30D Constant Battle with Sharpness

[currymonster]

Hi All,

Had my 30D for about 10 months now, and have been using Canon 70-200L F2.8 IS and Canon 100-400L IS Lenses.

My problem is this, I take shots of aircraft at my local airport taking off. I never seem to be able to get the pictures sharp and they always look a little grainy.

Am I wrong to think that with these IS lenses I should expect sharpness without any post processing.

All these were taken with my 100-400 L IS lens using AI Focus at ISO 100 on Manual

Questions are, of course softness could be caused by me (Camera Shake) these shots were taken in far from ideal light conditions and the burning question I was panning these aircraft and is AI Focus or AI Servo the one to use.

My Lens was set to Stabilizer Mode 2 and the 6.5M setting.

I have taken sharper shots of static aircraft, it usualy seems to be poor quality when I am panning aircraft taking off.

Any advice will be more than appreciated, please be as brutal as you want, I am determined to learn this once and for all.

File Name IMG_8337.CR2
Camera Model Canon EOS 30D
Shooting Date/Time 27/08/2007 10:32:26
Shooting Mode Manual Exposure
Tv( Shutter Speed ) 1/400
Av( Aperture Value ) 8.0
Metering Mode Spot Metering
ISO Speed 100
Lens EF100-400mm f/4.5-5.6L IS USM
Focal Length 400.0 mm

BELOW

http://i136.photobucket.com/albums/q172/currymonster_album/IMG_8425.jpg



BELOW

Shooting Mode Manual Exposure
Tv( Shutter Speed ) 1/400
Av( Aperture Value ) 8.0
Metering Mode Spot Metering
ISO Speed 100
Lens EF100-400mm f/4.5-5.6L IS USM
Focal Length 160.0 mm
Image Size 3504x2336
Image Quality RAW
Flash Off
White Balance Mode Auto
AF Mode AI Focus AF
Picture Style Standard
Sharpness 5


http://i136.photobucket.com/albums/q172/currymonster_album/IMG_8367.jpg



BELOW

Tv( Shutter Speed ) 1/400
Av( Aperture Value ) 8.0
Metering Mode Spot Metering
ISO Speed 100
Lens EF100-400mm f/4.5-5.6L IS USM
Focal Length 400.0 mm
Image Size 3504x2336
Image Quality RAW
Flash Off
White Balance Mode Auto
AF Mode AI Focus AF
Picture Style Standard
Sharpness 5

http://i136.photobucket.com/albums/q172/currymonster_album/IMG_8338.jpg


BELOW

Shooting Mode Manual Exposure
Tv( Shutter Speed ) 1/400
Av( Aperture Value ) 9.0
Metering Mode Spot Metering
ISO Speed 100
Lens EF100-400mm f/4.5-5.6L IS USM
Focal Length 400.0 mm
Image Size 3504x2336
Image Quality RAW
Flash Off
White Balance Mode Auto
AF Mode AI Focus AF
Picture Style Standard
Sharpness 5


http://i136.photobucket.com/albums/q172/currymonster_album/IMG_8324.jpg

[cosworth]

I don't see any grain or softness myself. I do see a lack of post processing sharpening.

What program are you using?

As far as "photography" goes you may need to up your ISO and get a bit higher shutter speed to maybe combat focal length rule. but you'd lose a little turbine and wheels blur. Switch to 1 on IS. I only use 2 when panning stuff that is going past me at aircraft speed about 75 feet away.

I'm not near my PP machine right now, but if you use CS2/3 then I'd get on sharpening these with unsharp mask.

[currymonster]

Thanks for the help ,
I have not haven't touched these with Photoshop yet, and was wondering mainly should I need to use PS to sharpen, or should it be sharp already given this fantastic lens (I know it needs a "fantastic" person behind it)

Regarding Panning, I was panning these aircraft and was always told to use mode 2 for that, maybe I need to try mode 1?



Thanks

Steve

[cosworth]

I'd use 2 for these. If you are panning something close and fast yes. I've not panned aircraft so you could try and see if you like the difference with 2, if there is one.

A DSLR is always in need of sharpening photos. Take a raw shot and sharpen with unsharp mask at 300, 0.3,0 - the stock Canon recommendation I believe.

I have had a lot of differnet sharpening workflows over the past while and can;t really pin it down on one route being best for all shots. I have about 10 different recipes!

Right now, I like two passes of unsharp mask, twice:

web

200,0.3,0
15,100,0

resize to web:

200,0.3,0

>For print it will be salted to taste. but the above numbers might change next week. My sharpening recips is always in flux as different lenses and bodies and days and shot and and and ... all react differentyl to sharpening.

[kingsown]

just tryed the 300,0.3,0 unsharpmask on the last pic makes a hell of a dif

[Bill Ng]

I'm confused about your exposure .... why are you shooting at such a low shutter speed and closed aperture when you could open it up a lot more and get considerably more shutter speed?

Bill

[currymonster]

Many thanks for all of your eplies guys, lots of very helpful constructive advice, I will go away and try these tips.

Thanks again for your time

Steve

[rockabilly808]

well can't spek for post processing but as far as just shooting i'd suggest upping your shutter speed and ISO a bit, and evaluative spot metering.

[S.Horton]

They look underexposed on this monitor, and the shutter speed needs to be moved up to about 1/1000 to freeze that.

Move up ISO to obtain shutter speed, then see what happens.

[sandpiper]

I agree with the comments above, regarding use of a little PP sharpening.This is pretty much essential with all images from Canon DSLRs due to the anti-alias filter being fairly strong. That will make a significant improvement.

I also agree with the comments that increasing shutter speed may help too. Whilst it is certainly possible to shoot at 1/400 for pan shots without problem motion blur (on the subject), it takes practice to follow the target accurately enough for really sharp results. Bear in mind that the takeoff speed of commercial airliners is typically 150mph and upwards, so the target is moving at quite a speed. IS, in panning mode, only helps with vertical damping and so won't help with motion blur along the line of the pan. A faster shutter speed could help with sharpness therefore.

Nobody has answered the AI focus or AI servo question yet, so I'll throw that one in. Stick to AI servo for pan shots. AI focus is a bit of a compromise as it decides for each shot whether it needs one-shot mode or AI servo and shoots accordingly. Most users feel that it is better to decide for yourself, and I personally agree with that and never use AI focus. Having said that, AI focus should select AI servo automatically in this situation.

[canonloader]

Am I wrong to think that with these IS lenses I should expect sharpness without any post processing.
Yes you are. :)

I'm like Cosworth, I use several sharpening recipes. No one will work on all. Canon says to use USM @ 300.0, 0.3, 0.0. I used that for awhile, then found another person said to use 50.0, 0.3, 0.0. I tired it and it works a whole lot better. If you need some more, do it again. If it needs more than 2 times, the image is blurred, retake it.

What I use most often is to open the converted from RAW jpg in CS2. Open the Channels Palette and click Red. Look at the image for blur, then check Green and Blue for blur. Usually it's the Red that is worst. Select the Red and go to Filters/Sharpen/Sharpen Edges, once. Look at the RGB Channel. It should look a lot better. If it needs a bit more, next most blurred is usually Green, hit that one too.

Another good sharpening technique, when the above two don't get it or look too cheezy, is to sharpen in Lab Color Mode. Open the jpg as before, go to Image/Mode/Lab Color. Select the Lightness Channel and do a USM on that channel. Set it to 45.0, 1.0, 0.0. If you need to mess with it set the 1.0 down to about 0.3. Then go back to Image/Mode and set it back to RGB Color mode.

Any of these only takes a few seconds and will really make a difference.

[PhotosGuy]

and the shutter speed needs to be moved up to about 1/1000 to freeze that. That would work OK for jets. For props, you'll need to go lower, so it wouldn't hurt to go out & practice with close moving traffic sometime.

Some tips on panning in these threads:
drag racing tips (http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?t=108521)
Panning Shots (http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?t=58417)
Newbie question about cycling shots (http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?t=308350)

[cricketboy75]

are you using a tripod?

[sando]

One thing I noticed is that you're using AI Focus. Use AI Servo, or One Shot. AI Focus tries to figure out if you want One Shot or AI Servo... and doesnt really work that well.

Another was that you're using f/8 with tele-lenses. The DoF looks to be very narrow. The wings of one picture looked very sharp whereas the nose-cone didnt look as sharp.

Apart from that, I dont really see that the pictures are soft at all. You have great pics there that could benefit maybe from a little post sharpening, but that's it. :)

[cosworth]

Canon 30D, focal length 400mm, distance to subject 300 metres, f/8 gives me 185m of DOF. That seems enough.

[currymonster]

They look underexposed on this monitor, and the shutter speed needs to be moved up to about 1/1000 to freeze that.

Move up ISO to obtain shutter speed, then see what happens.

Thanks again all of you for even more help and advice, I have noticed that this camera does seem to shoot underexposed very easily and I have in the past experimented with higher shutter speeds such as 1/1000 and a higher ISO 200-300 this gave me very dark results even with the aperture opened right up to 5.6 on this Canon 100-400 lens.

Next time I get the opportunity to go to the airport I can't wait to try out all of your tips, I will of course report back and show examples.

Thanks once again guys I really appreciate all of your time.

Kind regards

Steve

[cosworth]

Try a different metering mode or switch to M shooting and get the feel for the camera.

[sandpiper]

Thanks again all of you for even more help and advice, I have noticed that this camera does seem to shoot underexposed very easily and I have in the past experimented with higher shutter speeds such as 1/1000 and a higher ISO 200-300 this gave me very dark results even with the aperture opened right up to 5.6 on this Canon 100-400 lens.



I notice that you are using spot metering, which needs to be used with care as it is metering from such a small part of the scene. If metering the fuselage of a white aircraft it will cause a dark image to be produced, the same goes for the sky. Switching to evaluative metering will help out, if that is the cause of the problem, as it reads the whole scene and calculates exposure from that.

If you check your histogram after a shot or two and then use the exposure compensation to shift it to the right, without unduly clipping the right hand side, that should give you lighter images. In bright conditions, you may need to allow some clipping where the light shines off the fuselage, in order to keep the rest of the image from being too dark. Using RAW, as you are, will keep the maximum detail in the image in such conditions.

[andrewhuxman]

I have the 30D and I have my sharpness at 6 in picture style works for me.

[sandpiper]

I have the 30D and I have my sharpness at 6 in picture style works for me.

That's fine if you work in jpeg, but the OP is shooting in RAW so the picture styles are irrelevant. He simply needs to apply the sharpening in post processing.

[currymonster]

Thanks Sandpiper advice taken onboard will try next time at Manc Airport

Cheers

Steve