Metering Modes

[drisley]

Yesterday I "upgraded" my 300D to the latest hacked firmware. I LOVE it.

I was fooling around taking some shots, and I happened to notice that I get exactly the same recommended exposure when using M mode, AV mode, and even P mode.
From what I understand, M mode uses Center-Weighted Average, while AV and P mode use Evaluative.
I could have sworn previously I would get different results in M and AV modes. When I check Breezebrower, it properly says that M is using CWA, and AV is using Evaluative, but shouldnt I get getting different exposures? I know that exposure lock (which uses Partial Metering) will give different exposures.
I also understand that the focus point is given precedence in Evaluative Mode, but not CWA (right?) which always uses the center of the frame.

Let's say I have the top focus point active, and it's over a white wall, while the rest of the scene is black. Shouldnt I get a completely different exposure in M and AV modes?

Just thought I would ask.

[Laziferous]

You can't just choose which metering mode you want to use in the creative zones on the 300D? Man... I'd hate that. I'm so used to switching it all the time, that would drive me nuts!

Sorry I didn't have anything constructive to add :?

I would expect though, that if a scene had a constant luminousity throughout, it may be possible for all three modes to come up with the same exposure value. As you said though, you should get different values for scenes with high contrast. I would expect so anyway.

*shrugs*

[drisley]

No, you can't chose.
It's Evaluative on all modes except M which uses CWA.
If you select * for exposure lock, it uses Partial.
I dont find it much of a problem.

I just did some more tests, and everything behaved as it should. :)
I must have been doing something wrong before, or the scene itself was just weird.

[dtrayers]

Let's not start the "Center Weighted and Evaluative Reversed" thing again :lol: :lol: :lol:

Remember? I think it went to over 100 posts on dpreview.com forums...

http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?t=8601

BTW, one more and you'll be at 1000 posts!

[scottbergerphoto]

It's strikes me as odd that Canon made a DSLR, the 300D, that in some ways is very much like a P&S(not a dig, just an observation). In most 35mm cameras and the 10D and all 1 - series cameras, the metering mode is completely independent of the shooting mode. You choose M, Tv, Av, or P and then you choose Evaluative, CW, partial or spot. It makes it very hard for owners of one model to advise owners of another. I could understand that in a cross over camera you limit choices in P or Auto, but not in M, Tv or Av.
Just my 2c.
Scott

[AzzKicker]

It's strikes me as odd that Canon made a DSLR, the 300D, that in some ways is very much like a P&S(not a dig, just an observation). In most 35mm cameras and the 10D and all 1 - series cameras, the metering mode is completely independent of the shooting mode. You choose M, Tv, Av, or P and then you choose Evaluative, CW, partial or spot. It makes it very hard for owners of one model to advise owners of another. I could understand that in a cross over camera you limit choices in P or Auto, but not in M, Tv or Av.
Just my 2c.
Scott


I agree, I think that was a stupid move by Canon. I didnt find that out till after I bought the Rebel. I was a little pissed. I know I know I did research the camera, but that was one thing I overlooked. I just sort of assumed they would make it like all other SLR's.

[Belmondo]

(Belmondo dons his asbestos-lined flameproof long johns in preparation for what he knows is about to follow. Grimly resigned to his fate, he slowly begins to type....)

Dear fellow forum members (especially 300D/Rebel owners):

Wouldn’t it have been better to buy a 10D? I mean, why subject yourselves (and others) to all this moaning, groaning, and hand-wringing over what a terrible company Canon is for not making the Drebel functionally equivalent to the more expensive 10D?

I’m trying to think what might have happened to 10D sales if Canon actually had brought out the identical camera in a plastic body for $500 less and thrown in the 18-55 zoom lens for good measure. I don’t think they would have sold very many 10Ds after that.

The Rebel is a different camera, at a different price-point, intended for a different market.

We all have different levels of enthusiasm, experience, financial wherewithal, and technical prowess, but the one thing we all have in common is the obligation to thoroughly investigate a major purchase before whipping out the credit card. It is not unreasonable to want to improve the camera by whatever means are available. Nor is it reasonable to blame Canon for deficiencies in a camera that would have become evident after a reasonable due diligence by the buyer. If the omission of key features in the Rebel is sufficient to make you wish you hadn’t bought it, Canon is not to blame---you are for not having done your homework.

You have to look at the camera in the context of the market for which it was intended. That market is not the professional, and is probably not even the serious amateur. It is the vast majority of people who want the versatility of the SLR without the complication. Because you’ve chosen to make it complicated does not mean that Canon has misread its market.

Anyway, go ahead and fire back. I’m hiding behind the sofa and I expect I’ll be safe here.

Tom

[AzzKicker]

No need to fire back. You are right. Actually to this day I wish now I had purchases the 10D right away. In fact I was ready to sell my Rebel and just buy a 10D. But I'm going to try and wait now for the 10D replacement.

[Alexandre Gabriel]

We all have different levels of enthusiasm, experience, financial wherewithal, and technical prowess, but the one thing we all have in common is the obligation to thoroughly investigate a major purchase before whipping out the credit card.

I agree completely. 300D is a low-end DSLR, and we may say that 10D is semi-pro DSLR (if you ignore the 1.6 crop and remind the Elan line and 300V film bodies' markets).
If you are a rich enthusiast, buy a 10D and 5 "L" lenses. If you really don't want to spend $4000+ right now (10D + 17/40/4L + 70/200/2.8L + 550EX), buy the 300D, hack it (so you have SOME metering modes available, am I right?) and buy some Sigma and/or non-L lenses. You get what you pay for. :roll:

Personally, as an not-that-rich-Elan owner, I intend to buy a 300D and some more non-L lenses (including the AMAZING 50mm f/1.8) and 420EX, changing glasses and body as soon as I can.
Sorry if my English is not that good. Anyway, we can always try Portuguese (just kidding :wink: ).

[scottbergerphoto]

Belmondo,
I think this is not an issue of a camera having less features then a more expensive one. Canon purposely chose to give the 300D limitations. Look at most medium priced 35mm slr cameras. They have whatever metering modes are available on the camera, available for M, Av, Tv. For some reason on the 300D(which I don't own), Canon limited the choices.
Regards,
Scott

[Belmondo]

Look at most medium priced 35mm slr cameras. They have whatever metering modes are available on the camera, available for M, Av, Tv. For some reason on the 300D(which I don't own), Canon limited the choices.

Best guess?
I'd say it was to make the camera as 'idiot-proof' as possible. I'm sure that someone at Canon has figured out that certain metering modes work generally better than others in specific shooting modes.

I don't know if I'm right or not, but it would support my theory that Canon really intended this camera for the generally 'less-than-sophisticated' user.

[PacAce]

Let's not start the "Center Weighted and Evaluative Reversed" thing again :lol: :lol: :lol:

Remember? I think it went to over 100 posts on dpreview.com forums...

http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?t=8601

BTW, one more and you'll be at 1000 posts!

Yes, pleeeeease, let's not! :shock:

But getting back to the CW vs Eval metering modes being the same/different, it all depends on what you are shooting. In shots where the subject and the background have an average gray value, then both will usually come up with the same (or very close) values. Where you will find a big difference between the CW and the Eval recommended settings is when there's a big difference between the subject and the background, such as a very dark subject against a very white background.

[drisley]

Yes, I remember that thread from my G3 days.

Not being able to chose metering isnt a huge deal to me.
If I was using a film camera and couldnt get instant feedback, then I would be bothered.
Things like focus mode and FEC were what I missed, and now I have them back with the russian 300d firmware (I hate the word "hacked" when referring to that firmware).

BTW, dtrayers, thank for the reminder. I had been keeping an eye on my post# and then suddenly...WHAM, I'm over a thousand posts! Sure feels good though. I am so much wiser, but I think I've dumbed down the group a little with my rants. :)
Anyway, when how long does it usually take Pekka to send out the 100-400L IS once you've reached one thousand posts?

[Belmondo]

Anyway, when how long does it usually take Pekka to send out the 100-400L IS once you've reached one thousand posts?Sometimes he waits until you hit 2,000. Then, he sends you two of them. He's pretty unpredictable that way.

In my case, he's apparently waiting until I hit 3,000 posts. I expect he'll be sending me three of them. (Allthough I see myself slowing down. At my current rate, I'm not even sure I'll hit 3,000.)

[chris.bailey]

Anyway, when how long does it usually take Pekka to send out the 100-400L IS once you've reached one thousand posts?Sometimes he waits until you hit 2,000. Then, he sends you two of them. He's pretty unpredictable that way.

In my case, he's apparently waiting until I hit 3,000 posts. I expect he'll be sending me three of them. (Allthough I see myself slowing down. At my current rate, I'm not even sure I'll hit 3,000.)

Maybe he's just waiting for you to post a photo or two to show you would know how to use it :lol:

[Belmondo]

Maybe he's just waiting for you to post a photo or two to show you would know how to use it :lol:

Oh, that's cruel. :oops: :wink:

[Tom W]

Maybe he's just waiting for you to post a photo or two to show you would know how to use it :lol:

Oh, that's cruel. :oops: :wink:

I have mine. :twisted: 8)

[Belmondo]

I have mine. :twisted: 8)

:p

[Belmondo]

Besides that, you're not paying attention!

http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?t=35606&highlight=