karate studio

[CindyS]

Hi guys...a question for the experts out there..

My best friend volunteered me (nice of her huh!) to take pictures of the kids in her son's karate class. The owner is looking for someone to take individual pictures of the kids posed..like kids on Little league teams etc. Then if the parents want to buy the pictures, they can.

PANIC! First, I have never sold anything. Second, My indoor shots are my biggest problem. I havn't been in the studio yet to see what kind of lighting it has but was hoping someone could give me some good tips for indoor shots, what are good settings to stick with etc.

Also, I just started using a cable release and it dosn't shoot on all shots. Can you not use a cable release on certain settings? Sometimes when it dosn't shoot I can shoot manualy, but then the shot is blurry of course.



Sorry to ask such newbie questions...

[DocFrankenstein]

The owner is looking for someone to take individual pictures of the kids posed..like kids on Little league teams etc. Then if the parents want to buy the pictures, they can.
The first selfish question that arises:

If the owner is selling the pics, you should be getting something out of it. Are you?

To help you, we need more information:

1) what body/camera do you have?
2) what lenses?
3) are you gonna take action shots too, or just posed kids?
4) how far are you gonna be from the action?
5) would you consider buying more equipment/accessories and your max budget for that.

If you answer those 5 questions, we'll be able to help you better

[CindyS]

ok..thanks for your response..

1. Canon EOS 300D Digital Rebel

2. 18-55mm that came with it and a 70-300mm

3. I want to try both, action posed.

4. not sure

5. not sure here either, would depend on costs etc..kinda broke atm.

as far as getting paid for the pictures..I darn sure better..

Sorry..i know i'm not giving you much information to go on.

[cmM]

you will deffinitely need a faster lens than your 18-55. I suggest at least a 50mm f/1.8, even better an 85mm f/1.8. As for your cable release, I don't think there's need to use it. You might wanna bump the iso a little higher if you don't have a lot of lighting available. I suppose the kids are gonna wear white kimonos (that's what they're called, right? :) ), so be very carefull with exposure. Check the histogram often.

As for selling the prints, keep the copyright, and sell prints to whoever wants to buy. Don't give your copyrights away though.

Good luck, and post some pix.

[CindyS]

Thanks for the great information..

As for the karate uniforms I think they are actually black.
When you say keep the copyright..do you mean the actual original print? And I should keep my name on the picture?

[DocFrankenstein]

It would be strange if everybody wore black kimonos. What school of karate is it? Kobe Tai? :LOL:

Even if black is the choice of your school, there's a good chance that other schools are gonna be wearing white.

[Bruce Foreman]

I suppose the kids are gonna wear white kimonos (that's what they're called, right? :) ), so be very carefull with exposure. Check the histogram often.


The uniforms in Japanese based martial arts are called "Gi" (G is pronounced hard.) Kimono are long wrap garments kinda like a loose robe. Remember Alghren mused samurai were ill tempered because somebody made them wear dresses (The Last Samura).

The "Dojo" (school or academy) manager/owner will assist in the posing if he works like a friend of mine who operates a Tae Kwon Do school does here. He will likely put each kid in a pose that suits his/her skill level and may even allow them to pose with traditional weapons (Sai, Bo, Nunchaku, etc.).

Typical arrangement is to provide the owner/Dojo with a composite (Similar to fraternity/Sorority composites) with each student and each instructor represented on a 16x20 or 20x24 copy and sales to the parents are where the photographer benefits.

I would recommend Cindy sit down with him and say "Look, never done this before. How do we do it?"

[Bruce Foreman]

Hi guys...a question for the experts out there..

My best friend volunteered me (nice of her huh!) to take pictures of the kids in her son's karate class. The owner is looking for someone to take individual pictures of the kids posed..like kids on Little league teams etc. Then if the parents want to buy the pictures, they can.

Nice friend!


PANIC! First, I have never sold anything. Second, My indoor shots are my biggest problem. I havn't been in the studio yet to see what kind of lighting it has but was hoping someone could give me some good tips for indoor shots, what are good settings to stick with etc.


Visit the facility. Take some quick test shots with existing lighing and see what it does. This kind of thing is best done with portable 2 or 3 head lighting kit but can be done with existing light if there is enough. Do avoid on camera flash or the little on board "pop up".

For test start with setting ISO at 400 but use 800 or 1600 if necessary. Consider setting white balance to whatever light source is used in the facility. Or set custom white balance as described in the manual.

Last, plan to use a sturdy tripod to not induce camera movement as a problem. The owner/instructor staff should assist in "action" poses so the kid finishes the action and "holds" the final punch/kick position so you can get it. (You can check the LCD panel and tell if you got a good one or not.)


Also, I just started using a cable release and it dosn't shoot on all shots. Can you not use a cable release on certain settings? Sometimes when it dosn't shoot I can shoot manualy, but then the shot is blurry of course.


If the cable release doesn't work reliably don't fool with it. A sturdy tripod will help.


Sorry to ask such newbie questions...

If you don't ask...You're not going to get answers.

Bruce Foreman

[slejhamer]

This kind of thing is best done with portable 2 or 3 head lighting kit ...Last, plan to use a sturdy tripod to not induce camera movement as a problem. The owner/instructor staff should assist in "action" poses so the kid finishes the action and "holds" the final punch/kick position so you can get it. (You can check the LCD panel and tell if you got a good one or not.)

I agree with Bruce's advice. The posed shots will look best with a good lighting arrangement. Also, if you have the lights and tripod, you likely won't need the higher ISO settings for these shots. Avoid the on-camera flash if possible. In a pinch, a speedlight on a flash bracket (with a connecting cord) might work ok.

However, in my experience, the action shots will look best using as much ambient light as possible and just a touch of fill flash. (The on-camera flash may be sufficient for this.) I regularly use the 50mm f1.8 lens wide open (or stopped down to no smaller than f2.8) and ISO 800 (our dojo has horrible lighting). This will get me shutter speeds of around 1/125s to 1/200s, depending on how much daylight is still coming through the windows. I usually set exposure manually to get a histogram that is biased to the right; this helps to offset the ISO noise.

My preference is to shoot in RAW and set white balance later. This is because the light shifts as I move around the dojo; the central portion is lit by fluorescent, but the corners have some have tungsten creeping in and one side is closer to the windows so filtered daylight may also come into the mix. My WB at one corner of the room may be completely different from what I get at the other corner! (Did I mention the dojo has horrible lighting? :lol: )

The focal length you use will depend on how much room you have to work with and where you will be. At my dojo, which is fairly large, I find the 50mm to be about right (or even a little too long) for moving around the floor and getting close to the action without getting kicked. 85mm would be much too long for me, but if I were seated off to the side of the floor it might work. My 10D's 1.6x crop factor has a big impact here - on a full frame camera, the 50mm might be too short.

The color of the gis will vary with the fighting style and the school. Most of my fellow students where white, but some of the BJJ fighters wear blue and some of the Combat Jiu Jitsu students wear black. The Muay Thai fighters wear gym shorts and t-shirts!

One reason to consider manual exposure is that your camera meter will try to overexpose a black gi and underexpose a white! It's like wedding photography (black tux, white dress, etc.) and you may have to play with EC and FEC to get it right.

You can see some of my MA shots here:
http://www.pbase.com/m_schlesinger/gallery__martial_arts_favorites

Best of luck!

http://www.pbase.com/image/25560400.jpg

[Scotty G]

Wow! Some topic! I have some experience on both sides of this subject. I am currently studying GoJu Ryu karate while the wife and son (11yrs old) study TaeKwonDo. I have done both action and still shots of TKD. Please don't be offended but..... My best advice for you at this time is to politely refuse this job.

Action shots during a class or testing are very difficult to do well. (Nice job slejhammer!) The problem is getting enough light to freeze the action. Almost impossible without flash. Also the light in the dojo will be a major issue. The place I have shot is lit with the compact flourescent bulbs. And to make matters worse, they shut them off and turn them back on... and they take about 5 minutes to come to full briteness again... arghhhh.

If you decide to go ahead anyway. Then I would do it this way. For still shots, offer to do some informal posed portraits for some of the instructors or senior students. Work with only a few poeple and see how this turns out. You will need lighting and some type of backdrop. For action shots attend a testing day or class and use flash with a bracket to stop the action. In either case you will get a ton of experaince and maybe a few good shots. BUT the expectation level will be low. Remember, you are only there to test out the environment and shoot for your own knowledge.

This will let you know if you want to go through the "class picture day" that this person is asking you to do.

The most important thing to remember is that IF YOU DO THIS... you will be stepping into the realm of professional photographer. People will EXPECT professional results. This is not an easy thing. test the waters before jumping in.

Good Luck, Let us know how it turns out.

Scotty

[CindyS]

wow! Thanks for all the great advise!!

Scotty, my friend said she maid it clear that I wasn't a pro and I was still "LEARNING"...When I go talk to him, I'm going to make that very clear. If I do this and get good shots, I will charge very little (mostly to cover costs) just to be able to learn and for the expierence. I plan on going in and talking to him (he also know's my son too so that helps) and asking him if like you all suggest I can come practice for a few days first.

So, basically I'm going to try and find a 50mm f1/8 lens..so far no luck.
I have a flash but it's a cheapo..what is a good affordable flash that you all recommend?? I'm going to get a flash bracket and something for backdrop ( a white sheet perhaps?)..shoot in manual mode expierementing with different settings and practice practice practice. Maybe I'll get some ok shots. Does that sound about right?

You all are great! Guess that's why I have spent hours here reading and my housework has gone to crap!

great shot there slejhamer~!

[Vegas Poboy]

Cindy I do alot of action shots in different sports some with flash some without. The way I would set things up for this school is as follows

1. go to the school and see if the school has a logo on the wall if so that makes a great backdrop for the schools advertisement by it self. If you must use a backdrop a cheap way out is use a fleece blue blanket

2. Take tape with you and mark the floor to set up the distance to check DOF & lighting a white card balance would also help since most schools has bad lighting for photos.

3. On camera flash is not the best but will work if you have the $$ go with the 550ex if not purchase athe 420. I only recommend these to since you said your new to this a the camera & flash will talk to each other. If these is kids that your going to be shooting a fast lens is not greatly needed due to the flash will stop the action. Children sports is very easy when using flash. Since you have a flash bracket try setting the flash on a lightstick or tripod off to the side. The canon sync cord is pretty flexable.

4. The 18-55 zoom may work great due to you will be able to stay in one spot and be able to adjust to each student without having to worry about the flash and agian the flash should stop the action I would set the f/stop @ 8 that most likely will be the sharpest focal point of the lens. Under expose by 1/2 a stop you can always bring out that detail in PS or elements but you can't replace it. Mainly if they have white uniforms.

5. Do the simple action shots, punches & sidekicks most students can do those with no or very little problems and they can be held in place with little effort.

Last of all don't sell yourself to cheap once you start charging a low price people expect it all the time & if you go a good enough job business will grow from there. Donate to the school a good 8x10 or 8x12 if the school is a little on the cheap side. But come up with a basic package to charge everyone. Make it real simple so you don't lose track & then if they want more go peace by peace until you come up with a good system of prices. Here is an example of a package I offer to little league parents.

[u]Package B
1-8x10 Team Photo
2-5x7 Individual Photo
16 Wallets
$25.00

I have two packages above this and another one below but this is just an example. This is & can be very profitable but make it work for you don't give away your work make the work buy you better gear. fit your prices to where you get your prints done I price things cost times three for this type of work. rounding up or down.

I know this is alot of info but I've been doing this for a while. Most likely you won't make everyone happy but the majority is what counts

good luck

[CindyS]

Great Great info! Which program do you use to print your packages?

[Lamplight]

Also, I just started using a cable release and it dosn't shoot on all shots. Can you not use a cable release on certain settings? Sometimes when it dosn't shoot I can shoot manualy, but then the shot is blurry of course.

Sometimes I'll be taking a shot using the cable release and it will stop working. This usually happens after I have switched to/from a vertical shot to/from a horizontal. At first I was concerned, but I soon noticed that the remote had simply gotten unplugged from the camera. :lol: It slips out just enough to stop working, but not enough to be very noticeable. I don't know if that is what's happening in your situation, but I figure it's best to check easy stuff first. :D When this happens to me, I get a feeling not unlike that of leaving the lens cap on. :lol:

[Vegas Poboy]

Great Great info! Which program do you use to print your packages?

I do not sell inkjet prints, I use CS to crop & edit. I have print profiles for Costco & Sams Club & another local printer. I prefer Sams paper over Costco. Currently looking into a online printer, Most likely going to be printroom.

Most of the time I use a 4x6 or 8x10 crop and go from there. Let the printer work for you. They can resize anything.

I use MS Word & designed my own print order forms & contracts make sure you get a photo release for your portfolio.

Purchased Plain white envelopes & had a self inking stamp made with my Business name, email & phone. This helps people get back with you for more sales.

Have a assistant write down the file number by each name & shoot more than one shot. Pre setup a makeup day for the ones who keep closing their eyes & the ones who could not be there.

If you enjoy doing this & can see a profit without stressing to much look into taking a couple of classes. I do this as a side job and it's slowly building but there is alot of phonies on the market so take it slow, make notes & don't be afraid to check out other photgraphers work.