First attempt at B&W, comments please

[Aylwin]

Inspired by the many B&W posts and by TimmyQuest's excellent tutorial, I thought I'd try my hand at B&W. I can't say I'm a big fan of B&W but there's something about a good B&W that sometimes makes me just stare at it.

This was taken last year when my daughter was 4 months old. No editing except for size reduction and afterwards some sharpening. Actually, I like it already as color.
http://www.cal-family.org/download/CRW_1807_orig.jpg

Here's the B&W version after editing and applying TimmyQuest's tutorial (double Hue & Saturation layers).:
http://www.cal-family.org/download/CRW_1807_bw.jpg

I'd appreciate some comments on the conversion technique. Is there anything that should have been more or less? Any other tips/tricks to improve on this? Or is this particular photo not a good choice for B&W to begin with? What about the crop? More or less?

Please fire away. Even the harshest comments would be most welcome. :)

[arumdevil]

i'd say it's pretty good. I used the colour version to convert to B&W using Timmyq's tutorial method and got almost the same results as you, the only thing that was noticeably different in what I did was colour/hue separation was a little better, especially in the ball the clown is holding.

try setting the hue slider to around -110.

other than that I think it's good, crop too.


[edit]

actually, it could do with a touch more contrast, try adjusting with curves or Unsharp mask @ 10,12,0 (are you using photoshop?)

[Radtech1]

I say leave the color and choose a different shot for mono attempts.

The browns and pinks of the color are so warm and comforting that it is a shame to loose them. PLUS, and this is a big one - a lot of babies have skin that is blotchy and red. This child's skin is like porcelain. Leave it as is.

Rad

[Aylwin]

arumdevil, thanks for the tips... especially on the contrast. I didn't realise those settings would have such an effect on b&w.

Rad, as usual, thanks for the comments. I really have difficulty choosing which photos to convert to b&w because I generally prefer color. Any tips?

How about this one (it doesn't have much color anyway):
http://www.cal-family.org/download/Louvre.jpg

And in b&w:
http://www.cal-family.org/download/Louvre_bw.jpg

Same procedure. Hue slider at +30 (I honestly don't know which position is best). Plus, a bit of contrast as per arumdevil's tip.

In the end, I still think the color version is better. Either I'm doing it wrong or I just don't know which photos work best as b&w. :roll:

[arumdevil]

in my experience (and my preference you could say) anything with sky as main interest looks worse in B&W. I find pictures of objects tend to work the best. as always there are always exceptions but normally if you convert to B&W and it works you will know for sure that it looks right. if you're not sure then leave it in colour.

that's what i reckon anyway. this pyramid thing looks better in colour IMHO

[shniks]

I really like the first b+w conversion of the baby. A lot of detail has been retained and I think it suits the photo well. I am curious about the technique - where is Timmy's tutorial? Looks like it works well.
I prefer the second one in colour, because its a shame to loose the nice colours in the sky.

[Aylwin]

in my experience (and my preference you could say) anything with sky as main interest looks worse in B&W. I find pictures of objects tend to work the best. as always there are always exceptions but normally if you convert to B&W and it works you will know for sure that it looks right. if you're not sure then leave it in colour.
Hmmm... I don't shoot too many objects. Maybe that's why I'm having trouble finding something suitable to convert.

Oh well, back to the drawing board. :roll:


shniks, I like the first one too. It's actually one of my favorites so I thought I'd try to see how it looks in b&w. I think it's okay. I've also tried printing it and it holds up pretty well. Still, I agree with Rad that the original color version is much better.

Anyway, here's Timmy's simple but very effective tutorial:
http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?t=34977&highlight=

[mdude85]

Have you considered applying a black-->white gradient map on this shot? I'm not sure what is in that tutorial ....

[Aylwin]

No, I haven't. How do you do that?

[mdude85]

Image > Adjustments > Gradient Map.

[mdude85]

Image > Adjustments > Gradient Map.

[mdude85]

Image > Adjustments > Gradient Map.

[mdude85]

sorry for the multiple post, my connection is being screwy today. :roll:

[Aylwin]

Thanks for the tip. I've just tried it but I couldn't get it even close to my current results. Timmy's method produces a much smoother look. Don't know if I'm doing it wrong though.

Perhaps you could check out the tutorial and then compare both techniques yourself?

[mdude85]

I'm new to these forums...do you mind if I mess with your image and reupload it in my post to show you what I have done?

[Aylwin]

No problem! Feel free!

And welcome to the forums! I'm relatively new here myself but so far all I can say is that this place is absolutely wonderful! :D

[mdude85]

Here is your image:




http://www.cal-family.org/download/CRW_1807_bw.jpg

And here is the image I edited:


http://www.prism.gatech.edu/~gtg489q/DSC.jpg

I took your original COLOR image and applied the following:

gradient map ( b-->w)

auto color

auto levels

cuves: slight s-curve

[Aylwin]

Your link doesn't work. I thought this one would because this is usually the url format for PBase but...

http://www.pbase.com/image/30958538.jpg

Anyway, I checked it here: http://www.pbase.com/image/30958538 (simply removed the .jpg)

I still prefer my version. You can see the smoother texture especially noticeable on the face. I think Timmy's method is very simple but also, imho, very effective. Unless of course gradient map produces the exact effect you desire.

[mdude85]

Also, for the louvre shot, I wouldn't recommend converting it to b&w for a few reasons. One is that the photo is already pretty dark, especially in the bottom half. Converting it to be b&w is only going to leave you with a bunch of uninteresting dark greys. Also, sunsets typically don't look very good in b&w...I'd leave them in color because they are such nice photographic subjects.

[Aylwin]

Thanks for the feedback. B&W is certainly something I still need to work on. For starters, I need to figure out which shots are suitable.

[arumdevil]

at the end of the day there are so many different ways to convert to black and white that it will vary from one photo to another which method gives the best result.

another method is to have a color balance or channel mixer adjustment layer followed by a hue/sat layer to desauturate (or even a gradient map layer). it is similar to timmyq's tutorial method but gives you even more control.

I like to do all this with adjustment layers rather than applying directly to the image for easier comparison and adjustment.

another way is to copy the main layer (drag the layer to the new layer button in the layer window), set the new layer's blending mode to color, then set opacity to 50% and invert the polarity (image>adjustments>invert). strangely, this method sometimes (but not always) leaves little patches of colour which normally look weird but can sometimes look quite good.


[edit] i think the shot for your avatar works really well in B&W, do you have a larger version?

[Aylwin]

Thanks for the tips! Your first method sounds a bit tricky but I'll take them both as assignments. :) Hopefully, I'll be back later with more praise worthy material.

There's such a wealth of information on these forums that sometimes I think my head will explode! :shock:

Okay, that's it for today. It's nearly 1:30am here in Japan! So actually it's tomorrow already. :roll: