Please help me improve this shot - three fold question about lighting indoors

[danpass]

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Ok, so I took this pic here (Michelle) and my goal is to improve the things I could have done to make this shot better. I am not talking about post processing work.

BEFORE

http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c222/danpass/critique/JesseMichelleIMG_7897.jpg





AFTER, and obviously grainy(er) which is what I am trying to minimize

http://www.danpassaro.com/img/v2/p842448256-4.jpg






and these were the conditions:

Canon 30D
70-200mm f/2.8 Non-IS
Manual mode
1/200
f/2.8
200mm
Pattern metering mode
ISO800
430EX flash set at -2/3 stop with Stoffen. Pointed directly upwards.
This worked well for about 90% of the shots

Environment:
Dark with backlighting [would have been nice to have some light in this corner (where they were all night)] but I guess it was ‘mood’ lighting LOL.



Highly detailed and properly scaled Situational Layout:

http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c222/danpass/critique/JesseMichelleDiagram.jpg






Question 1:
Would a bounce card setup have worked better? I was about 7ft away.



Question 2:
Would two flashes (none on camera) set up on tripods in strategic parts of the room with Pocket Wizards been better?
Set up where?
Bounce card, pointed at ceiling?
Stoffen pointed at ceiling?
Stoffen pointed at subject?



Question 3:
The above but with on camera flash (a third strobe not the popup)?
If so, how would you remote trigger the other strobes?



thanks,
dan



.

[sapearl]

This is not a really bad shot danpass for "catching the moment." The biggest issue I find with it is the distraction of the person in back. It's a little "hot" in her face, but not terribly so.

I don't use 2 flashes simultaneously so can't comment on that. I think the Stoffen really loses a lot in that dark environment pointed up. I don't own one because of the typical light loss. I'm a big fan of the little bounce card on my 580, or a larger one that I fashioned out of white plastic and velcro that I use, and also the lumiquest pocket bounce flash diffuser.

Typically when I'm at a reception that's pretty dim I'll be at ISO 800, M camera mode, AUTO-ETTL, shutter 1/30 or there abouts, and f/6.3 give or take a little. I drag the shutter with the camera in manual, and let the flash on AUTO take care of proper lighting. That and shooting in RAW, works about 99% of the time.

[danpass]

First post updated.

[tim]

There's too many basics wrong to worry about fancy stuff like multiple lights.
1. Expose it properly. FEC+1 is going to get you in the right ballpark.
2. Pay attention to the background (even for grab shots).
3. Why was the stofen pointed directly up? At 200mm that's why it's underexposed. Take the diffuser off and point the flash so it will light the ceiling somewhere near her. You will probably need to manually zoom the flash. That or use direct flash when you're at or near 200mm. Even ISO3200 may be better than underexposing at 800.

[danpass]

There's too many basics wrong to worry about fancy stuff like multiple lights.
1. Expose it properly. FEC+1 is going to get you in the right ballpark.
I was shooting manual with a non-IS lens

2. Pay attention to the background (even for grab shots).
Indeed LOL

3. Why was the stofen pointed directly up? At 200mm that's why it's underexposed. Take the diffuser off and point the flash so it will light the ceiling somewhere near her. You will probably need to manually zoom the flash. That or use direct flash when you're at or near 200mm. Even ISO3200 may be better than underexposing at 800.
Bounce card also another option?

...

[ofdphoto]

...

Shooting manual with a non-IS lens has nothing to do with FEC. You're thinking about EC. The -2/3 you set on your flash was FEC.

Bounce cards are used to augment existing bounced light. They throw a little light (or a lot, depending on size and angle) forward while the rest is bounced off the ceiling/wall/whatever. Check out the flip-it.

My suggestion... don't use the omnibounce when there is a perfectly good ceiling to bounce off. Use the ceiling and a flip-it (or similar).

[danpass]

Shooting manual with a non-IS lens has nothing to do with FEC. You're thinking about EC. The -2/3 you set on your flash was FEC.

Bounce cards are used to augment existing bounced light. They throw a little light (or a lot, depending on size and angle) forward while the rest is bounced off the ceiling/wall/whatever. Check out the flip-it.

My suggestion... don't use the omnibounce when there is a perfectly good ceiling to bounce off. Use the ceiling and a flip-it (or similar).


Gotcha.

The -2/3 was the recommended FEC - "more like daylight". Some 0 FEC shots did look blown out.

It was my first time using a strobe in this environment.





Awright - keep it coming.



(nobody would pre-setup some strobes?)




.

[ofdphoto]

The -2/3 was the recommended FEC - "more like daylight".

Recommended by whom?

I usually start by using a similar FEC to what I would use for EC if I was using ambient light ... i.e. light subject / large light background = +ve FEC. From there I use the histogram to tweak, and check it regularly. If you "set and forget" (even based on a recommendation), you're asking for exposure problems. Unless you use Nikon ;-)

Bear in mind that your camera has an E-TTL custom function which can be set to Evaluative or Average. This does make a difference to your results. Some members here use Average indoors and Evaluative outdoors, and report that 0 FEC is closer to what they want by using this method.

Re: using off-camera strobes in this situation ... to cover a whole reception venue you'd probably need at least 6 strobes. Some photographers do this, but not many. It's more common to have an off-camera strobe or two set up for the dancing and/or cake cutting. I have never done this myself, but that's just because I'm not confident enough yet to do it quickly.