New 1d MkII - focus/ sharpness issues.

[jacken]

So with anticipation at extreme level, I finally looked at the results from my MKII.
Not good.
Fuzzy, compared with my out of camera 1ds jpegs. (For me shooting raw and cnverting 200-300 raw shots at a wedding is not an option.) Just really low general sharpness even with in camera sharpening at highest (5) level!
I have seen many posts praising the mkII detail, but how many of these have come from 1ds owners?
I don't have much experience of other digi cams other than the 1ds so am i spoiled?
I have also seen many other posts regarding poor jpegs sharpness too.
However with closer inspection I find the mkII doesn't even focus accurately. I use autofocus centre point. This is spot on with the 28-70L on the 1ds but focuses behind the point on the mk11.
Canon Professional Services (CPS) tell me 28 days to turn around a repair.
Is this really professional?
On verge of going back to film - to get a life! :?

[defordphoto]

Do you have any other lenses? What's your typical workflow? There have been no issues with bad focusing on this camera, so either you have a bad lens, or your workflow needs to be tweaked. In-camera sharpening is not the answer. Most of us out here shoot all our photos with sharpness on ZERO.

Post some samples with no processing and with EXIF available.

[CyberDyneSystems]

Also.. any camera model can have a "dud".. although it would be nice to think that at this price point it can't happen.. it certainly can. Who knows what can happen to a camera either on the production line or .. more likely in shipping from overseas eventually to your door.

My Experience with Canon service has allways been vey quick. They tell me three weeks.. I get it back in about 10 days... I'm not sure if this is the norm.

[scottbergerphoto]

I have had the Mark II about 2 months and shot about 2000 shots. The AF is amazing, especially AI Servo's ability to track fast moving objects. If your problem persists with different lenses I suggest you take it to Canon.
Regards,
Scott

[Pekka]

"New 1d MkII - beware focus/ sharpness issues"?

Why should all "beware" if your lens/mk2 has some problems? Are you sure they are not just user issues with new gear? Mine works just fine.

[jacken]

From getting a product which
a) they might not be happy with in camera shaprpness
b) they might have to wait to get their cameras looked at as there seems to be some quality control issues

see this link for a simliar problem: http://www.robgalbraith.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=&Number=250256&page=0&view=collap sed&sb=5&o=&fpart=all&vc=1

I waited since February in the UK to get this camera, received last week.
I have put my name down on umpteen lists with suppliers, and actually by most have been told 2 more months wait. So really surprised that I got it.
So a replacement seems quite unlikely.
ps Cfn 17 makes no difference wether on or off, and I repeat the same situation does not occur on my 1ds with same lens.[/url]

[Andy_T]

Maybe you could post some examples (side-by-side-comparisons) in 100% crop.

What was your reason to get the 1DMKII over the 1Ds in the first place? The faster AF/FPS normally is not the most important issue in wedding photography.

Best regards,
Andy

[GenEOS]

If you are not happy with it and think there is a problem with the camera, quit griping about 2-3 weeks at CPS and send it in. You are not gaining anything by moaning about it. If you are a member of CPS, those guys are normally very concerned over you being happy with the product and will do what they can to get it fixed.

There have been problem cameras, it is going to happen. But to "warn" everyone of problems is not fair. Most of us have had this camera for a while and are getting boxes of tack sharp images from it.

Maybe the fix is to buy another 1Ds?

[Mark Kemp]

Beware - alarmist rumours!

I once took a picture with a camera that wasn't sharp from 0 feet to the horizon, wasn't perfectly exposed for land and sky and did not focus to within 0.1 micron of the eyes of the main subject, which was a sparrow 3/4 of a mile away. From this evidence I conclude that all cameras are completely useless and we should all give up photography immediately as its a total waste of time!

By the way - how did the guy in the link who is complaining about focussing on the wall behind his subjects get an image with the focus boxes in it? Either his camera exposes through the pentaprism or he faked it, in which case it can prove anything he wants it to!

[defordphoto]

"New 1d MkII - beware focus/ sharpness issues"?

Why should all "beware" if your lens/mk2 has some problems? Are you sure they are not just user issues with new gear? Mine works just fine.

I could not agree more. We see this "problem" everyday with new users of new cameras. They simply do not take the time to learn the camera. The MKII has so, so, so many settings that if you're not paying attention you can select something (including the MANY focus options) wrong for what you're shooting.

Remember back when some 10D cameras had some minor focus issues? Oncve that cropped up, then EVERYONE started measurebating their equipment and before long 1D, D60 and even Nikon users were reporting focus problems.

The MKII has 45 focus points. If set improperly by an unexperienced photographer, it can have terrible results.

The key here is that Jack is setting the sharpness in the camera to +5. That in itself tells me that someone's workflow needs tweaking.

[WestFalcon]

I agree with Jacken..he is an experienced wedding photographer with a 1DS. I'm sure he has read the book and analyzed variables before complaining. He's not a novice and it sounds like he has a camera problem to me. My 10D's have a focusing issue too. I've had film cameras from Canon for 30 years and never had focusing issues until the 10 D came along. My D60 and D30 focused fine. Let's not rip an experienced photographer...save that for first time users. So in this case, I side with Jacken....he should get that "sucker" back to Canon and make them get that "up to snuff" for a $4500 camera

[jacken]

... the xperiences of a new owner who has waited four months.
Maybe I am unlucky with my actual model.
Shouldn't people (especially here in the UK) who are waiting for or considering the investment be aware of other users experiences.
Isn't it what forums are for?

Thanks west falcon.
I am an experienced (20 years) pro. I have a 1ds (18 months) previously a D60 for a short time.
I do know a fault when I see it.
As regards out-of camera sharpeness is concerned, maybe this is a fault too. I just know that it is way soft.
I will post examples before long.

I read all sorts of posts before getting the camera, some of which agree with me with regards in camera sharpening. Have a look at Gary Fong's recommended settings:

"Sharpness is an issue with this camera at infinity. (see this thread in dpreview) My enlargements of scenics blown up to 12x18" enlargements, even at the highest quality at Largest image size resulted in an image that looked like it was printed from a 35mm neg, or with a very slight soft focus filter. Applying Unsharp Mask in the final print size did help somewhat, but it increased edge contrast with a discernable halo at larger sizes. This was the result despite setting the Parameter Set 1 to +5 sharpen, and then applying USM to the final sized image."

I saw all this before I got the camera.
BUT i still wanted to see for myself.
I don't see how workflow has anything to do with sharpness - if you are shooting jpegs!
Thanks guys.
Jacken


www.takeonephotography.co.uk

[skiphoto]

Hi Guys, I have had the same or similar focus issues with my 1D MK11 and aired them on this forum. I have also had the camera in the hands of another PRO who also got Focus issues.

A lot of you are quick to slam comments such as this about the MK11 but perhaps you are simply fortunate to have a perfectly working unit.

Don't be so quick to assume that other pro's are incapabale of using the Mk 11..we all put in our time with cameras and books and school of hard knocks..sometimes the equipment is the problem.

[Mark Kemp]

"I read all sorts of posts before getting the camera, some of which agree with me "

I wonder whether you would have noticed a problem if you hadn't read anything beforehand? Are you sure its not just a case of seeing what you expect?

Just in case - don't read anything about exposure issues :lol:

[jacken]

... and through three phonecalls they say it's an easy adjustment whcih they will fast-track. This leads me to think they have come across this before...?? They could not promise how long it will take though.
I see that we have the same surname.
That's probably all we have in common.
I also note that you are a very active member.
This is probably due to your penchant for slagging people off who have an opinion, which differs from your own. Not for your useful comments, help or advice.
I have just joined the forum today, precisely for the help I might get and impart.
I probably will now stop posting because I am now falling into the same trap as you - using this to voice personal references rather than equipment info or techniques & help for benefit of all viewers.
Thanks,

John Kemp
I am going to do some real work now.

[CyberDyneSystems]

Didn't we just go through this about a month ago over a 10D that wasn't focusing?

I'm locking this thread now before it goes as far south as that one did.

To Jacken: I never doubted that your camera had an issue. I am VERY glad that it will be repaired.

FYI,. Here is what you did wrong if you are interested? The "Beware" tag and the associated assuption that a bad copy of an item equals design fault for the model itself. This is ,. I am sure why some of us took such a strong position. For what it's worth. 8)

To those that jump to conclusions about others competancy:
Yes we've seen people who don't know how to use equipment and thus "blame the tools". But I am personally growing very fed up with that being becoming the assumption time and again. Can we not wait to assume ignorance after a little more investigation? Will we ever grow tired of being proved wrong by equipment that actually does fail?

If you want to slam Jacken... do it for the correct reason.. the "hysteria" approach :roll: ..

...let's not however simply assume he doesn't know what he's talking about.

Thanks :)

P.S. "beware" removed from thread title to avoid starting/creating a 10D-ish internet focus phenomona right here! :) :) :) :)

[Pekka]

... the xperiences of a new owner who has waited four months.
Maybe I am unlucky with my actual model.
Shouldn't people (especially here in the UK) who are waiting for or considering the investment be aware of other users experiences.
Isn't it what forums are for?

Yes the forums are for communicating good and bad. But in my opinion your problem is not a problem in the camera model or problem with Canon UK.

If you think you have a defective unit, just get it fixed.

i mean beware new purchasers From getting a product which
a) they might not be happy with in camera shaprpness
b) they might have to wait to get their cameras looked at as there seems to be some quality control issues

Issue a) is totally subjective and very much based on file format and workflow for each file format.
b) is valid for EVERY camera in market. You have to assume you may have to adjust your camera.

I do know a fault when I see it.
As regards out-of camera sharpeness is concerned, maybe this is a fault too. I just know that it is way soft.
I will post examples before long.

I really wonder why CPS would take 30 days to check it. They do also give replacement gear while your is in repair, don't they? Perhaps you talked to wrong people there.

I read all sorts of posts before getting the camera, some of which agree with me with regards in camera sharpening. Have a look at Gary Fong's recommended settings:

"Sharpness is an issue with this camera at infinity. (see this thread in dpreview) My enlargements of scenics blown up to 12x18" enlargements, even at the highest quality at Largest image size resulted in an image that looked like it was printed from a 35mm neg, or with a very slight soft focus filter. Applying Unsharp Mask in the final print size did help somewhat, but it increased edge contrast with a discernable halo at larger sizes. This was the result despite setting the Parameter Set 1 to +5 sharpen, and then applying USM to the final sized image."

He also says:

the softness of the images probably has to do with the anti-aliasing filter. I've tried cranking the sharpness to +5, but it still looks soft. I did unsharp mask, and it looks soft - when I crank the pixel size, the edges look solarized due to a halo glow. I'm trying to find a solution for this- I've heard good things about Phase One Professional, but it's about 500 bucks. It also requires that you shoot everything in RAW.

I just wonder why does a world class wedding photographer seem to have problem with putting 500 dollars on software which he agrees will present a solution to the problem?

Photokit Sharpener is other very good sharpening solution. The main thing is that you have a camera which is DESIGNED to give you the final word on sharpening. The AA filter in Mark II is strong but it does not kill detail. You just do not get moire and jaggyness problems like with 1D.

I don't see how workflow has anything to do with sharpness - if you are shooting jpegs!

Workflow is essential part of digital shooting. What Mark II JPEG gives you is "capture sharpened". You'll need to "output sharpen" them to match desired output media.

RAW+C1+Etcetera profile is the easiest and best quality workflow - with it you seldom do not need to post process in Photoshop at all.

PS. I see big (especially wedding photographer) names "bitching" about these JPEG issues when they know that RAW will get them best quality. Still they keep bitching about JPEG's. Don't they have 20 4gig memory cards and 5 superfast computers? Why don't they shoot RAW+JPEG and choose later in office? Mark II is equally fast shooting RAW, RAW conversion is very fast, RAW gives you a 48 bit digital undeveloped negative you can do to print in any way you like - all this power blissfully ignored, ignored by people who are paid big bucks to deliver ultimate quality, who print big and who apparently strive after better quality all the time. I really don't get where the problem is when solution is already here.