Minolta DSLR w/ anti-shake....opinions???

[roanjohn]

I'm a newbie when it comes to photography. Never had any experience with film SLR's.

How good/popular are the Minolta SLR's?? Are they a reputable company??

Anybody thinking of switching to Minolta when thier DSLR hits the market??

I was looking at thier lens line-up on a B&H catalogue and it doesn't seem to be pretty impressive.............they have some white lenses (I think), much like a Canon L.

Opinions?

http://www.livingroom.org.au/photolog/archives/konica_minolta_dynax_7_digitalmaxxum_7_digital.php

Ro1

[CyberDyneSystems]

I have not tried this camera.. but I love the idea.

Minolta is a very good camera maker.. second only to Canon and Nikon. But the optics choices are far fewer... and may in fact be pricier?

I certainly can't see ANY compellig reason to switch to Minolta though. Most Minolta owners (35mm) got more options for less money in there 35mm bodies.. this was the major selling point. But as far as DSLRs go.. they are way behind the pack. The IS function though very promising is not yet proven,. where as Canon has had IS for years.

I suspect the first bunch of Minolta DSLRs will be sold to Minolta lens and 35mm owners who have waited patiently. Minolta hasn't had one for about 5 years and the last one sold for about $5,000.00

The next group will be some first time buyers without any investment in lenses.

I hope Minolta prices it competitively... that way we'll all benifit :)

[DReb-MO]

I don't think Minolta has a digital SLR. I also think the anti shake is only available on the replacement for the Dimage 7 series of cameras, A2 I think is the new model. It's similar to Canon IS.

[roanjohn]

But the optics choices are far fewer... and may in fact be pricier?

YES!!!

70-200 f2.8 (NO IS!!!) $1899.95!!! B&H price.

No thanks!!!

Ro1

[roanjohn]

I don't think Minolta has a digital SLR. I also think the anti shake is only available on the replacement for the Dimage 7 series of cameras, A2 I think is the new model. It's similar to Canon IS.

They're introducing one this upcoming fall (I think). And thier "catch" is that IS will be built in the body.........so all your lenses suddenly will have IS capabilities.

...............a really good idea I think.....................

Ro1

[scottbergerphoto]

I'm a newbie when it comes to photography. Never had any experience with film SLR's.

How good/popular are the Minolta SLR's?? Are they a reputable company??

Anybody thinking of switching to Minolta when thier DSLR hits the market??

I was looking at thier lens line-up on a B&H catalogue and it doesn't seem to be pretty impressive.............they have some white lenses (I think), much like a Canon L.

Opinions?

http://www.livingroom.org.au/photolog/archives/konica_minolta_dynax_7_digitalmaxxum_7_digital.php

Ro1
You talk about cameras like peanut butter. You don't change camera brands because someone came out with a new and improved one unless it's a fundamentally changed and superior product that your manufacturer won't ever be able to make. When you choose a Camera brand you are choosing not just a camera body, but lenses, flash equipment, etc.
Scott

[roanjohn]

You talk about cameras like peanut butter. You don't change camera brands because someone came out with a new and improved one unless it's a fundamentally changed and superior product that your manufacturer won't ever be able to make. When you choose a Camera brand you are choosing not just a camera body, but lenses, flash equipment, etc.
Scott

:shock:

HUH?? Peanut butter?? Who said anything about changing??

I'm just looking for opinons.......more specifically from Minolta SLR film users.

And yes, I think that a built-in anti-shake DSLR body is something Canon/Nikon will not implement anytime soon.........without affecting sales on thier popular IS/VR lenses.

Ro1

[Mark Kemp]

Isn't the Minolta anti shake on the Dimages a digital system rather than optical like Canon's. i.e The system senses the shake and compensates in software rather than hardware in the lens. Could be wrong its only something I think I read or heard somewhere. Anybody know? If it is true anybody know if its better or worse than the optical way?

[Mthorpe_Davies]

But the optics choices are far fewer... and may in fact be pricier?

YES!!!

70-200 f2.8 (NO IS!!!) $1899.95!!! B&H price.

No thanks!!!

Ro1

It doesn't need IS as the camera body it's designed to fit on has IS already, so why add a feature that isn't needed.

I have to say it I preferred my Minolta film bodies to the crap canon Eos 30n that I use today, the Minolta lense are every bt as good as canon and nikon and they have a huge range of glass, I think have a larger range than Nikon.

[Mthorpe_Davies]

Isn't the Minolta anti shake on the Dimages a digital system rather than optical like Canon's. i.e The system senses the shake and compensates in software rather than hardware in the lens. Could be wrong its only something I think I read or heard somewhere. Anybody know? If it is true anybody know if its better or worse than the optical way?

No it isn't software magic, the anti shake mechanism moves the chip in the way that canon/nikon moves an element.

[Jesper]

You talk about cameras like peanut butter. You don't change camera brands because someone came out with a new and improved one unless it's a fundamentally changed and superior product that your manufacturer won't ever be able to make. When you choose a Camera brand you are choosing not just a camera body, but lenses, flash equipment, etc.
Scott

:shock:

HUH?? Peanut butter?? Who said anything about changing??

You did, in your initial post! :roll:

Anybody thinking of switching to Minolta when thier DSLR hits the market??

I used to have a Minolta 505si Super. It's about the same kind of camera as a Canon Rebel film camera. I don't know how it is now, but Minolta's more expensive SLRs had some nice features, like the ability to remember the exposure settings and other data for each frame.

I switched to Canon, sold my Minolta stuff and bought an EOS 30 (Elan 7E). I knew I wanted a DSLR sometime later, and Canon is the #1 in DSLRs. So a few months later I bought a 10D.

I'm definitely not going to switch back to Konica Minolta, not only because I've now invested in Canon lenses etc., but also because Konica Minolta is lagging years behind Canon and Nikon, and it's not such a big company, which means they'll have much less budget for research and development than the big ones, which means I expect they'll not be as innovative as the big ones - although AS (Anti-Shake) in the body is an interesting idea, and I'm interested in seeing how well this is going to work in their first DSLR.

[roanjohn]

[quote=scottbergerphoto]You talk about cameras like peanut butter. You don't change camera brands because someone came out with a new and improved one unless it's a fundamentally changed and superior product that your manufacturer won't ever be able to make. When you choose a Camera brand you are choosing not just a camera body, but lenses, flash equipment, etc.
Scott

:shock:

HUH?? Peanut butter?? Who said anything about changing??

You did, in your initial post! :roll:

Anybody thinking of switching to Minolta when thier DSLR hits the market??

:oops:

I just asked a general question.........is all.
..............I didn't encourage, nor discourage it................
.........and I hope I didn't make it sound like I change, or people change, camera everytime something new enters in the market.............
.
.
.
.
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And from Mthorpes post, it seems that Minolta could be a major player in the DSLR market once this camera hits the stores.

Ro1

[boone]

I shot with a Minolta Maxxum film system for years. I found it to be competent equipment. Their wireless flash system is cool, and I think it was around before Canon/Nikon had anything like it.

For a long time there was nothing Canon or Nikon had that gave me a reason to switch. But as I found myself using my Canon G1 more than my Maxxum, I started to want a digital SLR. Minolta didn't have anything to fit the bill. I finally heard about the D7 in the spring, but I didn't want to wait even longer for something that won't be out until this fall.

So I bought a Digital Rebel, and I'm now in the process of rebuilding my gear collection. My Maxxum 600si and lenses are currently for sale if anyone wants to jump the other way. :)

[Mthorpe_Davies]

but also because Konica Minolta is lagging years behind Canon and Nikon, and it's not such a big company, which means they'll have much less budget for research and development than the big ones, which means I expect they'll not be as innovative as the big ones - although AS (Anti-Shake) in the body is an interesting idea, and I'm interested in seeing how well this is going to work in their first DSLR.

Ah think again whilst Konica Minolta isn't as large a company as canon, they are considerably bigger than Nikon. I believe they will become a major in time.

[ron chappel]

Minolta have allways tended to have very good consumer lenses .From what i hear their best lenses are about as good as the best from canon/nikon etc.The drawback is price.Both minolta and pentax will generally have higher lens prices than the canon and nikon(!) equivilants.

There are still advantages though.If you only want good consumer grade lenses then they tend to sell 2nd hand for less than the cheaper canons!

Their better camera models have allways been good to excellent.
The 9 series have allways pushed the boundaries for shutter speeds,etc while the recent few years 7 series have been (in my opinion) best in class with some very nice features. :D

By the way-minolta's camera/lens interface is extremely similar to canon's in that you can use manual focus lenses via adapters and the camera will still meter
:) :) sweet

Would i consider changing for the sake of image stabilization?
If i knew canon were never going to offer the same feature i sure would!
Imagine using ANY lens as an IS lens!!!! 50/1.7 image stabilized lens anyone :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

[Stapler123]

The first slr that I used was a old Minolta srTmc-II that my uncle lent me for a photography class I took 2 years ago. I don't know what the camera's track record is, but I love the thing. Mostly I like the old build quality (all metal) and the brick sort of look. In fact I'm torn between buying a new rebel film camera, or one of these on ebay and just find old lenses.

Anwho I guess I'm saying if minolta builds "em" like they used to, which they may or may not, It may be a pretty nice camera.


actually it was my first Manual slr, I have a canon t50 that has been in t he family and I swear the shutter will randomly implode on itself, and some pentax of my grandpa's which only has P mode to match the aperature, and bulb.

[Mark Kemp]

Isn't the Minolta anti shake on the Dimages a digital system rather than optical like Canon's. i.e The system senses the shake and compensates in software rather than hardware in the lens. Could be wrong its only something I think I read or heard somewhere. Anybody know? If it is true anybody know if its better or worse than the optical way?

No it isn't software magic, the anti shake mechanism moves the chip in the way that canon/nikon moves an element.

OK, thanks - I guess I had rembered or heard it wrong. Of course now im wondering whether moving the sensor or an element in the lens is better? :D Wouldn't the sensor have to move in an arc to keep the focus rather than pivot around its centre, that sounds tricky :?:

[nosquare2003]

Minolta is a very good camera maker.. second only to Canon and Nikon.

You miss out some other brands. For 35mm format, there are at least Leica, Contax and Pentax which are very good.

I would say, Minolta is the popular brand (35mm format)...second only to Canon and Nikon.

[Tom W]

Isn't the Minolta anti shake on the Dimages a digital system rather than optical like Canon's. i.e The system senses the shake and compensates in software rather than hardware in the lens. Could be wrong its only something I think I read or heard somewhere. Anybody know? If it is true anybody know if its better or worse than the optical way?

No it isn't software magic, the anti shake mechanism moves the chip in the way that canon/nikon moves an element.

OK, thanks - I guess I had rembered or heard it wrong. Of course now im wondering whether moving the sensor or an element in the lens is better? :D Wouldn't the sensor have to move in an arc to keep the focus rather than pivot around its centre, that sounds tricky :?:

I think that the lens is corrected for a flat surface. Nevertheless, the sensor has to have some leeway on either side of the image square to allow for movement, so it has to have more pixels than it is using at any given time.

I would also think that a moving sensor would have to put repetitive stress on the electrical connecting ribbons or cables, unless there's a lot of built-in slack.

Plus, the point where the least amount of movement would be necessary to produce the greatest effect would need to be near the center of the lens. The larger the movement, the faster it must move and the greater the energy necessary to operate the mechanism (granted, this might be offset by the possibility that the sensor is lighter than a particular lens element).

[Mark Kemp]

Ok my head hurts now - I think you are right closer to the lens = less movement but it sounds an interesting mechanism, hope they publish details some time.

[Tom W]

Actually, I kind-of hope that it works well, but I do have concerns as indicated in my last post. Time will tell, of course.

[KennyG]

Unless someone regards Canon and Nikon as being identical firsts, how can Minolta be second to both? Sorry, I couldn't resist.

In-camera stabilization can only be a compromise at best. IS in a lens is optomised for that lens, whereas in the camera it is trying to do its best for all focal lengths and degrees of movement. I prefer the individual lens approach.

Minolta is now a minor player in the game and can't afford the R&D or take advantage of the savings from large volume manufacture. They will end up like a lot of the smaller outfits, outsourcing manufacturing for now and then at some point re-badging Taiwanese designed off-the-shelf bodies and lenses. It isn't a horse I would back.

Even Leica are in financial difficulties, hoping their third party relationships will breathe life into the brand. Looks like survival of the fittest and biggest.

[CyberDyneSystems]

I was diplomatically putting Canon and Nikon on equal terms.. :roll: :lol:

Actually.. I should have specified where 35mm systems are concerned.. clearly NOT where Digital is concerned... but as umpopular as this may seem on this forum.. I personally feel that as far as 35mm was concerned the choice between Canon and Nikon was a lot harder to call. Both had there advantages and disadvantages.. whoch I feel balanced out to near perfect equality. The perfect 35mm would be an F5 with Canopn's L lineup! :) IMHO

I like pentax too.. but Minolta has consistently offered in the Maxxum line the most bang for your buck on a body to body comparison. (if you compare specs and numbers) An I'm quite confident there systems do outsell Pentax, Contax and Leica.

Again.. as to the Onboard IS... The jury will be out as to how effective it can be untill there are review copies avaible. The prospect is definately fascinating to me.

[GenEOS]

I have had the pleasure of watching a good friend of mine swap from Minolta film bodies to Canon Digital. He was heavily invested in Minolta glass and could not wait any longer for Minolta to get into the game. Their only attempt at a digital SLR is ancient in today's digital world. They have yet to dive into the Digital SLR world and put cameras in the hands of their loyalists.

This is sad, because Minolta makes some very good point and shoots (with the exception of the Dimage that sucked up AA batteries like water). Their new line-up of point and shoots are very good cameras. But, they are not SLRs and they have a lot of ground to make up to compete with Canon and Nikon.

My friend bought a 10D and I set him up his first day with it, shooting NHRA with a 300 f2.8 IS. Needless to say I ruined him. The next lens he shot with it was a 70-200 f2.8 IS, ruined him again. He had bought the camera without a lens, so by the time he got around to getting a lens, he had already shot the camera with two of the finest work horse lenses Canon makes!!

His impressions vs. the Minolta Maxim film bodies is that the Canon is faster focusing. The lenses are sharper in some cases but equal in others. The IS system works nicely and Minolta did not offer it.

Minolta should get into the game. I think it would help all of us...Canon Nikon and Minolta shooters....
Competition is a good thing...

[Tom W]

Minolta, Pentax, and Leica need to get into the game. Leica, in particular, needs to get away from the nostalgic approach and break some ground for their fine lenses. Even if they have to buy sensors and electronics from Canon!

[Jesper]

Pentax already has a DSLR, the *ist D (http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/specs/Pentax/pentax_istd.asp). Leica also has some digital cameras, such as the Digilux 2 (http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/leicadigilux2/page2.asp), which looks like a vintage camera but is really a small-sensor digital camera. They also have a digital back (http://www.leica-camera.com/produkte/rsystem/digitalmodul/index.html) for their R-system 35mm camera (although it's not entirely clear to me if it's already for sale or not).

Now that I think of it, there is one problem with Minolta's in-body anti-shake mechanism: if only the sensor is moving, you won't see the stabilized image through the viewfinder, like you do with Canon's IS in the lens!

[ron chappel]

Yes,good point jesper

The comment about lens type IS needing less movement is not true.However it must be said that a small lens group will likely be lighter than a sensor which inevitably reduces the overall stabilizing potential (measured in stops)

Another big potential problem is cooling and noise.A sensor NEEDS a certain amount of cooling to give noise free images but having cooling fins or similar on the chip is going to increase it's mass and so further reduce it's stabilizing ability.
Minolta allready have a digicam with IS built in and it has been suggested that it's high'ish noise is because of the sensor being undercooled.

Not sure if this is completely true but i dare say minolta may have some compromises to make.I hope for everyones sake that it works out well

...cause if they succeed then canon and nikon,etc will just have to do the same eventually.
Like i said before,imagine using ANY lens in IS mode :D :D :D :D :D

DSLR prices may have leveled out but there are still exiting developments to come!

[Tom W]

Pentax already has a DSLR, the *ist D (http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/specs/Pentax/pentax_istd.asp). Leica also has some digital cameras, such as the Digilux 2 (http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/leicadigilux2/page2.asp), which looks like a vintage camera but is really a small-sensor digital camera. They also have a digital back (http://www.leica-camera.com/produkte/rsystem/digitalmodul/index.html) for their R-system 35mm camera (although it's not entirely clear to me if it's already for sale or not).

Now that I think of it, there is one problem with Minolta's in-body anti-shake mechanism: if only the sensor is moving, you won't see the stabilized image through the viewfinder, like you do with Canon's IS in the lens!

I know that they are all into digital, but Pentax is still behind the Rebel and Leica just seems to be doing digital for the sake of doing digital so far. The digital back idea has some potential though, but that Digilux seems like a very expensive toy, well made or not.

[MarkH]

But the optics choices are far fewer... and may in fact be pricier?

YES!!!

70-200 f2.8 (NO IS!!!) $1899.95!!! B&H price.

No thanks!!!

Ro1

Doesn't that make it pointless having IS in the body? i.e. the idea in paying more for a body with IS so you don't have to pay for it on each lens.

It seems that it is cheaper to buy Canon and pay for the IS on each lens then to buy the dearer Minolta body and dearer lenses,

Personally I have no interest whatsoever in any D-SLR that has not been released yet, ask me again after I have read at least one review. It is all very well to talk about inovative new features, but until we know how well they work it is hard to have an opinion on how good the features are.

This could be similar to the Foveon sensor used by the Sigma SD-9, interesting idea but the implementation produced nothing special.

Until someone compares a Minolta D-SLR with built in IS with a 70-200 lens to a Canon D-SLR with a 70-200 IS then we wont know whether the idea is a winner or not. My money would be on the Canon system, but we'll see when the Minolta comes out and dpreview get a hold of one.

[Mthorpe_Davies]

[quote]

I know that they are all into digital, but Pentax is still behind the Rebel and Leica just seems to be doing digital for the sake of doing digital so far. The digital back idea has some potential though, but that Digilux seems like a very expensive toy, well made or not.[quote]


I think you had better read some of the reviews on the net, you are dreaming if you think that the rebel is a better camera than the *ist D, the D rebel is a compromise at best and really needs all is featurers unlocking before you could seriously call it a good camera.

With Leica they have there place in the market and do you really believe that they are doing digital for the sake of doing it, look who they have designing the chip for them, that should tell you how seriously they are taking digital.

[Tom W]

I think you had better read some of the reviews on the net, you are dreaming if you think that the rebel is a better camera than the *ist D, the D rebel is a compromise at best and really needs all is featurers unlocking before you could seriously call it a good camera.

I've read them - the *ist isn't bad, but it doesn't focus in low light, and it doesn't share the low noise and color accuracy of the Rebel. Nor do they use Canon lenses.

With Leica they have there place in the market and do you really believe that they are doing digital for the sake of doing it, look who they have designing the chip for them, that should tell you how seriously they are taking digital.

I'll let you know when they actually produce something. The digilux with its 2/3" sensor is not going to cut it. Their lenses are great and deserve the best - I hope they get it.

[roanjohn]

The fact that Minolta entered the DSLR market sooo late has probably lost them a lot of loyal "film SLR" users. But even given with that fact, Minolta has made some very good prosumer models w/ built in stabilizers, so technology wise, they are really not that far behind. The implementation of IS in thier A series camera has been very well received (from the reviews I've read)..............so its just a matter of finalizing a sensor that can produce accurate colors, low noise and increased dynamic range.

As somebody said, no judgements can be passed until the reviews are in, and I agree. So I guess we'll just have to wait if Minolta/Konica can pull something out of its hat.

Ro1

[Jesper]

...Anybody thinking of switching to Minolta when thier DSLR hits the market??

I was looking at thier lens line-up on a B&H catalogue and it doesn't seem to be pretty impressive.............they have some white lenses (I think), much like a Canon L.

Opinions?

Have you seen the prices of their new white lenses? http://www.popphoto.com/article.asp?section_id=2&article_id=815

The Minolta 70-200 f/2.8 costs $ 3,100 !!! That's almost three times as expensive as the Canon EF 70-200 f/2.8 (non-IS) !! :shock: You could buy a 10D + EF 70-200 f/2.8 for the price of the Minolta lens.

[Mthorpe_Davies]

...Anybody thinking of switching to Minolta when thier DSLR hits the market??

Opinions?

Have you seen the prices of their new white lenses? http://www.popphoto.com/article.asp?section_id=2&article_id=815

The Minolta 70-200 f/2.8 costs $ 3,100 !!! That's almost three times as expensive as the Canon EF 70-200 f/2.8 (non-IS) !! :shock: You could buy a 10D + EF 70-200 f/2.8 for the price of the Minolta lens.

Which leads to the logical conclusion that if Minolta are going to the expense of designing and producing pro spec glass then a pro spec digital body (9D) has to be coming.

[theoldmoose]

The most interesting factoid (IMO) that I turned up recently, is that Konica Minolta and Nikon are owned by the same parent company, JEL.

JEL is a large, multi-national conglomerate that owns such disparate brands as Gillete, etc.

The R&D (and investment) problem here may stem completely from being owned by a bunch of bean-counters that have no particular interest in pushing the state of the photography art any further than what will keep a particular subsidiary from being a drain on the bottom line.

In any event, we may find that Minolta's experiment with putting IS into the bodies may very well fare about as well as Nikon's dumb decision to stick with putting the AF motor in their bodies. Even though Canon took a lot of heat when they scrapped the FD interface, and went with their new EOS/EF lines of bodies and lenses, it ultimately proved to be the most flexible system.

Consider this: When Canon improves their IS and/or AF systems, they can introduce it immediately in newer, improved lens lineups. They have already gone through a couple of generations each of IS/AF system improvements, but *all* EF lenses work on *all* EOS bodies, with very few exceptions. A photographer can then take advantage of these advances as they acquire new lenses, without obsoleting bodies or lenses. On the other hand, consider the mess in Nikon's lineup, where supposedly all Nikon glass, back to manual focus, is compatible with all bodies -- *NOT*. If you believe that, I have a bridge in Brooklyn to sell you.

This equation looks even better when Canon can produce IS AF lenses for about the same price as everyone else'e non-IS lenses.

[Mthorpe_Davies]

The most interesting factoid (IMO) that I turned up recently, is that Konica Minolta and Nikon are owned by the same parent company, JEL.

JEL is a large, multi-national conglomerate that owns such disparate brands as Gillete, etc.


JEL are a distrubutor they do not own the Nikon, Konica-Minolta or Gillete brands they distribut them throughout South East Asia and emerging markets.

From the Jel website

Who we are:

We are principally engaged in the trading and distribution of photographic products and fast-moving consumer goods in emerging markets of Indo-China, Central Asia, certain countries/regions in Africa and Latin American.

Our markets of Indo-China comprise Vietnam, Cambodia, Laos and Myanmar while our markets of Central Asia are Kazakhstan, Uzbekistan, Turkmenistan, Tajikistan and Kyrgyzstan. We also trade in these products as well as consumer electronic products in various countries in Africa as well as other regions such as Latin American, Eastern Europe, Hong Kong and UAE.

We have distributorship agreements with reputable companies manufacturing products of established brands such as Nikon, Konica, Polaroid, Metz, Duracell, Gillette and Oral-B. Our Customers include importers, sub-distributors, wholesalers, retailers and mobile vendors.

[Penguin_101_1]

I talked with a guy at the local camera store and he said that I has been put off a lot but it will be very good. He guessed that it would be about $1500. I will be looking at it when it comes out because I have had good luck with the X-700.