300D or 10D, which one for me?

[RoB_m]

did you like that rhyme?

well, i'm graduating this spring from university and i plan on making photography at least a secondary source of income, if not my primary source. i'm relatively experienced already and i know i could use every feature of each camera to its fullest. i've been able to do things with my A80 that many wouldn't think possible. i primarily work with landscape photography and i will be photographing some freeride/downhill mountain biking. i've never really been one to use too much zoom. i'm no bird watcher or flower photographer.

my first urge is obviously for the 10D since the 1D is just wayyy too much for me. i don't even really know how i'll be able to afford the camera in a year but i'm thinking i could come up with $1500-2000 for a body and a lense or two and go from there.

do you think a 300D with the 10D-like firmware upgrade and a good wide angle and 50mm lens will suffice for a new pro bursting on the scene? or should i empty the pockets and plunk down the extra cash for the 10D since it's more pro oriented and i'll want something more serious than the 300D down the road? what about a used D60? i'm hoping canon updates the 10D to mkII so i can get the original for cheaper.

thanks for the advice.

[RikWriter]

Get the 10D. The Rebel is nice for a beginner or a hobbyist, but if you plan on being a pro, you will need the extra features. And you may need the warranty.

[mttmrphy]

People say its better to grow into something than grow out of it. I purchased the 300D only 4 months ago and I have since upgraded to the 10D. My poor 300D now sits as my alternate/backup camera. I now am trying to justify a 1D... when does it end?

Like RikWriter said, the dRebel is fine for the hobbyist...

[Kabz]

I think that when someone owns a 10D, they want to justify to themselves that paying that much extra for a metal body and a couple extra features with a warranty will really change their life.
Camera's are pretty much identical.
The 10D just has the prestige in the name.
I got myself a 300D recently, you are coming from an A80.
Jumping to a 10D is a huge leap, and the 300D is just as big but more affordable.
If you don't mind a durable plastic body.....then go with the 300D because you will get all the features of the 10D.
Sure everyone may have a 300D, but I have seen some unbelievable stuff taken with the 300D with the stock EF-S lens.
Hobbyist or Pro.
As long as you are experienced enough to produce good pictures and have a good LENS, thats all you will really need.
the CMOS sensor is the same, go to dpreview and look at the comparison of the 2 cameras.

To the above person, I think its ridiculous that you "outgrew" the 300D in 4 months.
Either you have money to throw around, or you don't know what you are doing.
I am someone who wants to get the BEST thing on the market.
I was like, "Screw the digital rebel, I'm getting the pro **** with this 10D"
I researched more and thought about the price difference and the 300D made perfect sense.

If I were you, I would get a 300D......take it from there. You will be able to put more into new Lenses and filters and accessories. By time you do all that, nobody will be able to tell the difference because the pictures will look great.

I don't think I'll be getting a new digital slr body any time soon....A new lens....yes. But as for the body, its almost silly even considering a 10D.

[roanjohn]

I've seen your work in the critique forum and I know the amazing things you can do with your A80.

With that said, I don't think it really matters which camera you get. Both will produce similar image qualities at the end without anybody knowing which came from which.

If I were in your shoes, I would get the Rebel body and a really really good L wide angle lens. Don't worry about the lack of versatility between the Rebel and the 10D, I will tell you that there are many workarounds you can do to get that shot you want. And Wasai is working hard to crack the ultimate hack that will save you the difference between the 2 cameras.

BTW, check the marketplace..........a lot of cheap Rebels and 10Ds looking for a safe home.

Ro1

[mttmrphy]

If you want a rebel, contact me... Mine is used obviously but I bought it at best buy with a replacement plan. 2 or 4 years I cant remember. Its in new condition.

I have the battery pack for it also...

[RoB_m]

the Drebel body costs around $600 right?

i'd definately get the 50mm f1.8 right away, and probably the 17-40mm L [is that the right focal range?]. the fisheye effect is pretty popular in biking shots so i'd like to be able to pull that off. i'll look for an example.

if the cameras use the same sensor then i'm pretty sure i could get the same image quality from both. the 10D just has a better burst feature and buffer right? that's another popular use for drops in DH mountain biking.
it would be nice to be able to do this but i wouldn't do it too often.

this isn't a very good example but it lets you know what i'm talking about.
http://gethyped.net/stevepics/kyle_bigsequence.jpg
from what i've seen, there really aren't too many truely great biking photographers, and since this is a sport i participate in myself, i'm thinking i might be able get some exposure easier than just solely being an art landscape photographer. from what i've gather by looking at this years Bike magazine photo anual, good mountain bike photography is just landscape photography with someone on a bike somewhere in the frame. sounds like i could adapt to that.

alright, i know this is a canon forum, but i'm well aware of the Nikon D70 and i've heard from numerous sources that it's a better camera for the money than the 300D. can anyone objectively agree or disagree with that or are we too biased here?

[RoB_m]

If you want a rebel, contact me... Mine is used obviously but I bought it at best buy with a replacement plan. 2 or 4 years I cant remember. Its in new condition.

I have the battery pack for it also...

if you still have it in 9 months or so, we'll be in touch ;]

[RikWriter]

I think that when someone owns a 10D, they want to justify to themselves that paying that much extra for a metal body and a couple extra features with a warranty will really change their life.
<snip>
To the above person, I think its ridiculous that you "outgrew" the 300D in 4 months.
Either you have money to throw around, or you don't know what you are doing.


:roll:
Jeez, aren't you the obnoxious know-it-all?

[c0ntr0lz]

just get the 310d
cost as much as the 300d but has the 10d options

[Big_B]

alright, i know this is a canon forum, but i'm well aware of the Nikon D70 and i've heard from numerous sources that it's a better camera for the money than the 300D. can anyone objectively agree or disagree with that or are we too biased here?


There have been numerous discussions on this recently. Here's a couple of links for you.

http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?t=37399&highlight=d70+vs

http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?t=36976&highlight=d70+vs

[Seveneer]

To the above person, I think its ridiculous that you "outgrew" the 300D in 4 months.
Either you have money to throw around, or you don't know what you are doing.


Well there must be something wrong with me. I bought the 300D and was disappointed with it after a few weeks (admittedly, there wasn't then the option of the hacked firmware). I soon realised that, while it is a great camera, it didn't match up to my EOS 5. I still have the 300D (my fiance uses it) but I have moved on to the 10D and have been happy with it for the last 8 months.

Maybe I'm just blissfully ignorant and lack the insight that Kabz obviously has :wink:

[ijohnson]

I think that when someone owns a 10D, they want to justify to themselves that paying that much extra for a metal body and a couple extra features with a warranty will really change their life.
<snip>
To the above person, I think its ridiculous that you "outgrew" the 300D in 4 months.
Either you have money to throw around, or you don't know what you are doing.


:roll:
Jeez, aren't you the obnoxious know-it-all?

Wow! I am glad that people are just waking up. I can't imagine this set of comments getting a very nice welcoming. Mr Rik, you have a lot to learn, and if you don't, you have a lot to learn about how to communicate it. I wont comment about whether I think that set of statements is right or disgustingly, blatently, and obscenely wrong. I will keep my comments to myself. Please, in the future, keep comments like this to a strictly 300D forum unless you are specifically trying to get people to yell at you.

[nosquare2003]

To the above person, I think its ridiculous that you "outgrew" the 300D in 4 months.
Either you have money to throw around, or you don't know what you are doing.


I don't agree with you. A 10D is a different camera to 300D. For example, it has larger buffer than a 300D and a faster fps. If the poster feels limitation of using 300D, why can't he upgrade the camera?

On the other hand, although 300D is labelled as a beginner model, many good photographers choose it. One reason is that they don't need the extra features in 10D. For example, a landscape photographer won't need a fast fps and large buffer. (It also applies to any other types of photographers.)

The selection of cameras are based on personal needs. Since you probably won't know the poster's need, your comment is not fair to him.

[mttmrphy]

To the above person, I think its ridiculous that you "outgrew" the 300D in 4 months.
Either you have money to throw around, or you don't know what you are doing.


I wasn't going to acknowledge this comment but since others have I will respond.

At the time I purchased my 300D it was $500 cheaper than the 10D and I was only a hobbyist. Since then, I have gone the route of sports photography which the 300D is not really good for. The 10D prices have dropped low enough for me to upgrade and offer needed extras that are not included with the dRebel.

Do yourself a favor and borrow a 10D for a day then tell me if its the same as a 300D.

Also, I am not wealthy and believe it or not... I actually do know what I'm doing. (most of the time)

[RoB_m]

how about the D60 v. 300D for landscape photography?

i just read the 'D60 why not' thread is it's pretty persuasive.

[RikWriter]

Wow! I am glad that people are just waking up. I can't imagine this set of comments getting a very nice welcoming. Mr Rik, you have a lot to learn, and if you don't, you have a lot to learn about how to communicate it. I wont comment about whether I think that set of statements is right or disgustingly, blatently, and obscenely wrong. I will keep my comments to myself. Please, in the future, keep comments like this to a strictly 300D forum unless you are specifically trying to get people to yell at you.

No, I think I will keep to my own council on such matters and continue to speak my mind honestly. I find it interesting that you took no offense at the blatantly offensive and insulting comments to which I was responding. Speaks volumes about you.

[Persian-Rice]

Kabz, as a relative newbie here, like myself, you should realize that when you say something, especially when it could cost someone a large sum of money, know what you are talking about.

The problem is, as much as you think you know, there are many others who know a lot more then you. Guys who own both camera's and guys in photography for 50 years etc etc.

As a relatively inexperienced member, I always make sure to double check and confirm what I am saying. The 10D is not the same camera as the 300D. Not to say that you need to be perfect. Many of the threads here are made in search of advice toward a future purchase. If you give wrong advice, you can very likely have an effect on someones decision and subsequent purchase.

It's not like someone is going to blame you for suggesting something that they might not have needed to purchase. The fact is, you have to consider that money is hard to earn, how would you feel if you suggested that someone buys a 300D, then when that someone went out and purchased they realized that they needed the higher fps or the far more sturdy body or a need for a socket for studio lighting. You might say that they should have researched, but guess what? asking in a forum was a part of the research as well.

You might not think of it at the time you are posting, but if you say a oh............... 70-200 L is crap, it sucks yada yada, the person considering buying one will take your comments quite seriously.

I'm not trying to chastise you, I just want you to see that going on a little rant like you did, will have an effect in one way or the other. If you are wrong or not.

Cheers.

[Persian-Rice]

Rob_M, the D60 is more closely compared to the 10D rather then then the 300D.

From what I have seen, the D60 is a very good camera.

[vfilby]

Well go to dpreview and look at the comparison as someone else mentioned above. Then make note of all the features that the 300D will have with the new firmware and I think you'll find that there are not as many as you might think. If, at that point, the 10D has features you want or need then I would consider it. if it doesn't it might not be worth the extra $$.

I have heard this board say many times that glass is more important, glass is an investment that you will keep throughout multiple body upgrades. I think this should be kept in consideration because if you spend less on the body then you can use the saved money to buy some good glass.

And now for the rant on the posts that I have read:

To the people who claim that the 300D is a hobby only camera: Why? IT is almost the same bloody camera! And with the hack the only real significan difference is the FPS, buffer and the black metal body. It is easy to draw the conclusion that black==pro, from the above comments.

People say its better to grow into something than grow out of it. I purchased the 300D only 4 months ago and I have since upgraded to the 10D. My poor 300D now sits as my alternate/backup camera. I now am trying to justify a 1D... when does it end?

mttmrphy: I would say that it is epistemically irresponsible to say that the camera is not worth buying without telling the reason why. Everyone that I have seen upgrading from a 300D to a 10D has done so for the speed. Since you are doing sports the 10D has an obvious advantage.

I would also like to add that 300D is perfectly adequate for sports, you will just have to work on your timing more and be less dependant on the ability to take a series of pictures. A good photographer and alittle creativity could take better pictures with a crappy camera than a noob with a 1DmkII.

Why doesn't everybody just say I think you should get the 300D because of x or the 10D because of y. Then rob_m can sit down and figure out which features he needs, as I am sure he would know them best of all of us, and which camera to buy.

Vince

[arumdevil]

If you plan to do any type of sports photography, which you said you do, then I recommend skipping the 300D and going straight for the 10D.

I say this as a 300D user who has the "hacked" firmware installed.
the main advantage of the 10D for sports and such is the Servo auto focus mode. the "hack" for the 300D claims to have this but it doesn't work properly. you can get it to work but it's not fast enough to be effective - bye the time the shot is taken the subject is out of focus.

this is based on my experience using Servo AF mode on the 300 d taking photos of my 6 year old sister running. downhilling mountain bikes will be even harder to catch with the 300D.

I wish I had got the 10D (had the 300D for 2 1/2 months now).

[RoB_m]

i'd be doing probably 80-90% landscape and 20-10% biking, and only biking.

i'm used to having a non auto focusing SLR. i have an A-1, so i don't really mind what auto focus speeds these cameras have. i wouldn't be shooting races where it's start to finish as fast as you can with no stopping on the trail. freeriding is a little different. it's more stunt oriented. i'll be able to pick my vantage point, get the right focus ahead of time and be able to tell the guy when i'm ready for him to drop off a rocky ledge or ladder bridge. all the riders i'd be photographing are my friends so i wouldn't have any trouble asking them to do the stunt again since they like to do them multiple times anyway. the buffer and fps of the 10D just seem like a novelty to me. i don't feel they are important enough for my uses.

well i guess i've kind of convinced myself. i was really set on getting the 10D before this. too bad i won't actually have a DSLR for a looong time still.

[vfilby]

Hey rob,

If this is something that you are saving up for I wouldn't worry to much about what is available right now. I am sure new things will be released by the time that you buy yours. Who knows, maybe the 10D will cheap enough by that time.

Vince

[RoB_m]

true, and that's what i'm hoping for ;]

[mttmrphy]

ep·i·ste·mic ( P ) Pronunciation Key (p-stmk)
adj.
Of, relating to, or involving knowledge; cognitive.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
[From Greek epistm, knowledge. See epistemology.]
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
epi·stemi·cal·ly adv.


Had to look that one up... :lol:

[yallcome]

It's just like buynig a guitar. You can spend all kinds of bucks working your way to the top, which you know will happen in the end, or you can start out very near the top. Save some money in the long run and get the 10d (or the MkII)

Bless your little pea-pickin' heart.

m2

[vfilby]

ep·i·ste·mic ( P ) Pronunciation Key (p-stmk)
adj.
Of, relating to, or involving knowledge; cognitive.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
[From Greek epistm, knowledge. See epistemology.]
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
epi·stemi·cal·ly adv.

Had to look that one up... :lol:

Believe me that isn't an indicator of my vocabulary, just something that stuck in my head from the handful of philosophy courses that I took.

Vince

[RoB_m]

It's just like buynig a guitar. You can spend all kinds of bucks working your way to the top, which you know will happen in the end, or you can start out very near the top. Save some money in the long run and get the 10d (or the MkII)

Bless your little pea-pickin' heart.

m2

pea-pickin' eh?
:?:

[ijohnson]

Wow! I am glad that people are just waking up. I can't imagine this set of comments getting a very nice welcoming. Mr Rik, you have a lot to learn, and if you don't, you have a lot to learn about how to communicate it. I wont comment about whether I think that set of statements is right or disgustingly, blatently, and obscenely wrong. I will keep my comments to myself. Please, in the future, keep comments like this to a strictly 300D forum unless you are specifically trying to get people to yell at you.

No, I think I will keep to my own council on such matters and continue to speak my mind honestly. I find it interesting that you took no offense at the blatantly offensive and insulting comments to which I was responding. Speaks volumes about you.

Oopsie. That comment was intended for Kabz. I got the names mixed up. You have it right. Please forgive me.

[arumdevil]

did somone say guitar? yes! come buy my guitars, pace your order today!!


NOW!

[vfilby]

I started to auction items off to afford my new hobby. I am looking at enough guitar equipment to buy a mkII but I can't do it. The turntable will have to go first... or the kitty... here kitty kitty kitty.


Vince

[RikWriter]

Wow! I am glad that people are just waking up. I can't imagine this set of comments getting a very nice welcoming. Mr Rik, you have a lot to learn, and if you don't, you have a lot to learn about how to communicate it. I wont comment about whether I think that set of statements is right or disgustingly, blatently, and obscenely wrong. I will keep my comments to myself. Please, in the future, keep comments like this to a strictly 300D forum unless you are specifically trying to get people to yell at you.

No, I think I will keep to my own council on such matters and continue to speak my mind honestly. I find it interesting that you took no offense at the blatantly offensive and insulting comments to which I was responding. Speaks volumes about you.

Oopsie. That comment was intended for Kabz. I got the names mixed up. You have it right. Please forgive me.

No problem, if you will accept my apology for snapping at you. I should have asked if maybe you had just misattributed the quote before I allowed myself to get irritated. You have my sincerest apologies.

[vfilby]

Alright, group hug everyone! ;-)

Vince

[ijohnson]

Wow! I am glad that people are just waking up. I can't imagine this set of comments getting a very nice welcoming. Mr Rik, you have a lot to learn, and if you don't, you have a lot to learn about how to communicate it. I wont comment about whether I think that set of statements is right or disgustingly, blatently, and obscenely wrong. I will keep my comments to myself. Please, in the future, keep comments like this to a strictly 300D forum unless you are specifically trying to get people to yell at you.

No, I think I will keep to my own council on such matters and continue to speak my mind honestly. I find it interesting that you took no offense at the blatantly offensive and insulting comments to which I was responding. Speaks volumes about you.



Oopsie. That comment was intended for Kabz. I got the names mixed up. You have it right. Please forgive me.

No problem, if you will accept my apology for snapping at you. I should have asked if maybe you had just misattributed the quote before I allowed myself to get irritated. You have my sincerest apologies.

Cool. Let's go back to laughing at that other guy.

[roanjohn]

Hey!! What about the 1D MKII?? I heard a lot of good things about it. I think its better than the 10D. :?

Ro1

:twisted:

[Big_B]

It's just like buynig a guitar. You can spend all kinds of bucks working your way to the top, which you know will happen in the end, or you can start out very near the top. Save some money in the long run and get the 10d (or the MkII)

Bless your little pea-pickin' heart.

m2

I agree. My strategy is to buy a camera that does more then I want it to do. I aim to grow into the camera rather then out of it. I reckon that this strategy will save you money in the long run.

[Alexandre Gabriel]

It's just like buynig a guitar. You can spend all kinds of bucks working your way to the top, which you know will happen in the end, or you can start out very near the top. Save some money in the long run and get the 10d (or the MkII)


Meanwhile, use your old faithful G2 :twisted:

I disagree (partially). I think it's better to go for good "L"enses in the long run. Almost any digital body may fit you needs. If it doesn't happen, simply upgrade. You'll lose less than a L glass price in the process.

[KartGirlsMom]

I've been debating that same question since the 300D came out. (I'm not a poor college student, but the poor mom of two college students :) ) And as I'm not planning on having the camera generate much income, it was a very real question if the extra $ is worth it. Wednesday I bought the 10D. I am so thrilled with it. I think I will be able to figure out all the bells and whistles. The cat is getting really mad at me taking so many pictures of her. I can't wait to take it out to the kart track this weekend.

[rraman]

So after all this lengthy discussion, is it fair to say that for a landscape photographer (those not needing higher fps/buffer), D300 with the hacky firmware installed, is almost as good as 10D?

[nosquare2003]

So after all this lengthy discussion, is it fair to say that for a landscape photographer (those not needing higher fps/buffer), D300 with the hacky firmware installed, is almost as good as 10D?

I would say yes. It is more important to get a good tripod (with remote shutter), good lenses, filters, and/or meter IMHO.

[Kabz]

You know what.....
I kind of regret my comment......

This was coming straight from a hyped up user of a new 300D...
I realized soon after, that as a "hobbyist" it really is possible to outgrow a camera that quick.
Heh....I posted spontaneously..
Hopefully no harm done, I apologize.

Of course there are people who know so much more than I do. I didn't want to come off as an "obnoxious know-it-all"
The reason I'm at this site is to learn! Because I myself have just started becoming really serious in photography.
So I hope I didn't go off too much on anyone here...I just felt the stupid urge to stand up for a (dare I say) lesser camera.
Either way...thanks for understanding....I won't do that crap again :wink:

Kabz

[Jon]

I don't think anyone here considers the DR a "lesser camera", any more than we consider the 10D "lesser than" a 1DMk II. They were just advising RoB_m for his particular situation the 10D would be better than the DR. They're different cameras, even with the firmware hack on the DR. In a semi-pro environment, the 10D is a better choice than a DR because of the features the hack doesn't supply. For a hobbyist just moving to DSLR from a digital (or film) P&S, the DR offers a camera he can be comfortable with and, especially through the firmware hack, one he can grow with as he becomes more comfortable with the type.

[Brianbar]

In this situation, I would go for the 10D, you won't be disappointed, where you could be if you purchase the 300D.

Brian
10D
17-40 L
28-105 USN
75-300 USM
420EX

[SYS]

I read everyone's comments on this thread topic with a great deal of interest because I, too, am thinking of purchasing either DR or D10 very soon. I'm sort of leaning towards D10, but one issue that I'm worried about -- and no one has mentioned this on this thread -- is some of user reviews mentioning D10's tendency of "Error 99." Since I'll be using my old EOS 650 lenses on D10 (or DR), I'm wondering if I'll be dealing more with technical problems than with photography with the new purchase? Is my worry baseless??

[RikWriter]

I read everyone's comments on this thread topic with a great deal of interest because I, too, am thinking of purchasing either DR or D10 very soon. I'm sort of leaning towards D10, but one issue that I'm worried about -- and no one has mentioned this on this thread -- is some of user reviews mentioning D10's tendency of "Error 99." Since I'll be using my old EOS 650 lenses on D10 (or DR), I'm wondering if I'll be dealing more with technical problems than with photography with the new purchase? Is my worry baseless??

I've yet to get an Error 99 with my 10D through about 3,000 actuations with various lenses.

[Cadenza]

how about the D60 v. 300D for landscape photography?

i just read the 'D60 why not' thread is it's pretty persuasive.

I think the D60 is a very compromised camera, which is
why its reign on the shelves was so brief -- Canon quickly
replaced it with 10D.

For someone who is going to do action photography
(bikes, etc.) you should get a 10D if you can't afford MkII.
10D has better AF modes selection than 300D, and 10D
is a lot sturdier too. You could even bang and drop 10D
a few times, it doesn't even wince.

By the time you graduate, prices for 10D used should be
even lower. Oh, and did I mention 10D is black? :-)