The humiliation of the vignette

[I Simonius]

What is it with this abolishion of vignetting? ( is the 'perfectly OK Van Act of 1943' to blame?)

With the arrival of 35mm digital full frame sensors (FFS) there have been nothing but bad reports recieved concerning the tendency of fast lenses to produce vignetting (darkening at the edges) at wider apertures. Wherefore this across the board objection to vignetting?

I appreciate that its unwanted presence may betray potential technical limitations of the camera equipment and that due to the frantic paddling for first place in the digital race on the frothy waters of innovation, the discarding of any hint that alludes to 'old' technology is de rigeur, even if only amongst consumers and not the manufacturers (whom I'm sure nonetheless encourage such unbridled nitpicking) but surely technical perfection, or the lack of it , is not everything in matters photographic? The presence of vignetting is, I would argue, not always as unwanted as so prolifically reported.

Historically the visual vignette had an accepted and established role in the mediums of both painting and photography, yet suddenly the respect it once held has been unceremoniously flushed away and it is now abhorred as being synonymous with nothing more than manufacturing imperfection and it's stripped of its artistic merit like a dishonoured soldier of his medals.

I hardly think it should be construed as symptomatic of recidivist leanings or of straw clinging Leica enthusiasm to proclaim the positive virtues of vignetting or to argue for its reinstatement as meritorious, but you would think from the damning it gets that it never had nor will ever again have any purpose except perhaps to shame its perpetrators; to dismiss those that indulge in it's use as either plain ignorant or as digital reprobates.

Deliberate vignetting is a tool as worthy as any other artistic device and should not have the context for which it was better known and better recieved, prior to the digital revolution, dismissed out of hand with nary a backward glance in the shoestring-tripping headlong lunge for the aggrandisment of technology over vision

It is as though those that employ the vignette, by association align themselves with the less well equipped, with the less well endowed; with those who cannot afford or who cannot appreciate the latest and greatest; with those who are politely, if patronisingly, humiliated by the technerati who excise such evidences of impropriety without a second thought as to their value outside of their blinkered pixel peeping. It is as if the once noble vignette now attracts only humiliation, but it is those that would denigrate it that should be ashamed, for they illustrate the darkness at their very own periphery by their tunnel vision.

:p

[howzitboy]

whats a vignette? ;)

[I Simonius]

whats a vignette? ;)

It's a diminutive winemaker;)

[tzalman]

Deliberate vignetting is a tool as worthy as any other artistic device and should not have the context for which it was better known and better recieved, prior to the digital revolution, dismissed out of hand with nary a backward glance in the shoestring-tripping headlong lunge for the aggrandisment of technology over vision

It is as though those that employ the vignette, by association align themselves with the less well equipped, with the less well endowed; with those who cannot afford or who cannot appreciate the latest and greatest; with those who are politely, if patronisingly, humiliated by the technerati who excise such evidences of impropriety without a second thought as to their value outside of their blinkered pixel peeping. It is as if the once noble vignette now attracts only humiliation, but it is those that would denigrate it that should be ashamed, for they illustrate the darkness at their very own periphery by their tunnel vision.

:p

Agreed, agreed. And I would maintain the same about a judicious touch of grain.

[PhotosGuy]

What is it with this abolishion of vignetting? Bell curve? With 100,000+ members, no matter what you do, some will love it, someone will hate it, & some should go out & spend more time shooting & less time talking about it? ;)

[I Simonius]

Bell curve? With 100,000+ members, no matter what you do, some will love it, someone will hate it, & some should go out & spend more time shooting & less time talking about it? ;)

yes ...and no:lol:

It's fun to have a ramble occasionalement - non? innit?;):p:)

[PhotosGuy]

...and no & some should go out & spend more time shooting & less time talking about it? wasn't aimed at you, but if the shoe fits...! :D

[I Simonius]

& some should go out & spend more time shooting & less time talking about it? wasn't aimed at you, but if the shoe fits...! :D

it do, it do bor!... but the shoe only fits on one foot;)

It's just I DO feel I should spend more time out shooting!:D

BUT major house renovations and prospective movings not going accordion to plan have severely curtailed any plans I might have had for shooting, living... everything in fact, has gone clean out the window over the last few months... jst stariting to see the light at the end of the tunnel.. so yes definitely need to start getting out shooting again:cool:

[canonphotog]

With the arrival of 35mm digital full frame sensors (FFS) there have been nothing but bad reports recieved concerning the tendency of fast lenses to produce vignetting (darkening at the edges) at wider apertures. Wherefore this across the board objection to vignetting?


Historically the visual vignette had an accepted and established role in the mediums of both painting and photography, yet suddenly the respect it once held has been unceremoniously flushed away and it is now abhorred as being synonymous with nothing more than manufacturing imperfection and it's stripped of its artistic merit like a dishonoured soldier of his medals.

Deliberate vignetting is a tool


You're still free to use filters, etc., even photoshop to add vignetting if that's your desire.

With today's technology, none of us should have to put up with vignetting/light fall off being inherent in lens design..., unless we choose to add it to the creative process.

[20droger]

whats a vignette? ;)

It's a diminutive winemaker;)
Of the female persuasion. Otherwise it's a "vignet."

And if you drink enough, every picture will bear a vignette -- and the rest of the world, too!

[I Simonius]

You're still free to use filters, etc., even photoshop to add vignetting if that's your desire.

Obviously, but the point is how will that vignetting be viewed? As artistic or as techincal limitation?
It is peoples expectations I was addressing not technique

With today's technology, none of us should have to put up with vignetting/light fall off being inherent in lens design..., unless we choose to add it to the creative process.

well that's not quite true as any FF camera will show vignetting from certain lenses no matter how new or up to date they are e.g. 14mmL etc

But again this is the point I was addressing , this conviction that vignetting is something we shouldn't have to put up with with the automatic assumption that is is a symptom of a malady first and foremost

Of the female persuasion. Otherwise it's a "vignet."



quite right - well spotted!;):D

[canonphotog]

Whether it's artistic or a technical limitation is a distinction to be made by the individual photographer and the image viewer/audience/client.

You missed the point on vignetting and today's technology..., The vignetting "from certain lenses no matter how new or up to date they are e.g. 14mmL etc" is not something we have to tolerate or put up with.

Why do you think Canon has finally produced a 16-35 MK II?, To enhance the vignetting/light fall-off on FF bodies?...

[I Simonius]

Why do you think Canon has finally produced a 16-35 MK II?, To enhance the vignetting/light fall-off on FF bodies?...

not really - that wasn't a lens that vignetted badly but it did have lousy edge definition - which they fixed

You make my point though - that vignetting haas a worse reputation than it deserves;)

[Jon, The Elder]

I often use vignette and oil on my dinner salads.

[20droger]

I often use vignette and oil on my dinner salads.
Is that basalmic vignette?

[Barb42]

I tend to darken the edges on purpose. It tends to keep the eye of the viewer where you want it in the image. but then, I shoot for fine art and not commerially. However, I don't recall having any such problems with my lens collection.

[20droger]

On a serious note, much of what is called vignetting is not. It is light fall off, usually a cosine fourth phenomenon. With this phenomenon, the illuminance of the image is a function of the angle at which the light strikes the film or sensor. With lenses of traditional design, this is more of a problem with short focal lengths than with long focal lengths.

With digital cameras, this problem is exacerbated. Sensors utilize microlenses over each pixel to capture the light and focus it on the active area of the photosite. This typically results in a light drop off independent of the cosine fourth phenomenon, and more closely related to a cosine-cosine third phenomenon.

The solution is to keep the light stricking the sensor as perpendicularly as possible over the entire surface of the sensor. This is not easy to do at very short focal lengths, but modern lens designs do a very good job, compared to more traditional designs.

Since both the cosine fourth and the cosine-cosine third phenomena are angular in nature, sensor (film) size is critical. It is much easier to design a lens having minimal deviance from the perpendicular for a 1.6× (APS-C) sensor than it is for a 1.0× (full-frame) sensor. This is one of the reasons why APS-C (or smaller) sensors are so popular amongst DSLR manufacturers. [The cost of large sensors is, of course, the prime consideration. But cost does not stand alone.]

Another problem exists in the design of zoom lenses. It is much harder to design a zoom lens with substantial image perpendicularity at all focal lengths, or even all short focal lengths within the zoom range, than it is to design for substantial image perpendicularity for the single predetermined focal length of a prime lens. In a nutshell, a UWA modern prime lens of a given focal length is far less likely to suffer from cosine fourth or cosine-cosine third light drop off than is a modern UWA zoom lens set to the same focal length.

Now, vignetting does indeed exist, separately and independently from the cosine fourth and cosine-cosine third phenomena. Vignetting exists whenever anything intervenes between the subject and the image on the film or sensor. Few well-designed lenses are auto-vignetting. (If they were, they wouldn't be very well designed.)

Many very short focal length lenses, however, are intollerant of any form of obstruction. Placing even a single filter, even a slim filter, on such a lens may well produce vignetting. Sticking on a fat, CPL filter is almost guaranteed to do so.

Some zoom lenses have hoods that produce vignetting at the shortest focal lengths. Removing the hood when using these focal lengths typically solves the problem.

A difference between vignetting and light drop off is apparent to the trained eye. Vignetting is a sudden effect, even when severely blurred. Light drop of from the cosine fourth and cosine-cosine third effects are much more gradual in nature, and can be seen to extend inwards into the image in a controlled manner.

A careful selection and use of lenses and their accessories can greatly reduce the humiliation of vignetting. It won't do much for the embarassment of psoriasis, however, so wear long sleeves.

[Tomi Hawk]

Ahh yes, Simonius has put into words what I've tried to say for months now ...
Bravo .. golf clap .. cheers .. well stated, the crowd goes wild ..

The vignette has been a staple of almost every image I've ever made.
Long live the vignette .. Thanks for the very creative writing Simonius!

[I Simonius]

I often use vignette and oil on my dinner salads.

have you tried Oil on your lenses?- it gives smoother bokeh!;)

Is that basalmic vignette?

:rolleyes:
;)
:p

[I Simonius]

Ahh yes, Simonius has put into words what I've tried to say for months now ...
Bravo .. golf clap .. cheers .. well stated, the crowd goes wild ..

The vignette has been a staple of almost every image I've ever made.
Long live the vignette .. Thanks for the very creative writing Simonius!

At last someone who appreciates me!.. bow.. bow..:D

[I Simonius]

I tend to darken the edges on purpose. It tends to keep the eye of the viewer where you want it in the image. but then, I shoot for fine art and not commerially. However, I don't recall having any such problems with my lens collection.

excellent another vote to re-elect the vignette!

On a serious note, <snip>Since both the cosine fourth and the cosine-cosine third phenomena are angular in nature, sensor (film) size is critical. It is much easier to design a lens having minimal deviance from the perpendicular for a 1.6× (APS-C) sensor than it is for a 1.0× (full-frame) sensor. <snip> It is much harder to design a zoom lens with substantial image perpendicularity at all focal lengths, or even all short focal lengths within the zoom range, than it is to design for substantial image perpendicularity for the single predetermined focal length of a prime lens. In a nutshell, a UWA modern prime lens of a given focal length is far less likely to suffer from cosine fourth or cosine-cosine third light drop off than is a modern UWA zoom lens set to the same focal length.

quite:rolleyes:

A careful selection and use of lenses and their accessories can greatly reduce the humiliation of vignetting. It won't do much for the embarassment of psoriasis, however, so wear long sleeves.

perhaps .. but the point initially being expressed was not that it was humiliating to be caught in possession or the enactment of a vignette (either in public or in private) but that the anthropomorphised vignette itself was the enitity suffering the humiliation;):p:p:p

As to psoriasis, try not rubbing them so much, or it could be the glasses;):lol:
(Geddit, geddit? :D)