What about Printing B&W??

[SWPhotoImaging]

I have found many excellent referrals here on the forum to lessons on converting color to B&W, and have practiced with many of them. I have done a numbr of successful conversions, and have some that I am very pleased with . . . .on screen.

The problem comes with printing B&W. On a typical six-color printer(i9100 in my case), you get exactly one color of black to work with. Printed images using this setup come nowhere near the richness and depth of photographic B&W, where unlimited shades of grey are possible.

I am considering buying a second printer, equipping it with one of the available sets of multi-shade B&W cartridge kits, and dedicating it to B&W printing.

Does anyone here have such a setup? What printer did you use? How do you like it? Whose ink cartridges did you use? What paper are you finding does the best job of reproducing a near-photographic printed output?

[Aylwin]

I've printed b&w on my i950 and they've turned out very well. Printer setting remains color though, NOT b&w. Although I don't know if that makes any difference.

[Scottes]

I've heard that Piezography and Lysonic are popular for B&W printing. Maybe their websites have some info....

[Digital Prophet]

I was at ye old office supply store the other day when I saw that HP had a B+W cartridge (http://www.officedepot.com/ddSKU.do?level=SK&id=150778). Now I have yet to actually try one of these. But maybe you can find something like it for your printer.

Just a thought.

- Digital Prophet -

[SWPhotoImaging]

Actually, I am not interested in swapping cartridges in my main printer every time I want to print B&W. I am more interested in deciding what make/model of printer to acquire and set up with a set of B&W cartridges such as these:

http://www.silverprint.co.uk/inkj19.html

I was just wondering if anyone here is doing so and can make recomendations.

[yallcome]

I just bought an Epson C84 for use strictly with B&W. It cost me about $90 and I get to use the MIS quadtone inks which replace the four normal cartridges in the printer. So you get Black and several shades of gray to go in the ink slots.
Info here:
http://www.inksupply.com/index.cfm?source=html/utez.html

Still learning a lot about it, but it does allow for a much fuller use of interim grays, etc, since it's got four different tones in it instead one only one. Check it out.

I"m considering going all the way and getting the continuous feed unit for this printer.

[SWPhotoImaging]

Thank you for the feedback.

[gmitchel]

I use ImagePrint Lite with an Epson 2200 printer for all of my printing. It's a RIP.

It provides absolutely neutral B&W tones, unless you choose to add a tone. Bronzing and metamerism are almost nonexistent. You also get access to a great set of printer paper profiles.

Here's a link to my review:

http://www.thelightsrightstudio.com/DigitalDarkroom/Reviews/ImagePrintLite.pdf

Cheers,

Mitch

[mwinog2777]

Canon i950 is giving me great results, particulary using duotones.

[gmitchel]

Canon i950 is giving me great results, particulary using duotones.

Are you . . .

(1) Using a special quadtone ink set and printer driver,

or

(2) Separating the duotone/tritone/quadtone channels into separate files and printing your image in multiple passes?

If not, then you are not printing a true duotone, even if you use Image|Mode|Duotone mode for your images. You are printing a pseudo-duotone.

Your duotone image will get converted to RGB before it is sent to the printer. The printer driver will do its operations on the RGB image. The OEM drivers for most of the desktop inkjet photo printers use a variant of CMYK. So, there will be another conversion from RGB to something else. The Epson 2200, for example, uses CcMmYKk.

Because you only have one or two colors of black/gray ink in your OEM cartridge, any other tones are being generated with various combinations of OEM inks. That's definitely not a duotone and a big invitation for metamerism.

To be a duotone, your image would have to use tone curves for two of the OEM inks, use a thrid-party inkset and driver, or create separations for each duotone channel.

The third option requires a printer with enough registration accuracy for multi-pass printing and sufficient drying time between passes.

Duotones are traditionally an expensive printing process, because they require more plates and setups. Well, a true duotone, tritone, or quadtone on an inkjet printer is also a real pain. You either need to dedicate a printer to quadtone inks, waste a lot of ink cleaning lines as you go back and forth, or suffer the hassles of multi-pass printing.

Believe me, I considered the hassles of quadtone inksets and I tried black-only printing. The best solution for B&W prints with a desktop inkjet printer, IMHO, is a RIP.

You get so many features besides neutral B&W prints with ImagePrint Lite. You can accurately place images on a page and have them print that way. (No more frogging around with image borders.) You get an excellent set of profiles, with separate profiles for gray tones under various light. The images print faster and completely in the background. (You can even queue them to print later.) You can quickly add a slight tint in a controlled way to warm/cool the image or add a mossy/mauve cast. Even color prints show significant improvements, since the RIP is a printer driver with a wider gamut than the OEM printer drivers from Epson, etc.

Cheers,

Mitch

[Ken Fong]

I do occasional 'B&W' printing on the Epson 2200 on Epson Velvet paper...it's great; however, it is not 'true' B&W because it is a tri or quadtone setup (resulting in a sepia look). A truly B&W print looks too cold for me.

I did look into the piezography setup (on an Epson 1280) before purchasing the Epson 2200 without piezography. Piezography is truly amazing and I can only begin to appreciate what it offers...but given my level of patience (in terms of setup and maintenance), the 2200 was the more practical solution. I only need to swap out the 'photo black' cartridge to 'matte black' when printing on velvet. I also don't have a lot of desktop space (we converted our home office into a bedroom), so I had to consolidate my B&W and color printing into one printer.

[htbyron]

Actually, I am not interested in swapping cartridges in my main printer every time I want to print B&W.

There is no swapping necessary with the HP 7960. It uses three cartidges for photo printing (total of 8 inks; don't ask me where the 9th one goes), and you leave the photo gray in all the time (unless you are printing text only, but that's not what you get this printer for if you read this forum, is it?). When printing color, it uses all 8 inks; when printing B/W, it uses the 3 grayscale inks in the "59" cartiridge. Results are phenomenal, at a substantially lower price than piezography/Cone systems, although those apparently give pleasure to control freaks :P

I am more interested in deciding what make/model of printer to acquire and set up with a set of B&W cartridges such as these:

http://www.silverprint.co.uk/inkj19.html

I was just wondering if anyone here is doing so and can make recomendations.

Sorry, I can't give advice on this topic as I decided to go the lazy route & get the HP, but try some searches here and at Fm, as I have seen some threads addressing this question.

Good luck.
Tom

[mwinog2777]

Mitch,

Yes, I am printing pseudo-duotones. With the expert advice you have given me previously, http://www.thelightsright.com/DigitalDarkroom/Tutorials/Duotones.pdf, I use a curves adjustment layer, and then printer color management to get a more than acceptable pseudo-duotones. I would recommend that others go to your tutorial on duotones. Printing is the greatest challenge. Its somewhat unpredictable, but using your techniques I usually obtain a very good picture.

Are they as good as ImagePrint? Doubt it, but with trial/error, I enjoy my prints.

[gmitchel]

Oh, I'm not suggesting you can get prints that make you and others happy. Nothing of that sort was implied at all.

Please don't feel I was slighting your prints in any way.

I just wanted to amke sure that everyone understands that Image|Mode|Duotone does not give you a duotone when you print on a desktop inkjet printer, unless you something like a quadtone ink solution.

I'll bet 99% of the people out there believe they are printing a duotone. ;)

I switched to ImagePrint for two reasons only. I wanted neutral B&W prints with my Epson 2200 printer and I was not happy with the metamerism for B&W prints. IP Lite fixed both issues for me, and I could use OEM inks.

IP Lite is *VERY* expensive. It cost me 2/3 the price of my Epson 2200 printer.

Cheers,

Mitch

[mwinog2777]

Now we can get to the question at hand.

I agree with my mentor in the duotone business, gmitchel, that I am doing pseudo-duotones. I also am keenly aware that I cannot do neutral B&W as well as I could with IP Lite.

BUT, the striking advantage of doing pseudo-duotones is that they come out looking like duotones with the right combination of adjustments, printer management and some trial & error if not perfect the first time. I am just off neutral gray, ever so slightly. Obviously, this is a compensation for the shortcomings Mitch has alluded to.

Has anyone else tried this technique?

[gmitchel]

Do you also notice metamerism? IOW, does the tone of the image change when the light changes.

The OEM driver from Epson uses combinations of CcMmY for many lighter tones that cause the image to look great when you apply a curve and print in your light and then develop a a very noticeable mauve or mossy cast when you take the print into different light.

When you make the images for your own use, you might not notice. If you sell the images, customers will notice right away. The easiest way to test is to print, then look at the image under fluorescent, tungsten, and outdoor lighting. You will almost certainly see big differences.

Cheers,

Mitch