Beware of caddies!

[Pekka]

Read

http://www.caddybytes.com/caddy_camera_controversy.htm

and

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2004/golf/specials/us_open/2004/06/18/bc.glf.woods.caddie.ap/index.html

[MT]

it appeared that he walked back into the crowd and confiscated one today in the last round.

[eric1]

he ain't the police, he can't take anything from you. i'd like to see him try and take MY camera. granted the photog should not have been making noise, so throw him out. you can't just walk up , steal someones personal
belongings, and think it's ok. they will pay. the guy is acting on tigers
behalf, and tiger has too much money for some caddy to do somthing that stupid. man golfers are touchy. just another man who thinks he's
better than the rest of us becuase he has more jack. i guess next time he'll just pull out a gun, and shoot back. :lol:

eric1

[Tom W]

I'll put it in simple terms - if somebody tries to remove my camera from my neck, I'll beat the snot out of them. Even the police don't have the right to remove your property and toss it into the lake - Tiger's lackey certainly doesn't either.

I understand the desire of pro golfers to have some peace and quiet while they concentrate on the game, but there is no reason for this man's actions in either event.

[Tom W]

i guess next time he'll just pull out a gun, and shoot back. :lol:

eric1

If he's in the south, chances are that he'll be outdrawn. :D

[Laziferous]

I'll put it in simple terms - if somebody tries to remove my camera from my neck, I'll beat the snot out of them.
Amen my brother.

[CoolToolGuy]

Interesting to compare these replies to some of the discussions about 'amateur' photographers interfering with the 'pros'.

These athletes are competing for a $1 million prize check, and if a shutter click causes them to break concentration and miss a shot, the rules don't allow them to take the shot over. :? So you may not have to worry about it happening to you, 'cause we all know that the members of this forum are courteous enough to know when to aim and when to shoot, but what should be done to those that aren't?

Have Fun,

[ilya]

watching the open, I heard the unmistakable machine gun sound of the MkII several times just at the moment when club hits the ball. to have that happen on the backswing would be ridiculous- and I believe any golfer would tell you same. sorry, I'm with stevie. this sort of thing is beyond bad manners. its akin to paparazzi - you infringe on someone's livelihood (or life) to line your pocket. i would be more forgiving if it was an amateur, but its extremely bad manners nevertheless.

[Ikinaa]

Interesting to compare these replies to some of the discussions about 'amateur' photographers interfering with the 'pros'.

These athletes are competing for a $1 million prize check, and if a shutter click causes them to break concentration and miss a shot, the rules don't allow them to take the shot over. :? So you may not have to worry about it happening to you, 'cause we all know that the members of this forum are courteous enough to know when to aim and when to shoot, but what should be done to those that aren't?

Have Fun,

Just my two cents : They may be competing for $1million, but without fans or people watching, they're nothing.
Imagine they're playing golf and no one's interested, and no one, looks, so no sponsor, no cash.
IMO, the caddy could have said to the fan to stop it, and that's it.
But I guess after that action, they've lost a fan or two.
So next time, a plane comes overhead and his boss misses because of the distant hum of the engines, he gets some SAM and shoots the plane down?

[Tom W]

These athletes are competing for a $1 million prize check, and if a shutter click causes them to break concentration and miss a shot, the rules don't allow them to take the shot over. :? So you may not have to worry about it happening to you, 'cause we all know that the members of this forum are courteous enough to know when to aim and when to shoot, but what should be done to those that aren't?

Have Fun,

Its understandable that they want some peace and quiet, and there are course/PGA rules governing such things. But given that the event is crawling with cops, the caddie's only proper (and legal) response is to report the offender to the authorities who can choose to politely ask him to stop or, if necessary, politely escort him off the premises.

There is no excuse for a caddy to assault a fan. And, there is ample excuse for the fan to exercise his right to self defense.

Also, consider the other, louder sounds on a pro golf tour - from planes flying overhead to sneezes to the crowd cheering at the adjacent hole. That stuff is much louder than the soft click of most camera shutters. Most pros tune that stuff out.

[stopbath]

Perhaps the answer is to allow MORE cameras on the field.

If ONE camera fouled Tigers concentration, then obviously, the field is too quiet.

Or perhaps Tiger could learn to meditate better. Clear his mind of all distractions... Let the noise flow past him, instead of breaking his concentration...

[Cadwell]

Generally when a small noise like that is considered a "major distraction" by a player it's because he's playing/performing badly already and is looking for an excuse. If Tiger was playing well I doubt if he would have even noticed.

Anyway... the caddy's actions in this case are criminal, regardless of any provocation.

[Belmondo]

I live in one of the golf Meccas of the world but do not play. It has given me a unique perspective from which to observe golfers, and I am now absolutely convinced that this particular form of 'relaxation' is one of the major causes of stress among adult males (and occasionally females) who engage in the sport. I've seen people coming off the course after a bad round, and they are definitely not relaxed.

I think golf, tennis, bowling, or any sport where strict rules of silence are observed need to learn from the two most popular sports in the US---football and NASCAR racing. Noise is good. In fact, the more noise, the better.

A lively, raucus gallery could improve the game significantly.

[Tom W]

I live in one of the golf Meccas of the world but do not play. It has given me a unique perspective from which to observe golfers, and I am now absolutely convinced that this particular form of 'relaxation' is one of the major causes of stress among adult males (and occasionally females) who engage in the sport. I've seen people coming off the course after a bad round, and they are definitely not relaxed.

As one who has played the occasional round of golf, I have learned the most important rule of the game - it just doesn't matter. Just play - stop worrying about winning. Unless, of course, someone offers $1 million for winning - then its "no prisoners".

I think golf, tennis, bowling, or any sport where strict rules of silence are observed need to learn from the two most popular sports in the US---football and NASCAR racing. Noise is good. In fact, the more noise, the better.

A lively, raucus gallery could improve the game significantly.

Actually, I've never been to a quiet bowling alley, but I otherwise might agree. If golf fans were more like football or soccer fans, it would be an improvement. I suspect that the occasional scuffle in the crowd would add to the excitement.

Maybe those golfers should quiet down their swings - its disturbing the photographers. ;)

[ilya]

understanding that this is now all tongue in cheek, i just want to draw a analogy - you invite someone into your home and they insult your wife's cooking. no one needs to go to a golf tournament, but if one does, then one needs to abide by rules.

but i wholeheartedly agree that many golfers are nutjobs. to throw clubs and obscenities around when your swing isn't working (because you've never been to the practicew range) is counter to anything. the game is unique in that perspective. if you just took up basket weaving and your baskets are all crooked on your first try, you don't get all depressed. if you are learning swahili, do you get depressed if you aren't fluent in a month. etc. (do you swear if you take a bad foto? :) .

[CoolToolGuy]

Noise/no noise could be debated, since baseball players manage to hit home runs with higher levels of noise than PGA Tour players endure. But the state of the (golf) game today is different.

As one who has tried to learn the game of golf (and is struggling to improve enough to be considered a poor golfer), I have found that the level of concentration, muscle control, and shot knowledge required to hit the little white ball exactly to a selected point is very difficult.

As the rules are, silence is required by the customers (patrons for the Augusta crowd) while players are preparing to execute their shots. Those are the rules that you agree to abide by when you walk through the gate. Trouble is, if you do not abide by them and interfere with a player, the player doesn't get a do-over - they have to play the shot. The Tour absolutely needs the customers, but the customers need to have enough knowledge and discipline to abide by the rules.

I don't condone the confiscation of a camera by a caddie, but it is a problem. Tiger Woods has the biggest exposure to it, because no matter how well he is playing, he is the big name in the sport right now, and will have the most folks who want to get his picture. Most likely the offenders are not professionals, because they risk losing their credentials and hence their livelihood.

Have Fun,

[tommykjensen]

I also play golf at the high handicap of 36 so I know what it takes to actually hit that damn little ball... And its not easy but I think they exagerate when they say a simple click on a camera disturbs them. Then what about the wind, the crowds on other holes, airplanes and so on.

And I think Tiger is causing some of the problems himself! For example I was so lucky that I got invited to a traning day at the last Ryder Cup in England and on that particular day Tiger decided to do his official practice so early in the morning that nobody got a chance to see him, he didn't even have the respect to practice with his teammates. I found that so disrespectfull to his fans. So when he disappears like that he himself is causing a situation where it is likely that some would try to get the photos during the live days instead of on the practice days.

Also I think the security has to be improved to get rid of that problem. Again using Ryder Cup as an example. When I arrived all guests had to go through a security check and then take a bus to get to the golf course. However the security was useless. I saw several that took of their overcoat and put it on a desk next to the metal detector, got through the detector and pick up the coat without it having been examined. This way people can bring mobile phones and cameras despite of the rules.

The solution is thus simple, guests should be forced to checkin mobile phones and cameras at the security checkpoint and only proffessional photographers with the proper credentials should be allowed to bring cameras, and if they don't respect the rules they should be banned for a number of events and on subsequent failuers to obey they should be banned permanently.

[Longwatcher]

I have noticed that some cameras are quieter then others. Also a sharp clicky noise when there is otherwise quiet, is very disturbing. What the stories don't say is what camera was used, by $7000 camera I would presume 1Ds at this time, but it could have been a film Hassy or other medium format. If your camera is noisy it is rude to take pictures during the final swing (unless you are actually playing against him :)

Also left out of the first story is how quiet everything else was at the time. The second story was obvious just bullying by Steve the caddy.

I know my 10D is fairly quiet, but having just gotten to pay with a 1DM2 recently, it was very noisy compared to my 10D (although it sure was fun to play with until my card filled up). So I can believe that certain cameras may be more annoying then others.

and although the are playing for lots of money, Golf should never be taken seriously. I know because I have played the game.

Just my rambling and opinion,

[Tom W]

Noise/no noise could be debated, since baseball players manage to hit home runs with higher levels of noise than PGA Tour players endure. But the state of the (golf) game today is different.

As one who has tried to learn the game of golf (and is struggling to improve enough to be considered a poor golfer), I have found that the level of concentration, muscle control, and shot knowledge required to hit the little white ball exactly to a selected point is very difficult.

As the rules are, silence is required by the customers (patrons for the Augusta crowd) while players are preparing to execute their shots. Those are the rules that you agree to abide by when you walk through the gate. Trouble is, if you do not abide by them and interfere with a player, the player doesn't get a do-over - they have to play the shot. The Tour absolutely needs the customers, but the customers need to have enough knowledge and discipline to abide by the rules.

I don't condone the confiscation of a camera by a caddie, but it is a problem. Tiger Woods has the biggest exposure to it, because no matter how well he is playing, he is the big name in the sport right now, and will have the most folks who want to get his picture. Most likely the offenders are not professionals, because they risk losing their credentials and hence their livelihood.

Have Fun,

I can't really disagree - the rules are there, and making sounds during execution can be very distracting if the noise stands out above the background. I'm just a bit upset, however, over the method that was used to eradicate the problem. The caddy should have been arrested on the spot for assault and battery - in both cases. But it is apparent that some people are seen in a different light with the law, which is why I advocate the use of self-defense by the camera wielding folks in both cases.

[stopbath]

A lively, raucus gallery could improve the game significantly.

Yes, would make for better watching, having a lively audience. Having a commentator whisper would be a thing of the past...

Imagine the throngs of bystanders chanting in unison: "Tiger, Tiger, Tiger, Tiger, Tiger" Tiger turns around, glares at the audience after missing a putt, and his caddy pulls out the duct tape to shut them all up... :roll:

Choice!

[timmyquest]

granted the photog should not have been making noise, so throw him out.

eric1

Bull****. The only reason tiger woods is tiger woods is because of you and i. Without us there is no need for advertisement, without advertisement there is not tiger woods.

A camera shutter? Give me a break. Tiger woods is by far the biggest bitch in sports. He plays like crap the other day and complains that the greens were too hard (not that they wernt). He complains about cameras...get real. I've never heard of another golfer bitching about such a thing (this includes fast, hilly greens). If i'm paying $100+ to come watch you, and have enough respect for you to buy a $7,000 camera to capture an image of you...my golf idol, then you ****ing deal with it.

Yes there are exceptions, yelling "GOOOOOOOOOOO TIIIIIGER!!!!!!!!" in his backswing is out of line, just like jumping on the football field to give Brian Urlacher a high-five.

I use to caddy, there are so many other noises on the course (and this is with out the 300 people at the tee) that a camera shutter shouldnt be all that distracting to a golfer who is so good that he can make $90 million in one year.

Tiger woods can take his $90 and stick it up his ass.

[eric1]

the photog must have LET him have his cam. how you gonna take one off someones neck? i would have lept to the ground screaming and crying, and not got up untill the ambulance took me away! with my cam still around my neck. clearly THIS photog was not thinking.

eric1

[Tom W]

the photog must have LET him have his cam. how you gonna take one off someones neck? i would have lept to the ground screaming and crying, and not got up untill the ambulance took me away! with my cam still around my neck. clearly THIS photog was not thinking.

eric1

I would guess that he was intimidated by the caddy's bully tactics. Still, the cops should have pounced on the caddy at that juncture. I would also guess that there's a significant size difference there - bullies generally only pick on folks that they think aren't a threat to them.

[henkbos]

It's about time that all those high payed pros in all sports realize that we pay there salary. They entertain us by putting up a good show, being it displaying their skills in competing against others.
If they can't cope with interfering of the public they should do something else.

[Ikinaa]

For those of you who don't take it too serious, I mean golf, try this...

http://yeti1.yetisports.org/_beta_yetisports5/#

then clîck on first link...

Now that's an interesting golf-game... :lol:

[tommykjensen]

For those of you who don't take it too serious, I mean golf, try this...

http://yeti1.yetisports.org/_beta_yetisports5/#

then clîck on first link...

Now that's an interesting golf-game... :lol:

THAT is hilarious :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

[stopbath]

Golf for (computer) geeks: Geelf.

Rules for geelf are here: http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?RulesOfGeelf

About as much ungolf as you can get using a golfball.

[CyberDyneSystems]

These "Pros" are surounded by hundreds.,. if not thousands of fans on these tournaments.. to decide that the one noise worth getting upset about is a tiny shutter click?? Absurd! The fans "try" to be quiet at the right time.. but they aren't. It simply isn't possible for that many people to hold there breath and not make a sound. People cough,. people move... if some old guys cordoroys make a noise.. I don't see the Caddy ripping his pants off and throwing them in the lake.

Sure.. Tiger is going to pay for the destroyed camera.. but what about all that poor guys pics? Gone I'm sure.

I may not have been able to "save" the camera.. (don't know how big this Caddy is) but I assure.. the Caddy would at the very least have had the Camera shoved up his @$$.. if the camera goes.. it's taking him with it! :shock:

[timmyquest]

These "Pros" are surounded by hundreds.,. if not thousands of fans on these tournaments.. to decide that the one noise worth getting upset about is a tiny shutter click?? Absurd! The fans "try" to be quiet at the right time.. but they aren't. It simply isn't possible for that many people to hold there breath and not make a sound. People cough,. people move... if some old guys cordoroys make a noise.. I don't see the Caddy ripping his pants off and throwing them in the lake.

Sure.. Tiger is going to pay for the destroyed camera.. but what about all that poor guys pics? Gone I'm sure.

I may not have been able to "save" the camera.. (don't know how big this Caddy is) but I assure.. the Caddy would at the very least have had the Camera shoved up his @$$.. if the camera goes.. it's taking him with it! :shock:

Hadnt even thought of that...maybe he can sue for future royalties