Wedding Ceremony RULES

[dsze]

Ok, some of you may remember me asking for wedding photo advice recently. Today I was notified by the bride of the official church rules for the ceremony photography:

"Picture requiring the use of flash bulbs are not permitted during the ceremony. Videos may be taken during the ceremony, but no additional lighting will be allowed. The photographer taking still photography is to remain to the back of the church or in the balcony. Only the official photographer and the person taking videos will be allowed to take pictures in the church during the ceremony. The official photographer MUST remain halfway down the center aisle when taking pictures of the processional, and then move to the balcony."


Is this typical for church weddings? I am concerned slightly. Any advice besides using tripod with wide-open telephotos from the balcony?

-thanks,
daniel

[Adam Hicks]

Ouch... you might want to at least borrow someone's 2.8 70-200! Are you sure they're not even going to let YOU use a flash? It's probably going to be necessary if the lighting is dim. I've only done one wedding, and another on film, but they really turned out nice. I couldn't imagine what I'd do without a flash!

BTW, I didn't use a flash bracket, I just centered all 'portrait' shots and cropped later. So much easier. I do have the battery grip, but that's all I use it for.. the extra battery, not the vertical controls.

Good luck!
Adam

[merlyn9]

You might also want to clarify the Processional portion with the church itself. Usually if the church states NO Flash, there is often an exception for the processions (In & Out). Possibly for the "Kiss the Bride" also.

I have often found this to be the case.

Generally if you speak directly to the individual performing the services, there is less stress for all parties.

Good Tripod(s) & fast telephoto's are a must!

Best of Luck!


---michael 8)

[dsze]

Thanks....I'll try to call and speak to them personally ASAP. In your experiences, what is the highest ISO I should even consider using for a wedding like this?

-daniel

[GPR1]

That's the rule in my church -- no flash photography during the ceremony at all, and the photographer must stay in the back. The point is this: it's a religious ceremony, not a celebrity red-carpet experience. For people who are worshipping, a flash is not conducive. It's tough for the photographer, though, and you need to plan around it. The truth is, your final portfolio won't contain lots of shots of the ceremony itself.

Greg

[merlyn9]

With Film, I have pushed both 200 & 400 just a bit with good results.

However, it is extreamly important to A:}NOT take these to any ordinary lab Especially a Walmart, or Walgreens type). Take them to a speciallty lab with thier own controlled processing equipment on-site; B:}informed them that you pushed the film & by how much!

(IFF you push the inside church film... DO NOT use that outside, keep in seperate camera until done with those shots, LABEL the canister & put aside!)

I have done 2 digital services, and have not had to go above 400 ISO, both with very good results.

...just my $0.02, Hope this helps :D

[billfranklin]

I have shot hundreds of weddings in Texas and have never used a flash during the ceremony. When using film I always used ISO 400 and had the camera on a tripod with a cable release. There were times when the exposure ran up to 1 to 2 seconds, but most of the time, unless during dayling hours, the exposure ran 1/8 to 1/2 sec. at f4 or 4.5.
Good Luck.

Bill F.

[robertwgross]

Those rules are not too uncommon for a large church.

Small ones are often more flexible.

---Bob Gross---

[psk4363]

Hi Daniel,

Those 'rules' here in the UK are fairly standard - bear in mind the comments from GPR 1 and have due regard for them! Take the advice of merlyn9 too!

With the 10D you can get away with ISO 400, but the lower the better - with your 50mm f1.8 you should be OK.

Don't forget the Vallium!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Barry

[dsze]

Yes, the 1.8 of the 50mm will be ok, but the 50mm won't be long enough will it? Considering that I have to be confined to the back of the church.

-I totally respect the fact that it is a religious ceremony and that the couple should be the focus, NOT THE PHOTOGRAPHER. I completely respect that... yet, I still want to produce the best images I can for this couple to look back upon.

Thanks for all the advice!
-daniel

[merlyn9]

Do you have a shop near you where you can 'rent' a lens or two for the day?
I have done that on numerous occations, as long as the benifit out weighs the rental costs...

[Mike H]

I actually like those rules. As someone said, it's a religious ceremony, not a photo op.

I was once asked to stand in the sanctuary and take a shot of the couple taking their vows. The priest said it was fine with him. It was one of the most uncomfortable moments of my life. Trust me, I was the center of attention! :oops: I was in my late teens when I did that; if asked to do such a thing today, I would fight it.

The good news here is that some great shots can be taken from the rear of the church. You're right about the tripod and long, fast glass. If your camera is fairly quiet, take several exposures in case you have subject movement causing blur. Try to fire in a moment when they are still. If your shutter is not very quiet, try to time the exposures so that the priest is talking when you shoot (so he will cover your sound).

A tight shot of the couple facing each other just before they are about to take the vows is usually made because it's a classic moment; their expressions and joined hands show the bond between them, and all three of the main participants are shown at the moment of truth. It's also shot because the priest's voice is covering a shutter click! :D

Be sure to get a good wide shot of the whole scene, too. If you don't have a perspective control lens, resist the temptation to tilt the camera up to include the space above the altar in the shot. Keeping the camera level will put lots of floor in the shot--which you can crop out later--but will prevent you from getting that falling away effect you see when people shoot upward at tall buildings. (Of course, some find that kind of distortion artsy.)

There are some good examples of the "whole church" shot here:

http://www.andrewcollings.com/weddings/venues/church/4thpages/4pres1.html

Good luck.

Mike H

[Mike H]

One more thing: check out the church! Go shoot it beforehand so you can tell how long a lens you need. Ask them to turn on the lights for you, just as they would have them set up for the ceremony. Then you'll have your readings ahead of time and can work on the game plan. Also, find out from the bride if they will use the church lights or if the ceremony will be candle lit.

Mike H

[Biko]

If you can attend the rehearsal if there is one may help, and discuss the exact protocol of what you can do as all are slightly different.

At one I was told to stand at one side, but was allowed to step forward and take pictures when they did ring exchange, and again signing the book, both times flash was permitted. I felt better as I knew exactly when my cue was, camera was set took 1 picture each and then moved out of way as agreed.

Good luck

[Bruce Foreman]

Ok, some of you may remember me asking for wedding photo advice recently. Today I was notified by the bride of the official church rules for the ceremony photography:

"Rules listed here."

Is this typical for church weddings? I am concerned slightly. Any advice besides using tripod with wide-open telephotos from the balcony?

-thanks,
daniel

Fairly typical. I'm retired now but have done a TON of weddings in my studio days. Some churches are even more restrictive, some very lax.

First off I always arrived early enough to see the minister and ask him what his rules were, I'd communicate to him I would follow them, and I always did.

Learn to work quickly but with precision, both on setting up your folks and the poses, and with the photography. Todays gear makes the camera work easier than it was when I started out.

One approach that I used to very good effect takes a lot of selling but avoide a lot of issues and actually "kept the wedding together".

During the ceremony I stayed at the rear of the church and took a few pix without flash. After the ceremony and the bride & groom exit the minister announced that the families requested all remained seated and watch the pictures being made. I'd bring the couple back in and put them back up with the minister.

I'd do a quick "flurry" of pictures set around the minister, bride & groom, ring exchange (actually have them repeat vows), and first kiss. Have the minister present them as Mr. & Mrs. (all this posed for pictures, of course) and then I'd excuse the minister and THANK HIM.

Next would be the ususal "altar return" formal groups, all posed "lightning fast" but with attention to detail (dresses draping straight etc). All the while I was also directing comments to the audience to keep them feeling like they were part of it and they enjoyed it.

I would promise brides families (and the grooms families) a 30 minute limit on the altar return session. At the end of that time I would either have the pictures I needed or would quit.

It was an unusual break from the traditional way of doing things but essentially allowed me to get pictures that looked like I was allowed to roam freely and take close ups live and "intimate".

Advantages:

Guests are not left standing around waiting! They are seated comfortably.

More of the wedding is shared with invited guests.

Nobody needed for pictures manages to escape. All are either standing "in formation" or are seated up front (usually).

Bride and her mom get more "mileage" out of the wedding dress, she gets to "show off" a bit more.

Then at the end of the session I would have the Bride & Groom exit one more time so I could get another shot or two of that and we'd all head for a reception togeter.

Worked like a charm for me and gals in the wedding party and from the guest list would book their weddings with me for the same treatment after seeing how it went.

Ministers would be suspicious at first but after seeing it in action sould admit it was much kinder on older folks .

Only folks who didn't like it were those who felt trapped because they hadda duck out for that smoke.

Bruce Foreman

[dsze]

Great info and advice! Thank you very much for that!
-daniel

[dsze]

Oh, BTW I am going to the church the day before at the same time as the ceremony to check out the lighting and such....I'm also going to shoot the rehersal that night and speak with the minister...I'll also get any last minute notices, desires, adjustments from the couple after the rehersal at the rehersal dinner.

Hopefully, there are alot of windows and it will be a sunny afternoon!

thanks,
daniel

[DaveG]

Ok, some of you may remember me asking for wedding photo advice recently. Today I was notified by the bride of the official church rules for the ceremony photography:

"Picture requiring the use of flash bulbs are not permitted during the ceremony. Videos may be taken during the ceremony, but no additional lighting will be allowed. The photographer taking still photography is to remain to the back of the church or in the balcony. Only the official photographer and the person taking videos will be allowed to take pictures in the church during the ceremony. The official photographer MUST remain halfway down the center aisle when taking pictures of the processional, and then move to the balcony."


Is this typical for church weddings? I am concerned slightly. Any advice besides using tripod with wide-open telephotos from the balcony?

-thanks,
daniel

Each church has its own rules. Some (Catholic) will pretty much let you swing by the chandeliers if you'd like, while others (Baptist) barely let you into the church, but even this varies. Hey you are literally NOT allowed inside a Morman temple. So I tell my bride's and grooms that I will do what I can during the ceremony but the final decision is up to the minister/priest.

I think for a lot of these ministers they've gotten sick of photographers who think that the wedding is a photo-op. I've actually seen shooters trying to get between the minister and the B&G during the ceremony. So that's where the "rules" come from.

To smooth the waters, I try to ge to the church as early as possible in order to speak to the minister. I just say to them "OK, what DON'T you want me to do?" and while their mouths hang open I say, "Well this is what I'd like to do..." and they usually OK it.

Given complete freedom I do want to shoot the cemony with available light. Sure I use flash to freeze the coming up and down the aisle motion, but I much prefer the more natural look when things are shot with the ambient light. So I am in the back of the church and I am using a tripod. I just hate the flash fall off and if you try to drag the shutter you get the same slow shutterspeed AND annoy everyone.

As an aside I think the ceremony part of the wedding is totally out of control and I try to convery that to the B&G early on in discussions. I tell them that if a groomsman steps in the way I'm certainly not going to yell at him to move.

At one wedding a vouple of years ago I negotiated permission to shoot from the inner doorway of the church. Then when the mom and dad brought the bride down the aisle the minster forgot to ask them to sit down, and they blocked me out completely! There was no balcony and I was NOT allowed to shoot from anywhere else! So I took ONE shot of the ceremony just to prove to the B&G that I could see nothing. But I ratted the minister out as quckly as I could. Hey it wasn't my fault and I didn't want it to look like it was later.

In any case the B&G have selected the church and I make it very clear that I will follow the church's rules, and just do what I can.

[Mikelite80]

My company was hired to put a small concert on inside a church during the wedding. We went in for a pre-production meeting and as they we describing what they wanted to do to the church the Minister started to say no and recite some rules. We left thinking it was off. Later someone of high standing in the community pulled out there check book. Week later we were doing a rock n' roll wedding for them. And it was actually a morman church too.

Point of the story...Hope for high rollers who REALLY want good pictures, or you get to buy some LONG "L" glass!

Mike

[dsze]

Haha...Yeah, thats probably not going to happen....the high roller or the getting to buy more L glass... I just got done dropping about another grand on camera stuff for this wedding. ....don't think the wife will spring for more L's. I'm not so worried anymore though...I think I can get the job done decently.

.....funny how church's ideals change in the face of money isn't it? I guess thats where one might differentiate between religious division & Faith.... oh man, I'm really getting off-topic now!

-daniel

[robertwgross]

In this forum, normally the only religious discussion is PC versus Mac, Canon versus Nikon, and things like that.

---Bob Gross---

[rowdy]

I've done a handful of weddings, and the method that Bruce outlined is pretty close to the way I've managed to get the shots. I agree with the "no flash" during the ceremony, so the "photo session" afterwards works great.

[PineCone]

Ok, some of you may remember me asking for wedding photo advice recently. Today I was notified by the bride of the official church rules for the ceremony photography:

"Picture requiring the use of flash bulbs are not permitted during the ceremony. Videos may be taken during the ceremony, but no additional lighting will be allowed. The photographer taking still photography is to remain to the back of the church or in the balcony. Only the official photographer and the person taking videos will be allowed to take pictures in the church during the ceremony. The official photographer MUST remain halfway down the center aisle when taking pictures of the processional, and then move to the balcony."


Is this typical for church weddings? I am concerned slightly. Any advice besides using tripod with wide-open telephotos from the balcony?

-thanks,
daniel

these rules are certainly not photographer friendly... neither will the videographer appreciate these rules... unless of course the b&g will be sitting and facing the audience. i shot a wedding recently where the b&g were seated facing the audience... i found it very convenient. it certainly made my job much much easier to do

[Andy_T]

Well,

maybe DZSE tells us how the wedding actually turned out ... two years ago :D

I kept asking myself why he would want to use the 50/1.8, as he had a 24-70/2.8 and 70-200/2.8 in his gear list ... then I checked the date.

Best regards,
Andy

[Bosman]

what is a "B&amp"?

[jiggling_john]

its just the way it's formatted, it's meant to be bride and groom or b ampersand g, but the & symbol gets converted to what you see.

[Andy_T]

Most likely the original author typed the 'ampersand' sign of bride+groom and it was misrepresented by the forum software.

Best regards,
Andy

[Bosman]

Thanks thought I was missing some cryptic thing.;)

[ScottE]

As mentioned, the rules are pretty standard and provide a good balance between the desire of the family for photos, the religious solemnity of the ceremony and respect for the congregation who want to observe the proceedings without interuption from flashes of light and the clatter of shutters.

Some churches have an aisle down the side and will allow you to go forward to the alcoves for part of the ceremony for things like signing the registry.

Try to time your shutter releases so the noise does not interfere with the ceremony. For example it is often possible to fire when the congregation is repeating a line, saying Amen or singing.

Try to attend a wedding rehersal, if they have one, both to let the minister know who you and and get permission for what you want to do and also so you will be able to visualize and plan where and what you want to shoot. The photos from the rehersal can be good to have too.

Sometimes you have to push the limits of the rules a little bit to get the shots you want. Remember that it is easier to get forgiveness than permission. Just don't be so abusive you won't be allowed back in the church in the future.

Two cameras, one with a telephoto and the other with a shorter zoom are handy. For example, as the couple leave the church you can shoot from the door, first using a 70-200/2.8 as they start down the aisle and then switching to a 17-55/2.8 (with a 20D or 30D) as they get closer to the door. Perspective, lighting and expressions change as they come down aisle and you will want a good series of shot to choose the best from.

[wilflee]

That's why I'd rather be a food or product photographer instead of wedding photographer. There's a lot less pressure, use all the flash you want, and you can eat the subject after you're done.

[chloeosmom]

I will have a digital XT and a film EOS Rebel, would it be ok then to bounce between them with the tele and 50 until I can afford the second XT or (shudder) 20D in the future?

[Cathpah]

I will have a digital XT and a film EOS Rebel, would it be ok then to bounce between them with the tele and 50 until I can afford the second XT or (shudder) 20D in the future?

what do you mean "would it be ok?"

as long as you're fine working in both digital and film format I don't see what would stop you. I also don't see what this post has to do with this thread...but maybe I'm missing something

[ScottE]

You really complicate your work flow if you bounce between digital and film and it could be difficult to get a uniform appearance the the portfolio. With a little work you should be able to do it though.

[E3_Photo_Studio]

Is this typical for church weddings? I am concerned slightly. Any advice besides using tripod with wide-open telephotos from the balcony?


Yep. Typical! I've only been to one wedding ( my nieces) where the church didn't care what the photographers did. Make sure you have lens that work well in low light situations. DEFINATELY bring a tripod and a light meter. Get their early to meter the lighting in different areas of the church. Good luck!!

[jj1987]

As I've stated many times before, this is VERY common.

The 135L 85L 70-200IS and 35L were bought by the guy I work with for this very reason, practically every church around here has that rule!