Do I even need a printer? (Costs question)

[DocFrankenstein]

I am thinking about getting a printer. Considering the costs, it looks like photolab printing is cheaper.

4*6 at blacks would cost me 50 cents. 95-98% of my prints will be 4*6

Ink usage alone is around 30-50 cents per print. Then about 20 cents for the paper and the cost of the printer... :shock:

Colors are better at the photolab and I don't really care about/need them.

Do my estimates seem accurate? What are your thoughts on the issue?

[Jesper]

Photolab printing is cheaper than printing yourself. So don't get a printer if you want to print cheaper! Getting your own printer is only interesting if you want to keep control over the complete process, from taking the photo until the final end product, the print.

Colors are not necessarily better at the photolab. The problem is that most photolabs will tweak the contrast and colors so that you don't have exact control over the contrast and colors of the print.

[Scottes]

I agree. I have a nice color printer and I get almost all of my prints done at a photo lab. I print occasionally, and I print some tests - like checking sharpening before I print an 11x17 at the photolab for $15. It does give me the ability to print something if I want it *now* but that's rare.

One thing I hate is the occasional ink smudge or blob at home - the photolab would print it again for free, but that mistake costs me at home.

[tommykjensen]

In my opinion You only need own printer if You just have to be able to print at any time of the day and have the results as quickly as possble.

All the prints I have is from a photolab 500 meters from where I live and when they are open I can get the prints in just 1 hour.

[DocFrankenstein]

What about the fact that they charge 10 bucks for 8*10 ?

Does it make sense for printing it yourself? It does seem cheaper than the lab if I print 100+ photos overall.

[John_T]

I think the first thing is to ask yourself "Do I really want a printer there at my elbow so that I can play to my heart's content?" and leave the cost out of it.

The next question is, is it worth getting a mediocre printer that's not really going to give me what I want to see, just cause it's cheap.

The last question is, do I want to spring for a really good printer for my own personal private very own pleasure.

I suspect it is the last question, otherwise you wouldn't be asking. :lol:

[DocFrankenstein]

I suspect it is the last question, otherwise you wouldn't be asking.

Unfortunately for my wallet, you are right :cry:

[John_T]

Well, in your shoes I'd say screw it and do it. 8)

On the other hand, you can calculate what you are currently "saving" and put that amount aside in real money until you get the whole chunk. :wink:

[Cadenza]

Over the years, I've gotten excellent
results -- superior to 1-hour photo prints,
in any case -- out of my Epson 1280 at a
very reasonable cost. I buy 6-pack ink
sets from ink4art, for about $36 ($6 each,
yielding 35-45 A4 sized prints per cartridge
on average).

I use mostly Epson's Glossy Photo Paper,
an excellent everyday use paper for prints
and proofs. This paper is available at a
bargain price at Costco, where a pack of
120 sheets sells for $19.99. (Compare this
to $34.99 per 100 sheets B&H charges for
the very same paper, #SO41141)

So I figure I'm getting an impressive looking
8.5 x 11 print for a mere 40-50 cents each.
Given the qualitative control and selectivity
with which printing at home allows you, this
becomes affordable enough for you to
experiment freely.

Of course, if I were to buy OEM inks, the
price would go up; but I see no reason to
do so, since I've obtained the very same
results with the 3rd party brand ink I use,
and have had no major clogs in my 1280
after 2 years of use.

[DocFrankenstein]

Over the years, I've gotten excellent
results -- superior to 1-hour photo prints,
in any case -- out of my Epson 1280 at a
very reasonable cost. I buy 6-pack ink
sets from ink4art, for about $36 ($6 each,
yielding 35-45 A4 sized prints per cartridge
on average).
Do you mean that you get 40 (approx) prints out of the whole six pack or just out of one cartridge, meaning that for 36 bucks worth of paint you can print 6*40=240 A4 photo prints? :shock:

I use mostly Epson's Glossy Photo Paper,
an excellent everyday use paper for prints
and proofs. This paper is available at a
bargain price at Costco, where a pack of
120 sheets sells for $19.99. (Compare this
to $34.99 per 100 sheets B&H charges for
the very same paper, #SO41141)
That's a very good price.

Of course, if I were to buy OEM inks, the
price would go up; but I see no reason to
do so, since I've obtained the very same
results with the 3rd party brand ink I use,
and have had no major clogs in my 1280
after 2 years of use.
From what you describe this may be the printer I want to have. Since I do this non professinonally and costs are a major factor...

How well do the prints handle light? Is it gonna be ok if I put them in a frame?

What's OEM inks? How much are they?

[4walls]

I get my 4x6 prints at Costco for $0.24 each.
They charge $1.99 for a 8x12 and $4.99 for
a 12x18 print.

I don't think you can beat those prices. I ask
them to make no adjustments to the prints so
that I get whatever I have "Photoshopped".

Works for me.

[DocFrankenstein]

I get my 4x6 prints at Costco for $0.24 each.
They charge $1.99 for a 8x12 and $4.99 for
a 12x18 print.

I don't think you can beat those prices. I ask
them to make no adjustments to the prints so
that I get whatever I have "Photoshopped".

Works for me.
Cool. It is hard to beat those prices. What printer do they use?

[Cadenza]

Do you mean that you get 40 (approx) prints out of the whole six pack or just out of one cartridge, meaning that for 36 bucks worth of paint you can print 6*40=240 A4 photo prints? :shock:


Sorry, I should have been clearer. It is more like half that,
because you have to put in 2 cartridges: one black ink, and
one color. So a black + color pair (i.e. 2 cartridges) will yield
you about 40 or so prints, and $36 worth of paint will
will yield about 120 A4 sized prints. Still very good. The
black ink tank lasts somewhat longer than color tank.


From what you describe this may be the printer I want to have. Since I do this non professinonally and costs are a major factor...

How well do the prints handle light? Is it gonna be ok if I put them in a frame?

What's OEM inks? How much are they?

OEM means Epson brand inks in this case.

Yes, I think the Epson 1280 is a great printer to have.
For a while, it was the king of the hill, was the printer
choice of even for professionals. As a bonus, you can
print up to 13" x 44" sized prints. It has a huge user
base, so 3rd party inks and tech support for 1280 will
always be around.

There are more advanced printers now (2200, etc.), but
in Epson's case they cost a lot more to operate because
they don't work properly with third party inks (clogs, hue
shifts, etc. I think greedy Epson figured out now how to
make printers which will only work well with their own
inks). Also, the inks are more expensive and you have
to buy 6 or 7 individual colors in the newer printers.

As far as longevity of prints I'm not sure. None has faded
on me yet, but I figured at 40 cents a print, I'll just
do a fresh reprint when that time comes.

One more thing, I've only been successful getting good
prints using Epson paper. Not even Kodak paper gives
you good results.

[DocFrankenstein]

I just took a look at the costco website. They allow you to download the color profiles and seem quite serious. Esp for those prices. :?

One more thing, I've only been successful getting good
prints using Epson paper. Not even Kodak paper gives
you good results.
If it's 120 sheets for 20 bucks, it's ok. Epson Glossy Photo paper... It is thick, right? Not just glossy?

It is more like half that,
because you have to put in 2 cartridges: one black ink, and
one color. So a black + color pair (i.e. 2 cartridges) will yield
you about 40 or so prints, and $36 worth of paint will
will yield about 120 A4 sized prints. Still very good.
Daaaam... It doesn't have separate color inks. :( Bummer. If I get the canon 9900... then I wouldn't throw the ink away. :?

Too complicated. I'm gonna read up on it for a few more months.

Thank you very much for the replies. I will go with costco for now, since it seems to approximately match the printer prices and provides the color profiles.

[4walls]

I get my 4x6 prints at Costco for $0.24 each.
They charge $1.99 for a 8x12 and $4.99 for
a 12x18 print.

I don't think you can beat those prices. I ask
them to make no adjustments to the prints so
that I get whatever I have "Photoshopped".

Works for me.
Cool. It is hard to beat those prices. What printer do they use?

The local Costco here uses the Noritsu 3101 (I think).


I don't mess with profiles, just save my files in sRGB colorspace and they

turn out very close to what my roughly calibrated monitor shows me.

[marieD]

Hey 4walls,

I am going to start taking my pics to costco. But I have a few questions, and am glad that you brought Costco up.

1st off do you resize the image so that you will have control over what is cut off? and what do you resize to?

2nd of all, can you explain the sRGb coloespace? how exactly do you save it that way.

[robertwgross]

If you want to drive your absolute print cost down, use Costco.

If you want the maximum of convenience, use your own printer.

When I am whipping through a few hundred digital images shot that day, the last thing that I want to do is to go to Costco to print any of them.

I'll select the good ones and print them on my venerable old Epson 1270. I figure Epson ink costs me about a dollar per square foot, just for round numbers.

I prefer to have complete control of the creative project.

---Bob Gross---

[4walls]

Hey 4walls,

I am going to start taking my pics to costco. But I have a few questions, and am glad that you brought Costco up.

1st off do you resize the image so that you will have control over what is cut off? and what do you resize to?

2nd of all, can you explain the sRGb coloespace? how exactly do you save it that way.

1. I edit all the pics I take to Costco. I crop each one in Photoshop to 4x6
(or whatever size I am going to make the print i.e. 5x7). I absolutely
NEVER resample the pictures. Crop only for aspect ratio and leave the
upsampling to the machine at Costco...I think it does a way better job
than Photoshop or any of the upsampling actions that I have downloaded
can do. The card reader machine at my Costco does not allow you to do
any cropping or red-eye reductions like some Kodak kiosks.


2. In Photoshop I work in the sRGB colorspace all the time, so the
pictures are saved in that mode. If you work in Adobe RGB, then you
need to use IMAGE > MODE > CONVERT TO PROFILE and select sRGB.
This will be best for the Costco machine (in most cases I think).


If you are not using Photoshop, then it will depend on your camera...if
you have a 300D or a 10D, etc. I think you can select on the camera
what mode you want to shoot in. I think most point and shoot cameras
will save the pictures in the sRGB colorspace so there would be nothing to
worry about.

The easiest way is to crop a couple of pics with your image editing
program then take them to Costco and print them out. If the colors are
OK, then you are good to go. If not, then you need to convert them to a
different colorspace so the prints look proper.


ALWAYS calibrate your monitor prior to making color changes to your
pics. If the monitor is not calibrated you are going to screw up the colors
in the picture. Even the Adobe Gamma correction tool works OK (at least
for me). I get pics really close to how they look on my screen.


Good luck with the prints, let us know how it turns out.

[slin100]

If you print at Costco and you want complete control over color management, then head on over to Dry Creek Photo (www.drycreekphoto.com). They have a database of custom profiles for Noritsu and Frontier minilab printers found at Costco and a few other places. Download the profile for the printer located nearest to you. Follow the instructions (http://drycreekphoto.com/Frontier/using_printer_profiles.htm) at Dry Creek Photo on how to use the profile. In short, you would use Photoshop to convert your image to the profile. Important: Do not embed the profile into the converted image. Frontier and Noritsu printers do not understand embedded profiles.

They also provide tips on resizing. If it's a Frontier, its native resolution is 300 dpi. Noritsus uses either 400 dpi or 320 dpi, depending on the model.

If you are worried about auto cropping by the printers, you'll also find suggestions on how to resize your canvas to counteract this "feature".