Upgrading to Digital

[ArtierSquare]

I have been doing photography for some 25 years now and have owned all manner of cameras. My current one is an EOS5. I have also been using a Fuji (Finepix6900) digital. As I am about to retire and look to my future one of the plans is to turn semi / pro.
I have done weddings and other (small commissions) but wish to buy a camera which will take me forward for the next 5 years or so.
Question? With a budget of around £3000, do I stick with the Canon 10D, the 1Ds or as the salesman in a major retailer advises, go for the Olympus E1 and loose the use and savings of my current canon eos lenses?

[Jesper]

Why does the salesman want you to buy an Olympus E1? So that he can sell you lots of lenses and accessories for that camera? If you already have EOS lenses and other stuff, it doesn't really make sense to switch to Olympus (unless that camera has some feature you want so much that you're willing to sell all your EOS stuff and buy Olympus stuff). Don't switch systems just because a salesman tells you.... :roll:

I don't know how much the 1Ds is in the UK, but I think costs more than 3000 UK pounds if you buy it new. Have you considered the 1D Mark II? The 10D is also very good and a lot cheaper than the 1Ds and 1D Mark II.

The 1Ds is the top camera, meant for professional studio photography - 11 megapixels.

The 1D Mark II is a very fast camera for action photography, mainly aimed at photo journalists - 8 megapixels.

The 10D is for the serious hobbyist and is also used by many professionals - 6 megapixels.

The 300D (Digital Rebel) is the cheapest of Canon's DSLRs, it has the same 6 mp sensor as the 10D but has limited functionality (although you can find an unofficial upgrade for the in-camera software on Internet that will give it almost all the functionality of the 10D).

Whatever camera you get, the 300D, 10D, 1D Mk II or 1Ds will certainly last 5 years, but as you know digital cameras are still very much in development - every year newer, better and cheaper cameras are introduced, so whatever camera you buy now, it will probably be primitive compared to the cameras that will be available in 2 or 3 years.

[vfilby]

Goto dpreview and look at the review of the E-1: http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/olympuse1/

Specifically, I would go to the 'photographic tests' section and look through them. They give you side by side comparison images of the E-1 and the 10D. The 10D wins hands down, it has more resolution and better image processing. I have heard people say that Olympus is the 'top dog', the highest in the echlon and I think that's a pile of rubbish. I would like to see this camera that beats out all others.

People here often say -- and I agree -- that you should invest in the lenses not the camera body because a) you will spend more in lenses then in the body and b) bodies change frequently and are easy to upgrade. If you already have a nice selection of EOS lenses why switch to a whole new system?

Just my $0.02

Vince

[ArtierSquare]

:) That's more informative than the salesman was. He seemed to be of the opinion that he has a number of 10d's back with dust related problems and was selling the E1 on the basis of the special feature it has for getting rid of the dust on the sensor inside(I forget what he called it).
He seemed to have convinced himself that £ for £, the E1 was the better buy and was also v.much easier to get hold of. (I have one on reserve which if I can get hold of a 17-40 L series lense, I will probably buy. Apparently they have none at any of their 120 stores!

My mistake on the 1Ds thing, I meant the Mk2 :oops:

[Seveneer]

Hi,

I went from an EOS 5 to a 300D and was dissappointed in the lack of features. Then I got myself a 10D and have been happy as Larry ever since. The features are on a par with the EOS 5 just without the eye controlled focus.

If you were happy with the 5 I'd guess you'd be happy with the 10D, as I am. However if the budget stretches to the MkII........ :wink:

/Phil.

[ArtierSquare]

Thanks to you both for the advice.

I seldom if ever use forums and boy am I regretting it now. This will help enormously in my choices.

The site you pointed me to Vince is excellent. I had done some searches for review sites but had not come up with this one!

There is a guy who's site says he is based in Manchester (UK) and he imports 10d's et al on the grey market from the States.

It's a tough decission to risk going to him and save £200 or go back to the main dealer. The 10d is on reserve till next Monday so I only till then to decide. I'm being pressured into believing their availability in the UK is like hens teath as (he says) most go to the US markets!

Pete

[vfilby]

As with most professional review sites, I would look at the stats and the tests and draw your own conclusions as professional reviewers will rarely decline to recommend a product. I think that the photographic tests that phil uses bring out all the nuances of the camera and even though they may not be quite as evident in real pictures.

You might want to consider ordering something from B&H http://www.bhphotovideo.com I don't know if it would save you any money though. I know if I was to order from Canada I would usually save almost 20% off the Canadian prices after taxes and currency conversion. I know that camera prices are much worse in the UK so the savings might be more.

You may want to post a message to the EOS forum about buying from B&H from the UK to see how other UK'ers have fared with B&H.

Vince

[Jesper]

:) That's more informative than the salesman was. He seemed to be of the opinion that he has a number of 10d's back with dust related problems and was selling the E1 on the basis of the special feature it has for getting rid of the dust on the sensor inside(I forget what he called it). ..

Sooner or later you'll want to clean the sensor - it's necessary with almost all DSLRs. You have to be very careful not to damage the sensor, but it's really not as hard to do as it sounds. The 10D, like most other DSLRs, has a special sensor cleaning mode, in which it flips up the mirror and opens the shutter so that you can access the sensor. I don't know what this special feature of the Olympus E-1 is, but I can't imagine it would be a reason to choose for the E-1 instead of the 10D, if you're already into the Canon EOS system.

[ArtierSquare]

At those rates Vince, it's almost worth me flying to the States and buying there... there is about £400 ($747 US) the difference...

Food for thought!

Of course ehem... then there is import duty!


Pete

[vfilby]

Hmmm, indeed. Camera equipment is duty free between the US and Canada. Have any relatives in NY area? Make a photo trip to NY and *upgrade* your equipment when you get there. ;-) If Bh wasn't a days car ride away I would drive down to get stuff and then drive back with it.

Vince

[ArtierSquare]

Thanks Jesper

It appears that many of the 10d's that are returned are for a "free" clean by Canon of the sensor owing to the dust entering when the lenses are changed. (An age old problem with all SLR’s I know.)

Apparently the E1 does it electronically and therefore doesn't require to be sent back for the purpose! (Though it wasn’t explained what happened to the dust inside when it was electronically [and you may add miraculously] removed!) Does this make sense or am I being had? (again)


Pete

[ArtierSquare]

A most generous offer thank you Vince, I was in NY last year (great place). I wish I had taken the opportunity myself!

Sadly no relatives over there though there may be someone in NY who has an answer!

I posted to the forum as suggested

Pete

[sGu]

There is a guy who's site says he is based in Manchester (UK) and he imports 10d's et al on the grey market from the States.

on this forum or somewhere else, if u don't mind me asking

[vfilby]

Oh I assure you I would be getting some things for myself, things I should be getting at that. I complain about camera gear being overpriced here in Canada, but it is nothing compared to elsewhere.

Cheers,

Vince

[Big_B]

Thanks Jesper

It appears that many of the 10d's that are returned are for a "free" clean by Canon of the sensor owing to the dust entering when the lenses are changed. (An age old problem with all SLR’s I know.)

Apparently the E1 does it electronically and therefore doesn't require to be sent back for the purpose! (Though it wasn’t explained what happened to the dust inside when it was electronically [and you may add miraculously] removed!) Does this make sense or am I being had? (again)


Pete

I think I know what he is going on about. My D70 has a feature that allows you to 'remove dust' in this manner. Basically you switch the 'cleaning' mode on and take a photo of a white piece of paper. The camera then checks for dust on the sensor. When you take pictures in future it electronically removes these dust specs from the picture.

Don't think I'll be rushing out to use this feature.

[ArtierSquare]

Well sGu

I've gone back through my histories and finally found it... http://ukdigitalcameras.safeshopper.com/8/467.htm is the location I have.

I'd be interested in an opinion!

Thanks also to Big_B. He was trying to sell me this feature as the b all and end all!

Never needed it in the past. Nothing a blast with a car tyre pump won't fix! (kidding) :wink:

[Big_B]

Never needed it in the past. Nothing a blast with a car tyre pump won't fix! (kidding) :wink:

Brute force and ignorance. You gotta love it :wink: :D

[sGu]

Well sGu

I've gone back through my histories and finally found it... http://ukdigitalcameras.safeshopper.com/8/467.htm is the location I have.

I'd be interested in an opinion!

Thanks also to Big_B. He was trying to sell me this feature as the b all and end all!

Never needed it in the past. Nothing a blast with a car tyre pump won't fix! (kidding) :wink:

that's a rip off if it's a USA canon 10D with international warranty, would be even worse if that price is for grey market(didn't look carefully, just checked price)

I'd suggest u go with B&H, that's where i got mine from, well not body but everything else.

Canon UK won't honour any warranty other than cameras purchased within UK, however, they do honour lenses as long as they are not grey market.

where are you based anyway?

[ArtierSquare]

that's a rip off if it's a USA canon 10D with international warranty, would be even worse if that price is for grey market(didn't look carefully, just checked price)

I'd suggest u go with B&H, that's where i got mine from, well not body but everything else.

Canon UK won't honour any warranty other than cameras purchased within UK, however, they do honour lenses as long as they are not grey market.

where are you based anyway?

Jessops are the supplier and I'm in Worcester. I've not heard of B&H before (thought they were ciggs) and am just a little nervous about using their service

[ArtierSquare]

It appears (embarrassingly) that I can’t even use the Quotes facility here (what hope have I got) :(


Pete

[vfilby]

B&H is highly respected here, many members use their service and very few, if any, complain. I amsure the results from your other post will be similar.

Vince

[psk4363]

Hi,

You've had lots of advice here (as usual from the font of all things Canon D-SLR!) - all I can add is that you will not be dissappointed when you do go digital.

My advice would be to go with the 10D (it complements the 5 well) - i you take to digital well you could always upgrade to a higher spec D-SLR later.

With regards to that salesman joker, the perceived dust problem is just that, perceived, if you are merely sensible about when you change lenses you will be fine. I've had my 10D for 9 months and have had no problems with dust.

As for his advice to buy the Olympus E1 - what a load of garbage! His opinion that is! Jessops per chance?

Cheers,
Barry

[sGu]

you can check out their website to see for yourself: http://www.bhphotovideo.com

[ArtierSquare]

Thank you to all who contributed...

I can take away a lot of options and thoughts for more research. I am much more confident about my choice of Canon 10d and refuse to ask the same questions on the Olympus forum as this would only add to my confusion!

To quote a worn cliche, I will be back with more questions on this subject as no doubt the more I learn the more I'll learn I don't know!

I have been reading the other forums on this site and find that although I can hold my own in a discussion on the why's and wherefores of film, digital leaves me learning...

So many pictures, so little time...

Pete :wink:

[vfilby]

Good luck with your purchasing. I think that Canon is a good choice -- duh! I am here arn't I? I think that you will be happy with any Canon DSLR, they are great cameras and will continue to be great cameras even once newer models fidn there way onto the market.

Vince

[Jon]

Thanks Jesper

It appears that many of the 10d's that are returned are for a "free" clean by Canon of the sensor owing to the dust entering when the lenses are changed. (An age old problem with all SLR’s I know.)

Apparently the E1 does it electronically and therefore doesn't require to be sent back for the purpose! (Though it wasn’t explained what happened to the dust inside when it was electronically [and you may add miraculously] removed!) Does this make sense or am I being had? (again)


Pete

I think I know what he is going on about. My D70 has a feature that allows you to 'remove dust' in this manner. Basically you switch the 'cleaning' mode on and take a photo of a white piece of paper. The camera then checks for dust on the sensor. When you take pictures in future it electronically removes these dust specs from the picture.

Don't think I'll be rushing out to use this feature.
The E-1 has a clear sheet over the sensor and when the camera's switched on, it gives this clear sheet a (figurative) shake, thus getting rid of any dust that's settled on the sheet while trying to reach the sensor. If the D70 despots like you describe, it's merely trading retouching prints for retouching slides (white, rather than black) spots to get rid of - or else colour averaging across the spots).

[Jesper]

I think I know what he is going on about. My D70 has a feature that allows you to 'remove dust' in this manner. Basically you switch the 'cleaning' mode on and take a photo of a white piece of paper. The camera then checks for dust on the sensor. When you take pictures in future it electronically removes these dust specs from the picture.

Don't think I'll be rushing out to use this feature.

You mean, the camera looks at where the dark spots are on the image of the white piece of paper and then, via digital processing, automatically "clones" out the dust spots, like what you'd normally do by hand in Photoshop? Wow, I didn't know something like that existed in cameras.

Ofcourse having a clean sensor is better than having a dirty sensor and have the camera making up image data at the spots where the dust is.... :?

Anyway, don't overestimate the dust problem. Yes, you will have to clean the sensor every now and then, ofcourse you need to be careful but it's not really that hard once you've tried it and you don't need to do it very often, as long as you're not changing lenses in very dusty environments all the time. I've only cleaned the sensor of my 10D two or three times in the 8 months or so that I've had it.

[DeeplyDigital]

Hi,

In case you are thinking of importing - remember that within the EU you can buy your goods anywhere without paying import duty or vat -

10D Body €1444 http://www.ny-camera.com/language/english/index.htm

10D Body €1479 http://www.fotokoch.org/digifoto/digicanon.shtml

Jessops online price today is £1159, approx. €1750

Your budget is around €4500 -

I have bought online from NY-camera before, they are reliable & efficient.
The Koch-Shop in was kind enough to let me avail of their online prices in their shop in Duesseldorf plus they reduced all sorts of things for me.
Maybe it helps being a girl though.

In Koch's I was also told never to clean the sensor myself, rather to bring it to Canon where they do that sort of thing.

[DeeplyDigital]

or go on a holiday to Spain.
The Spanish prices seem to be rather lower than the UK & Irish prices

[CyberDyneSystems]

It appears (embarrassingly) that I can’t even use the Quotes facility here (what hope have I got) :(


Pete

In your user profile,. you must have the "Disable BBcode in this post" check box checked.. uncheck this box and the quotes etc.. will function.

Welcome to the forum :)

[Canuck]

Just keep in mind that if you go to B&H in NYC you will have the 8.5% sales tax to pay. I know it is probably pocket change to you, but just bear that in mind.

[Big_B]

I think I know what he is going on about. My D70 has a feature that allows you to 'remove dust' in this manner. Basically you switch the 'cleaning' mode on and take a photo of a white piece of paper. The camera then checks for dust on the sensor. When you take pictures in future it electronically removes these dust specs from the picture.

Don't think I'll be rushing out to use this feature.

You mean, the camera looks at where the dark spots are on the image of the white piece of paper and then, via digital processing, automatically "clones" out the dust spots, like what you'd normally do by hand in Photoshop? Wow, I didn't know something like that existed in cameras.


Exactly that. Personally I reckon I'll clone them out manually and get the camera cleaned if it ever becomes a real problem.

[Big_B]

The E-1 has a clear sheet over the sensor and when the camera's switched on, it gives this clear sheet a (figurative) shake, thus getting rid of any dust that's settled on the sheet while trying to reach the sensor. If the D70 despots like you describe, it's merely trading retouching prints for retouching slides (white, rather than black) spots to get rid of - or else colour averaging across the spots).

Simple and clever. I like it.