PDA

View Full Version : Things nobody tells you when buying a digital camera


marcell
29th of September 2007 (Sat), 06:58
First of all: this is not a camera test. I don't have enough technical knowledge to do so. I only share the experiences I made when buying the Nikon d200. I know I am in a canon forum. But the issues that arise when buying and using a digital camera are the same with any camera. Since if I knew then what I know now, I probably wouldn't have bought it. Maybe I had bought the 5D. Maybe none at all... Anyways, this text might give you some questions that you could ask before investing in equipement.


The initial situation
I hate digitally made images. Conversely I favour the good old analog photography. Why? Yeah the good old war of photo-worlds. Eventually the best possible analog material has more subjective density and body. A digital image looks flat. An analog one has the feel of coming closer to three dimensions. I have a couple of different cameras for different uses. Mostly I use the Nikon FM2 with a 35mm 2.8 and a 50mm 1.4 lense. Slide-film, Kodak E100VS and Fuji Provia 400x. Fixed focus lenses. Good vario lenses will never beat good fixed focus ones. The quality differs in the largest possible aperture that allows to photograph with less light, the dark corners that are visible with less good wide angle lenses and the overall sharpness of the image. Plus these lenses have no auto focus just as the camera hasn't. So I have to focus manually. If you practice a lot and have a bright and large view finder then you are quicker when focusing manual. Plus you control the focus, you can easily be out of focus which can be a goal sometimes. Here again less technology means more quality. Usually the best auto focus lenses will not beat the best manual ones.
I do photography professionally but it doesn't make the largest portion of my income. I do freelance-reportage (you can see some work at www.fischka.com (http://www.fischka.com/e_index.html) and occasionally documentation, commercials, portraits etc. I don't like weddings since the pictures are more important to the clients then what they usually are willing to pay. So if you want to work above average you have to invest more energy than you usually get back. For photo journalists and commercial photographers who do 4 weddings and a funeral a week, there is no question on IF they should go digital but WITH WHAT equipment.

I would never do a freelance reportage digital. But clients are often not willing to pay the extra quality any more and don't want to wait three days to delivery. The quality of scans from labs in my town varies to the extent that I can't really rely on them. At least not in the price range I am willing to pay. So with buying digital gear I would loose some percentage in quality. But most clients don't really see the difference, I will be faster, I will have more control, due to the lack of film and processing, the jobs will cost less. So I either keep more of the sum or I can offer a job cheaper. Which might be a good thing in a more and more competitve environment.

The best
Ok, I wasn't really serious. But I at least wanted to give it a try. The Leica M8. The digital successor of analog M6 and M7. The legends. The best 35mm photo camera existing. Even though the digital M8 was having some technical troubles, it was supposed to be a real Leica. So I went to a local Leica Shop. I spoke to the really nice vendor. I said I in my naivety that I hoped quality would somehow come close to my usual. He asked my about my equipment. I told him. He drew a sad face and said: Well, you should come back in September. But September 2012. Maybe digital will be equal then." Anyways the Leica M8 was nice. Fine handling and an overall decent image quality. It wasn't as good as slide film, but obviousy as good as it gets with digital. But the body alone cost more than 4.000 Euro.

The choice
So when you want to have the cheapest possible professional level you can either go for the Nikon D200 (D300 now) or the Canon 5D which is app. 30% more expensive (about 2.000 Euro). When you have lenses and flashes and what ever stuff made for your analog Nikon, then you won't go for Canon. At least thats what I thought. I really haven't looked into the Canon stuff but I should have. Even some Nikon-fans admitted that Canon is overall better with digital matters contrary to analog mode. So I went to my local dealer, had a quick look at the D200 and bought it, knowing that I wouldn't want to afford a better Nikon.I also invested in an extra handgrip. Like that the D200 feels like a real camera. A bit heavy but very steady.

The if's and but's

The Focal crop
The D200 and the D300 have the 1.5 crop. A 35mm lense will be 50mm. A 50mm lens will be 75mm. I surely knew that before. So I knew that the widest lense that is available to me is a 20mm. I use it rarely but I do. That makes 32mm in digital. When I need more wide angle, than I have to buy a new lense. More cost. The Canon 5D has a full frame chip btw.

Focus
When you have new autofocus lenses then everything is fine. Autofocus is fast enough for most uses, exposure works quite well. But don't you dare trying to use manual focus. The viewfinder is small and dark. When I have all the time in the world and can make mulitple exposure than I am able to hit the right focus manually. There is a little dot in the viewfinder that tells you, when you have focused sharp. Works sometimes. But definitely not always. So this turned me from seeing to half blind. Told you, most of my lenses don't have autofocus. So if I really want to work professionally, I have to buy new lenses. With probably less quality.

The Flash
I thought, cool, I can use the SB26 and have TTL for the first time. The FM2 only supports manual flashing. I prefer available light photography but being able to use a flash would broaden my scope. Then I found out that even though the SB26 is a good flash, it doesn't do TTL with a digital camera. For this I need a newer flash. So again more expenses. Tell you, I was pretty pissed when I found that out. By now I could have invested in a Canon.

The files
No matter what I did. If I want the camera to save the images in jpg, the quality was mediocre at best. I read in various forums that this is normal. If you want to get the most out of your images, you MUST use RAW-format. Even when only using the conversion tool from photoshop cs2 in auto mode, the images look twice as sharp and colorful than in native jpg. So photoshop cs2 can't read native D200-Raws. I have to use a conversion tool, make some more files that can be converted to tiff and manipulated. That means it takes quite some time before you even come close to manipulating your files. Plus RAW files are quite large. Storage becomes an issue. Not if you do the occasional holiday snapshot stuff, but surely when you do a job a day with 200 images for each job. Storage and Backup comes quite costly after a while. So when working with RAW it is clear that you need lots of Flash-Cards, app. four times more space than without. In that case I'd advise to buy several smaller storage cards instead of a single big one. Storage cards tend to cease functioning after a while. It is better to loose 50 pictures and not 500. Plus with storage cards it pays of to buy better (and thus more expensive) ones. They just hold longer.
The manipulation
The pro of a file from a digital camera: you can do much more photoshop manipulation than with a analog file. It is more flat, it originally has less colors, has more detail. There is quite a lot you can polish there. And with manipulation I don't mean adding or deleting or distorting information in the picture but only color correction and sharpening. Best book ever for this: Professional Photoshop from Margulies.
The con: I do have to do more work in Photoshop than with an analogous photo. If I get my analog films scanned decently or use my own film scanner (Nikon Coolscan 5000 ED - a phantastic gadget) then I pretty much have a decent file. I might employ some little color correction (by setting white and black points) and my usual sharpening (mostly usm: 30-30-10 plus 150-5-3). But thats it. Takes 30 seconds per image. I usually work three to four times as long with a file from the digital camera. When it comes to cost, what I have saved with film stock and development I at least partly loose out to spending more time with photoshop.
The archive
One more thing to bear in mind. When I do film then I always have the neg or the slide. A scan is just a copy. And even though I don't want to loose it and do it again I can still treat it as a copy. With digital the file is my original. If it is lost, then it's gone forever. Therefore I have to take care double with backups. Plus with film I only keep the files I absolutely need, with digital, I rather keep more. Just to be sure. And I keep it in the biggest size possible while with analog I keep the file as I need it now.With digital I keep the manipulated file plus the original. So I end up with at least four times the space on hard disc and dvd-roms than before. Even though space becomes cheaper and cheaper, I have more cost.
Eventually I ended up charging the same amount of money to a client, no matter if digital or analog. I just label it different. Before it was material plus scan. Now it is image manipulation and storage. I know I am hyper critical here, but when it comes to calculating offers, it is important.
As said in the beginning, this is not a try to keep anyone away from digital stuff. There are just a couple of issues to deal with, when thinking about buying digital equipment. Issues that might not be visible beforehand but I at least would have liked to know before putting 1.800 Euro on the table.

Checklist

So next time I would check out this (besides the usual buying criteria such as price and quality):

* test at least two different systems (such as Nikon and Canon)
* check if all your lenses work nicely
* think about what a 1.5 focal crop means for your work
* see if the viewfinder is good enough to focus manually
* does your flash do TTL with the digi cam
* how does the RAW export work
* is the workflow from Camarafile to TIFF easy and fast
* what other equipment will I need (such as additional batteries, storage cards, handgrip)




truly yours, Marcell
ps: see my stuff at www.fischka.com (http://www.fischka.com/e_index.html)

FlexiPack
29th of September 2007 (Sat), 08:04
That's a really interesting comparison.

Having only really taking up photography as a serious hobby in the digital age, I didn't have all the pitfalls and considerations of switching from film. Although i did have a tamron telephoto lens left over from my old canon 35mm which is what swung me into canon digital territory - and so glad i did now!

thanks for the write up

Riverlander
29th of September 2007 (Sat), 08:43
Thanks for the write up -- it helped me to understand a bit more about people from the dark side..........

lungdoc
29th of September 2007 (Sat), 09:38
I think, to be polite, that you are just wrong about a lot of what you said. You seem to have come at this from a negative viewpoint from the start - if you can't have a Leica you're disappointed with what you got. You neglect to do the finances correctly - for the price of film in a year or two a 5D is easily affordable. You also appear to be a pro - the cost of ANY DSLR should be relatively irrelevant - it's a tool to make an income, you should be able to justify the cost of the tools. Compared with your time and reputation and all the other costs of a business even a 1Ds Mark III should be affordable. Take a look at it from a business perspective - what's your annual income (not asking for it here...just to think of it) versus operating and capital costs? How much is camera equipment as a share of the capital cost, what's the depreciation, what are the cost savings and income changes?

I think you're just wrong about image quality - many experts have compared FF digital favorably with medium format. Do you really think the professional market would have turned off film to the extent it did if quality was really worse with digital? HAve you looked at ISO 1600 from film vs digital? I suspect some of your issues come down to postprocessing skills or choices. Slide film the lab and choice of film has made those choices for you.

Autofocus isn't perfect, it is better than manual for most situations (if it wasn't don't you think most would use manual?). If you want a great viewfinder you should have gone FF with 5D or 1Ds - or at least 1.3x.

The stuff about backup is not comprehensible to me - storage is cheap, ask the people in New Orleans about their analog originals. With digital you can keep RAW files forever; easy to make off site or online copies. Even if you kept the original RAWS on a CF card at the price of those these days it's still probably cheaper than film! You also act like analog storage is free - hardly.

Curtis N
29th of September 2007 (Sat), 10:02
Marcell, welcome to POTN!

I agree with your assessment that perhaps you should have done a bit more research before purchase. That said, I'll offer just a few points:

1) Yes, sometimes the process from capture file to print can get a bit laborious. But don't forget you've removed the most time-consuming and expensive step: scanning the negative!

2) There is a lot of RAW conversion software out there. Some of it is pretty cheap. Some of it can really make your work quicker. Give Adobe Lightroom a try. Free for 30 days. There is a learning curve.

3) None of the manufacturer's film TTL flash units work with digital. There are technical reasons why they had to design new flash metering systems. I was also a bit miffed to find out my film flash wouldn't work with my new digital camera. Some folks will say the digital flash metering systems aren't quite up to par with the film TTL systems, but they do give you a few options you never had with film.

In time I think you'll grow to love the digital process like most of us have. And when you factor in the economics of buying film, processing and scanning, you'll feel better about your decision.

Wilt
29th of September 2007 (Sat), 10:05
People have compared 35mm to medium format ONLY in the aspect of resolution. Yet medium format is far more than that one characteristic. I have shown medium format slides projected to the same size as 35mm slides at photo workshops, and the tonality and color rendition of larger formats has a noticeable impact that causes the audience to Oooh and Aaah when the medium format slide is shown.

I will agree that the OP has some flawed logic, but he also makes some good points.

BTW, Mark, I pulled out a photo of a famous rock star that I took during an interview with that person, from 1966 and printed it a few years ago. Do you want to speculate if you can access that digital data you shot yesterday, in 2047? There is digital data that I have from the mid-80's that I can neither read from the media it was written on, nor find an application program that can correctly interpret the file...and this is one of the fears I have about digital data longevity.

lungdoc
29th of September 2007 (Sat), 10:24
I wasn't trying to open the medium format vs digital can of worms, just to point out that if people have compared FF to MF film then the notion that digital 35mm is inferior to 35mm film is pretty tenuous. Let's not forget he appears to be a pro - once something is good enough for publication in magazines (two page spreads) I'm not sure from a Pro perspective (fine art perhaps excepted) that "better" really would matter.

Digital data storage is an issue and has some drawbacks as you indicate; however some conscientious file keeping should take care of that. I am willing to predict I'll be able to read jpg in 2047; RAW perhaps not unless I keep the software - though easy enough to batch process them into another format somewhere between now and then. Adobe will claim DNG as the solution; not sold yet. I think the volume of data involved will in fact make this stuff readable - there will be a market for the software/converters since millions will be in the same boat. Compare that with some wordprocessing or whatever files from the 1980's - just not enough people to make it worth getting read. I wouldn't trust the disk/CD/DVD hardware - I think repaetedly copying stuff onto current technology hard drives is the most future-proof. Whole task relatively easy if we throw out some of the crap and keep the same number of good images we kept in film days.

René Damkot
29th of September 2007 (Sat), 10:36
3) None of the manufacturer's film TTL flash units work with digital.

Generaly, you're right, but not entirely true: The old Fuji FinePix S1 worked fine with an SB24 in TTL mode... (I think the S3 did as well. S5 is the first Fuji with iTTL AFAIK)

Wilt
29th of September 2007 (Sat), 10:41
I wasn't trying to open the medium format vs digital can of worms, just to point out that if people have compared FF to MF film then the notion that digital 35mm is inferior to 35mm film is pretty tenuous..

I did not even consider purchase of digital SLR until I felt the quality was comparable to 35mm film...the 8MP dSLR was that threshold for me.


Not to debate you, but merely to have a discussion, to open the eyes of those who read this thread...

Digital data storage is an issue and has some drawbacks as you indicate; however some conscientious file keeping should take care of that..RAW perhaps not unless I keep the software .

Unfortunately being merely 'conscientous' is not enough. I have software that ran in Windows but does not run in Windows XP! And now there is Vista [struggling to hold back the vomit]

I think repaetedly copying stuff onto current technology hard drives is the most future-proof.

More foolproof than writeable CD/DVD. But when you have Terabytes of data, transferring to the current media of choice is burdensome...imagine taking data from a harddrive when its controller is not compatible with the buss connector in the PC. Yes, things like USB help with that, but that assumes USB connectors are even on the latest PC (parallel port connectors are history, less than 20 years after the parallel port printer was launched, kids don't know what they are!) I am currently using external USB harddrives, but I am watching for the time when USB disappears for the next better connector, and then I have to try to move data (assuming I have a PC with both USB connector and its replacement!)

there will be a market for the software/converters since millions will be in the same boat.
Oh, you mean like the software/convertors to be able to read Word 1.0 and Excel 1.0 files that businesses have (not!)

APG-Angus
29th of September 2007 (Sat), 11:53
First, I too found the OP's viewpoint interesting. But the more I read the more my head started to hurt. As a hobbyist I felt how could I disagree with a pro, I still feel that way about discussing image quality and cost vs. profit. So I will only speak to initial cost vs. a daily expense and the storage issue.

Cost, for a hobby digital is a big initial outlay for decent equipment but then there’s really nothing more to spend until you want large high quality prints. When I was doing astrophotography using 35mm film I had a hard time spending all that money on lab fees and then finding out what I did wrong, plus the time I had to wait meant correcting mistakes took a lot longer.

Storage, I think being a 15+ year computer geek gave me an advantage. This meant that costs here were software only, hardware both old and new were already in place. I currently have 9,000+ RAW image files, 20,000+ JPEGS and maybe 1,000+ TIF 16-bit files. First, the images are stored on a drive that is NOT my operating system drive so that a Windows crash will not affect them. Second I back up all these images to a second computer, again not on that system’s OS drive. Third, I archive all of the “keepers” Both RAW and TIF to DVD’s, since this is the only part that is not automated I sometimes neglect this for a month or so which then makes it take longer, I should do this at time of import but… Cost here is just 2 250GB hard drives and the DVD’s (50 so far). I also rebuild my computers every year (wipe hard drive and reload OS, stress-test hardware). I currently use Lightroom and CS2 and Nero to burn DVD’s.

What digital allowed me to do this week I do not believe one could do with even the best film setup, again total amateur hobbyist here. I went on a field trip with my kids took pictures, some on request of teachers, about 200 or so. Got home at 2pm by 4pm I had them processed and pruned to 120 images and by 8pm had a new website up for teachers and parents and full size jpegs uploaded by 10. Besides the initial 2 hours of PP the rest was merely starting batch processes and letting the pc do its thing it barely put a dent in my normal routine.

So, yes I’m just a hobbyist but without digital equipment I would not be able to enjoy photography the way that I do. Now professionals may see this as a bad thing but not too worry, I’m not competing with you, in fact I am sure I will hire one if and when I have to pay for a wedding.

rhys
29th of September 2007 (Sat), 21:20
I come from the exact same background as the OP. I much prefer my Nikon FM to any digital cameras. If film were cheaper and as easy to process as digital files then I'd have stayed with film. Digital scores with:
1. Quick results - no need for Polaroids.
2. Images easily transferable via email.
3. Less storage space needed - a box of DVDs will hold as much as a filing cabinet.

The downsides of digital:
1. Cameras more fragile.
2. Digital sensor a PITA to clean - we never had to clean unless we had pellicle mirrors before.
3. AF is great when it works. It has made great strides but certainly isn't perfect yet. The lack of a manual backup solution is appalling.
4. Funky batteries! Film cameras used the DL1/3N or 2CR5 or AA batteries. Digital uses all these funky batteries that vary between manufacturer and worse - between models too. It's a recipe for disaster!

adam8080
30th of September 2007 (Sun), 01:47
I think you are fighting a loosing battle here on a digital photography message board. Also, since when is 1.5 times 20 equal 32?

Glenn NK
30th of September 2007 (Sun), 03:08
I'm going to ramble:

I shot film (slides mostly and some colour negatives) from 1962 until last September.

I don't shoot as much as some - 10,000 shots in exactly one year - anybody want to calculate the cost of this in slides or negatives? Quite a few years ago, I was charging my company $1.00 per picture - today's prices would buy a couple of pretty good computers with a few HDDs in each one.;)

In the world of writing, I suppose there are some authors that are still banging away on a typewriter, but I would humbly suggest that the successful ones are using a word processor (some likely even use word recognition software and just dictate the story line).

I read Wilt's post (Cream of the Crop); he makes a good point about accessing digital files in the future. However this also now applies to analog slides being scanned into digital form for easier manipulation, storage, printing, and transferring from place to place.

Four wild horses tied to my legs and arms couldn't get me back to film again. But then I'm not the sentimental type that longs for the past. Perhaps it's my engineering background and experience - if we don't keep up to date, we're finished.


Too bad that the OP learned about the D200 the hard way.;)

DocFrankenstein
30th of September 2007 (Sun), 10:29
Bravo. You're summed it up really nicely.

Digital body, expensive AF lenses which aren't that good most of the time, crappy viewfinders, backup/storage issues, color calibration, photoshop costs. Only the pros can afford it... it seems.

And this is why I shoot BW film with a rangefinder now. Silver halides don't crash!