white balance woes

[suyenfung]

hey there. i've hit a snag in my post workflow and i'm curious if anyone has any suggestions to make this easier. this is somewhat complicated and thus long winded, thanks for your time.

we shoot with three cameras and a variety of lenses (see sig).

we use dim to copy files to computer with a date/time based name - yy.mm.dd_hh.mm.ss.cr2 - this neatly organizes the photos chronologically, but mixes them up camera/lens wise.

we then import into lightroom for processing. so far so good.

i would love to be able to easily batch process the photos, however it doesn't seem to be so simple. i find myself having to manually tweak the white balance of every photo. i really wish i didn't have to do this.

at the beginning of the season, i was under the impression that color temperature was objective, and that the correct white balance for a given setting would be applicable to all photos from that setting, regardless of camera/lens. this doesn't seem to be the case. the correct wb for the 85L for instance, is always too blue/green when applied to the 17-55 and vice versa.

i do believe that this is a lens issue and not a camera issue but i'm not sure. so, my first question is, how much do cameras and/or lenses play a role in the final correct white balance? what is really going on here?

to try and counter this, we started getting whibal shots with each camera/lens and/or doing custom white balances. this has given better results, however it seems, due to the (sometimes wildly) fluctuating available wedding light, that the white balance floats a few hundred degrees and several tint units either way throughout the course of whatever is happening (the ceremony for instance).

i don't know that there is any way around this, and i am willing to accept the fact that manual tweaks are going to be required of each photo, which brings me to my next issue -

as it is, because of the chronological organization, i might have two wide angle shots, followed by a tele, then a wide angle, then three teles and so on. this compunds the problem because i have to manually adjust to several standards, if you will. variable standards no less, and going back and forth between the shots can be confusing and time consuming and just annoying.

is there a way to sort photos in lightroom by lens, camera, creator or focal length or any parameter that would separate the shots? i have used aspect ratio with some success (the rebels and the 30d have different ratios), but this is not a real solution because next year we will most likely be shooting with the same cameras. maybe i am missing something here, but it doesn't seem possible. which would be lame. tell me i am wrong.

so maybe i am blowing this out of proportion or am too picky or am doing something wrong. i don't know. but any tips, tricks, advise or wisdom would be most appreciated, this is my number one post production problem and it's becoming quite the burden. i am very interested to hear how you all handle the tedious task of white balancing your photos.

[ToddziLLa]

Hmmm....

In Lightroom you can tag a photo with one of many colors. Since you have many different settings you have to apply, what you could do is tag similar ones with the same color. Once you are done tagging them by color, you can then view based on that color. Then, you can apply the WB adjustment to the first one, and then copy and paste that adjustment to the rest of them.

Don't know if it will save you a lot of time, but it should help a little.

[RobKirkwood]

Can't answer the specific Lightroom questions as we have it but don't currently use it (intending switching at end of this year).

Ann and I find our workflow is much easier if we set all cameras to a single fixed white balance - we choose daylight, but it doesn't really matter which. While this means that it's unlikely the balance of any particular image will be perfect, at least groups shot in the same area/conditions by different cameras will be off by more or less the same amount - and it then becomes much easier to batch adjust white balance in Adobe Bridge. In effect I've gone back to my old film days by using a fixed WB! :lol:

Rob

[cdifoto]

is there a way to sort photos in lightroom by lens, camera, creator or focal length or any parameter that would separate the shots?

Yes. In the Library Module. On the left. Under Metadata Browser. You'll probably have to scroll down. Alternatively, you can use the arrows next to the EXIF data listed on the bottom right (scroll down again) when you're in the same module with a single image displayed (loupe view).

[steveathome]

Sounds like a simple work flow problem to me.

Why can you not sort files by camera and lens, sync your white balance to similar files (I take it you use a neutral reference in some of your shots), then you can re-sort files chronologically or whatever way suits you?

ps. different lens's will change white balance particularly from different makers.

[suyenfung]

yes i can use the metadata browser or the metadata panel to show me every shot in the library taken with a certain lens, but not every shot in a folder taken with a certain lens.

i guess i could do it this way, but then i have to wade through thousands of shots to find the folder\subfolder i working on.

one should be able to sort by metadata (exif) within a given folder.

color coding only becomes an option if you can sort by metadata, otherwise it just adds a step to the process.

working from a constant white balance i suppose could help, it would at least relieve some of the confusion of all of the different temperature numbers i have to look at.

as far as fundamentally changing the workflow, it's just not an option, at least not as you suggest. we need every filename of every photo we take to be unique, and there is no better way than date/time filenames. this is the first step in the flow, and it should be. i never even see img_xxxx filenames, ever. this allows me to keep an entire wedding in one folder if i want, or separate it in meaningful ways such as - prep, ceremony, formals, reception - and not by camera or by card, etc. this at least doubles the folders you would have to work with. naming the files in this way forces shots taken with different cameras/lenses into being mixed up. thanks for the confirmation on lens affecting wb.

basically the problem is not being able to sort by metadata, within a folder, in lightroom. hmm.

thanks again.

[RobKirkwood]

It's no further help to problems with your current files, but we do things this way...

First we synchronise all cameras to a laptop on the morning of a wedding (this usually keeps them within a second or so throughout the day).

When downloading we use BreezeSys Downloader Pro, and have it set to recognise images by camera serial number. As it downloads it adds a camera identifier based on serial into the filenames which all go into one big folder ...so we automatically get filenames like: 5D1_1235.CR2, 5D2_2345.CR2, 20D1_3546.CR2, etc.. and we then just sort by date/time created. It matters not whether the files are downloaded direct from camera, direct from CF, or via our JoBo Gigaone, the embedded serial number is always recognised and we have no need to worry about conflicting file numbers. (If there's an issue with a camera timing being out, we can easily and quickly use BreezeBrowser to select just those images and adjust the timestamps).

Using this process we get all the images in chronological order, but can immediately identify which camera took a particular image just from looking at the filename.

Rob

[tim]

I correct WB in batches, then tweak it individually for some shots. My workflow's linked from my sig.

[kja]

yes i can use the metadata browser or the metadata panel to show me every shot in the library taken with a certain lens, but not every shot in a folder taken with a certain lens.

one should be able to sort by metadata (exif) within a given folder.


I think you can.

Simply highlight the folder you want and then scroll down to the lens or whatever - ctrl click it...now you should have the folder AND the correct lens (or whatever) chosen and only see the ones that meet both criteria. I just ran a quick test and you can choose more than two criteria so you could even do folder, lens and aperture etc...

[suyenfung]

whoa you're right!!!! i never thought to do that because the interface makes those sections feel separate! i just tried it and it works! awesome, that is such a huge help. owe you one!