Sorry, another 300D vs D70 thread

[Aylwin]

Yeah, another one. No Nikon bashing though please. I honestly want some objective (if possible) feedback. My friend is a first time DSLR (or any SLR) buyer. He comes from long line of Sony point and shooters. Now he just wants to take better photos but has no intention to take this as a serious hobby.

I've been trying to convince him to go for the 300D but the more I study the 2 cameras, I'm not so convinced myself. He takes my opinions into serious consideration and would go for the 300D if I'd give convincing reasons to. I dont' have any. He's going to use the camera as a point and shoot. Later, he'll probably learn some of the more manual controls. However, he's unlikely to buy any extra lens and go crazy (like me :)).

I don't really mean to go into a which is better discussion but I'm asked to give advice and I'd hate for my friend to later regret his purchase. For his particular needs, I think he's better of with the D70. Should he really go for the 300D? If so, why?

[Belmondo]

It all depends on whether or not you feel an obligation to your friend to give him the best advice for the moment, or information that will ultimately be more useful in the long term, and for which he will be thanking you for years to come.

From all I understand, the D70 is a fine camera, and in many respects is probably a better camera than the Rebel (300D). Then again, it should be. It's more expensive, and several months newer. The fact is, most of these differences are relatively inconsequential to the average user.

That having been said, as soon as your friend decides to take his photography to the next level, he will find he's heavily invested in a brand whose lenses are generally not as good as Canon's, and whose high-end DSLR bodies are arguably inferior to Canon's.

Unfortunately there is no clear answer to this, but I will be willing to wager that it won’t take much time for your friend to be quite happy he went with Canon if that’s what you choose to recommend. The risk of regrets over a period of time runs much higher with the Nikon

One important piece of homework you should do is to compare the Canon lens lineup to that of Canon’s. I think you’ll find your eventual answer there.

[Aylwin]

Thanks for the reply!

I have, in fact, asked my friend about his future plans. And I've also explained about Canon having better lenses. I've even given the argument about CMOS sensors having less noise while providing better colors. It doesn't look like he'll be investing much in photography though. His main interest in going DSLR is simply to get better DOF control and better picture quality. This decision is simply based on my photos that he's seen (geez! :oops:). He's very unlikely to get an additional lens or any other accessories. He comes from the consumer P&S school where you buy the camera and that's it. And that's how he's going to use the DSLR... as a P&S.

I'll try to make a clearer case about the advantages of going with Canon and then I'll ask him to decide for himself from there. In the end, I guess he should make his own decision and buy the camera he feels more comfortable with. If he ever decides to take his photography more seriously, chances are he'll sell the D70 and buy a newer/better one (probably even a Canon).

Thanks again for the valuable feedback!

[CyberDyneSystems]

This is what he "thinks" he will do..

...once he gets it and uses it.. all that will most likely change :wink:

[Aylwin]

Well, at least I thought I'd be happy for along time with just the 28-135 IS. Ignorance is bliss! I should've just stayed away from these forums. :)

[Ronin]

Is a DSLR really necessary? I thought the step between a Canon G2 and a 300D was huge...so the step between a Sony disposable and a 300D must be Grand Canyon-esque.

[Persian-Rice]

I have thought about this exact situation in the past.

I mean, if hese not that serious about photography and does not want to get involved in all the extra costs, is a dSLR even necessary?

I don't know if I'm opening a new can of worms or just arguing something that has come up several times. But where do you draw a line for the need of an SLR? In all honesty, if he was my friend, I would not suggest an SLR as a first option.

Maybe have him look at another camera package. A very high end P&S or High end Digital like the G's. IMHO, The G5 is an amazing camera for someone who wants SLR like camera, but doesnt actually need an slr. The G5 is also fairly reasonably priced compared to any slr. What about the s60 or even the s1 IS?

Cheers.

[Aylwin]

He's pretty much set on a DSLR already. I've been trying to convince him since last year. :) I think picture noise (or lack thereof from my 10D) is what did it for him. I explained to him about the sensor size and quality, difference in color reproduction, and the misconception about more megapixels = better quality.

His last P&S was the Sony V1 and going for a G5 isn't exactly a quantum leap. The Pro1 might be a better consideration but then price-wise it's not that far anymore from the 300D. Personally, I can no longer justify to myself a hi-end non-DSLR. To me, the sensor alone makes the difference. As long as price (or size and weight) is not the limiting factor then I see no reason why not to get a DSLR.

[Persian-Rice]

True, but you might as well mention that if he goes with the rebel, he has pretty much no chance of avoiding buying lenses. If he needs to reach out far, he needs a new lens. If he wants to take a good close up, he needs a new lens. If he wants a really sharp images, he needs a new lens. If he wants a wide shot, he needs a new lens.

I doubt he would want to stick with the kit one.................then you also have the whole aperture ordeal. Battery life without a grip can be an issue.

I'm not saying these as negative points, they are positives. I'm just saying that he might be a lot more flexible with a P&S or high end. IMO, for anyone who wants to buy a dslr, add another $600-$800 minimum on top of whatever the price is for the camera to get any real quality production out of the camera. Which in the Rebel range, he might be looking at spending twice as much. The rebel with a kit lens is not only alot more limited then a g5, but it also has poorer optics. At least from what i have seen posted.

[Aylwin]

The rebel with a kit lens is not only alot more limited then a g5, but it also has poorer optics.

That's why he's decided to go with the D70. Yeah, too late. He's just decided. We spent a looong time last night at the camera store. No actual photo or prints to compare. We were just playing around with both cameras. With the kit lens, D70 hands down. The 300D with kit lens simply looked dull through the viewfinder. We then tried the 300D with the 28-135 IS. Better but still a bit dull. We tried several 300D units and they were all the same. Through the viewfinder, the D70 was very much brighter and clearer. Startup time on the D70 was much faster too. Build quality of the D70 appears to be better than the 300D. I think it's because the D70 has a textured plastic finish compared to the smooth plastic finish of the 300D.

True, but you might as well mention that if he goes with the rebel, he has pretty much no chance of avoiding buying lenses.

By getting the D70 he does avoid buying another lens. He's a point and shooter so it doesn't really occur to him that he needs any other lens. If he can't get the shot within the lens' range then he can't get the shot. He has no intentions to mess around with post-processing either so he'll probably hardly ever shoot raw and definitely will never touch Photoshop. The D70 has more agressive in-camera processing which produces sharper pictures with maybe more contrast and saturation. This makes the camera more of a consumer P&S. This is something that we don't want but is actually a big plus for him.

The 300D is of course a great camera but I have come to respect the D70. I think it's an excellent alternative to hi-end consumer and prosumer P&S digitals as long as you use it as such. Personally, I think there's a huge market for this type of camera. I'm sure Canon will come out with something to trump the D70 but until then I believe the Nikon is more attractive to first-time SLR buyers who simply want a better digital P&S. Heck, I even know someone who traded in his 10D for the D70 because he said the D70 produced sharper pictures. :roll:

Battery life without a grip can be an issue.

Actually, I haven't noticed it. I've had the 10D for a year now and never even had an extra battery. I can take all the pictures I want during the day and then at night (back at home or at the hotel) I charge the battery and it's ready again for the next day. I never shoot more than 500 frames in one day and I never spend the night away from electricity. So in my case, no problems.

Having said that though, yesterday I bought Big ED and an extra battery. I just thought it might come in handy.

[MarkH]

He's pretty much set on a DSLR already. I've been trying to convince him since last year. :) I think picture noise (or lack thereof from my 10D) is what did it for him. I explained to him about the sensor size and quality, difference in color reproduction, and the misconception about more megapixels = better quality.

His last P&S was the Sony V1 and going for a G5 isn't exactly a quantum leap. The Pro1 might be a better consideration but then price-wise it's not that far anymore from the 300D. Personally, I can no longer justify to myself a hi-end non-DSLR. To me, the sensor alone makes the difference. As long as price (or size and weight) is not the limiting factor then I see no reason why not to get a DSLR.

For what your friend wants the Pro1 should not be considered.

For low noise the 300D is the best he can get for his money, it will give high quality photos with minimum noise, blowing away any P&S with their small sensors.

For better DoF control any D-SLR will fit the bill. If your friend wants to go for a really shallow DoF then the Canon 50 f1.8 would be good value for money (also good for low light).

It's hard to see your friend really needing any of the features that the D70 wins on, unless he needs the faster image handling for fast action shots, but the 300D will shoot fast enough for at least 4 shots in a row.

Explain that if he wants low noise like your 10D has then he can get a 300D with the same sensor which will cost him less than any other D-SLR on the market.