What is the best way to become a "Freelance" Photo

[JABACo]

All the photography that I've done has been the local little league baseball, football, basketball and soccer. I would like to expand my horizons.

How/What is the best way to become a "freelance" photog and possibly get press passes to certain events? And of course, what is the protocol of obtaining a press pass.

Thanks for any help

Bradley

[PhotosGuy]

"Press Pass": Do a search for "credentials". No one calls them passes anymore.
Search for free-lance, freelance, too. It's been covered several times.

Then come back & tell us where you live, what equipment you're using, what experience you have, show us some pics so we can see how you're doing, etc & maybe we can help you out. :wink:

[IndyJeff]

Let me ask you this, did you make any money doing the little league stuff?

Well if you did you probably made more than you will as a freelancer doing major sports stuff. Unless you know somebody, or get an extremely lucky break getting an assignment will be very difficult, if not impossible. I am not saying it can't be done but, there are too many people out there shooting for a credential in return for the use of images that finding a paying client is very, very, hard.
The market is very competitive and for every guy on the sideline or along the fence there are 100 who want to be there and will do it just for the thrill of being there.
If you have shot Little League, try the local high school, maybe move up to a small college in your area. Build a portfolio to be able to show an SID at a division 1 college. The jump from LL to the Pro's is a big leap and one that very few are able to attempt, let alone even succed at.

[JABACo]

Let me ask you this, did you make any money doing the little league stuff?

Well if you did you probably made more than you will as a freelancer doing major sports stuff. Unless you know somebody, or get an extremely lucky break getting an assignment will be very difficult, if not impossible. I am not saying it can't be done but, there are too many people out there shooting for a credential in return for the use of images that finding a paying client is very, very, hard.
The market is very competitive and for every guy on the sideline or along the fence there are 100 who want to be there and will do it just for the thrill of being there.
If you have shot Little League, try the local high school, maybe move up to a small college in your area. Build a portfolio to be able to show an SID at a division 1 college. The jump from LL to the Pro's is a big leap and one that very few are able to attempt, let alone even succed at.

IndyJeff,

I've been shooting now for almost 5 years and the last three fairly serious. I've made about $40k over the last three years part-time.

From mid April until now, I've grossed right around $10k part time. However, what I do is sort of backdoor. I get the playing schedule for all the teams. I shoot each team on two different occasions. Then I get a parent from each team to help me separate and regroup the pictures of all the players. Then I pick out a solid action shot of each player, enlarge it to 13x19 and glue it to a 1/8" foam board and sell it for $30.00. While doing this, I've uploaded all the photos to dotphoto.com and give the parents the my website so that they can purchase smaller pics. Not a real clean way of doing business but it works here. I've been told I'm too cheap with my enlargements.

I want to try the "freelance gig" to see if I can make a living at it. Presently I'm a tennis instructor and coach at a local high school. Photography was just a hobby until the money started flowing.

Lastly, the parents love my work. For all I know it could be crap in the eyes of a true pro. But, I think the look good, and the parents who purchase my product think I'm great. But, what do they know? They're buying pictures of their children. Of course they're good.

[JABACo]

"Press Pass": Do a search for "credentials". No one calls them passes anymore.
Search for free-lance, freelance, too. It's been covered several times.

Then come back & tell us where you live, what equipment you're using, what experience you have, show us some pics so we can see how you're doing, etc & maybe we can help you out. :wink:

PhotosGuy,

I'm about to the search on "credentials". Thanks for that piece of advice.

I live in Monroe, Louisiana. The parish (other states call it a county) in which I live has population of about 150,000 or so.

I guess this will answer your equipment question.

Equipment
10D w/BG-ED3 Grip
420ex flash
Canon 85mm f/1.8
Canon 75-300mm f/4.0
Sigma 70-200mm f/2.8
Canon 28-80mm f/3.5
Sigma 2x TC
Mono & Tripod
Flashcards 2 512's and 1 1gig
And buch of other stuff

As for my portfolio, www.jabaco.net. I put all shots taken on dotphoto.com. I even put the blatently bad ones there as well. Someone once told me to do this because, "As bad as the shot maybe, out focus, camera shake, etc., it may be the only picture of a child at that time a parent could buy".

Err, does this info help you help me help my wife stop nagging me.

Thanks for anything

Bradley

[PhotosGuy]

Monroe, Louisiana - Been there! I did a lot of work for a Natural gas co (ANR) 30 years ago & went to the drilling rigs many times.

So you’ve got an excellent population base within 50 miles with little chance of saturating the market.
Someone once said, “Figure out what you’re doing right & do more of it!”, and if you’re making $10K a year part time, it looks like you have a great start. Here’s a few ideas:

Your equipment list looks good. I’d get at least another Gig of memory so you can shoot more of each event once, which will allow you to cover twice as many if you don’t have to go back. Yeah, I know, you won’t get the kids that don’t play that game. Tough rocks! Will you be a public service, or will you be there to make money?
Get another body & have your wife/kids (unpaid help) shoot from the other end of the field = twice as many more pics. ‘So what’ if you have to throw half of them away?

Your site seems to be down temporarily. I get "No account information was found for domain[jabaco.net" & I'll try it later.
Does your site only sell pics, or does it also market coffee mugs, t-shirts, etc? If not, then get another site that does = more $s for the same amount of work.

Clone yourself. More work = possibility of burnout. Do you love mounting print after print after print? Mounting all those prints would get me to burnout in a big hurry, so find someone to do it for you. Kids, retirees, housewives, etc.
“glue it to a 1/8" foam board” is a messy process. We used to use a dry mount process where you put a sheet of adhesive between the print & the mount board & place it into a heated press. Retirees, housewives, etc wouldn’t mind doing that sort of work.
Raise the cost of the prints $5 to cover the cost of the piecework rate you pay.
Try this for one year: Raise the total cost of the prints to $50 & see if you will make more money per print, or if you’re just making the same amount for less prints, or less overall. Modify your prices accordingly.

If you’re in a ‘have to do it’ situation regarding the racing pics, (I know! I used to do it, too. And loved it), then try the local dirt tracks. Nobody covers them & they’ll be a great untapped market. Their cars are the equivalent of their children (can’t take a bad pic of them), plus, they have already demonstrated that they have money to burn. Maybe take a look at my car pics link below, for other ideas.
Do you need a ‘stand-out’ business card? Here’s an idea if you have access to Pshop. You can print them at the local drugstore (Walgreens is excellent they run specials for 50 @ $10 = 150 cards). Also, you can have a version for cars, kids, etc., & you can change them in a minute if you want to target another market.

http://img72.photobucket.com/albums/v218/PhotosGuy/Forum%20Junk/39-Lincoln-Bus-Card_WEB_26.jpg


Last, but not least, don’t give up your day job if it covers your butt! Pays the families insurance, house payment, etc. You’re trying to make the transition to photography = work, so make tennis = fun!

[PhotosGuy]

Afterthought re: “Yeah, I know, you won’t get the kids that don’t play that game.”
A local photographer has all the teams from an area come to a school for team & individual pics. Places the kids (aged about 5 to 12) in the shade of a tree & uses fill flash – trees, etc in the background. He hires local free lancers to help out at about $150 per day each. It’s assembly line work, one pic per kid (2 if you must), but he only works a half dozen days a year at it.

[JABACo]

Monroe, Louisiana - Been there! I did a lot of work for a Natural gas co (ANR) 30 years ago & went to the drilling rigs many times.

The natural gas is still here. I'm guessing on where the rigs you worked on is now a affluent neighborhood.

So you’ve got an excellent population base within 50 miles with little chance of saturating the market.

There are a few that hit the little league market as I do but they do not do the enlarged photo's. They only sell the 4x6's. I looked for a niche in the market outside of the norm. Plus, I only deal with 20 or 30 photos vs. hundreds and I don't have to set up a booth or table.

I’d get at least another Gig of memory. Yeah, I know, you won’t get the kids that don’t play that game. Tough rocks!

Will get the additional gig today. However, I've been looking to get an Image Tank or something along that line. I see you live in MIchigan, well, down here is baseball country. If you don't at least get little Johnny picking his nose on the bench, the parents will try and hang you. But I do fully understand what you're saying.

Will you be a public service, or will you be there to make money?

Initially, it was for fun (taking shots of my tennis students in their tennis matches), then came the $$$$, and now for my ego. I know, I know, a big ego will not pay the bills but I just thought I'd give it a whirl and see.
I've built a good strong reputation for doing good work, so they say.

Get another body & have your wife/kids (unpaid help) shoot from the other end of the field = twice as many more pics.

Wife hates the business but loves the extra $$$$. I have a 16 year old. If and when I CAN get to mow the yard, he wants to compensated like a New York attorney.

Your site seems to be down temporarily. I get "No account information was found for domain[jabaco.net" & I'll try it later.
Does your site only sell pics, or does it also market coffee mugs, t-shirts, etc? If not, then get another site that does = more $s for the same amount of work.

Some people have mentioned from time to time that they can't access the link. My site is only one page with link at the bottom to access my albums on dotphoto.com

More work = possibility of burnout. a messy process. Raise the cost of the prints $5 to cover the cost of the piecework rate you pay.

Burnout!!!! I've done over 300 of these photo's since April. Messy!!! Sort of. The foamboard is 40x32. I precut 5 sheets of the board, print the photo, apply photo stick glue two to three inches around the edges, lay it on the precut board, roll out the bubbles with a common bread roller and then cut off the edges. Very time consuming.


If you’re in a ‘have to do it’ situation regarding the racing pics, (I know! I used to do it, too. And loved it), then try the local dirt tracks. Nobody covers them & they’ll be a great untapped market. Their cars are the equivalent of their children (can’t take a bad pic of them), plus, they have already demonstrated that they have money to burn.

You're correct. No one covers those events. I've been asked but haven't had the time.

You’re trying to make the transition to photography = work, so make tennis = fun!

Good call. But it's all fun.

Thanks for your insight. You've been very helpful.

Bradley

[PhotosGuy]

I'm guessing on where the rigs you worked on is now a affluent neighborhood.

Should be - those guys really worked for their money! I was just a "dilettante, Yankee picture guy"! You can substitute any number of colorful, local expressions for "dilettante”! :lol:

Poor copies of 2 slides:

http://img72.photobucket.com/albums/v218/PhotosGuy/Forum%20Junk/Drilling_Riggers.jpg

http://img72.photobucket.com/albums/v218/PhotosGuy/Forum%20Junk/Drilling_Rig_Swamp.jpg

[nemesis099]

I was looking to do something like this in my area.

So what you are doing is just going to local baseball games and taking pictures for the parents to buy correct?

I'm not looking to go pro I'm just looking for some way to help pay off my equipment and take more photos.

I was just wondering if you could answer a few of my questions?

If you sell a print through dotphoto do you make any money off of it?
How do you sell the blown up pictures? Do you take orders for them?
When taking pictures at a game do you need permission to take them and sell them?

I'm just looking into different ways of doing this same thing in MD. I don't think anyone else is doing it and I think having large pictures of your child in sports would be in high demand.

If you have any other thoughts or comments I would greatly appreciate them.

Newell

[JABACo]

I was looking to do something like this in my area.

So what you are doing is just going to local baseball games and taking pictures for the parents to buy correct?

I'm not looking to go pro I'm just looking for some way to help pay off my equipment and take more photos.

I was just wondering if you could answer a few of my questions?

If you sell a print through dotphoto do you make any money off of it?
How do you sell the blown up pictures? Do you take orders for them?
When taking pictures at a game do you need permission to take them and sell them?

I'm just looking into different ways of doing this same thing in MD. I don't think anyone else is doing it and I think having large pictures of your child in sports would be in high demand.

If you have any other thoughts or comments I would greatly appreciate them.

Newell

Newell,

I got into this by just taking pictures of my tennis students to show them what they were doing correctly and not. Then the parents wanted them and I did give them the pictures. Then someone mentioned I should begin taking shots at tournaments and sell them. My son plays football and baseball, go figure no tennis, and at one of his baseball tournaments there were a couple of people selling the pictures that were taken the prior day. People were buying them like crazy.

I saw the possibiilties, but wanted to take a different angle. At that time I already had a HP 1120c wide format printer. I took a few shots and enlarge them with that printer. It did OK considering I was only using a 3 megapixel camera.

Like you here, I began to study and obtain anyones advice as to equipment and such. I borrowed from my savings and bought equipment that I really shouldn't have. Like the 10D. I figured at worst I'd have a solid camera for years to come. Through trial and error and over 25,000 shots later, I now feel really comfortable behind the camera.

The items I started with:

10D w/70-200mm f/2.8l lens (Sigma)
2X TC (Sigma)
BG-ED3 Battery Grip
85mm f/1.8l lens (Canon)
75-300mm f/4.0 lens (Canon)
28-80mm f/3.5 lens
420EX Flash (Canon)
Roughly 2gb of Compact Flash Cards
Epson Stylus Photo 2200 printer

First I went to a few local little league baseball games and took a few shots. Then I went back with a few action shots I thought were good and used them as samples. The results weren't that good. People just looked at them and went, "Oh, those are good". No orders then. Problems was it wasn't their child.

But, someone on the board of directors saw them and asked me if I would shoot an All-Star tournament that was coming up. Of course I said yes but was clueless as to what to or how to do it.

I didn't have the website just yet. So, I shot the pictures, loaded them on my laptop and after each game let the parents choose which photo they wanted enlarged. NEVER AGAIN!!!!!!!!! That was a headache, but I made enough to pay for my 10D in 5 days of work. I only charged $25.00 for the enlarge photo and gave them all of their child pictures of a CD. Another bad move. But you live and learn.

The next tournament, still no website, but this time I selected the shot to enlarge and charge an extra $10.00 for the CD. Made enough on that tournament to pay for a few lenses.

Then I came back to this forum and began asking more questions, such as you are now. I learned of all the online photo shops and I chose dotphoto.com because they do not charge me any harddrive space.

Now when I go to any ballgame and shoot and come back to their next game, having already obtained their schedule, with 7 or 8 13x19's in tow. Now parents see their offsprings in action. Not all buy the enlargement but 90% do. They ask for smaller shots and I give them my card and lead them to my feeble web page which will link them to my photo albums on dotphoto.com. When they buy online, dotphoto.com does all the rest from taking credit cards, to processing the photos and to shipping.
After all is done I make between 70-75% of the gross. They e-deposit my commission after a short waiting period. This is due to returns and such.

Now, it is safe to get permission from the league to do what I'm doing. I'm from a relatively small area and everyone knows me.

I do take orders on occasion. When I pick a photo to enlarge that I like, the parents may not. I then give them the opportunity to go online and choose one. However, once I pull out 7 or 8 enlargements of the same team, the parents and especially moms, go crazy. So unless they can't afford the picture, they usually all buy what you have on hand. AND then buy more on line.

Last thing. I also put the enlarge photo on a 1/8" foam board for backing. The reason is it makes it look better because it's sturdier. It will work with a 16x20 frame or stand in the bookshelf. I strongly advise everyone to put the photo behind glass in a frame.

I've ramble a bit but that in a nut shell is how I did it. The bulk of my money made, 85% has come from the enlarged shots. My commission from dotphoto I am saving to buy the Canon 1D Mark II and better glass.

Hope this helps

Bradely

[nemesis099]

JABACo thanks that is a huge help. I know now what I need to do to get started. Also Finding a place to sell prints was a big deal for me. I guess I'll start by calling the rec league here and seeing If I can get a schedule.

Thanks again!!

Newell

Edit: Forgot to ask do you normally shoot in RAW or in JPEG? Just curious

[JABACo]

JABACo thanks that is a huge help. I know now what I need to do to get started. Also Finding a place to sell prints was a big deal for me. I guess I'll start by calling the rec league here and seeing If I can get a schedule.

Thanks again!!

Newell

Edit: Forgot to ask do you normally shoot in RAW or in JPEG? Just curious

First, I shot jpeg. Like mentioned before, I bought equipment that was more experienced than me. Then I began to shoot raw. RAW I found was much better for a few shots, but grew impatient with the process. I conceded to the fact I must learn my gear to make changes on the fly. So I went back to, in the 10D, Large JPEG. I'll take 150 shots during one little league game alone. I figure 25% will be totally unusable due to out of focus. The rest are good enough for uploading and hopefully I take 60-75% great shots that have the potential to enlarge, and those are the shots I choose from. Plus I can over twice as many shots on compact flash cards with jpeg vs. raw.

There are those on this forum that only shoot in raw. It can be a life savior in your shooting less than 100 shots at a time. I'll shoot 300+ with two little league games a night.

Good luck

Bradley

[jschao]

thank you

[JABACo]

thank you
The only cost I've incurred has been when someone buys your shots. Then they retain the cost of printing and 15%. I usually get 70-75$ of gross. Other than that, there hasn't been any charges for anything.

Go to my site, www.jabaco.net, and click on the link at the bottom. It will take you to my albums I have with them. I have over 11 pages and about 8-9000 pictures.

[jschao]

thank you
The only cost I've incurred has been when someone buys your shots. Then they retain the cost of printing and 15%. I usually get 70-75$ of gross. Other than that, there hasn't been any charges for anything.

Go to my site, www.jabaco.net, and click on the link at the bottom. It will take you to my albums I have with them. I have over 11 pages and about 8-9000 pictures.


So, you bought the jabaco.net and linked it to dotphoto?? how do you upload them to that site?

[JABACo]

thank you
The only cost I've incurred has been when someone buys your shots. Then they retain the cost of printing and 15%. I usually get 70-75$ of gross. Other than that, there hasn't been any charges for anything.

Go to my site, www.jabaco.net, and click on the link at the bottom. It will take you to my albums I have with them. I have over 11 pages and about 8-9000 pictures.


So, you bought the jabaco.net and linked it to dotphoto?? how do you upload them to that site?

Click on this link to learn more about how to become a member of dotphoto.com. Once you're approved or become a member, you then download their software so that you can up load your shots.

http://www.dotphotopro.com/pro/HowItWorks.asp#How

JABACo.net is just my site, or page if you will. It's easier to give people my web site than having them go to dotphoto and do a search.

Bradley

[BobbyC]

Someone once told me to do this because, "As bad as the shot maybe, out focus, camera shake, etc., it may be the only picture of a child at that time a parent could buy".

If I could offer any advice at all it would be to remove this line of thinking from your business. Although you may sell one or two of these, if you want to be taken seriously enough to get press credentials, I would not recommend putting out anything but your best work. I'm not saying you are wrong or critisizing you, I'm just offering my advice.

There is not enough money in the world to make me sell or even give away a bad shot. I do know some other guys that have the same attitude, they do some nice work but will sell anything they take and because of those bad ones they sell, they are known as the guys that sell crappy work. Just something to think about.

[JABACo]

Someone once told me to do this because, "As bad as the shot maybe, out focus, camera shake, etc., it may be the only picture of a child at that time a parent could buy".

If I could offer any advice at all it would be to remove this line of thinking from your business. Although you may sell one or two of these, if you want to be taken seriously enough to get press credentials, I would not recommend putting out anything but your best work. I'm not saying you are wrong or critisizing you, I'm just offering my advice.

There is not enough money in the world to make me sell or even give away a bad shot. I do know some other guys that have the same attitude, they do some nice work but will sell anything they take and because of those bad ones they sell, they are known as the guys that sell crappy work. Just something to think about.

BobbyC,

I fully understand and respect what you're saying here. It's sort of a catch 22, trying to do your best and trying to appease everyone. I only do this because I know how it is to be a parent and not have some memory of an event that my child was involved. From a true photographers point you are dead on. The look in the parents eyes when they tell me I got a picture of everyone's but theirs.

I guess it's knowing the definition difference between sympathy and empathy.

Your point and advice is well taken

Bradley

[blackviolet]

whenever i bring prints for parents to see, i always bring quality shots and leave the crap ones at home. sure, parents want to see their kids playing, but they don't typically care much for a blurry or badly taken shot. and that will take away from your own credibility... 'oh where did you get that picture of your kids?' 'joe bloggs photo' 'oh, they're not very good...

but i guess that's just my feeling. i'm not out ot make a killing, just provide parents with some photos to show their family and friends and to keep for posterity, etc.

i recently started to put some photos up on my website as a means of putting up ones that i havent printed out, but that parents (and remote family members) could order from. i just whacked it together in about 10 minutes as i'm just trying to decide what i'm going to do.


http://www.blackviolet.com/rugby/4683_small.JPG

you can see others from the index (http://www.blackviolet.com/rugby)

ah, and yes i know the main page sucks :oops: :oops: - this site wasn't for photos originally, but i'm going to redesign it when i have a few hours to spare...

[IndyJeff]

IndyJeff,

I've been shooting now for almost 5 years and the last three fairly serious. I've made about $40k over the last three years part-time.

From mid April until now, I've grossed right around $10k part time. However, what I do is sort of backdoor. I get the playing schedule for all the teams. I shoot each team on two different occasions.

Bradley, why would you want to leave a honey hole like that? Expand your coverage to football and basketball and you will be shooting damn near year round.
If you want to give a shot at motorsports, try the local tracks. Maybe someone will take the next step and move up a level or two and ask you to be their official photographer. The motorsports industry is very full and most guys you see with a camera at the tracks are stringers. They only get paid for the shots that are used. I have spent weekends, standing in a turn waiting for a crash to happen that never comes. My pay check....$0.00
Last year I was the only guy at Kentucky Speedway to have the Tom Wood crash in turn 3 of the Infinity Pro Series race. After the race I had a lot of people look at it in the media center and comment on what a great shot it was. Guess how much I was paid for that shot? $0.00. One guy said if that would have been an IRL driver I would have had a bidding war in the media center, the bigger the driver name the higher the price tag would have been. That 3 day weekend cost me right at $300 to go there, that's the fun of shooting on spec. Right now it is in consideration for a special upcoming issue of ESPN Magazine. I might make something afterall.
I really am not trying to discourage you from trying motorsports but, your making more money doing the baseball thing now than you would probably make covering a race. There are people who make money from day rates and they vary from event to event and organization to organization. Take the Indy 500 for example, they issue credentials to 750 photograhers. Out of that many probably 625-650 are stringers, the rest are staff photographers for newspapers, news agencies and corporate clients.
You have racing magazines who have guys shooting for them for free just for the credential. How can you compete with that? You can't.
Once you shoot motorsports, at least the major series, the rules change for selling pictures too. No sales to the general public, editorial use only. Get caught selling pictures on eBay, lose your credentials for that series and maybe face a lawsuit.

Be sure to check your pms too.

Jeff

[BobbyC]

Jeff makes some very good points. Try local racing series that allow you to sell to the racers, you'll do much better financially. Check out the websites of the series and find out who promotes (owns) them. They will usually want pictures in return for thier own use but will allow you to sell to the racers. I've got one series I'm doing now that had one of those "sell anything" guys, he was a very nice guy but got a bad rep for selling any blurry or poorly composed picture he shot. He complained to me about lack of sales when I met him. When the promoter approached me about working the races (after the other guy quit from lack of sales), I jumped on it (my family races in the series). I've worked very hard to present a professional and high quality product and after 2 races am doing quite well from it. I'm now getting some nice sales doing promotional work for some of the racers and am getting some good exposure for my portrait work as well.

Just make sure that if you provide pics to the promoter that it is agreed that they will only use for promotional purposes, give you full credit and will not pass any on to the racers, if you do good work, they will be happy to oblige. Oh yeah, get it in writing.

[JABACo]

IndyJeff,

I've been shooting now for almost 5 years and the last three fairly serious. I've made about $40k over the last three years part-time.

From mid April until now, I've grossed right around $10k part time. However, what I do is sort of backdoor. I get the playing schedule for all the teams. I shoot each team on two different occasions.

Bradley, why would you want to leave a honey hole like that? Expand your coverage to football and basketball and you will be shooting damn near year round.

IndyJeff,

Maybe I misled the forum. The $40k over the past three years has only been with baseball. I do shoot little league/pee wee football and basketball as well. Not quite as profitable as baseball but very worth my time. I'm guessing I will gross around $22-$25k from Sept '03 to August '04 part time.

The motor sport thing was something someone earlier in this string suggested. I will look into motorsports but only on the very local level.

In addition, I haven't touched gymnastics, soccer or, of all things since I'm a tennis coach, tennis. But that's because I'm coaching during that time. However, I'll start with the Junior tennis circuit once baseball has finished.

Thanks for the advice

Bradley

[JABACo]

.

Oh yeah, get it in writing.

Very good advice.

[blackviolet]

Maybe I misled the forum. The $40k over the past three years has only been with baseball. I do shoot little league/pee wee football and basketball as well. Not quite as profitable as baseball but very worth my time. I'm guessing I will gross around $22-$25k from Sept '03 to August '04 part time.

again i'm guessing that's lots more than freelancing for a paper or magazine.

i've been lucky in that i've sent some photos to a local paper - i didnt even want to be paid for them- simply to get the experience, and they sent me a cheque!!! but again this is simply a hobby (and a parental obligation...).

http://www.blackviolet.com/rugby