Using Gels Full Body

[drisley]

I think I might invest in some coloured gels to use with my fitness/bodybuilding pics.

I shoot on a 9ft white seamless, usually with a configuration as shown below.
If I'm doing full body shots, what is the best way to get colour on the bg, but not on the model, except maybe for the rim? Is this something I have to play with to get right? Any opinions would be helpful.

Type of setup I usually use:
http://images2.fotop.net/albums2/isp/miscellaneous/IMG_6574.jpg


Results I get with this all white setup:
http://images2.fotop.net/albums2/isp/miscellaneous/IMG_6760.jpg

[milleker]

Great shot and nice setup pic. I would usually recommend gray paper but since you are shooting complete full body shots, white may be the way to go. Gray takes gels so much nicer with a nice saturated coloring, can be left unlit to go low-key or nuked with light for high-key. And I love working with high-key. So, sticking with white..

Here is a link shared by shooterman in another thread which should help you see what you'll be working with if you try to gel white.
http://home.insight.rr.com/alienbeegels/

[shooterman]

What size octobox is that? I'm interested in doing full body. Also is that a B800 with the octo?

thanks, Randy

[TMR Design]

Hi drisley,

The best way to do shots like that using a gel to color the background and not the subject it to feather (or shotgun) it in from the side or from above using a boom. I do this all the time and it works great. You clearly have enough space to do this without contaminating the subject area's lighting. Obviously this is only good for backgrounds that are not full length because there's no way to light the background and area underneath the subject without affecting the subject area. Gradations from color to white are possible but not all that pleasing.

To have even color behind and under your subject you're best bet is colored seamless or muslin backgrounds, with seamless being the least expensive way to have several colors ready to go.

Here's a quick sample using gels feathered in from the side.

[TMR Design]

What size octobox is that? I'm interested in doing full body. Also is that a B800 with the octo?

thanks, Randy

That looks like a 60" Photek Softlighter II and not an octabox.

[suyenfung]

how can you possibly color the seam and floor?

[TMR Design]

That's what I was saying in my post. You're going to either want to do 2/3 body shots with the color behind the subject or play with gradations from color to white.

Again, the colored seamless my be the better way to go if you want color behind and underneath the subject.

[shooterman]

That looks like a 60" Photek Softlighter II and not an octabox.LOL, I need some new glasses. I don't know why I saw that as an octobox, LOL. Thanks for setting me straight Robert.

[Amorous]

Robert,

Very nice background using gel. Can you share us a bit more detail how you got very pleasing background with two smooth colors? Did you use multiple lights?

[drisley]

What would happen if you used a black bg, and had a light with a red gel as the main/only light source, lighting the model and bg? I'm sure I saw such a thing posted here before, but I can't find the thread!!

Thanks for all the work guys/TMR. It's really appreciated!

[TMR Design]

Robert,

Very nice background using gel. Can you share us a bit more detail how you got very pleasing background with two smooth colors? Did you use multiple lights?

Hi Amorous,

I like colored gels but found solid colors a bit boring. I wanted to create backgrounds that had a similar look to handpainted muslins but I didn't want to buy many backgrouds.

So what I did was to take the Rosco Roscolux Swatchbook ($.01 at B&H) and create 12" x' 12" sheets using various colors and density of colors.

You can play all day with power level and position of the gels and come up with some really nice colors, and combining the gels can also produce some nice effects.

I just spent about 30 minutes creating these samples. I didn't really put much thought into it and I like the way many of them turned out. The background light is about 24 inches from the back wall and just out of frame on the left (camera left) side. I founnd that feathering the light in from the side gave me better gradations than if I was lighting the background head-on.

[TMR Design]

What would happen if you used a black bg, and had a light with a red gel as the main/only light source, lighting the model and bg? I'm sure I saw such a thing posted here before, but I can't find the thread!!

Thanks for all the work guys/TMR. It's really appreciated!

Hi drisley,

I've seen it done but I'm not a big fan of hitting the subject with a gel on the main light. If you are adjusting exposure for the subject you're not going to be hitting a black background with enough light to do more than slightly color it, if at all.

I think the way to go is to light the black background from a bove using a boom and let the gradation naturally transition to the black and it will give you a nice smooth transition from color back to black and then black underneath the subject. Whatever color background you use that is how I would do it and this way you don't have to worry about the color at the sweep or on the floor.

[waves]

Robert, awesome job!! what color bg are you using white, black or gray ? also do you think this would work with a small grouping of people besides individuals ?

[TMR Design]

Hey waves,

Thanks man. For these samples I am using black seamless. The effects are more dramatic with better saturation on the black than on gray or white.

This can definitely work well across a 9 or 10 foot background for group shots but you may have to use 2 lights. I'm sure the feathering will still give you nice gradations but I'm not sure it will have the same look. I haven't done that myself.

[drisley]

Thanks TMR, AWESOME WORK!
I think you are totally right about the use for full body. I dont have a boom, but I might be able to rig something!
Thanks again!

[TMR Design]

Hi drisley,

I have a boom so I'll give this a try sometime this evening and post results.

[TMR Design]

Hey there drisley,

I just did a quick setup and some simple tests that lead me to believe it will work as I thought. Image #1 shows the setup and you can see the gradation. The seamless at the bottom and then on the floor is getting near black and 3 or more feet in front of that was black. I checked in Photoshop and it was showing the slightest hint of red with no green or blue. The height and angle wll have to be adjusted carefully. As you can see (it's hard with the optimized jpg) there is a very thin line of red going across the sweep (I saw it but didn't attempt to correct it) that you'd have to watch for and adjust if you didn't want it there.

Image #2 shows a cropped area with no subject just to see the gradation. Image #3 just shows the gradation behind what could be a half body shot and there's a nice transition from red to black.

I've seen a good deal of your work and the bodybuilder shots you've posted. I think you could refine this idea to work really well in your shots.

BTW.. even though I now have a great boom I'll often use my cheap DIY boom arm that you see. I just used a Superclamp attached the the vertical riser of a lightstand and then replaced the stud in the Superclamp with a piece of 3/4" copper pipe. As long as the pipe is kept short (about 14" or 15") and you don't have too much weight hanging on it it works fine. I should also mention that I have sandbags on the leg braces of the stand. Without them it would never be stable enough to stand.

[PacAce]

Hi Amorous,

I like colored gels but found solid colors a bit boring. I wanted to create backgrounds that had a similar look to handpainted muslins but I didn't want to buy many backgrouds.

So what I did was to take the Rosco Roscolux Swatchbook ($.01 at B&H) and create 12" x' 12" sheets using various colors and density of colors.

You can play all day with power level and position of the gels and come up with some really nice colors, and combining the gels can also produce some nice effects.

I just spent about 30 minutes creating these samples. I didn't really put much thought into it and I like the way many of them turned out. The background light is about 24 inches from the back wall and just out of frame on the left (camera left) side. I founnd that feathering the light in from the side gave me better gradations than if I was lighting the background head-on.

Great examples, Robert. And they're on black background, too? I would never have guessed. Thanks for sharing. :)

[Titus213]

Hi Amorous,

I like colored gels but found solid colors a bit boring. I wanted to create backgrounds that had a similar look to handpainted muslins but I didn't want to buy many backgrouds.

So what I did was to take the Rosco Roscolux Swatchbook ($.01 at B&H) and create 12" x' 12" sheets using various colors and density of colors.

You can play all day with power level and position of the gels and come up with some really nice colors, and combining the gels can also produce some nice effects.

I just spent about 30 minutes creating these samples. I didn't really put much thought into it and I like the way many of them turned out. The background light is about 24 inches from the back wall and just out of frame on the left (camera left) side. I founnd that feathering the light in from the side gave me better gradations than if I was lighting the background head-on.

Robert,
Fascinating thread and exactly what I want to try. Your examples with the boom and black BG are excellent, thanks.

Question on the above post of yours - when you say you created 12x12 sheets, did you use multiple colors together? I don't quite understand how you did this. Or perhaps I just don't understand what you did?

[Amorous]

Robert,
Fascinating thread and exactly what I want to try. Your examples with the boom and black BG are excellent, thanks.

Question on the above post of yours - when you say you created 12x12 sheets, did you use multiple colors together? I don't quite understand how you did this. Or perhaps I just don't understand what you did?
Robert,

I too like to know more detail if you don't mind. I've been wanting to have the same background effect like yours for a long time, but never been successful. Yours look great! And thank you for sharing us.

By the way, I just checked those swatches, and they are out of stock. I'll get those as soon as they have it in stock.

[TMR Design]

Great examples, Robert. And they're on black background, too? I would never have guessed. Thanks for sharing. :)

My pleasure Leo. :D

[TMR Design]

Robert,
Fascinating thread and exactly what I want to try. Your examples with the boom and black BG are excellent, thanks.

Question on the above post of yours - when you say you created 12x12 sheets, did you use multiple colors together? I don't quite understand how you did this. Or perhaps I just don't understand what you did?

Robert,

I too like to know more detail if you don't mind. I've been wanting to have the same background effect like yours for a long time, but never been successful. Yours look great! And thank you for sharing us.

By the way, I just checked those swatches, and they are out of stock. I'll get those as soon as they have it in stock.


To make the gel sheets I literally took the swatchbook, laid out the gels in color family and then started playing around, mixing colors and densities or colors. You can see the 1 sheet that I used the various diffusion gels.

I already had a roll of Scotch tape so the cost of the 4 sheets was 1 cent (about $2 if you add the tape..lol).

There was no real method to the madness and I have another swatchbook to create some different combinations. For me this is the next best thing to having multiple muslin backgrounds.

[Titus213]

Thanks Robert - that's the way I read your post but .... That's pretty neat. Looks like I'll have to order another swatch book. Or two.

[Amorous]

Robert, That's genious and thanks a lot! So you literally tape the gel sheets using Scotch tape and make a 12" x 12" sheet, and attach it to the front of your BG light. How did you come up with 12" x 12"? I'm using 430EX as BG light along with AB800 as main and 580EX as fill/trigger light. Any suggestion making the gel sheet for 430EX?

[TMR Design]

Hi Amorous,

I have a set of Bogen Vivid Color gels and they are 12" x 12". I don't use them in gel holders so it really doesn't matter how big they are. I just made them the same size so I could stack them.

I like them large because with 1 gel sheet I can move it closer to one side or corner and change the effect without having to change the sheet. I created all those samples above just using the 4 sheets pictured.

If you're just going to clamp them to a boom arm or filter holder then I suggest making them larger than you need so you can play.

[drisley]

OMG! Thanks TMR! That's so awesome of you to do this for me!
I WISH I had a boom arm, and perhaps another light. I DO have an arm for my lightdisc/reflector, maybe I could modify.

Then, I could use my 60" photek as main, and maybe the abr800 w/moon unit as cross lighting/kicker? Another light would be sweet, but as it stands, I really want to keep it to just 3. I also have a couple vivitar flashes I could use somehow, but I hate waiting for them to recycle. Thoughts?

Btw, may I ask what sort of ratios you used for the back vs main?
Oh, I just thought of something... I wonder if I could just mount the light BEHIND the paper and shoot thru it (with the light angled toward the floor to give the same gradation).

ThANKS AGAIN!

[TMR Design]

Hi drisley,

My pleasure. You know I love this stuff :D

Generally speaking, when I'm using these gels I adjust my back light to give me the standard exposure, which is the same as the taking aperture (18% reflectivity), -1 stop (9% reflectivity) or +1 (36% reflectivity). Occasionally I'll go to -2 or +2, and for the really deep, dark ones I'll use -3.

[RichNY]

Robert- You really should have been born a Goyum; I'm sure you would have loved the whole egg coloring thing :)

[Amorous]

Couple of more questions for you Robert.

You use a strobe, but I use 430EX for the BG light. Since my light source is small, I think making a 12" x 12" sheet will be too big. I do like the idea of making it big and move around to get different effect though. How far do you place the gel sheet from the strobe? I think I will have to place if farther since I have a smaller light source. What do you think?
Where did you get that attractive mannequin? :) I have a 3 1/2 and 5 /12 years old to use as my models, but they don't always cooperate.Thank you again.

[drisley]

Sweet! Thanks again!

Hi drisley,

My pleasure. You know I love this stuff :D

Generally speaking, when I'm using these gels I adjust my back light to give me the standard exposure, which is the same as the taking aperture (18% reflectivity), -1 stop (9% reflectivity) or +1 (36% reflectivity). Occasionally I'll go to -2 or +2, and for the really deep, dark ones I'll use -3.

[Swaffs]

This is excellent stuff, thanks for all contributors.
I've just got my first strobes & softboxes and a black background.
I can't wait to play, only had one go before.

now, where did I put my sample pack??

[TMR Design]

Couple of more questions for you Robert.

You use a strobe, but I use 430EX for the BG light. Since my light source is small, I think making a 12" x 12" sheet will be too big. I do like the idea of making it big and move around to get different effect though. How far do you place the gel sheet from the strobe? I think I will have to place if farther since I have a smaller light source. What do you think?
Where did you get that attractive mannequin? :) I have a 3 1/2 and 5 /12 years old to use as my models, but they don't always cooperate.Thank you again.

Hi Amorous,

I set up the gel sheet about 1 inch in front of the reflector on the B800 strobe, allowing some room for it to breathe and not overheat. You're going to have to play to see what gives you the best results with a speedlite. If you're using the flash in a studio setup you might try firing the flash into a reflector of some sort to concentrate and control the light a bit. I'm not sure the distance from flash to gel is as important as the distance from flash to the background. Obviously the further the flash is from the background the greater coverage but that also uses more power. With the speedlite you also have the zoom setting to control the spread of light.

As far as the mannequin is concerned, I had posted this (http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?t=254023&highlight=manequin)a while ago and if you look through the thread you'll find the mannequin I bought and the ebay store that sells them. Originally I got one of the wigs they sold but later paid a little more for something better looking and then had a friend of mine come over to give it a haircut. I found the generic wigs to be somewhat 'ratty' and very flat. Because they use synthetics and not real hair it was very difficult to style or do much with, and I figured that since I was going to be spending countless hours in the studio with 'her' I wanted something a little more pleasant to look at. :D

[Amorous]

Thank you again Robert. I'll experiment and try it out.

[snedigity]

I am so going in the garage and trying that tonight.

[Redfish]

You can request the free swatchbook here:

http://www.rosco.com/us/filters/swatchBookRequest.asp?type=roscolux

[michaelsink]

Hi Amorous,

I like colored gels but found solid colors a bit boring. I wanted to create backgrounds that had a similar look to handpainted muslins but I didn't want to buy many backgrouds.

So what I did was to take the Rosco Roscolux Swatchbook ($.01 at B&H) and create 12" x' 12" sheets using various colors and density of colors.

You can play all day with power level and position of the gels and come up with some really nice colors, and combining the gels can also produce some nice effects.

I just spent about 30 minutes creating these samples. I didn't really put much thought into it and I like the way many of them turned out. The background light is about 24 inches from the back wall and just out of frame on the left (camera left) side. I founnd that feathering the light in from the side gave me better gradations than if I was lighting the background head-on.

Hmmm... TMR, can we see an image of your "pasted-up" mosaic of gels? BTW really nice sample shots

[TMR Design]

Hi Michael,

I'm guess you didn't see that I had already posted this image earlier in the thread. These are the 4 gels sheets I made and use so far.

http://photography-on-the.net/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=211612&stc=1&d=1191721264

[michaelsink]

TMR - thanks, I was reading this at work (don't tell anyone!) and I don't think the images had completely loaded yet... Thanks for the repost, very cool idea!

[freebird]

This thread is a xlent read.
Thanks to all who contributed.

Chuck