.coasttocoastam.com/gen/page2157.html?theme=light

[BillsBayou]

Just can't help myself.

Thought I'd compare some of those marking of the image I posted with basic EXIF data (PICT0016) with Pg122 from the PACL lingustics documents found at the fortunecity site of the chap who said he worked on this stuff.

http://isaaccaret.fortunecity.com/

It's very interesting to note the similarity of symbols and it makes you wonder that if this is a hoax, they have gone to some massive amounts of trouble....or maybe the US Government is mucking around with arial drones but not of any conventional type. Oh, by the way, I just pointed out a couple there are several "hits" on the pg122 if you look close.
Yeah I know, get a life and forget about this stuff :D

Are you saying these strange symbols appear in the EXIF data of the photos?

Showing the same symbols in two different areas of the Internet doesn't raise any eyebrows in the non-believer group. We're convinced the UFO fakers all share the same source documents.

[20droger]

Aren't these the same sort of symbols that were used on the old plastic flying saucer model kit back in the '50s?

[BillsBayou]

Aren't these the same symbols that were used on the old Revell plastic flying saucer model kit back in the '50s?

That would only prove that Revell was an alien front. ;)

[20droger]

That would only prove that Revell was an alien front. ;)
My bad. I looked it up and it wasn't Revell. It was Lindberg. So they must be the front.

I have edited my original post.

[BillsBayou]

I wish I could go back 25 years and re-take my Logic class. I'd be better at laughing at these believers.

One of the better arguments offered by the believers is something I call the "coincidence" arguement. The recent post about the similar markings is a great example. They line up a few or a few dozen examples and point out the similarities between them. Because they believe (or would have US believe) in extra-terrestrial technlogies, the ONLY logical solution has to be one which fits their beliefs. Why? Because the string of coincideces is too outrageous to be anything other than extra-terrestrial technology.

Give these people a new font and suddenly all the latest craft photos sport the same markings.

[20droger]

Statistically, coincidence MUST occur. Virtually nothing is truly impossible. Probable is another thing entirely.

I axiomatically believe no-one who puts forth a complex and improbable explanation for anything where a simple and straightforward explanation exists. So far, in lo these very many years, I have been correct in every case where truth was (often, finally) revealed.

I have also noticed that a revelation of truth seldom has any effect upon the beliefs of those who simply wish to believe.

[Tumak]

I will believe in UFO's the day one lands in front of me. If that does happen, you won't hear about it from me.

[20droger]

If it happens, be sure to post the pix (and probably change your underware).

[Tumak]

Change underware, yes. I am telling no one, tho. Same goes for Big Foot.

[BillsBayou]

Change underware, yes. I am telling no one, tho. Same goes for Big Foot.

You saw Big Foot?

[StewartR]

It's an interesting thought experiment though.

Suppose one day you saw an object which you were convinced really was of extra-terrestrial origin. Suppose you have your camera with you and got some photographs. (It goes without saying that they'd be good ones.) And suppose you thought that this was a significant event that needed to be publicised. (And I don't think that's too much of a stretch: We Really Are Not Alone would be the biggest news story of all time, bar none.)

So what would you actually do?

[BillsBayou]

I would actually post them. Then I'd sell them to any nutcase UFO site that wanted to buy them. I'd retain the license, of course. However, I'd make no statements regarding the craft itself other than "I saw this. I captured it with my camera. Wanna buy a copy of my prints?"

[20droger]

I would actually post them. Then I'd sell them to any nutcase UFO site that wanted to buy them. I'd retain the license, of course. However, I'd make no statements regarding the craft itself other than "I saw this. I captured it with my camera. Wanna buy a copy of my prints?"
Good on you. Even if they are nutcases, their money is still money.

[20droger]

You saw Big Foot?
If you see more than one (a family group, perhaps), would you have seen Bigfoots? Or Bigfeet?

[BillsBayou]

I may believe strongly that extra-terrestrial aircraft and technologies do not exist, but I'd sell out in a minute if I had photos that would aid the UFO crowd's cause.

[BillsBayou]

If you see more than one (a family group, perhaps), would you have seen Bigfoots? Or Bigfeet?

Bigsfoot. It's like "brothers-in-law."

"My wife's family is filled with ugly men. I call them the Bigsfoot clan."

[wrxflame]

I wish I could go back 25 years and re-take my Logic class. I'd be better at laughing at these believers.

One of the better arguments offered by the believers is something I call the "coincidence" arguement. The recent post about the similar markings is a great example. They line up a few or a few dozen examples and point out the similarities between them. Because they believe (or would have US believe) in extra-terrestrial technlogies, the ONLY logical solution has to be one which fits their beliefs. Why? Because the string of coincideces is too outrageous to be anything other than extra-terrestrial technology.

Give these people a new font and suddenly all the latest craft photos sport the same markings.

This "by the believers" and "these people" stuff.....I am on the fence champ!

Just because I'm encouranged enough to look a little further puts me in the Loonie's catagory....where's the logic in that?. And in future you can quote me as "Wrxfame says this or that" so everyone is clear on who your picking on ;)

I'm going to keep chiping away at this for a while longer, and hope I find proof of fake. If I don't it's just going to hand around for ages :(

Oh and where's your "it's just CGI" links?

Later
Wrxflame

[Tumak]

You saw Big Foot?

Yeah, he was getting into a UFO with Elvis, JFK and Jackie. ;)

[Tumak]

It's an interesting thought experiment though.

Suppose one day you saw an object which you were convinced really was of extra-terrestrial origin. Suppose you have your camera with you and got some photographs. (It goes without saying that they'd be good ones.) And suppose you thought that this was a significant event that needed to be publicised. (And I don't think that's too much of a stretch: We Really Are Not Alone would be the biggest news story of all time, bar none.)

So what would you actually do?

Nothing. Too much camera shake to make out detail.:lol:

[Tumak]

I would actually post them. Then I'd sell them to any nutcase UFO site that wanted to buy them. I'd retain the license, of course. However, I'd make no statements regarding the craft itself other than "I saw this. I captured it with my camera. Wanna buy a copy of my prints?"

Wait a minute. Then they wouldn't still be nutcases. They would be saying I told you so.

[20droger]

Yeah, he was getting into a UFO with Elvis, JFK and Jackie. ;)
And, demonstrating my age, the UFO was piloted by Judge Crater.

[20droger]

Wait a minute. Then they wouldn't still be nutcases. They would be saying I told you so.
No. A correct nut is still a nut. Witness Velikovsky and the venusian temperature.

[Tumak]

Judge Crater, good grief. Can you beat 61?

[20droger]

Judge Crater, good grief. Can you beat 61?
Oh, indeedy I can. I've been told I'm at least two days older than dirt.

Let's just say I can easily remember when it was hip to be hep, Daddio.

Do you remember the Dumont Network?

How about, "We are the joy boys of radio / We take electrons to and fro."

Or "Ladies and Gentlementals, my name isa Freddy Funky."

[Tumak]

Bigsfoot. It's like "brothers-in-law."

"My wife's family is filled with ugly men. I call them the Bigsfoot clan."

Would this be them: http://bigfootsightings.org/

[Tumak]

Oh, indeedy I can. I've been told I'm at least two days older than dirt.

Maynard G. Krebs was my hero. Well, they say getting old is hell, but I am finding it beats the alternative. :confused:

[Tumak]

Oh, indeedy I can. I've been told I'm at least two days older than dirt.

Let's just say I can easily remember when it was hip to be hep, Daddio.

Do you remember the Dumont Network?

How about, "We are the joy boys of radio / We take electrons to and fro."

Or "Ladies and Gentlementals, my name isa Freddy Funky."

I lived in Utah then. Not a lot of hep cats running around. We had a little round picture tube TV though.

[20droger]

They had TV in Utah in those days?

Little did Philo Farnsworth know what a godawful mess he was creating.

Back to photography, do you remember this lens?

[Tumak]

Philo was from Utah, I believe. Is it an enlarger lens?

[20droger]

Nope, A 1947 Serinar 50mm f/2.0 lens, Leica mount, made by some upstart company called "Kwanon."

And Philo was born in Beaver, UT.

[Tumak]

Any good? I had an M2 with 35mm Summicron for a while.

[20droger]

It compared very favorably with Leica's own 50mm. Caused a bit of a stink at the time.

[Tumak]

If that was the case, I am sure it did. A year younger that me....

[20droger]

1947

[Tumak]

1947
\

Sorry about that, I told you getting old was tough.

[20droger]

Memory is the second thing to go. Fortunately, I still have mine.

We seem to have lost everyone else.

And the pictures are still fake, in my opinion.

[Tumak]

:D What pictures?

[20droger]

The ones this thread is supposed to be about.

[Tumak]

The one this thread is supposed to be about.


Yes, I know. Sorry. Little humor there. Very little.

[20droger]

Well, a warped sense of humor is another thing that often comes with age....

(As well I know.)

[Tumak]

My sence of humor is usually that way. If not, it is dry, almost English. Trust me, the former is better than the latter. And either the pictures are fake, or the UFO is fake. Till someone solves how they can travel faster than light. If they could do that, they wouldn't have to hide out, just come in a say hello or kick our butts, whatever it is they have in mind. Interesting the UFOs didn't seem to start until the super secret jet plane research started. Hmmmm.

[20droger]

My sence of humor is usually that way. If not, it is dry, almost English. Trust me, the former is better than the latter. And either the pictures are fake, or the UFO is fake. Till someone solves how they can travel faster than light. If they could do that, they wouldn't have to hide out, just come in a say hello or kick our butts, whatever it is they have in mind. Interesting the UFOs didn't seem to start until the super secret jet plane research started. Hmmmm.
Gasp! You mean the "artwork" on the Nazca Plains aren't landing strip markers?

[Tumak]

Gasp! You mean the "artwork" on the Nazca Plains aren't landing strip markers?

I think not. Interesting, though.

[wrxflame]

Hi to all those who contributed to this little thread and anyone new, welcome.

Not a great deal has been happening with the drones, mostly infighting between the believers and non-believers and nothing more from Mr ISSAC and his documents.

That said, a chap called saladfingers who was a big contributor to the ufo forums with cgi attepts at drones has now build a masterpice music video that is something to behold regardless of your thoughs on the subject and we worth a look.

He also is a fence sitter leaning towards well constructed fakes

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tn_BGwwP9yw

I love the music, so does my 10 yo son. We want it to play as a CD in the car.


Regards
Andrew

[Guineh]

I'll have to watch the video at home ... so I can get the audio. I looked at it briefly, lends a lot of credence to the clever fake bin.

[BillsBayou]

And the award for administering the worst beating to a dead horse for October 9, 2007 goes to......

[wrxflame]

And the award for administering the worst beating to a dead horse for October 9, 2007 goes to......

Don't be like that Bills :D, it's a piece of art regardless of the subject and obviously the "dead horse" still motivated salad to spend the countless hours building this.

[BillsBayou]

This thread has been dead for two months. Were you bored? ;)

[wrxflame]

This thread has been dead for two months. Were you bored? ;)

Not at all, the horse had lay down and rested for two months as you said but when I saw the video I just had to post a link here.

[BillsBayou]

Oh, okay. So you're just here to let us know that the CGI guy is back with a longer movie to keep that dead horse well beat.

[thomascanty]

Here, Bill... Use this: http://www.ldphotography.net/Smilies/deadhorsewp2.gif

[breal101]

Oh, okay. So you're just here to let us know that the CGI guy is back with a longer movie to keep that dead horse well beat.
I have seen no proof that this is CGI, personally I think it may well be but where is the proof. Andrew thanks for the link, very well done video.

[BillsBayou]

I have seen no proof that this is CGI, personally I think it may well be but where is the proof. Andrew thanks for the link, very well done video.

http://www.ldphotography.net/Smilies/deadhorsewp2.gif

[breal101]

What does that mean? Offering opinion as fact doesn't settle anything.

[Guineh]

The horse is dead, the little yellow guy is beating it. I think it's alluding to someone beating a dead horse...

[breal101]

Pronouncing the horse dead seems a bit premature to me. No one has shown anything but an opinion. Bill has continually called people who report UFOs wackos and worse. The fact of the matter is the complete opposite. So who killed the horse?

[wrxflame]

According to my latest company phsyic testing, I'm quite normal if a little too nice for the job role I'm in :D

I am a wacko because my family saw something very difficuly to explain in the early hours one morning when I was a kid?

I don't think so....do I love the drone story, you bet. Is it real/fake, who knows :confused: but I for one am enjoing the journey and thought that others may want to come along for the ride.

I not here to tell you it's true, you gotta work that out for yourselves.

"Am I bored" was asked of me earlier, I guess the fact that I don't hang out in the "General Chat" area very much probably answers that question....surely this is where the bored come to find a topic and get lost in it for a while.

Regards
Andrew

[mikerault]

Take a lok at the drone in this picture from Scientific America, October 2007 edition, anything look familiar?

[breal101]

Assume for a minute the pictures in question are of a prototype of the device pictured in the magazine. Wouldn't you love to see the video from the drone's perspective of the people who saw it? Youtube anyone?

[mikerault]

For sure!