Is there a right way to turn a picture black and white ?

[90blackcrx]

Is there a right and a wrong way ?

[Radtech1]

There is only one wrong way, and that is to simply Desaturate.

There are (at last count) 35,891,218 ± 50,000 right ways to do it. So that means odds are in your favor.

Assuming Photoshop: use the HELP feature and look up "Chanel Mixer" and learn how to work that. Also check here ( http://www.atncentral.com/download.htm ) under the "Black and White Conversion" heading. Finally, do the following Google search (everything in the brackets, but not the brackets themselves): [ +tutorial +"black and white" +Photoshop ].

Rad

[90blackcrx]

There is only one wrong way, and that is to simply Desaturate.

Why is that wrong though, thats what I did to turn one black and white, thats why I asked.

Was using DPP

Also if I get a picture printed and want black and white, I can simply leave it in color and they will print it in black and white... is that the best way ?

[Radtech1]

Desaturate gives the flattest possible tone response. ANYTHING is better than that. Look around.

Rad

[90blackcrx]

Hmm so you just hit monochrome and its black and white ? Right off the bat I noticed the signed looked a lot different turning it black and white in photoshop, rather then doing what you said not to.

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y72/90blackcrx/e7158390.jpg

DPP , turning the saturation down
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y72/90blackcrx/79b3299f.jpg

Photoshop, using monochrome
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y72/90blackcrx/52b47677.jpg

Does that last pic look right ?

[Sydor25]

My quick conversion using CS3 (hope you don't mind):

http://sydor25.com/Pictures/e7158390.jpg

[90blackcrx]

Care to explain what you did ? I don't think I like the way the channel mixer did the photo I used. My one other question, if I'm getting it printed in black and white, should I even adjust it in photoshop or will the lab do it all ?

[Radtech1]

Care to explain what you did ? I don't think I like the way the channel mixer did the photo I used. My one other question, if I'm getting it printed in black and white, should I even adjust it in photoshop or will the lab do it all ?

Hard to say what you should do.

For me, I always convert before having them printed. As far as you saying, "I like the way the channel mixer did the photo I used", did you try adjusting the three different sliders up and down (with "Monochrome" checked)? When you do that, you get an almost infinite variety of shadings and emphasis. I am amazed that NONE of them looked good?

Rad

[90blackcrx]

Hard to say what you should do.

For me, I always convert before having them printed. As far as you saying, "I like the way the channel mixer did the photo I used", did you try adjusting the three different sliders up and down (with "Monochrome" checked)? When you do that, you get an almost infinite variety of shadings and emphasis. I am amazed that NONE of them looked good?

Rad

They looked good but for some reason that pic I did the wrong way, I like. I mean can I achieve that with the channel mixer ? I need to mess with it more though.

[90blackcrx]

Here is one I just did, what I'm not liking is the sign looks to black, what color or setting would I have to mess with to get it lighter.

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y72/90blackcrx/bc1a16ea.jpg

Actually after uploading it, I like that. Almost looks like the one guys right before me... what do you think guys ?

[Radtech1]

I am at work right now (which means no PS in front of me). To adjust the tone of the sign, you would want to move the green slider. I don't remember if "right" or "left" will brighten it or darken it, but it is clearly the green slider.

If that adjust the rest of the picture in a manner you don't like, try this: Duplicate the layer making a total of 2 layers. Turn off the top layer, and working on the bottom layer, adjust it so the sign is the way you like it. Don't worry about the rest of the shot.

When you get the sign perfect, move to the top layer and adjust that so that the rest of the shot is how you like it and don't worry about the sign.

When you get the top layer the way you like it, then use the eraser tool and erase the "bad sign" from the top layer to reveal the good one underneath. Be careful around the edges, or it could look fakey.

When you get that done, just flatten the layers.

Rad

[90blackcrx]

I figured it was the green, but when I moved that, the back round got really light or dark. Just I guess have to mess with that feature. I do see now though that saturation almost takes the detail away basically.

[lnterestlng]

A good way to see what you might want is to look at each channel by itself. Then you will know which to turn up or down in the channel mixer. Just click on each channel in the channels pallette. It's really all personal taste. If you want the sign to look less black then turn the green slider up. and the red down a little. Then to get more black turn down the constant.
Example:
193101

You can also mask out the bg and use a seperate adjustment layer on it.

193104

[90blackcrx]

What I noticed was when I just desaturated it in DPP, I also toned some of the color down creating the dark sky look. Where in photoshop can I go to tone the colors down ? Where would be the right spot ?

There is not a way to turn a picture in black and white with dpp ? I mean the right way, is desaturation really the wrong way though cause I'm seeing some people suggestions that on google.

[lnterestlng]

It's not "wrong'. You just have no control at all over your tones. Photoshop and it's many avenues just gives you a little more control in order for you to make what your mind sees. Have a look at your Image>Adjustments menu. All your adjustment tools are in there.

[90blackcrx]

It's not "wrong'. You just have no control at all over your tones. Photoshop and it's many avenues just gives you a little more control in order for you to make what your mind sees. Have a look at your Image>Adjustments menu. All your adjustment tools are in there.

Here is the deal though, when I do it in DPP and adjust the colors, the picture gets lighter or darker in that aread, right now when I do it in photoshop, the picture gains color and changes, even when its in black and white.

[liza]

Or you can be lazy, like me, and use an action.

With Yervant's Color to Black & White action:

http://www.smugmug.com/photos/177950411-M.jpg

With an action I got from the members section of DWF:

http://www.smugmug.com/photos/177950452-M.jpg

And last but not least, a freebie Ilford 100 action:

http://www.smugmug.com/photos/177950763-M.jpg

There are thousands of actions out there for this kind of thing.

[90blackcrx]

Where can I get them at ?

[liza]

The top two are no longer available. The last one probably came from www.atncentral.com. There are about 5,000 other Photoshop actions on the Adobe Exchange website, too, and most of them are free. Another place for a lot of free stuff is the Resources section of the Deviant Art site.

[Radtech1]

OK, here is a quick and easy mono conversion that will give the ability to adjust the tonal response without getting into channel mixer. I hammered it out in CS, so it should play in CS and above. I also suspect it is OK in PS7 as well.

Just to clarify, I DID NOT "write" this action in the sense of thinking up how it works. I read this method of mono conversion on some long forgotten Photoshop site years ago. If anyone knows where I read it, or who originally wrote it, speak up, as I will gladly give credit.

But when I used the technique the first time, I thought it would make a for a pretty cool "quick and dirty" conversion, and still retain a good deal of control, so I typed it up as an action and have been using it for a long time. One of the things that I like about it, is that it does not alter the global intensity - unlike channel mixer - you don't have to keep three sliders in balance to maintain brightness.

When you run the action, you will end up with two adjustment layers. One says "Use Other" - if that is not self evident, then nothing can help you.

The other says "Adjust Hue" - so you don't have to cipher out what this means:

Then just double click HERE:

http://dc27.4shared.com/download/20932335/80787f8e/ClickHere.jpg

And that will bring up the adjustment window. Move the Hue slider back and forth and see the changes as you do so.

When you are happy, flatten and save.

Below is the download link for the action:

http://dc27.4shared.com/download/20931512/3a125bf3/Matt_Mono.atn

Enjoy,

Rad

[Radtech1]

Here are some samples (No other adjustments were done):

Out of Camera:

http://dc27.4shared.com/download/20932738/f9c0abef/OOC.jpg

Hue moved to +100:

http://dc27.4shared.com/download/20932741/cf5d858c/Plus100.jpg

Hue moved to -115:

http://dc27.4shared.com/download/20932736/1e7886e8/Minus115.jpg