Slideshows and music.

[Jmm7]

Ok guys, what about if we don't charge for making slideshows and offer them for free or optional and tell the client that they can give us the music they want?

Are we ok with copyrights?

Thanks

[superdiver]

Interesting perspective...good question!

[Jmm7]

Up!

[kevie]

Its tough because technically you are still distributing the music it just happens to be attached to a slide show. WIth that said many wedding videographers us copyrighted music and they are charging for it. You on the other hand are giving it as a free offer but if you really think about it you could just be including it in the rate you charge for your services not saying you are just trying to think outside the box. :S its tough this is just my opinion on the matter i am no way a lawyer.

[blackshadow]

I doubt that the making of slideshows would be allowed under general copyright law... you'd probably get away with it but I suspect you would be violating copyright by making the slideshow whether or not you charge for it or not.

Also what's with the lame bumping?

[IndyJeff]

Look at it this way, you have a great song and you want to make a video using that song. Now you get photos from anywhere you can find what you like and put them in the video. Are you violating anyone's copyright?

[Jon, The Elder]

Indy....Where ya' been. Haven't seen your comments in a long, long while.

Jon

[Binning]

What if the finished product included not only the slideshow but an original of the cd from which the music was taken. In other words pay the ten dollars for the cd and have it accompany the slideshow when delivered to the cilent. Would this constitute 'fair use." And could you then charge a market rate for the slideshow?

[tomd]

What if the finished product included not only the slideshow but an original of the cd from which the music was taken. In other words pay the ten dollars for the cd and have it accompany the slideshow when delivered to the cilent. Would this constitute 'fair use." And could you then charge a market rate for the slideshow?


Sounds like you are now turning into a music distributor, there may be additional laws and industry regulations to follow?

tom

[Yella Fella]

where do you get the permission from then, just straight to the record labels?

[Jon, The Elder]

Technically you need a use permission from BMI or ASCAP or be a member of either group. It is a pain to get.

There are 'license free' collections out there. A quick google will get you started.

[Binning]

I did a little research and there is something called 'the first sale doctrine.' If you purchased a legal copy of a cd you can sell it, however the copyright owner retains its right to the adaptation of the work into another format. In short, my example wouldn't work.

[sfaust]

If you buy the CD with the music on it, the artist is getting paid for their work. If you give the client the original CD with the slideshow, regardless if its strictly legal or not, the chance of being bothered about it is pretty much nill.

I mean how would it look in the press if an artist making millions a year decides to sue a photographer for transferring a purchased and legal copy of a song onto a CD with images for the legal owner of the music? If someone is really worried about being considered a distributor, they can have the client purchase the CD, then it merely a transfer service and not a music sale.

[superdiver]

Look at it this way, you have a great song and you want to make a video using that song. Now you get photos from anywhere you can find what you like and put them in the video. Are you violating anyone's copyright?

WOW, I neer thought of it that way...way to put it in perspective...

[Rick Rosen]

If you buy the CD with the music on it, the artist is getting paid for their work. If you give the client the original CD with the slideshow, regardless if its strictly legal or not, the chance of being bothered about it is pretty much nill.

I mean how would it look in the press if an artist making millions a year decides to sue a photographer for transferring a purchased and legal copy of a song onto a CD with images for the legal owner of the music? If someone is really worried about being considered a distributor, they can have the client purchase the CD, then it merely a transfer service and not a music sale.

The legal owner of the music is still the originating artist and his record label. There is also the issue of the copyright of the composers of the music.

When you purchase a CD you are granted the right to play the music in a non-commercial environment, i.e., your home or car, etc. You cannot duplicate it for other usage by you or any third party. You can copy is to a MP3 player because you are still using the music in a non-commercial environment. The minute you play the CD in a commercial environment (your studio, an office, a slideshow, etc.) technically you need a new license from BMI or ASCAP. DJ's get around this because they purchase music compilations from authorized sources to their industry and their suppliers have paid the fees to distribute and play in that fashion.

Rick

[Jon, The Elder]

Well, lets see. I've watched this exact same topic for the last few years now, it is pretty predictable at the end of sports seasons. Slideshows for banquests, team awards, etc.

There are 2 basic issues here, regarding popular music use for free in a slideshow .

1) Legality.....No it is not legal.

2) Morally......This is where people mouth all kinds of justification for using something they paid for once, and try to make a logical argument that they now "own" it.

What many are really concerned about, is the odds of the Music Police reaching out and sending them to a Maximum Security Prison for life.

If you build your CD and distribute it all over the state/country.......pack your bag, your going away.

If you show it at the local VFW hall at a sports banquet and contribute some profits to buy new uniforms.......you will probably skip the prison sentence.

As always, the choice is yours.

[Binning]

Unfortunately, the recording industry has not developed a licensing product that works for a personalized, single-use slideshow. There are a few smaller companies that have done deals with online slideshow sites, but the selection is pretty limited.

The recording companies have been devastated by online copyright theft. They are in a bunker in a fetal position objecting to people making a backup copy of the CD they purchased. It is understandable. Imagine if your best shots were all taken by a handful of buyers and distributed a thousand fold. You’d be pretty crazy about your copyrights.

I think they are missing out on the potential sales for new media such as slideshows and other uses that could create more income for the artists. They’re too stuck on thinking globally rather than locally. Hopefully they will come to terms with it and create new licensing products.

Most of the photographers that participate on this site have a healthy respect for copyrights. It would be nice if the recording industry would make it easier to combine their products to create a mutually beneficial product.

[superdiver]

OK, here is another angle on it. The 2 local TV station have public acess channels (we are talking a town of 10K people split by the 2 channels, not that that makes a difference.,...LOL) and they have me make slide shows of various local things to play on it.

station one insists that I use copywright free music, so I have my brother compose music and send me Cds...no biggie.

Public acess station two is run out of a local radio station. The managers told me that since they is paying the license fees and that the music is being run out of the radio building and under their license that non copywright free music is OK by them...

Does that make any difference in your minds?

[Binning]

Yes. Try to think of it in terms of your photography work. Example: let's say you are a provider to Getty Images. You expect royalties everytime your work is used. There is a broker selling your work and you get compensated for its use.

With the recording industry associations, ASCAP and the like, they charge a subscription fee for use of their membership's materials. The fee varies by user. In your case, one station paid the licensing fee, the other didn't. One can broadcast coyprighted music, the other can't.

To give you an example of how deep the music copyright can run, small businesses such as restaurants, dentists offices etc. that play a radio or tv can be subject to ASCAP licensing fees depending upon their square footage.

[superdiver]

Yes. Try to think of it in terms of your photography work. Example: let's say you are a provider to Getty Images. You expect royalties everytime your work is used. There is a broker selling your work and you get compensated for its use.

With the recording industry associations, ASCAP and the like, they charge a subscription fee for use of their membership's materials. The fee varies by user. In your case, one station paid the licensing fee, the other didn't. One can broadcast coyprighted music, the other can't.

To give you an example of how deep the music copyright can run, small businesses such as restaurants, dentists offices etc. that play a radio or tv can be subject to ASCAP licensing fees depending upon their square footage.


Oh, now you are just picking on me!

I use Yahoo music (used to be launchcast) and I DO pay a yearly fee for it. Do I still need to pay a license fee...hypotheticlaly speaking of course...I am really a stay at home mom...yeah, thats the ticket...LOL

[hanesian]

Another approach to this whole issue is to simply use royalty free music designed for such purposes. Once you buy a given song or CD you have the legal right to use it in shows you produce and sell. Obviously this limits you from using many of the specific well known songs, but if there are lots of very good songs available this way, even organized by moods, styles, etc.

There are various sources for this type of royalty free music - Google it or I can post links to some I know of if need be.