Draggin the shutter at the ceromony?

[Scott6]

When shooting a indoor wedding and flash is allowed, how often do you drag the shutter? I have a wedding coming up that I can use flash all I want. but its in a church, with wood walls and a very high vaulted roof that is also wood. I have already been in it to take some sample shots, and bounce flash is not working too well.

I have a and a 24mm f1.4 I'm going to use to get the natural light shots on the wide side and a 70-200 f2.8L IS. The light at the altar is pretty good, so garbing the portrait shots will be a breeze with no flash. But for the not so wide, not so close shots like walking do the isle.. my 24-70 f2.8L is gonna need to flash help.

From my trip to the church, with just my 27-70 f2.8 on hand. I needed ISO640, f2.8, 1/30-1/50 to get the lighting right.

[Scott6]

I think I would prefer, like ISO200, and a little shutter drag to a faster shutter and noisy high ISO images..

I swear my 30d has more noise than others do. One day I will get ym 5d.. its like my 30d sensor is a "bad copy!"

[cosworth]

Shoot M, ISO 1600, wider than f/4 and bounce ETTL flash off anything you can. White shirts, refridgerators, bridesmaids. Anything that reflects usable light.

[cdifoto]

Lumiquest Pro-Max or similar should help. It'll toss more light forward than up, providing softer light than direct flash but not wasting it by trying to bounce it off the far-too-high-to-be-effective ceiling.

[cosworth]

I swear my 30d has more noise than others do. One day I will get ym 5d.. its like my 30d sensor is a "bad copy!"


You're not exposing correctly I bet. Do a search here for "shoot to the right".

[notapro]

Shoot M

You should just put that in your signature. I think every post you write has that in it! :D

[picturecrazy]

I don't do drag in ceremonies. (that sounds bad)

Ceremonies are very slow moving, you can usually get away with shutter speeds in the range of 1/10 and still be very sharp. IS is your friend, if not, then a tripod. So that means you can get away with available light and no flash.

If you must flash, then I would just use it for a little bit of fill, but keep the shutter speed higher to keep camera shake out. shutter draggs photos with motion blurred backgrounds don't work very well for still subjects... it's better for conveying a dynamic subject and movement. It has it's place during the recessional, but for the rest.... I dunno. Of course you can start up your own style and have motion blur in all your ceremony shots and call it art. :)

[Big Mike]

My last wedding, I tried dragging the shutter for the ceremony too often...and ended up with more blurry photos that I would have liked. Remember that when you drag the shutter, you get more ambient exposure of the subjects...and at slow speeds, the ambient exposure is likely to be blurry from either camera or subject movement. With flash, you can end up with ghosting.

It's all dependant on the lighting...the more light, the more ambient exposure you will get. If there is enough ambient to use a faster speed, then you are OK. Or if there is so little light, that the flashed exposure will be dominant (no ghosting), then that's OK as well.

[Scott6]

So I should shoot for exposing the room correctly with like ISO 400-800, and 1/30 shutter. Then use a bit of fill for my subject.

Looks like IS will be my friend this round

[cosworth]

You should just put that in your signature. I think every post you write has that in it! :D

I worked at a Club Med as a photographer for 6 months. I shot at night with a 1Ds Mk.I that maxed at ISO1250.

I learned really fast how to make and lose money. M makes money in low light.

[Grace]

I worked at a Club Med as a photographer for 6 months. I shot at night with a 1Ds Mk.I that maxed at ISO1250.

I learned really fast how to make and lose money. M makes money in low light.


Such a true statement! I was picked on by our very own Dwight and Taygull shooting my first concert ( I know, what a treat for me to shoot with two very established pros on my first outing!!!) - they were all about AV...I said I just felt I nailed exposure better with M....guess who both shoot M now...

Go ahead guys - send me some MONEY! :)

(for those that don't know..concert and performance photography has hands down the worst lighting situations of any event!!!)

[Scott6]

I guess I have more reading do do. I dont under stand shooting to the right.

[notapro]

I worked at a Club Med as a photographer for 6 months. I shot at night with a 1Ds Mk.I that maxed at ISO1250.

I learned really fast how to make and lose money. M makes money in low light.

I obviously have little experience, but I agree. And actually it was you who first convinced me to go M so I didn't mean it as a dig or anything. I do use Av a lot, but in tricky situations or if I'm being particular, I use M. Partly because I always screw up the exposure lock.

[cdifoto]

M doesn't make money anymore than having a 580EX (vs a Sigma Super or 540EX) makes money. Every mode on that dial (or LCD in the case of the 1 series) is just one of several methods of getting to the same result.

[Big Mike]

I use M for most shots with flash...certainly the best way to get predictable results.

[cosworth]

M doesn't make money anymore than having a 580EX (vs a Sigma Super or 540EX) makes money. Every mode on that dial (or LCD in the case of the 1 series) is just one of several methods of getting to the same result.

When I shoot with a flash, AV and TV don't do what I need. So no, I can't get the same results. I know what I'm shooting, the camera doesn't.
You can't successfuly shoot M at night without having a good understanding of ETTL. You can shoot in AT/TV with ETTL but you won't get the same results.

[Scott6]

yea, im doing all this reading to try to improve my pasttime, and im just getting confused..

I need to just take a breath, put it in M, keep my iso low and keep my speedlight on and do it my way... I don't know about that shoot to the right madness. I just tested it, and to me its no more than a confusing way to say, over expose my image and fix it in PP. My goal is to do as little PP as posible, I want my RAW files to only need a little sharpness, and a correcy WB then there done.

Dont get me wrong, I like PP, its fun,and i enjoy altering images to change to mood or effects, but for the most part I want my images to come out of the camera good.

[cosworth]

Scott, have a good read here on exposure:

http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?t=89123&highlight=exposure+crutch

[cdifoto]

When I shoot with a flash, AV and TV don't do what I need. So no, I can't get the same results. I know what I'm shooting, the camera doesn't.
You can't successfuly shoot M at night without having a good understanding of ETTL. You can shoot in AT/TV with ETTL but you won't get the same results.

Sure you can...with Exposure Compensation. Not that I do though. M is easier. :lol:

[sam0329]

To be honest I rather have a little noisy pics than lots of burry photos. Nosie is not really a big concern for me. I always shoot M mode in church 1/60 ISO 800 to ISO 1600 depends on the light. But when do formal and signing paper stuff I do use flash 1/60 ISO 400.

[Scott6]

What about using the different metering modes? I change those depending on what im shooting. If im trying to use all natural light that is dark just about everywhere, i generally use spot metering, and meter to my subject. Sometime this blows out the background.. not cool! So ill drop the EC -1 or -1.5 and fill my subject in with flash.

I like Evaluative for fill flash, because it dose a good job at metering the background for proper exposer then then fill my subject with flash. Allthough, sometime my background needs too much expouser, so once the ISO is at 400-640, if the shutter needed is less than 1/40, I tend to just let it be a bit dark...


I think its funny how much spot metering (or diffrent metering modes in general) changes the dynamics so shooting, yet its left out of so many conversations, and "how to/ guides"

[megansmom]

I agree that dragging the shutter during the ceremony isn't such a great idea... I only like to drag the shutter during the reception with dancing images. Have you considered a bounce card? I know it's tacky, but I usually just use an index card that I rubberband to the flash.

[cdifoto]

Depends how long you drag the shutter.

[Scott6]

Depends how long you drag the shutter.

thats what I was thinking. After re-reading this thread a few time and the links people posted on it, im thinking people are thinkin im talking about extreme dragging.. like 1/4s... To me draping the shutter is anything sloe that I would normally be able to hand hold.

so 1/20, with flash.. I have been testing it indoors at home and it seems to work well, especially with my omnibounce.

[david lee]

So I should shoot for exposing the room correctly with like ISO 400-800, and 1/30 shutter. Then use a bit of fill for my subject.

Looks like IS will be my friend this round

IS is great for the interiors of dimly lit churches.
I prefer to shoot M with flash indoors but I suppose when shooting without flash it depends on what you want from the shot.

If you wanted to eliminate blur I would probably set the camera to TV mode and set say 200/sec (depending on what lens you use of course)
Then I would adjust the ISO to balance out the Aperture.

e.g set shutter speed to 200/sec or faster to gaurantee stopage of subject blur. That would likely make the camera go for a wide aperture "Wider than f2.8" which is impossible and would also underexpose the image so you adjust the ISO to a higher setting untill the aperture is acceptable.

This way you should always have a shutter speed that captures "sharp motion stopping images". for example if you shot into a DARK corner of the room with TV mode 200/sec @ ISO 1600, you may have an aperture of say f2.8

But if you turned around and started shooting and the room was lighter, you might have a setting of TV mode 200/sec @ ISO 1600, but this time the aperture could be f5.6 or smaller.
Both shots would be fine because the shutter speed would be fixed to reduce motion blur. It would be the aperture that changed. and subsequently the DOF.

If DOF was your primary concern then use AV
Whatever you use, AV or TV, you must use ISO to complete the "Tri-angle" so to speak.

I would'nt use M in the church without flash If the light was varying. That would mean I would have to worry about three settings instead of two.

[jamiewexler]

You said that the light at the altar was good, so most of the ceremony should be OK without any flash. That leaves the processional and the recessional.

For the processional I would shoot with direct flash, ISO1600, at least an f4 aperture (f5.6 if I could get away with it) and a SS of 1/60 or higher...Needless to say, I would be shooting in M mode. I shoot most of my processionals and recessionals with direct flash - mounted on a *gasp* bracket. I do my best to balance the flash with the ambient, but the goal is to get a well exposed photo that freezes the action of the fastest moving part of a wedding ceremony (which is kind of like picking the fastest turtle).

After the processional, i would turn my flash off and shoot at ISO 1600 (3200 if I needed) to get at least 1/30 SS (with IS lenses), or a fast enough SS to control camera shake with other lenses. Everyone's tolerance for camera shake is different, so I will leave your min SS up to you. I'll bump my aperture down to 2.8. Since the light at the front of the church will be constant, I'll also shoot in M to make sure my photos are consistent throughout the editing process.

I shoot most of the day at ISO 1600, and did so when i was shooting with 20D's and XT's as well. As long as you are "shooting to the right", the noise is very well controlled. And even if it is a little noisy at 100% on your computer monitor, it does not not show up in prints. (unless you are shooting with a body including or prior to a 10D, in which case stay below 800).

[DwightMcCann]

Such a true statement! I was picked on by our very own Dwight and Taygull shooting my first concert ( I know, what a treat for me to shoot with two very established pros on my first outing!!!) - they were all about AV...I said I just felt I nailed exposure better with M....guess who both shoot M now...

Go ahead guys - send me some MONEY! :)

(for those that don't know..concert and performance photography has hands down the worst lighting situations of any event!!!)

I only shoot M with flash. :-) And, hey, you can come out here and shoot with me anytime!

[figmented]

av for outdoors bright light
m for flash
m for lowlight

it just works best that way.

[vpnd]

m all the way. only if you want images sharp