future of film

[Aschlaman@comcast.net]

Hi,
my buddy has a Canon F1 camera with some lenses that he has up for sale. The price is very right and I have always wanted an F1. What is holding me back is that I am not sure how long film will be around? I don't want to buy it and find that film is discontinued.

Any speculation on how much longer it will be available? I just don't have any idea what the future will be for film.

Thanks in advancew.

Art Schlaman
5D, 20D, 30D, 100-400L, 24-70 f2.8L, 400 f5.6L, 120-300 f2.8 Sigma, 300-800mm Sigma, 85 f1.2L, 35 f1.4L, 135 f2L, 100mm Macro, 300mm f4.0L,

[andrewc]

I think you'll be able to get film for a long time to come, although getting it will mean mail order rather than nipping into town. Developing will also become more problematic, unless you can do colour processing yourself.

[CelticRavenVA]

Film is not going anywhere in the short term. Kodak still buys as much silver as they always have... You can tell from the price of it on the market. LOL

(For those that didn't know, Kodak is the worlds largest consumer of silver, or at least were while I was in college.)

[airfrogusmc]

Great cameras. Which F-1 is it? The first or second version? I had two of the old one and two of the newer ones at one time. Still have two one old and one new.

I think there will be other people offering 35mm film for a long while even if Kodak pulls the plug on 35mm film which I don't see happening for while but the choices are getting slim. Medium and large format film will be around for quite a while to come.

[ssim]

Have you been to a pro photography supply store lately. You can still buy virtually any type of film that you could 5 years ago. Film is not going anywhere anytime soon. You may not be able to buy it at your local drugstore but those places that cater to the pro photo market will continue to have it for a long time. I still provide my customers services in film if that what it calls for. I have had no issues getting the various types that I might require.

I would buy the camera, the F-1 is a sweet camera and was the premier body on the market at one point. You can still see some pros using that body.

[bauerman]

The title of this thread is an oxymoron. ;)

[cosworth]

film developing is now not usually one hour in remote locales.

Fort St. John, BC (I was told recently) now send out all film to be processed. But they print large format from digital on the spot. I'm sure they will still BUY film, but processing it will become centralised as time goes on. No one will bother with the machines since the cost of maintenance/operation will not outweigh revenue.

Film is going nowhere, but your local (rural) developer is.

[Mark_Cohran]

film developing is now not usually one hour in remote locales.

Fort St. John, BC (I was told recently) now send out all film to be processed. But they print large format from digital on the spot. I'm sure they will still BUY film, but processing it will become centralised as time goes on. No one will bother with the machines since the cost of maintenance/operation will not outweigh revenue.

Film is going nowhere, but your local (rural) developer is.

I haven't' checked any rural areas lately, but I suspect Cosworth is quite right. Here in Portland, in any case, film is quitely firmly established and processing is available in lots of places. Many of the local professionals are film snobs. :) Anyone who shoots with digital is not welcome in their little circles. :) :)

Mark

[Mcary]

film developing is now not usually one hour in remote locales.

Fort St. John, BC (I was told recently) now send out all film to be processed. But they print large format from digital on the spot. I'm sure they will still BUY film, but processing it will become centralised as time goes on. No one will bother with the machines since the cost of maintenance/operation will not outweigh revenue.

Film is going nowhere, but your local (rural) developer is.

The local Camera and Photography chain around here has been doing things that way for about two years and so far I think it works great. While I have to wait 24-48 hours to get my film back the quality control is worth it. I generally just put my film in an envelope with my info and instructions (process and sleeve only don’t cut) and drop it through the front mail shop on the way to work in the morning. They usually nice enough to give me a call on my cell to let me knew they’ve sent it off for development and also when they get it back. Once it back I just go down to the store roll the film out on the light table select the frames I need scanned and hand it back to be sent off for scanning.


Also both Kodak and Fuji have updated their professional lines of film with in the last year in order to optimize them for scanning as the majority of people shooting color film these day’s are using a hybrid work flows rather then traditional methods for printing.


Mike

[bauerman]

Wouldn't the lifespan of film be at least somewhat tied to camera manufacturers still producing cameras that use film? And if that is the case - hasn't production of film cameras come to almost a halt in some segments - like SLR's?

[CelticRavenVA]

Yeah not sure I can jump on the film is disappearing tomorrow route. Besides I still use FUJI labs for film processing when I need it.

[Mcary]

Wouldn't the lifespan of film be at least somewhat tied to camera manufacturers still producing cameras that use film? And if that is the case - hasn't production of film cameras come to almost a halt in some segments - like SLR's?

I'm pretty sure that if some one visited the Keh website a 100 years from now they'd still find Nikon F-3s for sale.

Mike

[futura]

I think film will be around for a while yet. I was at a recent Calumet seminar during the week listening to some of the leading UK landscape photographers (Joe Cornish, Charlie Waite and David Ward), all of them were shooting almost exclusively with film.

[Cybnew]

Wouldn't the lifespan of film be at least somewhat tied to camera manufacturers still producing cameras that use film? And if that is the case - hasn't production of film cameras come to almost a halt in some segments - like SLR's?


Not really...you can still go to your local target...walmart or best buy and buy a film rebel for under 200 dollars.

[CelticRavenVA]

And an instamatic for $30

[bauerman]

Not really...you can still go to your local target...walmart or best buy and buy a film rebel for under 200 dollars.

That would be old stock though - it will be gone sooner rather than later. As I understand it - Canon and Nikon are both not producing film SLR's any longer. At some point - that will hasten the end of the production of film I would assume as well.

Film production will slow to a crawl and then halt I would estimate at some point - its not really an "if" its more of a "when" in my mind.

[JaertX]

Film production will slow to a crawl and then halt I would estimate at some point - its not really an "if" its more of a "when" in my mind.

in your mind, being the key words there...

Kodak and Fuji are still developing new emulsions. I could see 35mm starting to be a rare thing, but that's going to be in the very distant future. C-41 won't be a problem to get developed, but you might have a harder time finding a lab to do E-6 or B&W...but it's really not that difficult to process your own negs.

Anyway, to the OP, go for it. Digital and film are not the same...you should really try both.

[breal101]

If film dies I think it will be the result of the main users of film, the motion picture industry, switching to digital. They have some really good stock, just try to shoot our film on a film set and you realize what range some of their stuff is capable of.

[bauerman]

Film companies have already cut R&D budgets for consumer film and will only produce the stuff as long as they see a light at the end of the profit tunnel. Kodak and other companies could care less that people are "married" to film and still want to use it 30 years from now - its all economics. So I would agree - as long as demand stays at a certain level and margin is available - you will still get film. I just see that demand waning very quickly.

Here is an section from an article that I think it applicable to this discussion. Hollywood is going digital as well.....

"When a Hollywood studio shoots a typical movie, it uses about 30 kilometres of 35mm film costing around $200,000. But that's only the start. A finished movie then has to be transferred to six large rolls of celluloid for each cinema screen at a cost of around $25,000.

That was less of a problem in the past, but with the arrival of multi-screen complexes and the modern practice of having a new movie open in thousands of locations simultaneously, this has become a huge cost and a logistical nightmare.

To get around this, Hollywood director George Lucas shot last year's Star Wars Episode II: Attack of the Clones movie using a digital camera. The camera would send each day's scenes directly to Lucas's computer editing suite. The technique is commonplace for smaller films and TV shows, but the last Star Wars adventure was the first big-budget movie to be created this way. "

[ghms421]

Don't kid yourself, aside from the fact the F-1 is an awesome camera, film isn't going anywhere. Pro landscape and "fine art" photographers are almost all shooting LF. The digital back offerings for LF are pretty weak thus far. Even though hasselblad and mamiya are advancing with digital backs, a good drum scan is still better (in most cases). Fuji just reintroduced velvia 50. Would they spend the time and money on reconfiguring the old emulsion for fun? No!, there is still a large market for film, and even if there wasn't an F-1 costs like $100 these days which isn't a huge set back.

[bauerman]

Fuji just reintroduced velvia 50. Would they spend the time and money on reconfiguring the old emulsion for fun? No!, there is still a large market for film.

A current large market does not a future large market make!

As I said - film will hold on just as long as the companies that make it make a buck selling it - no longer. Fuji, Kodak and whoever are not going to make film indefinitely just because a few niche markets exist that want it.

[JaertX]

A current large market does not a future large market make!

As I said - film will hold on just as long as the companies that make it make a buck selling it - no longer. Fuji, Kodak and whoever are not going to make film indefinitely just because a few niche markets exist that want it.

completely agree...a business is only stays in business when it makes a profit.

[saturnin]

whats happning is a trend switch.... film developing is going to get expensive and printing from files will be cheaper. Kinda like it was few years ago but other way round.

Film cheap and priting expensive...

same old $hit just different formats

[Mcary]

A current large market does not a future large market make!

As I said - film will hold on just as long as the companies that make it make a buck selling it - no longer. Fuji, Kodak and whoever are not going to make film indefinitely just because a few niche markets exist that want it.

What you'll see is small companies buying or licensing Fuji or Kodak's processes in order to meet the demands of those niche markets. There are always going to be people who want to shoot film and even having to order and have it processed through the mail isn't going to get them to switch to digital.

[FrankTheSpank]

Ilford filed for bankruptcy not long ago... they are keeping their head above water with paper sales.

Film is just about dead. Sure you'll be able to shoot film and have it processed but that will be a niche. Once that film processor dies at your local walgreens they won't bother replacing it, they'll just send it off for ya.

[bieber]

That would be old stock though - it will be gone sooner rather than later. As I understand it - Canon and Nikon are both not producing film SLR's any longer. At some point - that will hasten the end of the production of film I would assume as well.

Film production will slow to a crawl and then halt I would estimate at some point - its not really an "if" its more of a "when" in my mind.

Don't be silly. Nikon's latest film body and Canon's EOS 1V are both still very much in production.

[Tee Why]

Future of film? I'd say something along the lines of vinyl records and typewriters.
It'll slowly become harder to buy/develop.

[airfrogusmc]

Medium and large format film ain't gion anywhere. These folks usually are processing their own anyway. When in comes to medium and large format B&W film and silver gelatin or platinum prints digital doesn't come close in both look or tonal range.

[CelticRavenVA]

Future of film? I'd say something along the lines of vinyl records and typewriters.
It'll slowly become harder to buy/develop.

Harder is a matter of perspective. Go look at Oracle turntables... They are still around and doing a fine business.

[20droger]

And droves of disposables for under $10.

[DocFrankenstein]

That would be old stock though - it will be gone sooner rather than later. As I understand it - Canon and Nikon are both not producing film SLR's any longer. At some point - that will hasten the end of the production of film I would assume as well.

Film production will slow to a crawl and then halt I would estimate at some point - its not really an "if" its more of a "when" in my mind.Both canon and nikon keep producing film bodies.

With nikon it's the F6 and FM10 and with canon it's the 1V and a rebel of some sort. And there's a LOT of used ones.