Sunpak 383 or Vivitar 285HV

[Alexajlex]

Hi,

I'm new when it comes to flash.
I have an EOS 650 and will at one point go to an XTi or XTi2 (Feb 08 if the rumors are true on the release date).

I read the POTN post/review of the 383 and want to know if I should get the 383 or 285HV. I also read the article on the strobist on the 285. I realized these are manual no TTL flashes and I'm fine with that.

I know that the 285 does not swivel.

Thanks.

[Gatorboy]

Either one is fine.

[FlashZebra]

The 285HV does not swivel, the 383 does not zoom.

For off camera work it is likely that swivel is more important that zoom.

For on camera work it is more likely zoom is more important that swivel.

The 383 is slightly smaller.

The 383 has one extra manual power setting.

Both have a proprietary sync port, but cords are far easier to find for the Vivitar.

They have the same power.

I have seen a lot of web posts about the new 285HV either not working out of box, or failing shortly after the initial use.

There are more aftermarket accessories for the 285HV.

The power settings on the 383 are easier to get at.

Pick and choose what is important to you.

Enjoy! Lon

[asylumxl]

For off camera work it is likely that swivel is more important that zoom.

For on camera work it is more likely zoom is more important that swivel.

I would have thought it would be the other way round. If i had a flash on a lightstand off camera, why would i use swivel if i could simply turn the lightstand around? Ofcourse, the zoom on the flash can also be used to create a more concentrated pool of light without the need for any extra modifiers.

[FlashZebra]

I would have thought it would be the other way round. If i had a flash on a lightstand off camera, why would i use swivel if i could simply turn the lightstand around? Ofcourse, the zoom on the flash can also be used to create a more concentrated pool of light without the need for any extra modifiers.
With the swivel on the 383 you can always have the power setting on the outside of your light modifier. If you stuff a 285HV in a softbox, you have to get inside to change the power levels.

Much off camera work is done with umbrellas, where you typically do not want to zoom, but fill the umbrella with light.

Also, when off camera it is much harder to aim the flash, making zoom harder to use, so many will default to a wide setting anyway in order to be sure you fill the frame with even light.

Enjoy! Lon

[RPCrowe]

Both the Vivitar 285 and 283 (series) electronic flash units, as well as the Sunpak 383 have Thyristor controlled exposure. That is, the flash is controlled by the light reflected back from the subject to the flash unit, or to an auxillary sensor which can be mounted on the hotshoe of the flash unit.

The Thyristor system was the standard "auto flash" for a long while before TTL type exposure control was available. It can do a very creditable job but needs some help from the computer that should be located between most photographers ears but, unfortunately is often unwilling to be turned on.

One important difference between the Vivitar units and the Sunpak 283 is that the Vivitar units only tilt for bounce flash. The Sunpak both tilts and swivels. This can be important when you are bouncing off a ceiling and have your camera in the portrait position. The Sunpak sells for a great price new and for "next to nothing" used. Given the inexpensive price of a new 383; I don't think that I would gamble on a used one.

The plastic foot of the Vivitar 285 will sometimes fail due to the stress put on it by the heavy flash. There are however, after-market metal feet which solve this problem.

Sunpak had distributed a great flash in the past; the 120J. Exposure control was either with thryistor circuitry or with TTL using dedicated modules.

I used these flash units for my weddings. The 120J had a high guide number (roughly a stop higher than the 285 or 383 units), could swivel and tilt both, could use either internal aa batteries or a rechargeable battery pack which could be purchased as part of a kit. If you used the battery pack - recharge time was almost instantaneous. The reflector could be removed from the 120J and diffusers such as softboxes added or the unit could be used "bare bulb" without a reflector at all. This technique provides great lighting. Too bad Sunpak is no longer producing the 120J - it was a great flash.

By the way, if you are using a non EOS flash, ensure that the sync voltage is not too high. Some older Vivitar 283 or 285 units had voltages high enough to fry the circuitry of some Canon cameras. A Wein Safe Sync added between the camera hot shoe and the flash will solve this problem but, the mounting is pretty precarious for heavy flashes like the Vivitar 285.

[Alexajlex]

Both the Vivitar 285 and 283 (series) electronic flash units, as well as the Sunpak 383 have Thyristor controlled exposure. That is, the flash is controlled by the light reflected back from the subject to the flash unit, or to an auxillary sensor which can be mounted on the hotshoe of the flash unit.

The Thyristor system was the standard "auto flash" for a long while before TTL type exposure control was available. It can do a very creditable job but needs some help from the computer that should be located between most photographers ears but, unfortunately is often unwilling to be turned on.

One important difference between the Vivitar units and the Sunpak 283 is that the Vivitar units only tilt for bounce flash. The Sunpak both tilts and swivels. This can be important when you are bouncing off a ceiling and have your camera in the portrait position. The Sunpak sells for a great price new and for "next to nothing" used. Given the inexpensive price of a new 383; I don't think that I would gamble on a used one.

The plastic foot of the Vivitar 285 will sometimes fail due to the stress put on it by the heavy flash. There are however, after-market metal feet which solve this problem.

Sunpak had distributed a great flash in the past; the 120J. Exposure control was either with thryistor circuitry or with TTL using dedicated modules.

I used these flash units for my weddings. The 120J had a high guide number (roughly a stop higher than the 285 or 383 units), could swivel and tilt both, could use either internal aa batteries or a rechargeable battery pack which could be purchased as part of a kit. If you used the battery pack - recharge time was almost instantaneous. The reflector could be removed from the 120J and diffusers such as softboxes added or the unit could be used "bare bulb" without a reflector at all. This technique provides great lighting. Too bad Sunpak is no longer producing the 120J - it was a great flash.

By the way, if you are using a non EOS flash, ensure that the sync voltage is not too high. Some older Vivitar 283 or 285 units had voltages high enough to fry the circuitry of some Canon cameras. A Wein Safe Sync added between the camera hot shoe and the flash will solve this problem but, the mounting is pretty precarious for heavy flashes like the Vivitar 285.

Thanks for the advice.

I read about the high voltage (I think 6V is the max according to Canon).

I want to get into weddings (and other) and of course the 580Ex was up on the first spot. I think because of the cycle time according to people (but I heard the 383 is not too bad).

I'm leaning towards the 383.

[MT Stringer]

For fast recycle times, you might want to incorporate a battery like the Quantum Battery 1. It requires a module for your flash, so check that out. Recycle times are real fast. I used one shooting cheerleading competition and it recycled quickly.
Good luck with you purchase.
Mike

[Alexajlex]

For fast recycle times, you might want to incorporate a battery like the Quantum Battery 1. It requires a module for your flash, so check that out. Recycle times are real fast. I used one shooting cheerleading competition and it recycled quickly.
Good luck with you purchase.
Mike

So this is for the Sunpak 383?

[MT Stringer]

I was using a Vivitar 283 with the MA2 module. I'm not sure if they make a module for the Sunpak.
Mike

[bieber]

I know it wasn't one of your listed choices, but I'm absolutely in love with my Nikon SB-25 and SB-26. They're still really cheap (you can pick up an SB-25 for well under $100 used on B&H, or an SB-26 for a little over $100), the SB-26 has a built-in optical slave, and they both have modern feeling LCD panel interfaces, zoom, swivel, and bounce heads, with flip down wide angle panels and bounce cards, as well as Stroboscopic modes and highly reliable thyristor auto flash. They come loaded with all the features you expect in a modern flash (hell, they'll even TTL meter on older Nikon film bodies), they're reliable, they're powerful, they have good recycle times, and they work easily off-camera with their built-in standard PC ports. Not sure how expensive the Vivitars and Sunpacks are, but they've still gotta be pretty close price-wise.

Oh, wow, at the moment apparently neither are in stock at B&H. You can always find them on eBay, though, or just wait til they get more in...

[raymushgrush]

Don't forget that the Sunpak 383 will work with the Sunpak TrPakIIa which is an external battery pack that runs a little less than $100.00. An external battery pack for the Vivitar 285HV will run at least twice that.

I own and use Sunpak 383's with the Sunpak TrPakIIa battery packs and Vivitar 285HV's. I also added the after market metal foot to all of my Vivitar 285HV's after they started breaking off. This metal foot runs about $50.00 so your Vivitar 285HV is now a $130.00 flash unit.

Based on my experience I would buy the Sunpak 383.

[cooperjai]

I also added the after market metal foot to all of my Vivitar 285HV's after they started breaking off. This metal foot runs about $50.00 so your Vivitar 285HV is now a $130.00 flash unit.


wow $50. I paid about $7 for my last one off ebay.

[cprofit]

I know it wasn't one of your listed choices, but I'm absolutely in love with my Nikon SB-25 and SB-26. They're still really cheap (you can pick up an SB-25 for well under $100 used on B&H, or an SB-26 for a little over $100), the SB-26 has a built-in optical slave, and they both have modern feeling LCD panel interfaces, zoom, swivel, and bounce heads, with flip down wide angle panels and bounce cards, as well as Stroboscopic modes and highly reliable thyristor auto flash. They come loaded with all the features you expect in a modern flash (hell, they'll even TTL meter on older Nikon film bodies), they're reliable, they're powerful, they have good recycle times, and they work easily off-camera with their built-in standard PC ports. Not sure how expensive the Vivitars and Sunpacks are, but they've still gotta be pretty close price-wise.

I second the recommendation for the SB-26 for a second flash - the optical slave and it's PC interface mean you don't need a peanut of a synch cord in order to use this second light. For a main flash I recommend a 430EX or 580EX so you can still have TTL ability on your main flash when you use it on-shoe. While on-shoe lighting isn't the best, it works in a pinch and when you don't want to carry a huge camera rig around.

[bieber]

This is a good point. I've still got a 580EX riding along in my bag, in case I ever need ETTL in a pinch for on-camera light, and, if necessary, to use as a third light via sync cords, but that's a PITA, thanks to its lack of sync port...

[transcend]

The 285HV does not swivel, the 383 does not zoom.

For off camera work it is likely that swivel is more important that zoom.

For on camera work it is more likely zoom is more important that swivel.


I find quite the opposite (and I work exclusively with off camera setups). You can position it however you want off camera, swivel isn't necessary. Zoom, on the other hand, is quite necessary.

[FlashZebra]

I find quite the opposite (and I work exclusively with off camera setups). You can position it however you want off camera, swivel isn't necessary. Zoom, on the other hand, is quite necessary.
With the swivel on the 383 you can always have the power setting on the outside of your light modifier. If you stuff a 285HV in a softbox, you have to get inside to change the power levels.

Much off camera work is done with umbrellas, where you typically do not want to zoom, but fill the umbrella with light.

Also, when off camera it is much harder to aim the flash, making zoom harder to use, so many will default to a wide setting anyway in order to be sure you fill the frame with even light.

Enjoy! Lon

[transcend]

With the swivel on the 383 you can always have the power setting on the outside of your light modifier. If you stuff a 285HV in a softbox, you have to get inside to change the power levels.

Much off camera work is done with umbrellas, where you typically do not want to zoom, but fill the umbrella with light.

Also, when off camera it is much harder to aim the flash, making zoom harder to use, so many will default to a wide setting anyway in order to be sure you fill the frame with even light.

Enjoy! Lon

If I need to use light modifiers, I use portable studio lights, not flashes.

[Mr. Clean]

If I need to use light modifiers, I use portable studio lights, not flashes.
That good but keep you mind open. Your way is not the only way.

[markhyo]

Just throwing in my $.02. I've been using Vivitar 285 Hv's since I got my 20d over 2 years ago. I started out with 1 and now I have 3. I eventually plan to add a couple more. While they don't have a swivel, they are rock solid flashes. I use them in softboxes (Westscott Apollo's), Umbrellas, bare.... you name it. I mainly shoot portraits on-location, indoors and outdoors. I use the 285's with radio triggers and plug the sync cord directly in the trigger. As far as swivel It's not a big concern because I usually mount them on an umbrella bracket which can tilt, swivel etc. I use them like I would studio strobes because they are so portable and they get the job done. You do have to learn to use the flash manually but after a while you can do it in your head. I'm glad I learned this way because whenever I move to studio flashes I will already know how to calculate the exposure. The images below were shot with all Vivitars:


http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1154/1143420864_3a7b2f1b6f.jpg

http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1139/1055925756_e7b75227bf.jpg

http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1408/712174991_7102b412d4.jpg

http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1264/1055066845_8a6490a22d.jpg

More images at http://www.flickr.com/photos/markwphoto/