gadget infinity radio slaves report (studio and hotshoe)

[tim]

Edit - see my post further down the page for an update. When I've used them a bit more i'll report back again.

I recently purchased some products from Gadget Infinity in Hong Kong (http://www.gadgetinfinity.com). These are the same units that are sold by a variety of sellers on ebay. I thought i'd report back my findings. I bought:
- 2x16 channel studio transmitter/receiver, plus an extra receiver
- 2x4 channel V2 hotshoe transmitter/receiver, plus an extra receiver

All tests were done at home, mainly using the "test" button on the transmitters. The little red light on the top of the transmitters reliably goes when the test button is pushed. To test if they actually triggered a flash the receivers were plugged into a 550EX or an Alien Bee AB800, depending on the trigger type. I checked the battery voltage in two of the transmitters and found it to be as marked on the battery.

Studio Units
- One studio receiver was DOA.
- The receivers are only triggered when the transmitters are within 1.5m of the receivers. At 2 meters I got about 1 successful flash in 10, beyond that nothing. I tried 8 different channels before I gave up.

Hotshoe Units
- One hotshoe receiver is so tight I thought I was going to break off my 550EX foot trying to get it off. One receiver doesn't work reliably over one meter. I'm not sure if these are the same units or not (I lost track beacuse they all look the same).
- My first set of tests was in my hallway. One transmitter worked 9 times out of 10 within 2 meters. Above this it didn't do anything.
- The other transmitter worked 9 times out of ten up to about 4 meters. Over 2 meters it would only reliably trigger one of the receivers. Above 4 meters nothing worked.
- My second set of tests was in my lounge, which has a normal TV, a stereo, and a DVD player, all switched off. The short version of these tests is nothing worked above 2 meters, and below that they were unreliable.

Conclusion
None of the units work reliably. Update - After I modifier them they work a lot better. See my post further down the page.

Next Steps
I'm going to return the lot of them and look into something reliable, in the mean time i'm borrowing some pocket wizards.

Service
20 minutes after I reported the problem Gadget Infinity said they'd be happy to test and either replace or refund them for me - my choice. I asked their customer service a few questions before purchase, and I have to say their customer service is excellent.

Update - they did replace the faulty units, I haven't bothered to test them yet though.

[FlashZebra]

Tim,

Thank you for this nice report.

I have several sets of some very early inexpensive radio slaves (single channel) that work well, and I am generally pleased with them (mine have the 1/4 inch phone plug, but I use them both in the studio and on hotshoe based flash units I personally think the inexpensive radio slave with the 1/4 inch phone plug is the "best chance" approach for most, even for hotshoe based flash units, not the V2 units). I purchased 35 sets of these for my camera club, and 20% were defective out of the box, this is a tremendous out of box defect rate.

But, you have handled this exactly like everyone should.


Buy a product
Take it out of the box and try it.
If it does not function properly in the intended setting, immediately send it back.

I see post after post on Strobist, and a few here, where humans get these things and in many cases they work fine.

But, in many cases they do not work fine, but the surprising thing is that if they do not work, a lot fiddle with them for weeks, with most never getting a product that works properly.

I am not sure why many cut this item so much slack, when with anything else if it would not work out of the box they would immediately return it.

I once had a POTN forum member cite the high percentage of positive feedback for Gadget Infinity as a definitive indicator that these products were reliable.

Your post illustrates the mechanism of how you can sell a very unreliable product, but still have a very positive Ebay rating. Treating the customer in an accommodating manner when they are delivered an unreliable product.

I have inexpensive radio slaves and use them often, and I am generally pleased with the function, but I certainly do not think they are reliable. That very reliable sync cord ready to do backup in my camera bag, is the only reason I ever use these things, I know that if they bomb, that cord will take up the slack.

I guess I can understand putting the small amount of cash that these things cost as sort of a fun functional gamble (the possibility of a lot of function for not very much cash), the part that I do not get is that if the gamble goes sour, the unwillingness to admit that sour taste.

I spent a significant part of my professional career as a Reliability Engineer, and to paraphrase US Supreme Court Justice Potter Stewart's take on pornography, I know reliability when I see it.

Again, thank you for a measured and organized post on this subject.

Enjoy! Lon

[tim]

I have an updated. After doing a bit of reading, and some pointers on DWF, i've discovered the transmitters are either missing antennas, or the antennas are just useless. Using the instructions from this page (http://www.flickr.com/groups/strobist/discuss/72157594463784267/) I first added a 2 inch antenna, which helped a lot but the range still wasn't great. When I moved to a 6 inch antenna sticking up the range is much better. With both the V2 hotshoe units and the V1 16 channel studio units I get 100% firing rate at approx 25 meters. When I plugged in that wire the range extended to 30 meters for the studio unit and 40 meters for the V2 hotshoe unit, still with at least 95% firing rate - i'm told it's part of the ground plane. The transmitters don't look great but i'll try to improve the appearance another day. I got some strange looks as I was standing in the middle of the street outside my house, wearing slippers, pushing buttons on 4 different remotes!

Just FYI here's the response from Gadget Infinity when I asked if they're missing an antenna:


Judging from the pictures, there is no missing part in the hardware. The antenna in the transmitter is the circle quartz while in receiver it is the PCB board that placed 90 degree to the mainboard (you just see its side). We therefore recommend you to test it once more under different conditions.


Here's a couple of (bad) pics

http://mrwild.co.nz/unprotected/dwf/trans-many.jpg

http://mrwild.co.nz/unprotected/dwf/trans-one.jpg

[bieber]

Heh. I sort of like their on-top-of-camera profile over that of my Pocket Wizards, but I guess that goes out the window when you attach a huge piece of wire to the top...

[Titus213]

Have we discovered a use for the millions of abandoned wire coat hangers?

[tim]

I'll see if I can find a small black rubber antenna to stick on top, like the pocket wizards one :)

[farrukh]

After reading this report, I tested my v2 for working range (4 channel) last night. And it triggered perfectly from a very long distance (as far as I could move away and see the flash) even through multiple walls. I'm still using the test battery came with the package. And there is no antenna hole or any provided with it.

[razyl]

Good post Tim, great to see someone testing these things out and letting everyone else know. I'm VERY interested in getting something better than the infrared of my 580EX acting as a master to a 430EX.... just doesnt seem to cut it for all situations and the line-of-sight restriction is difficult to work with sometimes.

There's no doubt in getting a cheap option (cf pocket wizards etc) you might sacrifice some reliability, but I still wonder just how much?!

Here's a very good test that says the 16 channel units are well worth a bit of extra $:
http://wavelength.org.nz/equipment/triggertest

[tim]

Reliability isn't great, they don't fire when you're within a meter of the receiver, which I forgot during a wedding and went back to on-camera flash.

[GordonSBuck]

I bought a transmitter and four receivers of the "V2" design. All work very well together and with Canon 580EX, Canon 420EX, Canon 380EX, Nikon SB24 and an old Vivitar 2600.

Now, what I mean by working well is that the flash fires as expected probably more than 90% of the time -- perhaps even 95% of the time. There is the occasional unexpected flash as well.

The Canon flashes will hibernate after a while and that feature has to be turned off. I don't know how to turn off that feature for the 380EX so I've had to stop using it.

Outdoors, I've fired a few shots at about 100 feet with a clear line of sight to the receiver. Indoors, the range is fine but some attention must be paid to obstructions, walls, etc. Even so, sometimes the reciever seems to work OK when partially hidden. I've not modified my units in any way but probably will tinker with them a bit.

These cheap wireless units have been a tremendous learning aid for me and I'm glad I got them.

Gordon
http://hornerbuck.com

[Curtis N]

Tim, thanks for the effort.
And it's nice to see you posting in the flash forum. Your advice is always practical and down-to-earth (or do you say "up-to-earth" in the southern hemisphere?).

I have two comments to add here:
1) Some people have reported that replacing the batteries in these units improves their performance dramatically, even when the supplied batteries indicate sufficient voltage.
2) Hitting the test button won't show whether or not they are syncing properly. I have sometimes seen these things fire too late at 1/30 shutter speed, other times they work fine at 1/250.

[razyl]

I've purchased the 16 channel versions from Gadget Infinity....will post as soon as I've tested them

Anyone know where I can get a hot shoe adaptor Canon mount? Looked all over ebay and the net and cant find any

[tdodd]

I've got the 4 channel V2 trigger and two receivers for my 580EX and some old Pentax flashgun, which is fine as a manual slave. Max reliable range is probably about 15'-20' with no obstructions. Unfortunately one of the receivers seems to trigger my 580EX at random whenever it feels like it. If I swap the receivers between the flashguns then I lose the random triggering phenomenon so the set is at least useable - just.

[mcmadkat]

Using the V2 set with a pair of 430EZs I can report no problems. They have fired 100% of the time. Range is up to 35m in the open, and about 10m indoors.

I have to say that it is strange that you had so many problems. There is always the possibility that the frequency that they operate on had some other traffic in your area which was causing interference.

ed: Mine fire with no minimum distance, i.e. sitting next to each other they are fine. Maybe you got a set of V1 electronics in V2 cases?

I hope you manage to get a working set.

Sam

[tdodd]

Mine came from http://search.stores.ebay.com/hkgreatdeals_v2_W0QQfciZQ2d1QQfclZ3QQfsnZhkgreatde alsQQfsooZ1QQfsopZ1QQsaselZ436335943QQsofpZ0. I emailed them about the random triggers, referring them to the article mentioned in post #8 above, and they are sending me a replacement receiver unit. I don't expect the range to improve but with luck the ghost in the machine will vanish. At least they haven't asked for the old unit back so I don't have the aggravation and expense of returning the faulty receiver.

[Tish]

I have two sets of v2 transmitters & receivers that have given me none of the issues listed either here or on the Strobist group. Knock on wood, so far I'm one of the lucky ones. :)

Do I still want Pocket Wizards? Yes--for their supposed 100% reliability. But for now, these work surprisingly reliably for me. All my issues have been with the recycle times on the 550EX flashes (using 2700 mAH PowerEx batts, that's not the issue)....so much so that I'm in the market for a couple of CP-E2 or 3's to cut that time right down.

[tdodd]

Mine came from http://search.stores.ebay.com/hkgreatdeals_v2_W0QQfciZQ2d1QQfclZ3QQfsnZhkgreatde alsQQfsooZ1QQfsopZ1QQsaselZ436335943QQsofpZ0. I emailed them about the random triggers, referring them to the article mentioned in post #8 above, and they are sending me a replacement receiver unit. I don't expect the range to improve but with luck the ghost in the machine will vanish. At least they haven't asked for the old unit back so I don't have the aggravation and expense of returning the faulty receiver.
Two weeks after posting, and after almost giving up hope, my replacement receiver finally arrived. This one does not seem to exhibit the random triggering so that's a plus point. Sadly the range on this one is only about 5m, unobstructed, indoors. It's probably enough for my needs though.

[tim]

Two weeks after posting, and after almost giving up hope, my replacement receiver finally arrived. This one does not seem to exhibit the random triggering so that's a plus point. Sadly the range on this one is only about 5m, unobstructed, indoors. It's probably enough for my needs though.

Add an aerial to the transmitter like I did.

[strmrdr]

Here are the Antennas that should help.
There are many sources for them but this was the first one I found with pictures.

http://www.rfsolutions.co.uk/acatalog/Helical_Antenna.html

[tim]

I used used a piece of stiff wire. Doesn't look so good but works fine.

[tdodd]

Thanks for the idea and pointers. Right now 5m is sufficient range for me, although well below the advertised range, but I may have a dabble with modding my transmitter in the future. I'm sure others will welcome the advice :)

[b00ty]

I just recieved some of the 16 channel jobs. One reciever works WAYYY better than the other. I also cut some insulated copper wire and ran it around the inside of the case of the transmitter, attaching to the ground point and that helps even more. Plus no holes in the case :). I am able to fire it all throughout my house (30m or so) through walls and obstructions with probably 99% reliability, the other 1% is probably due to my flash recharging. I have contacted GI about the other receiver unit and they want me to send it to them for 'testing', which frankly I've already done side by side comparison and its like night and day between the two.

[FlashZebra]

I just recieved some of the 16 channel jobs. One reciever works WAYYY better than the other. I also cut some insulated copper wire and ran it around the inside of the case of the transmitter, attaching to the ground point and that helps even more. Plus no holes in the case :). I am able to fire it all throughout my house (30m or so) through walls and obstructions with probably 99% reliability, the other 1% is probably due to my flash recharging. I have contacted GI about the other receiver unit and they want me to send it to them for 'testing', which frankly I've already done side by side comparison and its like night and day between the two.
The distinct possibility of an out of box failure or marginal unit is a good reason to purchase these inexpensive radio slaves in the country you reside. This really streamlines the return process.

There are vendors selling the exact same 16 channel units on Ebay from the US.

Enjoy! Lon

[Ultimate CC]

I bought this and can not get it to work with my 580exII, I have the kit and then a hot shoe flash adaptor but it just doesn't work

[tim]

We need more information to help. Does the test button make the red light on the receiver go? Does the test button fire the flash? Are all the power switches turned on?

[Ultimate CC]

Yea the unit fires my abr800 no problem, the issues is getting the reciever to plug into the 580exII...if I hook up the 580exII directly to the unit and hit test it fires, but if i try to use the reciever it won't fire...i think it has to do with the adaptors or something...i have the monojack to the smaller jack to a coupler which has a smaller jack to pc connection and then that into the hotshoe adaptor on the 580exII...

[tim]

What do you mean "hook up the 580II directly to the unit"? Does it work with the hotshoe adaptor? Does it work plugged into the sync plug on the 580?

Does anything with the transmitter/receiver?

I still think you need to explain yourself better - what you're connecting to what, how you're triggering things, what works with what, etc.

[Ultimate CC]

http://www.danhonovich.com/img/v3/p346988191.jpg
http://www.danhonovich.com/img/v3/p302357489.jpg
http://www.danhonovich.com/img/v3/p532105726.jpg
http://www.danhonovich.com/img/v3/p353966164.jpg

[tim]

All of those images come up "content protected by owner".

[Ultimate CC]

http://www.danhonovich.com/p595976427/?photo=h14AE9E9F#346988191 i posted them in there, see if you can see those...

[Vortex99]

Images removed..




Can't view the photos, perhaps lower the security settings, on hosting site.

[Vortex99]

http://www.danhonovich.com/p595976427/?photo=h14AE9E9F#346988191 i posted them in there, see if you can see those...

Link works great. Thanks

[tim]

Yep, I can see them, but not sure why you posted pics without an explaination.

[Ultimate CC]

i posted them because the way i have them setup in the pictures is not working correctly and i am not sure what i am doing wrong...

[tim]

That was pretty cryptic.

Explain the equipment you have and how it's connected with words. Does the transmitter test button make the received test light go? Are things on the same channel? Are the batteries good?

[Ultimate CC]

well its connected as pictured besides the sender is on the camera and when u hit the test button the reciever lights up and they are on the same channel and they are fresh batteries but it just won't fire the flash

[tim]

Some things to try:
- Try having it fire a studio strobe (if you have one).
- Try moving the receiver 3m away from the transmitter (known issue).
- Try a different transmitter/receiver with it (if you have more than one).

[GerBee]

Some people left on the near invisible plastic coats ... !!!!

I routinely changed the batteries on arrival ~ cost more than the whole package did actually ~~ !!!!

I have two comments to add here:
1) Some people have reported that replacing the batteries in these units improves their performance dramatically, even when the supplied batteries indicate sufficient voltage.