Problem with 10D with ISO 400 and 550EX flash - Too Noisy

[jhankins]

Greetings:

I took some test shots in a church for an upcoming wedding shoot.

I had taken a number of shots at ISO 400 with my 550EX in E-TTL. Distance to subject around 15 feet or so. The pictures were very noisy, in my mind completely unusuable quality. Pictures were shot in RAW mode. Closer in shots were better but still way too noisy.

Lens was not the fastest, it was at 5.6 at the shots that looked poor. I am going back again to get this dialed in better and will take some tests shots with a faster lens. I'm nervous that I have a quality issue at higher ISOs and that I will have to shoot film along with digital on this wedding next month if I can't get resolved prior. I've practically always shot at ISO 100 over the past year witht he 10 D as I typically shoot with this under studio lighting or outside. Any guidance would be greatly appreciated.

One last thing, I was shooting with version 1.0 firmware, not sure if any improvements have been made with respect to noise etc but I did update since this shoot to 2.1. I'm going back this weekend for another test shoot. Having some things to try to improve would be most helpful.

Jim

[blackviolet]

...The pictures were very noisy, in my mind completely unusuable quality. ...

can you post a sample w/ exif?

[abel]

iwth a flash in low light i noramlly leave the cam in iso 100.

ill use f5.6 and a shutter of like 1/90.

for some portrait photos ill slow i down to like 1/20 so that the background lighting comes thru the lens to get a more complete photo.

on those shots i tell my subject to stay still the entire time so it comes out ok...

[drisley]

Yes, post a sample with exif if possible.
A properly exposed shot on the 10D should be almost noise free up to ISO800.

HERE (http://www.mts.net/~lftbrain/iso1600crop2.jpg) is a shot using the Digital Rebel at ISO1600 with NO noise reduction.
The 10D should be almost identical.

[jhankins]

No I didn't save those shots, but if you can imagine, it's a church, dimly lit, subject at the alter. the subject clarity was OK, the area behind the subject that was where the light fell off was where the very noticable noise existed.

I shot via Program Mode which I expected would have fallout behind. My plans are to go back and shoot some Aperature Priority to allow for better exposed backgrounds (admittedly probably what I should've tested in the first place as of course). I'm new to the E-TTL use, I've only shot with manual flash up to this point.

So in summary, the background behind the subject is where the objectionable noise was located. I was surprised to see the level of noise I was seeing, the subject was acceptably exposed, perhaps very slightly underexposed by 1/4 - 1/2 stop.

[DaveG]

No I didn't save those shots, but if you can imagine, it's a church, dimly lit, subject at the alter. the subject clarity was OK, the area behind the subject that was where the light fell off was where the very noticable noise existed.

I shot via Program Mode which I expected would have fallout behind. My plans are to go back and shoot some Aperature Priority to allow for better exposed backgrounds (admittedly probably what I should've tested in the first place as of course). I'm new to the E-TTL use, I've only shot with manual flash up to this point.

So in summary, the background behind the subject is where the objectionable noise was located. I was surprised to see the level of noise I was seeing, the subject was acceptably exposed, perhaps very slightly underexposed by 1/4 - 1/2 stop.

With digital and film the areas of an image that are underexposed are going to look noisy/grainy unless you let them go black. I suspect that your overall exposure was probably underexposed more than you think, and the shadows even more so. I've taken lots of shots at ISO 400 and while the noise is more noticeable than ISO 100 they are still acceptable.
I'd suggest that you check the original exposure histogram and see how it looks. There is probably going to be shadow buried on the left hand side of the histogram. If the midtones haven't gotten much more than a third of the way to the right then the midtones are underexposed too, and they are going to look noisy too. Now the E-TTL is going to under or over expose depending on how it feels at a given moment: i.e. it sucks. But you can use use the review screen and the +/- flash control to put the flash where it needs to go.

You can use flash and the ambient light in the church with a slower exposure, but make sure that the subjects are still. I had a friend who dragged the shutter with flash of his dad coming down the aisle with his new wife and there was a lot of ghosting.

I use this inside fill flash or "dragging the shutter" technique all of the time for post ceremony setup shots. But I say to the bride and groom, "The flash is going to pop but the exposure is a tiny but longer. So don't move quickly or flinch when you see the flash." That explanation works great with a couple of people but I never try inside fill with groups since Aunt Gertude won't understand, will immediately move and then say, "Oh, did I move?", and then do it again!

I almost always use the ambient light only when I shoot the ceremony at a wedding. The camera is on a tripod and I end up using very slow shutterspeeds. (It's a film camera Bob, so forgive the intrusion.) The results are very natural, if a bit red/yellow. Next year when I switch over to shooting weddings digitally (E-TTL 2 PLEASE PLEASE work!!!) I'll have much better control over the colour temperature and I'll be working with faster lenses. But I still will be looking for stillness during the ceremony.