I Own 2 Photos & My "Boss" Wants To Use Them In A Book

[Strnge]

I am Deputy Sheriff and I recently Purchased 2 Separate Original Photos from 1883 of 2 Deputies. Both Photos are Formal Shots.

I am going to meet with the head of my Department "The Sheriff" on Wed. When I told him the other day about the photos, he said he probably is going to want to use the photos in a book he is puting together.

He has already told me that he has nothing prior to the 1930's from our Department.

So how do I put a value of these photos?

I own the orginal "cabinet card" photos, so this makes me own the copyrights correct?

I also own some photos which were submitted to the local news paper and were sold. Can I also use them if he wants them? These are not anywhere as rare as the 2 from 1883.

Please help me before I have my meeting.

Mike

[John Mireles]

You don't own the copyright to these images. US Copyright law provides that copyright to an image may be held for 70 years after the death of the copyright holder. After that time, the copyright is transferred to the public domain. Thus, anyone has the right to reproduce or profit from these images.

You do however own the physical prints. You can charge for the ability of people to reproduce those prints. Since the actual copyright holder is long deceased - most likely for more than 70 years now - you don't have to worry about any legal restrictions. You don't have any copyright privileges with respect to the prints - it's more of charging for access. It's kind of like if you owned the road to the grand canyon, you could charge people a toll for driving along the road even though the grand canyon is owned by the government. Of course, if someone else made another road, you might be out of luck.

As far as putting a value to any images, it just depends upon how rare these images are and how much someone is willing to pay for them. The industry standard for establishing stock photo pricing is www.fotoquote.com. If your images are highly unique, you could probably get the high end or more of the fotoquote range. If they're easily replaceable, you may get less. To be able to quote a price, you first need to know how they'll be used, the size of the print run and the size and placement of the image. Then you can plug that information into fotoquote to help you come up with a range.

Good luck!

John

[NZDoug]

I think you will alienate your employer and have much to lose.:o
Take care.

[P51Mstg]

Both right.

John really summed up what you had very well. NZDoug put it in real world terms.

In short, you have the pictures, if you don't want them to publish them, its up to you. However, if you want to be working the night shift for the rest of your career without backup, that is possible too.

I think if the Sheriff makes some reasonable offer for the pics, you should let him publish them. I'm sure he'll be greatful in the future for it. More likely than not, these pictures would have limited appeal elsewhere, hence you are probably not going to have too many more chances to sell them.

Mark H

[rp_63]

If this is a "book" for his use or a local charity, i would let him use them for the cost of copying, and request a mention of thanks somewhere in the book. If this is a "book" he intends to publish for his profit, i would charge more. I feel that if he is going to make a profit (or hope to), that he should pay a reasonable fee for access to your copies of the pictures. Yes they may be public domain, but they are your copies and you did pay for them, if he wants access to them he should expect to pay something for them.


Just out of curiosity. Is this a book on the local history of your police department? Sounds like something i would purchase if i lived in the area. I Was born and raised in Elgin, Illinois, and have purchased a few books on the local history of the area. You usually find these in the local museums, i think the author usually gets most of the profit with a portion going to the museum, it's a nice way to help support the museum.

[Strnge]

I was thinking of letting him use the photos for the book, since the book is a history book about our department. I was thinking of only asking that under the two photos it said that the photos are from the personal collection of Deputy Mike (Last Name Here)(Star Number Here) This would permenently etch my name out there, for someone from my department a 100 years from now too see. It is hard to find names and/or anything else from past Deputies.

The book would probably only appeal to current and past employees and maybe not to many other individuals.

As far as rare is concerened, there is nothing the Sheriff has seen prior to the 1930's. He has been searching for 25 years(This is how long he has been Sheriff)

As far as being put on the night shift that would suck. I did nights for 10 years and I have now for 10 years been on days.

[rp_63]

I was thinking of letting him use the photos for the book, since the book is a history book about our department. I was thinking of only asking that under the two photos it said that the photos are from the personal collection of Deputy Mike (Last Name Here)(Star Number Here) This would permenently etch my name out there, for someone from my department a 100 years from now too see. It is hard to find names and/or anything else from past Deputies.

The book would probably only appeal to current and past employees and maybe not to many other individuals.



You would be surprised about the interest of the book, anybody with an interest in local history or police departments would be interested. Books like that are found in local history museums in my area, and are fascinating to read. (for some people anyway):)

[Steve Parr]

I was thinking of letting him use the photos for the book, since the book is a history book about our department. I was thinking of only asking that under the two photos it said that the photos are from the personal collection of Deputy Mike (Last Name Here)(Star Number Here) This would permenently etch my name out there, for someone from my department a 100 years from now too see. It is hard to find names and/or anything else from past Deputies.

I think that would be a perfect way to go...

[WMS]

Asking for credit sounds very reasonable. you also might be surprised at just how much interest there might be in any books on local history.

Wayne

[John Mireles]

In my earlier post, I spelled out the law and the industry standard. All that needs to be weighed against your own personal situation and the use of the images. The way I figure it, if someone is going to make a lot of money by using my images, then I'm going to charge a lot of money. If, on the other hand, there's either not much or no money to be made, then I'll either provide the photos at low cost or for free.

Your solution sounds pretty reasonable to me. You could also structure a license so that it's free if the print run is below a certain amount. If the books sells over that amount, then you receive X amount of money. That way, if the book makes it onto the new york times best seller list, you can be properly compensated. If it sells only a few hundred, it's still no charge to the author. Just a idea to keep this win-win for everyone.

John

[Strnge]

You could also structure a license so that it's free if the print run is below a certain amount. If the books sells over that amount, then you receive X amount of money. That way, if the book makes it onto the new york times best seller list, you can be properly compensated. If it sells only a few hundred, it's still no charge to the author. Just a idea to keep this win-win for everyone.

John


Hmmm....I really like that idea. How would I go about making one?

[John Mireles]

Easy. Just put something down in writing that says you'll permit the use of the image in the book at no charge for up to XXX number of books printed. If the number of books printed exceeds XXX, then your fee is $XXX per every XXX number of books printed. No need to make it too complicated. Basically, you're covering yourself in case it goes big time.

John

[Strnge]

How would I find out how many would be printed? (or were printed at a later date, if it changes)

[johnnybfan]

In my earlier post, I spelled out the law and the industry standard. All that needs to be weighed against your own personal situation and the use of the images. The way I figure it, if someone is going to make a lot of money by using my images, then I'm going to charge a lot of money. If, on the other hand, there's either not much or no money to be made, then I'll either provide the photos at low cost or for free.

Your solution sounds pretty reasonable to me. You could also structure a license so that it's free if the print run is below a certain amount. If the books sells over that amount, then you receive X amount of money. That way, if the book makes it onto the new york times best seller list, you can be properly compensated. If it sells only a few hundred, it's still no charge to the author. Just a idea to keep this win-win for everyone.

John

John sounds as if he's dealt with this kind of stuff before. I think it's a great idea to go with something like this. It's not likely that this book would get to the bestseller list but this is a great way to cya just in case.

[Strnge]

So I had my meeting with the Sheriff. One of my old Captains was there. He is helping the Sheriff with the book.

After the Sheriff said he wanted to use the photos in "HIS" book, I told him I wanted credit under each photo, and I would provide him the photos free of charge for up to 1000 books published. After that I wanted $1 for each photo, for a totoal of $2 for anything above that. This was after he said he wanted to print 800. YOU SHOULD HAVE SEEN MY OLD CAPTAINS FACE!!!!!!! He gasphed and said "We always give credit to everyone who donates thier photos, we do it at the end of the book." "We did it on phamplets we did." I told him, to me the value of the photos was much greater due to thier imposibility of finding others like them, and I wanted credit under the photos plus the $1 per photo after 1000 books printed. I said the Sheriff wants to print 800, but who's to say if every library in the nation doesn't want the book too. I will provide the photos for free up to 1000 books printed since he only wants to print 800. His face was so red from bing pissed, it was funny.

The Sheriff was not pisssed at all. He told me to keep searching for more items from our department and to call him to show him what I found incase he wants to use that too.